Banksy • Barcode Print

[Daniel Silk]

affart said:

I hope the Banksy market doesnt drop, i have just invested heavily in a pack of Banksy postcards & a Banksy sticket, theres no way i can afford to drop £20.....

ahhh! its you thats been buying everything up ;D Affart has cornered the market ;D

[Montubu7]

Lol

[Montubu7]

Like the ebay guy ( daz something) who snaps up multiples of all prints ( 3 signd morons!)

[RBK]

'dazsw18' and 'catlets' will be laughing it all the way to the bank next year IMO. They are basically doing what nu did last year - just with a MUCH larger bankroll, and also in signed prints (which haven't stopped going up).

Banksy is here to stay. He is at every major auction house and each subsequent time under the gavel has posted personal records. There is so much money 'invested' in Banksy right now, he/Laz would have to do something really stupid to derail the train.

Am I saying signed prints will never stop going up?.... NO. All markets correct at some time - but I think we are still on the up (for signed prints). Unsigned prints have levelled off and only certain images will continue to increase much (GWB, Barcode, LN, BME, HC, RC)

[daz205]

would all prints increase in value over time as there are less of them around for people to buy?

[Montubu7]

I agree, i am negotiating with someone to sell me half a Barcode print, its a good deal but the stumbling block is i want it at my place and not his!

[Daniel Silk]

thomas said:

I agree, i am negotiating with someone to sell me half a Barcode print, its a good deal but the stumbling block is i want it at my place and not his!

hmmm I have a feelin cutting it in half may effect the value a bit

[Montubu7]

I know but he reckons it will be twice as much if we say banksy cut it.......

[tomhills1]

i wrote this on another forum: here is an interesting conundrum. what if these increases continue and say, most "average" signed prints go for over £10k. you will have a very large number of people sitting on a wopping pile of cash, maybe over £50k for some.

now, i know it's only money but it's money that corrupts people, and even if you bought your prints on the secondary market for say a grand or two, it must be very tempting to part with one or two of them to realise the appreciation. if that became a widespread trend prices would drop off a little. this in turn would be seen as the beginning of a price correction and perhaps prices had peaked and could therefore lead to a wholesale panic and people trying to offload their prints while they can get top dollar.

it has happened in the housing market and happens everyday on the stock exchange, so it could conceivably happen anywhere else? i mean this is total conjecture and could happen today or in 2 ,3 years time or not at all.

also, if there is an economic downturn people will look at their assets, house, car, banksy prints? if it means paying the bills and putting food on the table there may be a glut of collectors offloading to keep their heads above water.

sorry to bring the topic down to money/investment etc but i thought it was relevant.

interested to know what people think.

[Montubu7]

Good points.
Being honest if i meant paying my mortgage off i would have to seriously consider which prints i would be holding onto!

[mcnuts]

thomas said:

Good points.
Being honest if i meant paying my mortgage off i would have to seriously consider which prints i would be holding onto!

i hear ya. i'd part with a couple to pay of my £30,000 student debt if the value really went up. just wish i started collecting earlier and that i could predict the future

[RBK]

lesbianwednesdays - Agree your prediction could defintely occur - but I think it will be very gradual. At the end of the day, "everyone has their price."

I bet almost all owners of valuable Banksy collections are very emotionally attached to their pieces - and it would take large offers for them to part with them. I'm not saying it won't happen, just don't think their will be a mad dash of people offloading.

[jam]

rklimek said:

I bet almost all owners of valuable Banksy collections are very emotionally attached to their pieces - and it would take large offers for them to part with them. I'm not saying it won't happen, just don't think their will be a mad dash of people offloading.

I agree with this... I know most of the art I have simply is not for sale, regardless of price (not withstanding a totally absurd offer). I would not take 30-40% over market for some as an example, because I love them and it isn't worth the extra money for me to have to go out and replace them just to take a profit. Plus, I feel an odd relation to the pieces (like their numbers, or where/when I got them) that I have owned for a few years... like a pet or something, you just dont sell certian things!

[Daniel Silk]

I think if anyone feels they must sell a Banksy print to pay the bills you will always find a growing number of people ready to buy it. We have seen a bit of a slowdown after Christmas, and many people have picked up a few bargains over that period, but now the values seem to be booming again ;D

Those who feel they have missed the boat with Banksy should remember that any one of the other artists we talk about on here could be just as big as Banksy in a couple of years time ;D Who knows! ;D

[tomhills1]

rklimek said:

lesbianwednesdays - Agree your prediction could defintely occur - but I think it will be very gradual.

I'm not saying it won't happen, just don't think their will be a mad dash of people offloading.

you see, i agree that there won't be a mad rush all the time it's banksy fanatics toying with their consciences and cashing in. where i think it could fall apart is, when regardless of choosing to sell, they have to sell - due to outside influences. then panic can set in and supply outstrips demand and you run the risk of a crash. it happens in almost every scenario of rapid economic growth, usually known as a price correction but can often include a crash.

my advice would be if that does happen, try and hold tight no matter how bad things get because although in the short-term prices may go below where they should be, in time they will rise and level off.

i'm just basing all this on general trends in other financial sectors, i have no knowledge or history of any sharp rises and crashes in the art world but would love to know of anything along those lines.

basically, what goes up must come down?

[johnerotten]

+1 respect Silky!

i like some of micallif's stuff and faile, some warhol($$$), but banksy is my favorite so far.

i think its important to buy something you would love to see on your wall, otherwise there are better "investments" to be made.

on the other hand, trading a signed to acquire 4 unsigned may be the only way to afford future prints for those without deep pockets.

admin said:

I think if anyone feels they must sell a Banksy print to pay the bills you will always find a growing number of people ready to buy it. We have seen a bit of a slowdown after Christmas, and many people have picked up a few bargains over that period, but now the values seem to be booming again ;D

Those who feel they have missed the boat with Banksy should remember that any one of the other artists we talk about on here could be just as big as Banksy in a couple of years time ;D Who knows! ;D

[tomhills1]

good point john, every day i look at my reaper and wonder if i could live with chopping it in for a load of unsigned pieces, i curse the fact there is no un-signed edition as i would get rid for one in an instant.

don't think i could live without him now though

[manchestermike]

tomhills1 said:

i curse the fact there is no un-signed edition as i would get rid for one in an instant

How come? I'd much rather have the signed

[RBK]

tomhills1 said:

rklimek said:

lesbianwednesdays - Agree your prediction could defintely occur - but I think it will be very gradual.

I'm not saying it won't happen, just don't think their will be a mad dash of people offloading.

you see, i agree that there won't be a mad rush all the time it's banksy fanatics toying with their consciences and cashing in. where i think it could fall apart is, when regardless of choosing to sell, they have to sell - due to outside influences. then panic can set in and supply outstrips demand and you run the risk of a crash. it happens in almost every scenario of rapid economic growth, usually known as a price correction but can often include a crash.

my advice would be if that does happen, try and hold tight no matter how bad things get because although in the short-term prices may go below where they should be, in time they will rise and level off.

i'm just basing all this on general trends in other financial sectors, i have no knowledge or history of any sharp rises and crashes in the art world but would love to know of anything along those lines.

basically, what goes up must come down?

This is a very interesting thread - finally some great discussion. Little known fact lesbianwednesdays - the contemporary art market actually follows real-estate market trends.

[tomhills1]

it's not about signed, it's about freeing up the money to aquire other work i wouldn't be able to afford otherwise. if there was an unsigned edition i'd go down that road everytime, so long as the picture on my wall is the same i don't care.

if the values were closer i wouldn't be as fussed but when you can substitute the same image but gain a large amount of money that would enable you to aquire pieces you wouldn't otherwise have any chance of buying, i think the bullet is worth biting.

i'm not superficial

;D

[johnerotten]

yeah that sucks that they only printed signed grin reapers.

i think if you love the image you should keep it. maybe you will luck out with the next release and you can trade that for some unsigned. i think if you aren't about to destroy your credit or get kicked out of your house then sit on it, but only if it won't ruin your life.


how many other prints were released in this fashion?

tomhills1 said:

good point john, every day i look at my reaper and wonder if i could live with chopping it in for a load of unsigned pieces, i curse the fact there is no un-signed edition as i would get rid for one in an instant.

don't think i could live without him now though

[Daniel Silk]

Yeah not much point in having a £10,000 print on ya wall if you cant afford to buy anything else Your gonna be better off selling it and buying 20+ prints or 5+ canvases ;D

[johnerotten]

you can't compare limited edition prints to realestate. there are way more factors affecting the market price of realestate than there is art, the major one being SUPPLY.

in realestate there is a building sector that produces and floods the market.

there are only 150-300 signed versions of the banksy prints. how many of these are in circulation at any given time? right now there are 6 signed and 6 unsigned give or take. the market is flooded this month with morons but what about the other prints?

i think there will be slight fluctuations throughout the year for different reasons, but i can only see it as going up, unless everyone decides banksy sucks and he was a fad. in that case, i don't care because i love his work. of course i don't think banksy sucks or that this will happen.

my point: very limited supply that can not be regenerated, unlike diamonds, which they can just mine more of.

rklimek said:

tomhills1 said:

you see, i agree that there won't be a mad rush all the time it's banksy fanatics toying with their consciences and cashing in. where i think it could fall apart is, when regardless of choosing to sell, they have to sell - due to outside influences. then panic can set in and supply outstrips demand and you run the risk of a crash. it happens in almost every scenario of rapid economic growth, usually known as a price correction but can often include a crash.

my advice would be if that does happen, try and hold tight no matter how bad things get because although in the short-term prices may go below where they should be, in time they will rise and level off.

i'm just basing all this on general trends in other financial sectors, i have no knowledge or history of any sharp rises and crashes in the art world but would love to know of anything along those lines.

basically, what goes up must come down?

This is a very interesting thread - finally some great discussion. Little known fact lesbianwednesdays - the contemporary art market actually follows real-estate market trends.

[johnerotten]

spot on ;D

my sentiments exactly!

i would love to have happy choppers, flag, media, and jack and jill, on my walls. then i could chill for awhile.

i think i'm obsessed.

tomhills1 said:

it's not about signed, it's about freeing up the money to aquire other work i wouldn't be able to afford otherwise. if there was an unsigned edition i'd go down that road everytime, so long as the picture on my wall is the same i don't care.

if the values were closer i wouldn't be as fussed but when you can substitute the same image but gain a large amount of money that would enable you to aquire pieces you wouldn't otherwise have any chance of buying, i think the bullet is worth biting.

i'm not superficial

;D

[stuey09]

But why so much for Barcode? Or is it a case that all the signed prints will be up to this level before too long? A frightening thought.

[RBK]

admin said:

We have seen a bit of a slowdown after Christmas, and many people have picked up a few bargains over that period, but now the values seem to be booming again ;D

Silky - if you compare the majority of older prints (excluding the few I mentioned in one of my above posts) and all the LA prints - unsigned are selling in a very narrow range (signed prints however are a totally different story). I think the only thing that will make this block move is:
1. Another exhibition (believe Banksy vs. Warhol is actually happening).
2. Another huge stunt (which personally I hope Banksy moves away from because he should be defined by his art, and not expected to do this every time.
3. A 'proper' museum show at the Tate - even though I remember him joking about something along the lines it would happen if Tony Blair & Kate Moss were on roller-skates passing out drinks.

Those who feel they have missed the boat with Banksy should remember that any one of the other artists we talk about on here could be just as big as Banksy in a couple of years time ;D Who knows! ;D

While I LOVE some of the artists I've been put onto by this & other fourms, none will be as big as Banksy. Taken from the New Yorker article: Ralph Taylor, a specialist in the Sotheby's contemporary art deparment, said of Banksy, "He is the quickest-growing artist anyone has ever seen of all time."

[RBK]

johnerotten said:

you can't compare limited edition prints to realestate. there are way more factors affecting the market price of realestate than there is art, the major one being SUPPLY.

in realestate there is a building sector that produces and floods the market.

there are only 150-300 signed versions of the banksy prints. how many of these are in circulation at any given time? right now there are 6 signed and 6 unsigned give or take. the market is flooded this month with morons but what about the other prints?

i think there will be slight fluctuations throughout the year for different reasons, but i can only see it as going up, unless everyone decides banksy sucks and he was a fad. in that case, i don't care because i love his work. of course i don't think banksy sucks or that this will happen.

my point: very limited supply that can not be regenerated, unlike diamonds, which they can just mine more of.

rklimek said:

This is a very interesting thread - finally some great discussion. Little known fact lesbianwednesdays - the contemporary art market actually follows real-estate market trends.

I'm not comparing real estate to limited edition prints at all johnerotten. There has been numerous scholarly writing proving the contemporary art market mirrors the trends exhibited in the real esate market.

[numusic]

tomhills1 said:

rklimek said:

lesbianwednesdays - Agree your prediction could defintely occur - but I think it will be very gradual.

I'm not saying it won't happen, just don't think their will be a mad dash of people offloading.

i'm just basing all this on general trends in other financial sectors, i have no knowledge or history of any sharp rises and crashes in the art world but would love to know of anything along those lines.

Graf based work in the 80's when it crossed over into galleries went for tens of thousands of dollars...only a very few stayed the course.. people were left with a shit load of pretty worthless canvasses after it imploded and crashed. Same for art in general.. but the new stuff was hit really hard after being over hyped.

Check this article, quite long, but a very interesting read..

nymag.com/arts/art/features/16542/.

[RBK]

I also recommend you guys read: Collecting Contemporary by Adam Lindeman

www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/3822849391/ref=s9_asin_title_1-2288_g1/102-5181945-3628948?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0SR24PD189W7F9VKX6ZV&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240301&pf_rd_i=507846

[Daniel Silk]

I think the reason for the signed print values being much more varied than the unsigned can also be down to so few coming up for sale that people just dont know what they should bid up to Most of us on here know ruffly what the values are of most unsigned Banksy pieces to within £50 or so, but when it comes to signed pieces its easy to be as much as £4,000 out in the current market