[pressman]

Nice one bab (and markent). I appreciate you need to add 28% buyers premium but its an interesting snapshot of current values

[brookvale]

Need to add vat too

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2015 16:37:28 GMT 1 pressman said:

Nice one bab (and markent). I appreciate you need to add 28% buyers premium but its an interesting snapshot of current values

Thanks. Of course need to consider extra for buyer's premium, tax, and artist resale right. 

[brookvale]

How much of the hammer price does the seller get?

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2015 17:02:29 GMT 1 brookvale said:

How much of the hammer price does the seller get?

Depends on the auction house but most auction houses give the seller the exact hammer price.

[Hubble Bubble]

I'm guessing the post hammer costs will be the same as Bonhams. If this is the case then add 34% to the hammer price to calculate the final price paid by the purchaser to acquire the piece. This includes VAT which may or may not be reclaimable depending on the purchaser's situation.

[Hubble Bubble]

Dec 2, 2015 17:36:53 GMT 1 @bab said:

Dec 2, 2015 17:02:29 GMT 1 brookvale said:

How much of the hammer price does the seller get?

Depends on the auction house but most auction houses give the seller the exact hammer price.

I thought most auction houses charged a selling commission unless negotiated?

[Loobaz]

Dec 2, 2015 17:56:22 GMT 1 Hubble Bubble said:

Dec 2, 2015 17:36:53 GMT 1 @bab said:

Depends on the auction house but most auction houses give the seller the exact hammer price.

I thought most auction houses charged a selling commission unless negotiated?

Which ones charge no vendor commission, bab?

From what I can gather, with Dreaweatts; Vendor Fees are 15%, plus 1.5% Loss/Damage charge, making approximate sellers totals in this sale:

Flying Copper unsigned £3,130
Gangsta Rat unsigned £4,175
GWB unsigned £14,195
Grannies unsigned £2,340
Happy Choppers signed £8,770
HMV stamped £3,170
Laugh Now Unsigned £4,175
Love Rat signed £12,525
Morons unsigned £2,505
Pulp Fiction unsigned £4,010
Toxic Mary unsigned £2,255
Weston super mare unsigned £3,760

There is also a one off listing fee, but that could be as low as £10 (more if a catalogue is produced), but here I imagine it's incidental.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2015 17:56:22 GMT 1 Hubble Bubble said:

Dec 2, 2015 17:36:53 GMT 1 @bab said:

Depends on the auction house but most auction houses give the seller the exact hammer price.

I thought most auction houses charged a selling commission unless negotiated?

Sorry I didn't realize I said "most" that was incorrect. But one that I know of that has 0% commission is artnet auctions. They let you keep the hammer price. That's 100% accurate.

[brookvale]

Surely if someone wanted the sell an unsigned flying copper on this forum, it would have been snapped up at 4K? Seller isn't getting much for those Banksy's!

[Loobaz]

Dec 2, 2015 18:18:52 GMT 1 @bab said:

Dec 2, 2015 17:56:22 GMT 1 Hubble Bubble said:

I thought most auction houses charged a selling commission unless negotiated?

Sorry I didn't realize I said "most" that was incorrect. But one that I know of that has 0% commission is artnet auctions. They let you keep the hammer price. That's 100% accurate.

The way I understood it; Artnet only charges 0% selling commission on lots that hammer over $10,000, which would only have been 3 prints from this lot.

The majority of the lots here would have incurred 8% sellers fees.  (Maybe 6% in a couple of cases)

[alk416]

Dec 2, 2015 18:05:17 GMT 1 Loobaz said:

Dec 2, 2015 17:56:22 GMT 1 Hubble Bubble said:

I thought most auction houses charged a selling commission unless negotiated?

Which ones charge no vendor commission, bab?

From what I can gather, with Dreaweatts; Vendor Fees are 15%, plus 1.5% Loss/Damage charge, making approximate sellers totals in this sale:

Flying Copper unsigned £3,130
Gangsta Rat unsigned £4,175
GWB unsigned £14,195
Grannies unsigned £2,340
Happy Choppers signed £8,770
HMV stamped £3,170
Laugh Now Unsigned £4,175
Love Rat signed £12,525
Morons unsigned £2,505
Pulp Fiction unsigned £4,010
Toxic Mary unsigned £2,255
Weston super mare unsigned £3,760

There is also a one off listing fee, but that could be as low as £10 (more if a catalogue is produced), but here I imagine it's incidental.

Thats depressing... Im sure anyone would snap buy the whole lot at these prices

[alk416]

Doesnt make sense when they could easily get more on the bay

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2015 18:57:17 GMT 1 alk416 said:

Doesnt make sense when they could easily get more on the bay

Auction house = no mess, hammer falls its sold.

Ebay = messers / non payers / moaners / postage / paypal.

[murphy1972]

i think you'll find your prices are incorrect

girl with balloon hammered at £17k and the love rate hammered at £15k

283
£3750
£4650
284
£5000
£6200
285
£17000
£21080
286
£2800
£3472
287
£10500
£13020
288
£3700
£4588
289
£5000

[Loobaz]

Dec 2, 2015 19:32:50 GMT 1 murphy1972 said:

i think you'll find your prices are incorrect

girl with balloon hammered at £17k and the love rate hammered at £15k

Babs gave Hammer prices (e.g. Girl With Balloon - £17k and LR - £15k), then I applied the Vendor's Fees to show what Sellers took from that.

Were any of Babs' other hammer prices incorrect?

[alk416]

Dec 2, 2015 19:32:17 GMT 1 @nordicstar said:

Dec 2, 2015 19:16:35 GMT 1 LonelyFarmer said:

Auction house = no mess, hammer falls its sold.

Ebay = messers / non payers / moaners / postage / paypal.

I like auction houses coz they use silk paper and that bubble wrap plastic thing, and fancy teip, ebayers tend to stick pubis hair on the for fifth time used tube, covered old adresses with brown teip, geuwgh.

I like ebay bc i can order whatever I want and then dispute the charge

[Harveyn]

Dec 2, 2015 20:04:15 GMT 1 Loobaz said:

Dec 2, 2015 19:32:50 GMT 1 murphy1972 said:

i think you'll find your prices are incorrect

girl with balloon hammered at £17k and the love rate hammered at £15k

Babs gave Hammer prices (e.g. Girl With Balloon - £17k and LR - £15k), then I applied the Vendor's Fees to show what Sellers took from that.

Were any of Babs' other hammer prices incorrect?

It's the age old debate. Your view on the result and any subsequent quote as to the market value based on the result will depend on whether you are a buyer or seller/holder at that time.

My view is simple.

The fact is a buyer bought at the hammer price plus premium, was happy to do so (excluding the occasional auction fever result) and therefore another potential buyer might also be happy to pay that price. Note I said might.

The fact is also true that the seller achieved the hammer fee less negotiated costs. What cannot be stated is that the seller was happy with the result or that any other seller would be happy to sell at the hammer less costs price.

[Loobaz]

Dec 2, 2015 20:27:17 GMT 1 Harveyn said:

Dec 2, 2015 20:04:15 GMT 1 Loobaz said:

Babs gave Hammer prices (e.g. Girl With Balloon - £17k and LR - £15k), then I applied the Vendor's Fees to show what Sellers took from that.

Were any of Babs' other hammer prices incorrect?

It's the age old debate. Your view on the result and any subsequent quote as to the market value based on the result will depend on whether you are a buyer or seller/holder at that time.

My view is simple.

The fact is a buyer bought at the hammer price plus premium, was happy to do so (excluding the occasional auction fever result) and therefore another potential buyer might also be happy to pay that price. Note I said might.

The fact is also true that the seller achieved the hammer fee less negotiated costs. What cannot be stated is that the seller was happy with the result or that any other seller would be happy to sell at the hammer less costs price.

Yep, completely agree with you there, N.  I was simply replying to brookvale's question:

Dec 2, 2015 16:02:29 GMT brookvale said:
How much of the hammer price does the seller get?

[Harveyn]

Sorry Loobaz I was working off my mobile and meant to hit reply as opposed to referencing your comment. 

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2015 20:15:49 GMT 1 alk416 said:

Dec 2, 2015 19:32:17 GMT 1 @nordicstar said:

I like auction houses coz they use silk paper and that bubble wrap plastic thing, and fancy teip, ebayers tend to stick pubis hair on the for fifth time used tube, covered old adresses with brown teip, geuwgh.

I like ebay bc i can order whatever I want and then dispute the charge

Obviously a trustworthy person then! Please send me your details so I know

"NEVER TO FU##ING DEAL WITH YOU"

[Loobaz]

Dec 2, 2015 20:45:57 GMT 1 Harveyn said:

Sorry Loobaz I was working off my mobile and meant to hit reply as opposed to referencing your comment. 

No worries at all.

With regards to your earlier post, though - I would assume that in this case, sellers must be relatively content with the results.  Some lots achieved right in the middle of the estimates, most achieved the top end, and a couple smashed the estimates.  Sellers would have been aware going in what the estimates would leave them after fees, so I imagine they'd be happy with these results.

I agree, mind you, that whether or not other sellers would be happy at these levels is another story! 

[damo]

I sold the GWB yesterday at this auction and thought I'd comment based on that last post. I've had that print for nearly ten years and it was never bought as an investment. It was a difficult decision to sell but circumstances, etc, anyway I did call around and there was such variation in prices being offered that I concluded the only way to get a fair market price was to put it to auction. In the end it achieved more than I ever expected and was certainly more than I was offered anywhere else. That was what drove the decision to sell it that way and the auction house were, quite frankly, very keen. 

As as an aside for anyone in the same boat it's worth noting that the prices/commissions stated are market rates, as such they are quite negotiable and if it's something they are keen on (as they were with GWB) those % came down pretty quickly. I guess the reality is they knew a handful of Banksys would bring traffic in as it appeared to do. As a seller you realise that the house is taking a good cut but I don't see a huge diff with selling it to a gallery, they have to see a mark up to sell it on themselves or it's just vanity. Ideally I would have sold it to someone who would see it for what it is, and not an investment, but I think that ship sailed some time ago on these.

I was in the room and one buyer took pretty much all of the Banksys over the phone, and did some pretty aggressive bidding on a couple. I'm guessing it was a dealer. Ironically the only one they didn't bid for at all was ... Morons.

[met]

Dec 3, 2015 12:06:46 GMT 1 damo said:

I sold the GWB yesterday at this auction and thought I'd comment based on that last post. I've had that print for nearly ten years and it was never bought as an investment. It was a difficult decision to sell but circumstances, etc, anyway I did call around and there was such variation in prices being offered that I concluded the only way to get a fair market price was to put it to auction. In the end it achieved more than I ever expected and was certainly more than I was offered anywhere else. That was what drove the decision to sell it that way and the auction house were, quite frankly, very keen. 

As as an aside for anyone in the same boat it's worth noting that the prices/commissions stated are market rates, as such they are quite negotiable and if it's something they are keen on (as they were with GWB) those % came down pretty quickly. I guess the reality is they knew a handful of Banksys would bring traffic in as it appeared to do. As a seller you realise that the house is taking a good cut but I don't see a huge diff with selling it to a gallery, they have to see a mark up to sell it on themselves or it's just vanity. Ideally I would have sold it to someone who would see it for what it is, and not an investment, but I think that ship sailed some time ago on these.

I was in the room and one buyer took pretty much all of the Banksys over the phone, and did some pretty aggressive bidding on a couple. I'm guessing it was a dealer. Ironically the only one they didn't bid for at all was ... Morons.

An eloquent and informative first post, at least under this username. 

I hope to read more from you in the future.

[damo]

Thank you, that's very kind. Unfortunately I've now sold the only artistic thing I owned of any real (financial) value but will continue to, attempt, at updating my knowledge through these forums.

On plus side I now have a big hole on our bedroom wall and a little bit of cash in my pocket so am looking forward to spotting something that can give me as much pleasure as the Banksy did. My 8yr old daughter is the most gutted. She always thought that print was a picture of her, and as a result for years insisted on buying helium balloons, and would then let them go within about two minutes to replicate 'the picture'! I guess art inspires different people in different ways ;-)

[Phear Loathing]

Dec 3, 2015 13:44:45 GMT 1 damo said:

Thank you, that's very kind. Unfortunately I've now sold the only artistic thing I owned of any real (financial) value but will continue to, attempt, at updating my knowledge through these forums.

On plus side I now have a big hole on our bedroom wall and a little bit of cash in my pocket so am looking forward to spotting something that can give me as much pleasure as the Banksy did. My 8yr old daughter is the most gutted. She always thought that print was a picture of her, and as a result for years insisted on buying helium balloons, and would then let them go within about two minutes to replicate 'the picture'! I guess art inspires different people in different ways ;-)

One of the sweeter things I've read on the forum.

Halk part of that sales cash into a college fund

[mega]

Dec 2, 2015 19:32:17 GMT 1 @nordicstar said:

Hilarious....

[Viking Surfer]

Watched and bid in the auction, my bid for the Grannies was at 2600, the next bid (after the 2800) would have been 3k. Which after BP, I'd rather put the combined 4k towards a signed Banksy.

Shame as I do like Grannies.

The Morons unsigned had a 40cm crease in it too, which put me off bidding (I contacted the gallery for a condition report).

[alk416]

Damo - can you confirm the math that was done above is correct?

that your take from gwb was 14.2k?

[damo]

Not quite. I haven't had any paperwork back confirming test but I'm expecting around £15,400 on agreed terms. To be fair I've looked back at some of the notes I had in from a few galleries and I actually probably would have received a little bit more by going via them. Conversely wouldn't have the potential upside and I wouldn't have the nerves to risk eBay, so I'm still happy with route I took. 

Need to to behave myself now though as I've already treated myself to the Miss Bugs release from Thursday!