[randomname]

Oct 30, 2013 18:40:31 GMT 1 pcant said:

Maybe, although if the people who reportedly bought WCP prints at Banksy prices did so without ever seeing the print in person (and it has no COA, no provable trail) then those people are fools. My point was more about how these have been criticized on here as looking terrible and awful, that it's better to print out something from Banksy's site and bang it up on the wall, while the same print is being slammed as so good that the only way to tell it is a copy is to see the WCP stamp on the back. And that seems like a contradiction. I also wonder if people who own real Rolex's get mad at people who buy fake Rolex's.

As far as I know the people who bought fake Banksys did so online without having them authenticated or seeing them in person. Which I fully agree is pretty foolish. Regardless, If you were to compare them side-by-side, I think you would see the difference in quality. 

And I don't think people who own Rolexes get mad at people who buy fakes. I think they shake their heads and laugh. Which I imagine is the same response people who own Banksys have to people who buy WCP prints.

[Deleted]

Oct 30, 2013 18:50:17 GMT 1 iamzero said:

Surely the problem lies in buying a framed print in the first place. If I'm spending that amount of cash on a Banksy print there is not a hope in hell I'm gonna do it without taking it out from the frame and having a pest control stifficate.

WCP can't be held responsible for that? I have no problem with these, yes I own a WCP Kate and no I don't yet own a Banksy due to people overpricing on here even though I have cash waiting for a signed copy of one.

Well this is the point I've been trying to make but some people seem incapable of understanding it. Curious George seems to blame WCP because people are selling his framed prints as genuine Banksys and other people are buying them! How is it WCPs fault? Like I said to him before (but he seems incapable of answering) how is this different from me buying a genuine unsigned Banksy and signing it myself? Would that be the fault of the person who sold it to me? Someone said 'Yes but an unsigned print still costs thousands' - so what? It's still much worse than someone trying to openly sell a copy. Sadly that point went over their head.

Anyone who believes there are no fake Banksys floating around needs their head checked. If there were no Banksys then why would Pest Control be so crucial for selling a genuine Banksy? Here comes someone who marks them WCP and openly markets them as copies yet he's seen to be the devil in many people's eyes. What would they like WCP to do? Stamp 'COPY' across the front of the print? Would I buy one? No but does it bother me that they exist? No it doesn't.


There's no point in continuing this conversation (especially with Curious George reverting to type by resorting to his aggressive tone). If people don't like it then report it to eBay, what good do they think they'll achieve by slagging WCP off on an art forum.

So people - fill your boots if you like. Tell the world how bad WCP is, his prints seem to be selling very well on eBay at the moment so I don't think he cares.

[illu]

Oct 30, 2013 20:09:29 GMT 1 Happy Go Lucky Chap said:

The WCP gold Kates are all gone

send free®range a pm!

[iamzero]

Oh and would've bought a Nola too.

[Snakes]

Oct 29, 2013 15:44:58 GMT 1 street4RT said:

Although I can certainly see the reasons as to why people may want to buy this (affordability) .... it is pretty much the same as downloading illegal MP3s .... or using counterfeit software .....

I think its a morality thing .... but ultimately you are not helping the artist .... as the artist is the person who loses out .... instead someone else makes a good profit.

I am neutral on the subject.

I would personally not buy it, but I believe we all have a right to decide what our morals are.

How is it a morality thing?

Banksy committed acts of criminal damage to get to where he is today and the WCP copies Banksys prints and makes a few quid out of it. He is not deceiving anyone in what he is selling and if there were legal issues with the WCP selling said copied prints then the Banksy legal team would have stomped all over him.

What was immoral was when POW employees were shill bidding Banksy prints together with all of the other dodgy business they were doing with backdoor prints and the like.

[Snakes]

www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/25/artnews.art2

Banksy, the mysterious graffiti artist who has gone from underground street phenomenon to darling of collectors including Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, has been embroiled in an eBay scandal.

According to a whistleblower who passed information to the Art Newspaper, unauthorised prints by the artist have been sold on the online auction site, and their prices inflated by a process known as "shill bidding", in which prices are artificially raised by bogus bids made by accomplices of the seller.

The unauthorised prints have been put on eBay by employees of the company that publishes Banksy's works on paper, Pictures on Walls (POW). They have been embossed with a replica of POW's blind stamp, and some carry fake signatures.

Banksy's dealer, Banksy and the directors of POW acknowledged that unauthorised prints had been sold on eBay and that they and eBay's customers have been "victims of criminal behaviour". The company is launching an investigation and inviting concerned Banksy print-owners to come forward.

In a statement, they said: "It appears that in spite of strict fiscal controls and strict controls of the physical prints that 25 bad prints have been sold on eBay.

"Pictures on Walls have called on eBay to assist in tracing these sales and also in tracing the money which will inexorably lead to those that have cynically betrayed the trust of the public, the artist and the company."

According to the whistleblower, the fraud started about a year ago. Three employees of POW, one of whom has now left the company to start another prints sales firm, asked associates to sell prints on eBay. The prints were either printed in addition to the limited-edition runs, or may have been part of the standard overrun produced by publishers - which is then supposed to be destroyed.

The Art Newspaper's source said that 20 unauthorised prints had been placed on eBay, and the fraud could involve 100 prints. "We'd start up other accounts and just ... type in £1,000 higher than what someone else had put on it," the source said of the scheme. "We did that on everything we sold." POW, however, estimates that only 25 prints were affected.

One print sold fraudulently was Soup Can, which made more than £6,000. Another was Grin Reaper. Potential buyers were told they could confirm authenticity by calling a specific employee at POW.

Prices for Banksy's works have soared in the past year as a result of his frequent appearances in the media and the fascination surrounding his identity. His Space Girl and Bird, commissioned for a Blur album, made £288,000 at auction in April.

[Deleted]

It's as if you all need reasons to take the matter away from your own judgement system ... The onus is on each individual to do what is right by their own set of values

[Deleted]

Oct 30, 2013 22:12:22 GMT 1 Snakes said:

www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/25/artnews.art2

Banksy, the mysterious graffiti artist who has gone from underground street phenomenon to darling of collectors including Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, has been embroiled in an eBay scandal.

According to a whistleblower who passed information to the Art Newspaper, unauthorised prints by the artist have been sold on the online auction site, and their prices inflated by a process known as "shill bidding", in which prices are artificially raised by bogus bids made by accomplices of the seller.

The unauthorised prints have been put on eBay by employees of the company that publishes Banksy's works on paper, Pictures on Walls (POW). They have been embossed with a replica of POW's blind stamp, and some carry fake signatures.

Banksy's dealer, Banksy and the directors of POW acknowledged that unauthorised prints had been sold on eBay and that they and eBay's customers have been "victims of criminal behaviour". The company is launching an investigation and inviting concerned Banksy print-owners to come forward.

In a statement, they said: "It appears that in spite of strict fiscal controls and strict controls of the physical prints that 25 bad prints have been sold on eBay.

"Pictures on Walls have called on eBay to assist in tracing these sales and also in tracing the money which will inexorably lead to those that have cynically betrayed the trust of the public, the artist and the company."

According to the whistleblower, the fraud started about a year ago. Three employees of POW, one of whom has now left the company to start another prints sales firm, asked associates to sell prints on eBay. The prints were either printed in addition to the limited-edition runs, or may have been part of the standard overrun produced by publishers - which is then supposed to be destroyed.

The Art Newspaper's source said that 20 unauthorised prints had been placed on eBay, and the fraud could involve 100 prints. "We'd start up other accounts and just ... type in £1,000 higher than what someone else had put on it," the source said of the scheme. "We did that on everything we sold." POW, however, estimates that only 25 prints were affected.

One print sold fraudulently was Soup Can, which made more than £6,000. Another was Grin Reaper. Potential buyers were told they could confirm authenticity by calling a specific employee at POW.

Prices for Banksy's works have soared in the past year as a result of his frequent appearances in the media and the fascination surrounding his identity. His Space Girl and Bird, commissioned for a Blur album, made £288,000 at auction in April.

Well that puts WCP making £60 a pop for his prints in perspective.

Now what has been going on here with certain POW employees is truly disgusting. If people want to talk about a 'moral compass' then they need look no further than this lot.

But hey it's fine, people have stated on this very thread that there aren't any fake Banksys on EBay so we're all ok.

[kbfrombk]

Oct 30, 2013 22:39:54 GMT 1 @amboguy said:

Oct 30, 2013 22:12:22 GMT 1 Snakes said:

www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/25/artnews.art2

Banksy, the mysterious graffiti artist who has gone from underground street phenomenon to darling of collectors including Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, has been embroiled in an eBay scandal.

According to a whistleblower who passed information to the Art Newspaper, unauthorised prints by the artist have been sold on the online auction site, and their prices inflated by a process known as "shill bidding", in which prices are artificially raised by bogus bids made by accomplices of the seller.

The unauthorised prints have been put on eBay by employees of the company that publishes Banksy's works on paper, Pictures on Walls (POW). They have been embossed with a replica of POW's blind stamp, and some carry fake signatures.

Banksy's dealer, Banksy and the directors of POW acknowledged that unauthorised prints had been sold on eBay and that they and eBay's customers have been "victims of criminal behaviour". The company is launching an investigation and inviting concerned Banksy print-owners to come forward.

In a statement, they said: "It appears that in spite of strict fiscal controls and strict controls of the physical prints that 25 bad prints have been sold on eBay.

"Pictures on Walls have called on eBay to assist in tracing these sales and also in tracing the money which will inexorably lead to those that have cynically betrayed the trust of the public, the artist and the company."

According to the whistleblower, the fraud started about a year ago. Three employees of POW, one of whom has now left the company to start another prints sales firm, asked associates to sell prints on eBay. The prints were either printed in addition to the limited-edition runs, or may have been part of the standard overrun produced by publishers - which is then supposed to be destroyed.

The Art Newspaper's source said that 20 unauthorised prints had been placed on eBay, and the fraud could involve 100 prints. "We'd start up other accounts and just ... type in £1,000 higher than what someone else had put on it," the source said of the scheme. "We did that on everything we sold." POW, however, estimates that only 25 prints were affected.

One print sold fraudulently was Soup Can, which made more than £6,000. Another was Grin Reaper. Potential buyers were told they could confirm authenticity by calling a specific employee at POW.

Prices for Banksy's works have soared in the past year as a result of his frequent appearances in the media and the fascination surrounding his identity. His Space Girl and Bird, commissioned for a Blur album, made £288,000 at auction in April.

Well that puts WCP making £60 a pop for his prints in perspective.

Now what has been going on here with certain POW employees is truly disgusting. If people want to talk about a 'moral compass' then they need look no further than this lot.

But hey it's fine, people have stated on this very thread that there aren't any fake Banksys on EBay so we're all ok.

Hmph.  Certainly a lot to absorb there.  I would say "just goes to show you need to be very careful with these things" but I'd fear that the craft of forfeiture is above reproach in that regard.

[Snakes]

urbanartassociation.com/thread/49367

A bit more to read. Is pest control the poacher turned game keeper?

[randomname]

Oct 30, 2013 22:39:54 GMT 1 @amboguy said:

Oct 30, 2013 22:12:22 GMT 1 Snakes said:

www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/25/artnews.art2

Banksy, the mysterious graffiti artist who has gone from underground street phenomenon to darling of collectors including Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, has been embroiled in an eBay scandal.

According to a whistleblower who passed information to the Art Newspaper, unauthorised prints by the artist have been sold on the online auction site, and their prices inflated by a process known as "shill bidding", in which prices are artificially raised by bogus bids made by accomplices of the seller.

The unauthorised prints have been put on eBay by employees of the company that publishes Banksy's works on paper, Pictures on Walls (POW). They have been embossed with a replica of POW's blind stamp, and some carry fake signatures.

Banksy's dealer, Banksy and the directors of POW acknowledged that unauthorised prints had been sold on eBay and that they and eBay's customers have been "victims of criminal behaviour". The company is launching an investigation and inviting concerned Banksy print-owners to come forward.

In a statement, they said: "It appears that in spite of strict fiscal controls and strict controls of the physical prints that 25 bad prints have been sold on eBay.

"Pictures on Walls have called on eBay to assist in tracing these sales and also in tracing the money which will inexorably lead to those that have cynically betrayed the trust of the public, the artist and the company."

According to the whistleblower, the fraud started about a year ago. Three employees of POW, one of whom has now left the company to start another prints sales firm, asked associates to sell prints on eBay. The prints were either printed in addition to the limited-edition runs, or may have been part of the standard overrun produced by publishers - which is then supposed to be destroyed.

The Art Newspaper's source said that 20 unauthorised prints had been placed on eBay, and the fraud could involve 100 prints. "We'd start up other accounts and just ... type in £1,000 higher than what someone else had put on it," the source said of the scheme. "We did that on everything we sold." POW, however, estimates that only 25 prints were affected.

One print sold fraudulently was Soup Can, which made more than £6,000. Another was Grin Reaper. Potential buyers were told they could confirm authenticity by calling a specific employee at POW.

Prices for Banksy's works have soared in the past year as a result of his frequent appearances in the media and the fascination surrounding his identity. His Space Girl and Bird, commissioned for a Blur album, made £288,000 at auction in April.

Well that puts WCP making £60 a pop for his prints in perspective.

Now what has been going on here with certain POW employees is truly disgusting. If people want to talk about a 'moral compass' then they need look no further than this lot.

But hey it's fine, people have stated on this very thread that there aren't any fake Banksys on EBay so we're all ok.

Who said there aren't any fakes on ebay? Or are you just making stuff up as you go again?

[JD]

Oct 30, 2013 20:09:29 GMT 1 Happy Go Lucky Chap said:

The WCP gold Kates are all gone

Maybe they will reapear on ebay, all bought by flippers ?

[Black Apple Art]

Oct 30, 2013 23:02:43 GMT 1 randomname said:

Oct 30, 2013 22:39:54 GMT 1 @amboguy said:

Well that puts WCP making £60 a pop for his prints in perspective.

Now what has been going on here with certain POW employees is truly disgusting. If people want to talk about a 'moral compass' then they need look no further than this lot.

But hey it's fine, people have stated on this very thread that there aren't any fake Banksys on EBay so we're all ok.

Who said there aren't any fakes on ebay? Or are you just making stuff up as you go again?

That's a serious blow to POW. If there were only 6 instances and the prints prove to come from their employees they should compensate the buyers IMO. 

[spirit]

Oct 30, 2013 23:21:54 GMT 1 Black Apple Art said:

Oct 30, 2013 23:02:43 GMT 1 randomname said:

Who said there aren't any fakes on ebay? Or are you just making stuff up as you go again?

That's a serious blow to POW. If there were only 6 instances and the prints prove to come from their employees they should compensate the buyers IMO. 

Just to reiterate this article is 6 years old...

[Black Apple Art]

Oct 30, 2013 23:23:37 GMT 1 spirit said:

Oct 30, 2013 23:21:54 GMT 1 Black Apple Art said:

That's a serious blow to POW. If there were only 6 instances and the prints prove to come from their employees they should compensate the buyers IMO. 

Just to reiterate this article is 6 years old...

Ah didn't catch that. Thx...  hard to keep up with the Bansky thread throwing everything down the ladder at light speed. 

[curiousgeorge]

Oct 30, 2013 22:49:46 GMT 1 Snakes said:

urbanartassociation.com/thread/49367

A bit more to read. Is pest control the poacher turned game keeper?

Well well.......Love the irony here...

Poacher turned game keeper is like from one extreme to another right??

If I'm not mistaken you and the previous username you had were very pro-pow/pc.Now you seem anti-pow/pc...Hence the irony of poacher turned game keeper

Did you get refused a coa of sumfink?

[©hief']

Are WCP's prints any good? How close to the original? Anyone buy a Girl With Balloon - is the paper the same off white?
Thanks

[Deleted]

Oct 31, 2013 13:33:31 GMT 1 ©hief' said:

Are WCP's prints any good? How close to the original? Anyone buy a Girl With Balloon - is the paper the same off white?
Thanks

Well despite someone saying they look awful and nothing like the real thing and then contradicting themselves and saying that they could easily be passed off as originals I've heard they look just like the real thing.

I don't think you'll get an unbiased answer on this forum though as this you've probably noticed that the mention of WCP gets people frothing at the mouth!!

[Snakes]

Oct 31, 2013 13:33:31 GMT 1 ©hief' said:

Are WCP's prints any good? How close to the original? Anyone buy a Girl With Balloon - is the paper the same off white?
Thanks

QV, HMV, placard rat were terrible. Bad paper and sloppy printing. Laugh now was quite good and turf war and happy choppers were superb.

Would like to know actual quality of colour trolleys as am tempted to buy one and then sell my B&W trolleys.

[estelle getty fan club]

Downgrading your collection?

[johnnyh]

In Thailand next week so anyone looking for a Van Gogh, Warhol or Ipone 5 give me a shout
Can also get WCP copies at £10 a piece

[Deleted]

Oct 31, 2013 13:33:31 GMT 1 ©hief' said:

Are WCP's prints any good? How close to the original? Anyone buy a Girl With Balloon - is the paper the same off white?
Thanks

Forum member Sweetcorn is flipping WCP Kates on his Big Cartel site

sweetcorn.bigcartel.com/

Ask him if he has any others for sale if you're interested although you will have to pay almost double the price for the print than eBay prices!

[curiousgeorge]

Oct 30, 2013 20:32:44 GMT 1 @amboguy said:

Oct 30, 2013 18:50:17 GMT 1 iamzero said:

Surely the problem lies in buying a framed print in the first place. If I'm spending that amount of cash on a Banksy print there is not a hope in hell I'm gonna do it without taking it out from the frame and having a pest control stifficate.

WCP can't be held responsible for that? I have no problem with these, yes I own a WCP Kate and no I don't yet own a Banksy due to people overpricing on here even though I have cash waiting for a signed copy of one.

Well this is the point I've been trying to make but some people seem incapable of understanding it. Curious George seems to blame WCP because people are selling his framed prints as genuine Banksys and other people are buying them! How is it WCPs fault? Like I said to him before (but he seems incapable of answering) how is this different from me buying a genuine unsigned Banksy and signing it myself? Would that be the fault of the person who sold it to me? Someone said 'Yes but an unsigned print still costs thousands' - so what? It's still much worse than someone trying to openly sell a copy. Sadly that point went over their head.

Anyone who believes there are no fake Banksys floating around needs their head checked. If there were no Banksys then why would Pest Control be so crucial for selling a genuine Banksy? Here comes someone who marks them WCP and openly markets them as copies yet he's seen to be the devil in many people's eyes. What would they like WCP to do? Stamp 'COPY' across the front of the print? Would I buy one? No but does it bother me that they exist? No it doesn't.


There's no point in continuing this conversation (especially with Curious George reverting to type by resorting to his aggressive tone). If people don't like it then report it to eBay, what good do they think they'll achieve by slagging WCP off on an art forum.

So people - fill your boots if you like. Tell the world how bad WCP is, his prints seem to be selling very well on eBay at the moment so I don't think he cares.

Don't start playing the victim you silly little troll.Forum is littered with you calling people names and trying to bully your opinions as facts onto members.You tried the stupid threat of 'wanting to make it personal' and I made it clear I ain't a puppy that will roll over and perform tricks for you.If you are happy to dish it out then learn to accept it too.

Don't even like Banksy or his works yet always knee deep in threads about him= silly little troll

[Deleted]

Oct 31, 2013 14:05:30 GMT 1 johnnyh said:

In Thailand next week so anyone looking for a Van Gogh, Warhol or Ipone 5 give me a shout
Can also get WCP copies at £10 a piece

Lucky you !! 

[Damien]

why the commotion about a few copies :-), just buy or dont buy, not sure why theres so much chat about this

[Deleted]

Oct 31, 2013 14:22:51 GMT 1 Damien said:

why the commotion about a few copies :-), just buy or dont buy, not sure why theres so much chat about this

This is what I've been trying to work out. You've got some people denouncing him as the devil, Curious George has started throwing his toys out of the pram again and people have stated that if you buy a WCP you're 'morally bankrupt'.

It's interesting that nobody here has said that they've contacted eBay to ask to get these pulled from the listings. All they've done is keep the thread going and potentially got more people looking at WCP's listings on eBay. I'm sure he'll be loving this thread if he's reading it now!

I wouldn't buy one as I don't really like them. I wouldn't see the need or think that I have the right to tell other people what they can or can't spend their own money on though.

[Deleted]

curiousgeorge:

[/quote] I ain't a puppy that will roll over and perform tricks for you./quote]


Oh I don't know, you seem to be playing on a swing in your avatar.

What else can you do then?

[randomname]

Oct 31, 2013 14:22:51 GMT 1 Damien said:

why the commotion about a few copies :-), just buy or dont buy, not sure why theres so much chat about this

I think if you read back through this thread, there's very little commotion about the actual prints. You have people saying why they don't like fakes or why they don't really care, followed by "amboguy" claiming people believe and said things they never actually said. He's either trolling or incredibly dense. Or very likely, a bit of both.

[Deleted]

Oct 31, 2013 15:02:54 GMT 1 randomname said:

Oct 31, 2013 14:22:51 GMT 1 Damien said:

why the commotion about a few copies :-), just buy or dont buy, not sure why theres so much chat about this

I think if you read back through this thread, there's very little commotion about the actual prints. You have people saying why they don't like fakes or why they don't really care, followed by "amboguy" claiming people believe and said things they never actually said. He's either trolling or incredibly dense. Or very likely, a bit of both.

Ooh get you. You write this and you say that I'm the one trolling! Pot - kettle??

Ok I'm completely bored of this thread now. WCP Kates have now sold out (thanks to people like you for giving him the free publicity) and his others seem to be selling fast too. I don't think there's much need to carry on the conversation now is there?

[randomname]

Oct 31, 2013 15:12:46 GMT 1 @amboguy said:

Oct 31, 2013 15:02:54 GMT 1 randomname said:

I think if you read back through this thread, there's very little commotion about the actual prints. You have people saying why they don't like fakes or why they don't really care, followed by "amboguy" claiming people believe and said things they never actually said. He's either trolling or incredibly dense. Or very likely, a bit of both.

Ooh get you. You write this and you say that I'm the one trolling! Pot - kettle??

Ok I'm completely bored of this thread now. WCP Kates have now sold out (thanks to people like you for giving him the free publicity) and his others seem to be selling fast too. I don't think there's much need to carry on the conversation now is there?

So by calling a troll a troll that makes me a troll? I would say, "nice logic." But somehow I don't think you understand the meaning of the word. I could point out multiple instances where someone tells you something. You ignore it and claim they said something completely different. If that's not trolling, it's simply stupidity. Either way, I wish you the best of luck in life. I have a feeling you're going to need it.