[maccamcd]

quick quick lets sell.....

[Strange Al]

Thursday - check out the "unlimited print runs" thread from the last few days.

[corblimeylimey]

admin said:

;D Kingdomcome,

Yeah, I think some people are coming to terms with the fact that they cant afford any new Banksy pieces (thats me ) and we also have some that have loads of money so never need to sell any prints, but aint fast off the mark buying the prints in the first place, but then feel a bit about giving anyone else say twice the amount of money for a piece further down the line People jumping on the band wagon just that bit too late

Im pretty much out of getting any new Banksy's dint get any of the last 4 but I aint worried about anyone else getting them and not me ;D good luck to them! Im gonna buy stuff from other artists that I can afford ;D

I'm assuming you've got some nice Banksy prints from back in the day haven't you silky? you were into buying his prints before I knew they existed.

[kingdomcome]

Great and honest POV ThursdayFeeling, .....at the end of the day....POW really dont need to raise prices extortionately, they are after all still making heaps of cash without needing to further alienating 'true' fans...

[BME]

admin said:

;D Kingdomcome,

Yeah, I think some people are coming to terms with the fact that they cant afford any new Banksy pieces (thats me ) and we also have some that have loads of money so never need to sell any prints, but aint fast off the mark buying the prints in the first place, but then feel a bit about giving anyone else say twice the amount of money for a piece further down the line People jumping on the band wagon just that bit too late

Im pretty much out of getting any new Banksy's dint get any of the last 4 but I aint worried about anyone else getting them and not me ;D good luck to them! Im gonna buy stuff from other artists that I can afford ;D

Silky, I think I should report you to the authorities for emoticon abuse!!

;D

[kingdomcome]

POW, Lazinc and Mr Banks are in this to make money, Im sure they all didnt realise how big it would get...

As for unlimted runs, its interesting because in the 60's Warhol was of the ethos that art can and should be mass produced, making it accessible to everyone.

Hence he would often set up a screen print and leave his minions to make multiple copies of his work. Its only in recent times that the Andy Warhol Foundation decides which of his art is a Warhol 'authentic' and which isnt.....

If they give dont you the offical stamp a million pound painting is rendered worthless.

Incredible really..as its not really what Warhol stood for.

If POW adopted a Warhol esq approach the arse would fall out of the Banksy market and naturally they wouldnt want that and neither would anyone who has forked out for one...

[BME]

I strongly dislike the idea of people making enormous profts selling prints that they haven't even received. However, at times, I reckon we can all become a bit too puritanical about the issue of 'ebay baggers'. Most people on this forum have bought and sold a few prints (myself included). To be honest, given the price rises in recent months, if I had never sold a print many works- Banksy, Neate etc would be completely out of my reach.

To me its not the selling of prints itself that is objectionable but the buying of prints purely in order to sell them. People listing 'morons' prints at the moment clearly fall into this category but in the majority of cases we don't know why someone bought a print or indeed why they are selling it. I suppose people who sell earlier are more likely to be 'baggers' but equally those who keep their prints stashed in tubes for months or years might still have bought to sell, its just that its harder to accuse them of it. Anyway, its a messy business and because I don't have a full understanding of the circumstances of each seller I am, generally, reluctant to criticise them.

[blackasmarch]

leom9259 said:

I strongly dislike the idea of people making enormous profts selling prints that they haven't even received. However, at times, I reckon we can all become a bit too puritanical about the issue of 'ebay baggers'. Most people on this forum have bought and sold a few prints (myself included). To be honest, given the price rises in recent months, if I had never sold a print many works- Banksy, Neate etc would be completely out of my reach.

To me its not the selling of prints itself that is objectionable but the buying of prints purely in order to sell them. People listing 'morons' prints at the moment clearly fall into this category but in the majority of cases we don't know why someone bought a print or indeed why they are selling it. I suppose people who sell earlier are more likely to be 'baggers' but equally those who keep their prints stashed in tubes for months or years might still have bought to sell, its just that its harder to accuse them of it. Anyway, its a messy business and because I don't have a full understanding of the circumstances of each seller I am, generally, reluctant to criticise them.

very eloquent- couldn't agree more. respect.

[rhinomilk]

ianneedshelp said:

The market for Banksy prints is continually increasing and will do until the market is flooded, with supply being limited, the market price will increase.

how would they flood the market? by Banksy being more prolific? This is probably why they've been so deliberate in releasing the rest of the LA prints. I would think they're being very careful about releasing too much in a short amount of time.

(i'm just rambling btw)

[Daniel Silk]

corblimeylimey said:

I'm assuming you've got some nice Banksy prints from back in the day haven't you silky? you were into buying his prints before I knew they existed.

I aint got as much as most people think I cant afford to keep hold of stuff coz the only way I can buy anything new is to sell one of my older pieces I guess some people on here are in good jobs earning pretty good money so they never need to sell anything, and I hope they understand that not everyone is that lucky I must buy clever, to be able to get the pieces of Art I really want ;D

[gordy]

E-bay is probably the only chance that most people will have of getting hold of a Banksy these days.
I don't have hours to sit in front of a PC, a high speed connection and the prints are always released when I'm working....

I must be in the wrong profession as some people seem to be constantly watching? fair play to you...

I think they should have runs of a thousand unsigned for each print - this would mean that you would probably only pay £400 even in the secondary market

[Daniel Silk]

gordy said:

E-bay is probably the only chance that most people will have of getting hold of a Banksy these days.
I don't have hours to sit in front of a PC, a high speed connection and the prints are always released when I'm working....

I must be in the wrong profession as some people seem to be constantly watching? fair play to you...

I think they should have runs of a thousand unsigned for each print - this would mean that you would probably only pay £400 even in the secondary market

Yeah, if they want everyone to have a chance of getting one why not bring out an Unsigned edition of 5,000 at about £30 each, and a Signed edition of 200 at about £500 each ;D
Surley, everyone is happy then? That would make loads of money for POW/Banksy and we would all be happy coz we could all get a print no trouble ;D

[ThursdayFeeling]

rhinomilk said:

ianneedshelp said:

The market for Banksy prints is continually increasing and will do until the market is flooded, with supply being limited, the market price will increase.

how would they flood the market? by Banksy being more prolific? This is probably why they've been so deliberate in releasing the rest of the LA prints. I would think they're being very careful about releasing too much in a short amount of time.

(i'm just rambling btw)

Supply would equal demand, if supply was unlimited the price would fall, the market on ebay would be non existent.

And would we still be buying Banksy, if he was so ready available......probably not.

POW are trying hard to keep the price down so at least we have a chance to buy a desirable piece of art. For them to do this we just have to live with the Ebay and the 'baggers'

[Strange Al]

admin said:

gordy said:

E-bay is probably the only chance that most people will have of getting hold of a Banksy these days.
I don't have hours to sit in front of a PC, a high speed connection and the prints are always released when I'm working....

I must be in the wrong profession as some people seem to be constantly watching? fair play to you...

I think they should have runs of a thousand unsigned for each print - this would mean that you would probably only pay £400 even in the secondary market

Yeah, if they want everyone to have a chance of getting one why not bring out an Unsigned edition of 5,000 at about £30 each, and a Signed edition of 200 at about £500 each ;D
Surley, everyone is happy then? That would make loads of money for POW/Banksy and we would all be happy coz we could all get a print no trouble ;D

While part of me is all for this. When we discussed unlimited/open editions previously, quite a few of us seemed to agree that the exclusivity of the prints is a part of the appeal.

Plus, what would the forum talk about if we could all get our hands on every Banksy and there were no more baggers. Art perhaps?

[Ripper1331]

I think eBay also provides all of us with a good price range as to what the work is worth - if it wasn't for eBay most of us would have no idea what our prints were worth.

This also has really benefited both POW and the artists. If people weren't buying and selling the Banksy's it would be like it was a few years ago where they had a load of prints for sale and no body was buying them. We can all kick ourselves for not picking up those prints now but at the time they didn't have these huge values that eBay trading has helped to create.

I understand people being mad about others buying for the investment and leaving the collector out in the cold but it happens with most collectibles at one point or another and if it didn’t your collection would be worth much less.

[Daniel Silk]

jjoschi44 said:

admin said:

Yeah, if they want everyone to have a chance of getting one why not bring out an Unsigned edition of 5,000 at about £30 each, and a Signed edition of 200 at about £500 each ;D
Surley, everyone is happy then? That would make loads of money for POW/Banksy and we would all be happy coz we could all get a print no trouble ;D

While part of me is all for this. When we discussed unlimited/open editions previously, quite a few of us seemed to agree that the exclusivity of the prints is a part of the appeal.

Plus, what would the forum talk about if we could all get our hands on every Banksy and there were no more baggers. Art perhaps?

Yeah your right ;D
Its not gonna be perfect whatever happens I think people just need to accept things and get on with it. If they cant get a Banksy from POW, and they don't want to pay ebay prices, then they can always buy stuff from other artists for much less money ;D or as you say, are people buying Banksy just coz the values are going up like they are, and they want to be seen as a Banksy owner -

"oh, yes Rupert! come round to our dinner party this evening, and I will show you my Banksy collection, he's that very expensive graffiti artist don't you know"

[gordy]

If the image was good enough - lets say trollies - there would still be demand for a thousand unsigned easily.... ;D

Surely the idea behind screenprints is a cheap alternative....available to the majority

POW/Laz could still release editions of 50 on canvas etc....and make even more money.... ;D ;D

[Daniel Silk]

gordy said:

If the image was good enough - lets say trollies - there would still be demand for a thousand unsigned easily.... ;D

Surely the idea behind screenprints is a cheap alternative....available to the majority

POW/Laz could still release editions of 50 on canvas etc....and make even more money.... ;D ;D

I wonder if the only reason why they aint doing bigger runs is coz they just aint got the time or space
Should they give up on printing the stuff themselves and get it done by and outside company? or should they invest in a big industrial unit out of London, get in some machinery, and more staff?

[hankpank]

admin said:

Yeah, if they want everyone to have a chance of getting one why not bring out an Unsigned edition of 5,000 at about £30 each, and a Signed edition of 200 at about £500 each ;D
Surley, everyone is happy then? That would make loads of money for POW/Banksy and we would all be happy coz we could all get a print no trouble ;D

As for the unlimited edition these would have to be off-set prints and then they can't compete in quality with hand made screen prints. I also am sure the people at POW are in it out of interest, the art and the fun. And were is that when you're just a poster manufacturer or are spending weeks with churning out thousands of unlimited screen prints that originally was released months/years ago?

I don't know how long it takes to make a 3/4-colour screen print including the making of the screen. Anyone have an educated guess?

[gordy]

Maybe outside help....

We discuss how much POW must make etc... from a Banksy print but somebody at POW must think how much money they lose from the current process.... and make people happy/sad depending whether you F5 enough..

I certainly have spent my money on other artists

[yeah7]

Are the prices going on ebay their true value? I'd value most slightly higher than they sell on ebay, not everyone is confident buying on ebay, it still carries a bit of risk.... Sadly not everyone is trustworthy. Being able to physically view the print is worth that little bit extra for me, along with the added confidence of it being genuine.

Unlimited runs wouldn't bother me (hey, I've bought art from IKEA ), but aslong as they continued with the limited runs. Simply, if we want the limited runs we're going to have to put up with people selling on ebay for a quick profit.

[tomhills1]

devils advocate here. if someone told you that they knew of a bent jockey that was going to do something specific - fall at the eigth - and you could go down ladbrokes and chuck say, £650 on odds of say, 4-1. you would then be looking at a return of £3250 including your stake.

if you can't already see where i'm going with this then i shall proceed. can you blame someone's entrpenaurial spirit in making around £2500 in pure profit? if i knew a way of making that much money overnight i would.

however, as drug dealing is illegal then you have to look at other ways. buying a banksy for profit is not. however much we all dislike it, it is an innevitabilty of a free and open market.

how do we solve it? we don't. the back is broken, and i for one think anyone who wants to get a banksy @ POW prices now has only three chances left. if you get one, you can trade it for something you like more, if you don't you will have to pay silly money or walk away.

i for one don't want any of the remaining prints for myself but as an ends to a means of aquiring my holy grail, then i'm tempted to join the free-for-all.

imagine then if you will, how someone who has no interest in art sees this conundrum? they have different ends to find the means to we just see things differently.

as such, i genuinely believe this is the last we will see of banksy on POW unless he does what some of you have alluded to and do a large run.

oh, and f*ck the signed editions off out of it and leave them for the collectors. not much of a margin to be made from a large edition of unsigned, therefore the baggers will have to find a better way of making 400% overnight profits.

the unsigned may rise more steadily over time which will only be realised by those that hang on to them long-term.

the end. ;D

[monkeypuzzle]

admin said:

gordy said:

If the image was good enough - lets say trollies - there would still be demand for a thousand unsigned easily.... ;D

Surely the idea behind screenprints is a cheap alternative....available to the majority

POW/Laz could still release editions of 50 on canvas etc....and make even more money.... ;D ;D

I wonder if the only reason why they aint doing bigger runs is coz they just aint got the time or space
Should they give up on printing the stuff themselves and get it done by and outside company? or should they invest in a big industrial unit out of London, get in some machinery, and more staff?

Getting it done by an outside company is what lead to the substantial number of backdoor prints, at least if its done in house then unscrupulous sods cant cash in on other folks ignorance.

[maccamcd]

i think they (pow) are doing it just fine, yes i got a sepia, i would still agree if i didn't. lets face it, most of us buy or have done because we like what it says/don't say etc....he is a genious blah blah....BUT...we ALL also like the idea of having something scarce, whether its the signed or unsigned from pow, its a talking piece of art with our mates, family etc. hands up if its not a feel good factor thing with any of you?

[tomhills1]

maccamcd said:

i think they (pow) are doing it just fine, yes i got a sepia, i would still agree if i didn't. lets face it, most of us buy or have done because we like what it says/don't say etc....he is a genious blah blah....BUT...we ALL also like the idea of having something scarce, whether its the signed or unsigned from pow, its a talking piece of art with our mates, family etc. hands up if its not a feel good factor thing with any of you?

fact. plus one.

although we're drifting back to this thread a littlebanksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=powlaz&action=display&thread=1175524300. stick to the point. ;D

[maccamcd]

the point seems to always head back to capitalism? you all secretly love it! FACT
more points please.
what do points make and how do i get a nice pretty picture under my name?

[tomhills1]

maccamcd said:

the point seems to always head back to capitalism? you all secretly love it! FACT
more points please.
what do points make and how do i get a nice pretty picture under my name?

points make prizes. sorry. you can get a pretty picture under your name by going here banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=whatsitabout&action=display&thread=1152113399. or you could just give me your CWS

[piperson]

kingdomcome said:

How do POW actually intend to stop people reselling prints on the bay?

If you dont disclose the print number and hold the auction as private, so they cant try and contact any buyers to establish the prints number, how is it possible to stop an ebay sale....?

if they contact the seller (and the seller replyed) they will get the sellers email,

sooo if the seller didn't think about it (and used the same email address) they may be able to link it to the sales?

would that work?

[maccamcd]

silence so far, and read many times.....

[slinkink]

i think that to many people it doesn't really matter if the price is £500 from pow or £2000 from a dealer or ebay seller. the price is way way out of their reach. i think we should remember that anyone who can afford the pow prices is lucky. most people coudn't begin to comprehend being able to spend that on something lovely to look at.

and luck isn't a new event in this world. some of the people on here were lucky enough to be able to afford banksy pieces when they were £40 or so. at the time i loved his work but i couldn't justify that kind of money when i was struggling just to find the rent.

times have changed a lot for me and now i can afford to become part of the thousands hitting refresh on my computer

i think it is interesting that some of the posters on here are upset because banksy's popularity means they weren't able to bag a print in the recent chaos. but i wonder really if they would prefer an alternate reality where there were still unsold signed morons sitting at pow but where also the signed BH, BME, GR etc etc prints on their walls were still worth the original price...