Shepard Fairey - Soup Can II

[snausages]

Jul 3, 2009 21:31:54 GMT 1 T-Bro said:

I have to stick up for Iconaclast. They have been nothing but impressive.

They are not a firm that churns out prints - they set prices of prints like many high quality photography sites. I wasn't aware that as an original print owner i could buy the set. I spoke to them after i purchased the second print and they have bent over backwards so i could get the set. I wouldnt hesitate purchasing off them again.

When they release the next print they wont stay cheap for very long - they would rather they sell out slowly. fact.

I was defending iconoclast earlier bit this looks like a huge mess, a website that didn't work (I remember their website has been hacked before and would go weeks before being fixed-how professional is that?) and now it didn't even work to checkout or clear the cache?

And while I was defending iconoclast because many print houses do tiered pricing, I'm unimpressed by how they have it set up. Only a few will be available at low prices? Most places step prices in equal amounts and equal quantity, usually in sets of 3-4. I wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4 at $250, $500 $750, $1000 - but this is ridiculous. I've never seen another instance where the sell out prices is 11 times the amount of the opening price. And then the rumor that icono was trying to buy these back for $900—I actually don't fully believe that, but if true is extremely unprofessional imo. Reminds me of some of the beautiful losers editions that they were holding back trying to sell for 2, 3, 4 thousand dollars. It's not surprising but it is almost insulting.

I kind of agree with dkla here too, this print is a hell of a lot better than usual from Obey, but it's all so watered down now. I'm really awestruck that these sold out actually and I wonder what people think who paid anywhere from $750-2750 when these appear to be going for $750 or so now. It's amazing how this kind of mania affects people and the fear of missing out causes stupid buying decisions.


But don't get me wrong, I think the world of iconoclast when it comes to curating and putting on exhibitions, but they should really rethink the business side of things and farm it out if they can't handle it and develop a more professional pricing structure.

[Winter]

Interesting to see what the original colourway goes for that's on Ebay at the moment. Not mine by the way.

[notworthit]

Jul 5, 2009 19:52:25 GMT 1 @snausages said:

Jul 3, 2009 21:31:54 GMT 1 T-Bro said:

I have to stick up for Iconaclast. They have been nothing but impressive.

They are not a firm that churns out prints - they set prices of prints like many high quality photography sites. I wasn't aware that as an original print owner i could buy the set. I spoke to them after i purchased the second print and they have bent over backwards so i could get the set. I wouldnt hesitate purchasing off them again.

When they release the next print they wont stay cheap for very long - they would rather they sell out slowly. fact.

I was defending iconoclast earlier bit this looks like a huge mess, a website that didn't work (I remember their website has been hacked before and would go weeks before being fixed-how professional is that?) and now it didn't even work to checkout or clear the cache?

And while I was defending iconoclast because many print houses do tiered pricing, I'm unimpressed by how they have it set up. Only a few will be available at low prices? Most places step prices in equal amounts and equal quantity, usually in sets of 3-4. I wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4 at $250, $500 $750, $1000 - but this is ridiculous. I've never seen another instance where the sell out prices is 11 times the amount of the opening price. And then the rumor that icono was trying to buy these back for $900—I actually don't fully believe that, but if true is extremely unprofessional imo. Reminds me of some of the beautiful losers editions that they were holding back trying to sell for 2, 3, 4 thousand dollars. It's not surprising but it is almost insulting.

I kind of agree with dkla here too, this print is a hell of a lot better than usual from Obey, but it's all so watered down now. I'm really awestruck that these sold out actually and I wonder what people think who paid anywhere from $750-2750 when these appear to be going for $750 or so now. It's amazing how this kind of mania affects people and the fear of missing out causes stupid buying decisions.


But don't get me wrong, I think the world of iconoclast when it comes to curating and putting on exhibitions, but they should really rethink the business side of things and farm it out if they can't handle it and develop a more professional pricing structure.

I'm still absolutely positive there were no prints sold at 2k+ This is so obviously a marketing ploy, and not even a clever one at that.

Shameful.

[denzil]

soup on the bay 30 min 140330254886

[Winter]

Still no show, what a joke!

[etched]

better shipped safely than hastily-

[punkwithtats]

Received mine. Seriously underwhelmed.

[sashaz]

Jul 12, 2009 7:01:35 GMT 1 punkwithtats said:

Received mine. Seriously underwhelmed.

mm want to get one but not sure, want to add it to my soup cans collection.

[thegreatarchitect]

Jul 5, 2009 22:11:04 GMT 1 @notworthit said:

Jul 5, 2009 19:52:25 GMT 1 @snausages said:

I was defending iconoclast earlier bit this looks like a huge mess, a website that didn't work (I remember their website has been hacked before and would go weeks before being fixed-how professional is that?) and now it didn't even work to checkout or clear the cache?

And while I was defending iconoclast because many print houses do tiered pricing, I'm unimpressed by how they have it set up. Only a few will be available at low prices? Most places step prices in equal amounts and equal quantity, usually in sets of 3-4. I wouldn't be surprised to see 1/4 at $250, $500 $750, $1000 - but this is ridiculous. I've never seen another instance where the sell out prices is 11 times the amount of the opening price. And then the rumor that icono was trying to buy these back for $900—I actually don't fully believe that, but if true is extremely unprofessional imo. Reminds me of some of the beautiful losers editions that they were holding back trying to sell for 2, 3, 4 thousand dollars. It's not surprising but it is almost insulting.

I kind of agree with dkla here too, this print is a hell of a lot better than usual from Obey, but it's all so watered down now. I'm really awestruck that these sold out actually and I wonder what people think who paid anywhere from $750-2750 when these appear to be going for $750 or so now. It's amazing how this kind of mania affects people and the fear of missing out causes stupid buying decisions.


But don't get me wrong, I think the world of iconoclast when it comes to curating and putting on exhibitions, but they should really rethink the business side of things and farm it out if they can't handle it and develop a more professional pricing structure.

I'm still absolutely positive there were no prints sold at 2k+ This is so obviously a marketing ploy, and not even a clever one at that.

Shameful.

Absolutely

[thecsoldier]

Jul 12, 2009 12:54:55 GMT 1 @thegreatarchitect said:

Jul 5, 2009 22:11:04 GMT 1 @notworthit said:

I'm still absolutely positive there were no prints sold at 2k+ This is so obviously a marketing ploy, and not even a clever one at that.

Shameful.

agree in full!
gave me the run around and kept my money for a month before finally giving it back!

they really need to learn customer service and how to run a business.

[danmuppet]

here here- iconoclast have alot to learn on customer service. they made a massive mistake when i was trying to purchase a soup can- long story, and when i spoke to them on 2 occassions to sort it they were proper rude- mr strike told me i was wasting there time when the mistake was totoally down to them! they refunded me the money about 10 days later and i was 15 quid out of pocket due to exchange rate- NICE!

[sand]

I also had a problem with them.

Christian Strike was the rudest, most pretentious idiot I have ever had the misfortune to deal with in the urban art 'scene'.

I will never ever deal with them again as they do not even offer the most basic levels of customer service.

[danmuppet]

so we are not alone- what is that guys problem? i lost money, got spoken to like s&*t and not even an apology! real shame cause i really like the soup can image and want the next one- but begrudge giving him any of my money!

[sand]

Yes he is very rude and does not know how to run a online business where you have to deal with customers.

He made out that doing the most simple thing was a massive chore and was far too busy to deal with me. And having sent him 2 messages in a space of 2 weeks that I was - in his own words 'hassling' him.

I don't usually vent like this online about individuals / businesses, but his rudeness and utter lack of manners really angered me.

A complete and utter muppet.

He's lucky he is dealing with a big name artist such as Shepard Fairey as I doubt many would return because of their outstanding levels of customer service.

[curiousgeorge]

Given the statement on the Obey site regarding flipping on ebay etc, it might be an idea to email him the link to this thread, let him see what the people he is working with can be like?

[thecsoldier]

Jul 12, 2009 19:17:31 GMT 1 @sand said:

Yes he is very rude and does not know how to run a online business where you have to deal with customers.

He made out that doing the most simple thing was a massive chore and was far too busy to deal with me. And having sent him 2 messages in a space of 2 weeks that I was - in his own words 'hassling' him.

I don't usually vent like this online about individuals / businesses, but his rudeness and utter lack of manners really angered me.

A complete and utter muppet.

He's lucky he is dealing with a big name artist such as Shepard Fairey as I doubt many would return because of their outstanding levels of customer service.

SAME HERE!!

sent him an email a week ago and no responce! nothing!

[iconoclastedt]

There have been a lot inaccuracies, hearsay, mistruths, etc flying around here and we would like to send a message to everyone on this forum in order to clarify our policies. We would also like to thank everyone applicable for the thoughtful questions, and the increased level of seriousness and respectfulness on this subject. It is a refreshing change of pace, and we very much appreciate those who have approached us directly as well as those who posted questions on this board in that manner. Thank you, you know who you are.

In regards to the pricing of our editions, as we've stated, selling our editions at fair market value as well as increasing the price of an edition as it sells out is normal practice with all fine arts publishers. We have stated that we will at least start the Fairey prints at $250 (actually below market value) but they will go up in price as the edition sells out. The reasons we sell all of our editions at market price should be obvious to you, including doing our best to compensate the artists what they deserve for their hard work and talent. In this case, selling our prints at a fair market value price also does something else. It helps place and keep the artwork in the hands of real collectors who are passionate about the art instead of eBay flippers who have done nothing to earn that profit...and ensures the artists make the money they deserve, not the flippers. Proof positive is the first Soup Can. It rarely comes up on eBay because most people bought it at a price where they could not easily double or triple their money on eBay...and most importantly bought it because they love Shepard's work and his take on Warhol's iconic Campbell Soup Can images... It also is a smaller edition size than typical of Shepard's prints. Therefore, when it does pop up on eBay albeit rarely, it fetches a nice sum.

In regards to the people who placed a print in their cart and then waited until it was a higher price to "purchase", or "purchased" after it was listed as sold out, everyone was either refunded or given the option of reserving Soup Can III [something we didn’t have to do, but decided to do so in an effort to be accommodating]. Your orders are not legitimate but we tried to offer you a nice option despite you not adhering to our policies and messages. Many took our offer, some did not. As soon as our servers were backed up and stopped processing orders, we posted a very clear message that orders would be taken on a first come, first serve basis via phone and email only. Those of you who did not listen or adhere to our posts and policies were refunded or given the option of reserving Soup Can III at a great price. As stated, the pricing published on the website was updated and was accurate as we took phone and email orders throughout the evening and following day. We also clearly posted a message when the print sold out. However, many of you decided to try your luck despite our clear postings, as evidenced by the many posts on this board specifically discussing this matter.

We are human beings. Treat us as such and you will find us to be very reasonable and accommodating. We don't owe you anything other than being professional. We want to build relationships with people who are passionate about art and collecting art. But quite frankly, the ridiculous and misplaced sense of entitlement by many of you is beyond shocking. You went ahead and falsely ordered something that was no longer available, then complained in the most disrespectful way when you were told there was no print for you.

Some final comments. We do not check this board. If you have questions, or need help in any way, please do not hesitate to contact us: [e-mail]. Also, we will not post a notice on this board when the next Soup Can is released. Only those who are on our mailing list will be notified. If you’d like to be notified, please go to our website and sign up.

Finally, Shepard’s retrospective, Supply & Demand, will be coming to the Contemporary Arts Center in Cincinnati in February 2010. Our gallery, Country Club [www.countryclubprojects.com], works with the CAC often and has been instrumental in bringing the exhibit there. We hope anyone who lives in the region will come see the show, and we’d love to have you come by our gallery space as well. We also have a Los Angeles gallery location as well.

It is our hope that this message clarifies things for everyone on this board, but please do not hesitate to contact us with any questions.

Thanks
Iconoclast Editions

[notworthit]

thanks for the snooty message. pfft.

"We have stated that we will at least start the Fairey prints at $250 (actually below market value)"

how exactly do they work that out when Fairey prints go on sale almost every week at $45??? Regardless of what the image may be the 'hard work and talent' are the same are they not?

but hey, as you said,, you won't be replying so why am i bothering.

Oh and I (and I'm welcome to my opinion) still don't think for a second that you sold any of these prints at $2000.

[iconoclastedt]

Below is a reply we sent to someone who tried to order this print after it sold out. It reflects our position on the matter.

Quite honestly, we feel we've been overly generous. You “ordered” this print more than a day after it was posted as sold out. How you can expect us to accommodate you any farther than we already have, is beyond us. There is no possible way you could not have known that this print was sold out when you chose to try to purchase it. How you can feel cheated is seriously beyond our understanding. You chose to purchase this print knowing it was sold out! We processed the legitimate orders as quickly as we could, and we're going to address our legitimate customers for this print first, and then reach out to those who did not order the print legitimately such as yourself. We did this quickly and efficiently after the real orders were processed. It was your choice to try to scam the system and our policies. You need to live with that not us.

The offer we made to you is for a price well below what we can sell it for. trust us, many of our clientele are not on this board, nor do they troll ebay, or whatever. While we can appreciate your position in wanting to get this print, there are limits to what we can, and should, do. The thinly veiled threats regarding posting negative feedback on various forums is not going to change our position. The overwhelming majority of our customers have an excellent experience and track record with us.

[junta]

I've never dealt with you iconoclast and have no grudge to bear... but just looking at this from an objective perspective can I say you probobly shouldn't post just one side of the conversation, be reasonable. Granted I see your trying to put across your "position", and also I appreciate you arn't really at liberty to post private emails sent to you by other people, but still I hardly think it's fair to accuse this person of attempting to scam you. You may be steadfast in your belief they were not a "legitimate customer" but even so I think its a bit unfair, and overly sinister, to call the prospect of them posting negative feedback a "thinly veiled threat".
There IS an amount of negative feedback on this forum regarding your customer service, as you may have seen. Even if its not coming from the "overwhelming majority" of your customers it may be worth taking in to account.
I'm only jumping in on this thread as most of the forum members are based in the UK and its almost 3am so you won't get as much feedback on your comments as you might otherwise. Again I've got nothing bad to say about iconoclast as a business as I've never dealt with you, I'm only giving you feedback based on what I and many others see here and I hope you keep it in mind thats all.

[snausages]

the ridiculous and misplaced sense of entitlement by many of you is beyond shocking

You're may very well be right about this, but if I were a business I would really tone down this kind of rhetoric. But sure, I don't understand how anyone who purchased a print after it sold out expected to get a print, especially at a low price, and then to complain is just dumb. I do think Iconoclast's offer of buying the next print is beyond fair and way more than I would ever offer to these people. It's actually unfair to anyone else who wants the next print.

On the other hand, Iconoclast keeps harping about how they're saints for selling a few prints "under" market value, yet no mention that they sell at least half of the prints at over market value. I understand stepping prints in price but the extreme are ridiculous. I also wonder if they've taken any action to fix their website or up their manpower to deal with the business side of things.

[sand]

I made a legitimate purchase of the print at $350, a change of personal circumstances (potentially leaving the country and moving abroad) meant that I asked for a refund.

I was told that they doing me a 'favour' (despite them apparently offering to buy back other people's prints for higher than they paid to sell to other clients) by processing my refund.

They than took about 1 week to process a refund without telling me that they were keeping $10 as part of a 'processing fee'. I asked why they did not tell me about this 'fee' and I was told I should be grateful that I got a refund!!

In the end I lost about £30 or so due to this 'fee' and the exchange rate.

I got not apology and was instead belittled and basically told to leave them alone as I was 'hassling' them after sending approx maybe 3 messages in a 2/3 week period.

If it wasn't because I was in a rush to sort out any loose ends I would have waited and recieved the print and passed it onto somebody for my exact cost.

Iconoclast's customer service is a joke - and Christian I hope you are reading this.

LEARN SOME MANNERS + IF SORTING OUT CUSTOMER ORDERS AND QUERIES IS TOO MUCH FOR YOU I SUGGEST YOU DON'T SELL ARTWORK ONLINE!

[danmuppet]

i added my soup can to my cart and was charged $150 by mistake- not my fault!!! i was phoned an hour later by a woman who was totoally rude and made me feel as if this was my mistake SHE SAID AS NO MONIES HAD LEFT MY ACCOUNT WE HAD NO CONTRACT AS SUCH ,AND BASICALLY BUY IT AT THE HIGHER PRICE OR LUMP IT!- after 20 minutes of arguing about the fact she was being rude i put the phone down and could not bring myself to buy the print! ( i said is there anything they could do to sweeten the situation- like a little heads up on the next etc, NO NOTHING!) i did not even know the money had left my account for 2 weeks or so ( I WAS TOLD MONEY WOULD NOT LEAVE MY ACCOUNT) when i got a statement, this tranaction had taken me to be overdrawn and was charged interest-NICE! when they finally refunded me I have now discovered that i lost about £13 due to exchange rate- in the meantime i phoned to speak to someone and spoke to ryan munch who was a comlete gentleman and said he had heard the 1st conversation which was unacceptable and would get back to me within a few hours- nothing! so i phoned back and spoke to mr strike- and was told to stop wasting there time, was definately not offered the next print an was just spoken to like crap! so i am out of money ( which granted ryan said he will now look into ) was not treated well at all and WAS NOT OFFERED THE NEXT PRINT- IS MY ISSUE NOT BIG ENOUGH?
BE NICE- ITS NOT HARD!

[sand]

Jul 13, 2009 1:26:05 GMT 1 iconoclastedt said:

We are human beings. Treat us as such and you will find us to be very reasonable and accommodating. We don't owe you anything other than being professional. We want to build relationships with people who are passionate about art and collecting art.

Your customers are also human beings and no you were not very professional.

Seems like you're burning a lot of bridges with your customers rather than building any relationships.

[curiousgeorge]

Bump for humility

[wizzy]

Iconoclast, (or the person who is posting on their behalf here), you wrongly have the most condescending and rude attitude, i would never do any business with the likes of you and would never recommend your "Gallery" to anyone i know.

[origo]

History repeats itself, this is exactly why I called this business shady earlier in the thread.

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2009 9:45:34 GMT 1 origo said:

History repeats itself, this is exactly why I called this business shady earlier in the thread.

maybe this american slang - but i take shady to mean corrupt/criminal in nature - which I think you can safely say iconclast aren't - what i would say is they're inept at dealing with a level of demand they've found themselves in..although on the other hand listening to some of u guys I'd be rude and condescending too

[origo]

Unprofessional then, call it what you will.

[wizzy]

"Rude and condescending" are traits that no business should pass on to their clients whether past. present or future.