[Traumax]

Very interesting pieces: 1 alias of Invader, 1 mosaic, 1 Rubik, few Kaws, Keith Hearing....

www.sothebys.com/content/sothebys/en/auctions/2016/boundless-contemporary-art-hk0626.html#&sort=lotSortNum-asc&viewMode=grid&size=l&lot=18&scroll=10578

Happy new year everybody !

[roisaintlouis]

Some good results for Kaws, Invader, King of Kowloon, Nara, and Murakami www.sothebys.com/content/sothebys/en/auctions/2016/boundless-contemporary-art-hk0626.html#&sort=lotSortNum-asc&viewMode=grid&size=l&lot=18&scroll=10578

[alk416]

Very strong results... Speaks more of the HK market then the market price of these pieces

[Harveyn]

Haven't heard much about this selling exhibition at Sotheby's HK (17 - 28.03.2016)

www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/2016/they-would-be-kings-street-art-curated-by-steve-lazarides-hk0686.html

[Complex iCom]

Looks good, I'd like to see more pieces. I guess China is where the money is, a whole new emerging market for street art.

[motor]

Interview with Steve:

Steve Lazarides on His S|2 Show and the Rise of Street Art

[Matt]

I don't think I have ever seen an auction catalogue where every single page is this jaw droppingly awesome...

[Winter]

www.sothebys.com/pdf/2016/HK0686/index.html

[Henrik]

Lot 12 by Keith haring is so great, how much do you guys think it will sell for?

[Unica]

It looks like Laz is clearing out some old stock.

[Matt]

Mar 15, 2016 13:59:18 GMT 1 Unica said:

It looks like Laz is clearing out some old stock.

I would exchange some of my family members for some of that "old stock" !! The Haring is a beauty, some great aliases as well, oh and the Choes, my god the black one is just nuts...

[Lroy]

Mar 15, 2016 0:06:07 GMT 1 Matt said:

I don't think I have ever seen an auction catalogue where every single page is this jaw droppingly awesome...

These Invader are awesome and kill them all !

[wompa]

Fantastic lot!

[dueuomo]

I do not see the estimate range. Am I missing something?

[eschiff]

Mar 15, 2016 17:23:03 GMT 1 dueuomo said:

I do not see the estimate range. Am I missing something?

It's a selling exhibition, not an auction.

Based on my inquiry about the Os Gemeos canvas they're going to be stuck with a lot of their stock.  They quote a shade under 500k.  All other canvasses of that size are going anywhere from 100-150k, including the work in their upcoming NYC show.

[jB]

Odd that lot 14 says Haring, but surely its LA2...

[dreadnatty]

Mar 15, 2016 17:43:18 GMT 1 jB said:

Odd that lot 14 says Haring, but surely its LA2...

Looks like its got the LAroc on bottom. Prob quite a few 'Harings' out there that are really LA.

edit: it does say its a collab on page 34

[pollz66]

Feb 18, 2016 23:00:34 GMT 1 Complex iCom said:

Looks good, I'd like to see more pieces. I guess China is where the money is, a whole new emerging market for street art.

China is still way behind when it comes to being a player the art market. As an emerging economy it has expanded too fast so the money everyone is chasing over there is largely tied up in debt. Their stock market is all over the place..Having said that, the collectors with the serious money never seem to be affected by whatever the local or global economy is doing.

[gravity1]

Also interesting that all three B pieces don't seem to have PC which probably wouldn't fly so well here or in the UK but might be overlooked in HK. Might definitely create problems in the future when re-selling these pieces and adversely affect valuation. I just don't see a Laz COA as something I would be ok with on any piece let alone a mid to high six figure work.

Also not sure if anyone noticed the added verbiage on www.banksy.co.uk/

"Banksy is NOT on Facebook, Twitter or represented by Steve Lazarides or any other commercial gallery."

]

[pollz66]

Mar 15, 2016 19:01:07 GMT 1 gravity1 said:

Also interesting that all three B pieces don't seem to have PC which probably wouldn't fly so well here or in the UK but might be overlooked in HK. Might definitely create problems in the future when re-selling these pieces and adversely affect valuation. I just don't see a Laz COA as something I would be ok with on any piece let alone a mid to high six figure work.

Also not sure if anyone noticed the added verbiage on www.banksy.co.uk/

"Banksy is NOT on Facebook, Twitter or represented by Steve Lazarides or any other commercial gallery."

]

Laz is key to the value and development of the secondary market and for that reason I would imagine that any thumbs-up paperwork from Lazarides will be good enough for most collectors. 

[gravity1]

Mar 15, 2016 19:11:50 GMT 1 pollz66 said:

Mar 15, 2016 19:01:07 GMT 1 gravity1 said:

Also interesting that all three B pieces don't seem to have PC which probably wouldn't fly so well here or in the UK but might be overlooked in HK. Might definitely create problems in the future when re-selling these pieces and adversely affect valuation. I just don't see a Laz COA as something I would be ok with on any piece let alone a mid to high six figure work.

Also not sure if anyone noticed the added verbiage on www.banksy.co.uk/

"Banksy is NOT on Facebook, Twitter or represented by Steve Lazarides or any other commercial gallery."

]

Laz is key to the value and development of the secondary market and for that reason I would imagine that any thumbs-up paperwork from Lazarides will be good enough for most collectors. 

IMO Laz isn't "Key" to anything regarding Banksy presently and hasn't been for close to a decade now. The B market is doing and will do just fine with or without him. Guy is just slowly cashing in on works as prices continue to rise which has zero to do with him. I think seeing his endorsement as the equivalent of a PC COA is just negligence. Looking years down the line when your provenance is now 2-3 degrees of separation away, ending in a "gift from artist" statement from Laz, doesn't really sound well. Just my opinion but unless it was something I just had to have , I'd seek a piece with PC.

[pollz66]

Mar 15, 2016 19:27:37 GMT 1 gravity1 said:

Mar 15, 2016 19:11:50 GMT 1 pollz66 said:

Laz is key to the value and development of the secondary market and for that reason I would imagine that any thumbs-up paperwork from Lazarides will be good enough for most collectors. 

IMO Laz isn't "Key" to anything regarding Banksy presently and hasn't been for close to a decade now. The B market is doing and will do just fine with or without him. Guy is just slowly cashing in on works as prices continue to rise which has zero to do with him. I think seeing his endorsement as the equivalent of a PC COA is just negligence. Looking years down the line when your provenance is now 2-3 degrees of separation away, ending in a "gift from artist" statement from Laz, doesn't really sound well. Just my opinion but unless it was something I just had to have , I'd seek a piece with PC.

Banksy has no interest in the secondary market because he declines to interact on any commercial level with the rest of the art world. He hasn't instigated much - if any - activity on the primary market these past few year either. It's naive to think that Laz isn't instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels. And as much as Banksy may not approve of what Lazarides now does, we wouldn't be having this conversation if Laz hadn't been at the helm, both before and after the split. 

[gravity1]

Mar 15, 2016 19:38:41 GMT 1 pollz66 said:

Mar 15, 2016 19:27:37 GMT 1 gravity1 said:

IMO Laz isn't "Key" to anything regarding Banksy presently and hasn't been for close to a decade now. The B market is doing and will do just fine with or without him. Guy is just slowly cashing in on works as prices continue to rise which has zero to do with him. I think seeing his endorsement as the equivalent of a PC COA is just negligence. Looking years down the line when your provenance is now 2-3 degrees of separation away, ending in a "gift from artist" statement from Laz, doesn't really sound well. Just my opinion but unless it was something I just had to have , I'd seek a piece with PC.

Banksy has no interest in the secondary market because he declines to interact on any commercial level with the rest of the art world. He hasn't instigated much - if any - activity on the primary market these past few year either. It's naive to think that Laz isn't instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels. And as much as Banksy may not approve of what Lazarides now does, we wouldn't be having this conversation if Laz hadn't been at the helm, both before and after the split. 

Well let's look at the statement "It's naive to think that Laz isn't instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels." for a sec.

Banksy's value / pricing is simply a factor of supply and demand. His demand has been ever rising due to his being active, current and visible with his clever and meaningful intermittent global works as well as his major productions like BOTI and Dismaland.

The supply is largely out of proportion to demand simply because he no longer does public releases and hasn't for 6 years now. Simply, Laz has nothing to do with any of those factors and while he may have contributed to some degree over a decade ago and brings works to auction from time to time, he absolutely is not "instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels" and honestly don't see how he is a factor on any level presently. His past work with him is exactly that, that past.

As far is his current affect... If anything stands out with Banksy and Laz now it would be Laz's intermittent B social media cheap shots and emotional meltdowns only to be followed by his endless posting of historic Banksy images to remind everyone (his 4k follower demographic) why he's still relevant. We can also add his "unauthorized retrospectives" which actually kicked off in 2014 at Sotheby's which was overpriced and went largely unsold. The pieces he still trickles to market have no more affect than pieces the rest of the population brings to market year round so definitely not a factor there either. 

One thing I can't discount is his B collection as it is probably the best in existence and he holds some truly amazing and important works. Wish the guy the best but this misconception of his current relevance on the B market just had to be expanded upon.

 

[Poster Bob]

Your spiel ignores market manipulation. I've had numerous galleries tell me that people they know at Laz have told them to increase their prices.

[gravity1]

Mar 15, 2016 21:52:33 GMT 1 Poster Bob said:

Your spiel ignores market manipulation. I've had numerous galleries tell me that people they know at Laz have told them to increase their prices.

Since when is increasing prices "market manipulation"?  There is such a limited supply, people can ask whatever they like. If someone chooses to pay that price then it is a fair market price, even if inflated over the last or similar sale.

The funny thing is that if one is to talk about Art and "market manipulation", Banksy is the worst example to use out of any living artist today possessing anything close to his notoriety. He is actually the only name that is outside of the corrupt system that has propelled countless names to 7 and 8 figures by truly controlling and manipulating the market along with major financial institutions, galleries, museum and dealer cooperation and lastly auction house participation as well. Truly picked the wrong name to bring up market manipulation there mate but not the first time someone has made the stretch.

[Poster Bob]

Amazing riposte. It sounds like I have heard the rumblings of what's going on and you haven't. Expect major price increases soon.

[Deleted]

Mar 15, 2016 20:27:45 GMT 1 gravity1 said:

Mar 15, 2016 19:38:41 GMT 1 pollz66 said:

Banksy has no interest in the secondary market because he declines to interact on any commercial level with the rest of the art world. He hasn't instigated much - if any - activity on the primary market these past few year either. It's naive to think that Laz isn't instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels. And as much as Banksy may not approve of what Lazarides now does, we wouldn't be having this conversation if Laz hadn't been at the helm, both before and after the split. 

Well let's look at the statement "It's naive to think that Laz isn't instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels." for a sec.

Banksy's value / pricing is simply a factor of supply and demand. His demand has been ever rising due to his being active, current and visible with his clever and meaningful intermittent global works as well as his major productions like BOTI and Dismaland.

The supply is largely out of proportion to demand simply because he no longer does public releases and hasn't for 6 years now. Simply, Laz has nothing to do with any of those factors and while he may have contributed to some degree over a decade ago and brings works to auction from time to time, he absolutely is not "instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels" and honestly don't see how he is a factor on any level presently. His past work with him is exactly that, that past.

As far is his current affect... If anything stands out with Banksy and Laz now it would be Laz's intermittent B social media cheap shots and emotional meltdowns only to be followed by his endless posting of historic Banksy images to remind everyone (his 4k follower demographic) why he's still relevant. We can also add his "unauthorized retrospectives" which actually kicked off in 2014 at Sotheby's which was overpriced and went largely unsold. The pieces he still trickles to market have no more affect than pieces the rest of the population brings to market year round so definitely not a factor there either. 

One thing I can't discount is his B collection as it is probably the best in existence and he holds some truly amazing and important works. Wish the guy the best but this misconception of his current relevance on the B market just had to be expanded upon.

 

 To a degree the art market is controlled by auction houses and dealers (the big boys so to speak) whether they are working together or not.

Supply and demand is controlled in all commodities for middle men to make money.

 Whether the art has provenance from Lazarides or a PC certificate is not debatable for some auction houses..

It all comes down to who Sotheby's and other salerooms recognises as an authenticator. If Laz is recognised by Sotheby's etc then buyers are covered.

[Black Apple Art]

Mar 16, 2016 0:25:02 GMT 1 @elviswarhol said:

Mar 15, 2016 20:27:45 GMT 1 gravity1 said:

Well let's look at the statement "It's naive to think that Laz isn't instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels." for a sec.

Banksy's value / pricing is simply a factor of supply and demand. His demand has been ever rising due to his being active, current and visible with his clever and meaningful intermittent global works as well as his major productions like BOTI and Dismaland.

The supply is largely out of proportion to demand simply because he no longer does public releases and hasn't for 6 years now. Simply, Laz has nothing to do with any of those factors and while he may have contributed to some degree over a decade ago and brings works to auction from time to time, he absolutely is not "instrumental in driving the value of Banksy on all levels" and honestly don't see how he is a factor on any level presently. His past work with him is exactly that, that past.

As far is his current affect... If anything stands out with Banksy and Laz now it would be Laz's intermittent B social media cheap shots and emotional meltdowns only to be followed by his endless posting of historic Banksy images to remind everyone (his 4k follower demographic) why he's still relevant. We can also add his "unauthorized retrospectives" which actually kicked off in 2014 at Sotheby's which was overpriced and went largely unsold. The pieces he still trickles to market have no more affect than pieces the rest of the population brings to market year round so definitely not a factor there either. 

One thing I can't discount is his B collection as it is probably the best in existence and he holds some truly amazing and important works. Wish the guy the best but this misconception of his current relevance on the B market just had to be expanded upon.

 

 To a degree the art market is controlled by auction houses and dealers (the big boys so to speak) whether they are working together or not.

Supply and demand is controlled in all commodities for middle men to make money.

 Whether the art has provenance from Lazarides or a PC certificate is not debatable for some auction houses..

It all comes down to who Sotheby's and other salerooms recognises as an authenticator. If Laz is recognised by Sotheby's etc then buyers are covered.

Agree @elviswarhol but if it were my money I'd definitely want the PC endorsement and seems most Laz usually offers does have it, which is why it seemed odd that this entire lot didn't. "Gift" pieces with no PC is grey at the very least and an absolute NO NO in every other instance for me. With the volatility of the B / Laz relationship, or lack thereof,  I definitely wouldn't feel confident with the possibility of something in the effect of the B camp actually refuting some works. In actually all would probably be fine but for me, why even take the chance unless the piece was seriously discounted which a don't think would happen.  

[rbk]

what will be really interesting is Sothebeys might recognise them but will be interesting if the other auction houses do.

this will also be the first time pieces with no COA will have been offered to the market with prices higher than those with a COA quite strange indeed

thats if COA's are not avail on them. not sure that is the case or did I miss something saw gift mentioned on th monkey but thats all

[Deleted]

Mar 16, 2016 0:55:24 GMT 1 Black Apple Art said:

Agree @elviswarhol but if it were my money I'd definitely want the PC endorsement and seems most Laz usually offers does have it, which is why it seemed odd that this entire lot didn't. "Gift" pieces with no PC is grey at the very least and an absolute NO NO in every other instance for me. With the volatility of the B / Laz relationship, or lack thereof,  I definitely wouldn't feel confident with the possibility of something in the effect of the B camp actually refuting some works. In actually all would probably be fine but for me, why even take the chance unless the piece was seriously discounted which a don't think would happen.  

What are the facts behind your statement that the works don't have Pest Control COA's?

This is Sotheby's, not Julien's or Dickinson's Real Deal, they will have PC certs.