Banksy • Barcode Print

[colinr]

Hi all,

this is currently being offered at auction by Roseberys but it’s saying ‘DN, duplicate number issued as a rare result of Pictures on Walls losing count while numbering’ Sorry not very au fait with this but is that legit? Are there other examples of this?

just trying to build up some knowledge!

Thanks

[Moniker Projects]

Nov 16, 2023 12:25:51 GMT 1 colinr said:

Hi all,

this is currently being offered at auction by Roseberys but it’s saying ‘DN, duplicate number issued as a rare result of Pictures on Walls losing count while numbering’ Sorry not very au fait with this but is that legit? Are there other examples of this?

just trying to build up some knowledge!

Thanks

Yeah, much more common with the earlier prints. Had a signed LIITA that was numbered DN.

[Majestic]

Also owned a Weston Super Mare which was an AP/DN.

Very common as mentioned.

[Minecrafter]

The advantage of being an anonymous artist , a duplicate number mistake shouldn't even happen once let alone on so many different print releases.

Given what happened at Sotheby's in 2018 there was no error involved in this duplicate numbers. Just pure greed.

I wonder how many duplicate numbers are out there ... 

[Dice]

Nov 16, 2023 15:11:20 GMT 1 Minecrafter said:

The advantage of being an anonymous artist , a duplicate number mistake shouldn't even happen once let alone on so many different print releases.

Given what happened at Sotheby's in 2018 there was no error involved in this duplicate numbers. Just pure greed.

I wonder how many duplicate numbers are out there ... 

the DNs came about when COAs were appplied for and then they realised the coa had already been issued for that number. That’s what happened to me anyway. They weren’t made at the start. Could be purposeful I suppose but we’ll never know

[colinr]

So does that mean there’s 2 or more of the same number or more than the 600 released?

[Happy Shopper]

Nov 16, 2023 15:16:32 GMT 1 colinr said:

So does that mean there’s 2 or more of the same number or more than the 600 released?

Yes, 2 of the same number.

So, there's very possibly 601, or even a few more. Assuming they sold all 600 (actually 601), and only realised the mistake years later.

Overall numbers are probably balanced by the number accidentally destroyed, thrown away, when they weren't considered so valuable.

[colinr]

Thanks to all for responding, explains what has happened.

Colin

[Wanchope]

They were on all sorts of highs when producing and numbering back then so absolutely rife for mistakes to be made ( deliberately or not)

[LJCal]

Nov 16, 2023 15:11:20 GMT 1 Minecrafter said:

The advantage of being an anonymous artist , a duplicate number mistake shouldn't even happen once let alone on so many different print releases.

Given what happened at Sotheby's in 2018 there was no error involved in this duplicate numbers. Just pure greed.

I wonder how many duplicate numbers are out there ... 

You do know that half the staff at POW back then were either on smack or pissed right? I'm surprised they managed to turn up to work with both shoes on. You never see DNs after 2007.

[Deleted]

Nov 16, 2023 15:11:20 GMT 1 Minecrafter said:

The advantage of being an anonymous artist , a duplicate number mistake shouldn't even happen once let alone on so many different print releases.

Given what happened at Sotheby's in 2018 there was no error involved in this duplicate numbers. Just pure greed.

I wonder how many duplicate numbers are out there ... 

I don't feel there was ever anything untoward regarding prints being marked DN or AP/DN. It was a way to solve earlier mistakes. They couldn't increase the edition number size, so this was the solution. 
No part of me believes the artist would mark extra prints DN to sell to make extra money.
5/6 years ago i got a phone call from one of the PC office staff regarding an AP/DN. They'd been asked by one of the former directors to contact me as they were having trouble resolving an issue with a client. The client had a signed Love Rat but it had now been marked AP/DN and they were concerned it would be worth less. PC asked could i speak to them as an intermediary and forwarded the client my tel no. She said she was told by the PC member that the print was much rarer now that its not part of the main edition, that there were very few DNs and they were worth a lot more. The client didn't believe them. I spoke to the staff member about DNs AP/DNs regarding how many there was and the desrirability of DNs vs main edition, I didn't believe they knew what they were talking about either.
I explained to the client the reasoning behind the DNs and that they were part of the Banksy story rather than later additions. I had sold quite a few so was able to give examples of past sold prints marked DN and prints sold AP/DN as comparables. At the time DNs sold for a similar price to the main edition although the majority would choose a main edition over a DN. The AP/DNs picked up a premium, circa 10% at the time and more would be tempted by the AP/DN than the DN if choosing over a main edition but ultimately they are an extension of the edition. The extension is probably balanced out by prints that were lost/thrown out etc when they were cheap. Once she had the facts she was comfortable. 
The issue with the client wasn't really the print being marked, that was easily resolved with a phone call. The issue was that the client had no confidence in the PC staff member or what they were being told. 
That staff member is now a director at PC steering the ship.
There are actual problems that need addressed. The idea that the artist is marking extra prints DN to profit off isn't one of them.

[The Italian One]

Nov 17, 2023 8:55:00 GMT 1 @castlegalleryltd said:

Nov 16, 2023 15:11:20 GMT 1 Minecrafter said:

The advantage of being an anonymous artist , a duplicate number mistake shouldn't even happen once let alone on so many different print releases.

Given what happened at Sotheby's in 2018 there was no error involved in this duplicate numbers. Just pure greed.

I wonder how many duplicate numbers are out there ... 

I don't feel there was ever anything untoward regarding prints being marked DN or AP/DN. It was a way to solve earlier mistakes. They couldn't increase the edition number size, so this was the solution. 
No part of me believes the artist would mark extra prints DN to sell to make extra money.
5/6 years ago i got a phone call from one of the PC office staff regarding an AP/DN. They'd been asked by one of the former directors to contact me as they were having trouble resolving an issue with a client. The client had a signed Love Rat but it had now been marked AP/DN and they were concerned it would be worth less. PC asked could i speak to them as an intermediary and forwarded the client my tel no. She said she was told by the PC member that the print was much rarer now that its not part of the main edition, that there were very few DNs and they were worth a lot more. The client didn't believe them. I spoke to the staff member about DNs AP/DNs regarding how many there was and the desrirability of DNs vs main edition, I didn't believe they knew what they were talking about either.
I explained to the client the reasoning behind the DNs and that they were part of the Banksy story rather than later additions. I had sold quite a few so was able to give examples of past sold prints marked DN and prints sold AP/DN as comparables. At the time DNs sold for a similar price to the main edition although the majority would choose a main edition over a DN. The AP/DNs picked up a premium, circa 10% at the time and more would be tempted by the AP/DN than the DN if choosing over a main edition but ultimately they are an extension of the edition. The extension is probably balanced out by prints that were lost/thrown out etc when they were cheap. Once she had the facts she was comfortable. 
The issue with the client wasn't really the print being marked, that was easily resolved with a phone call. The issue was that the client had no confidence in the PC staff member or what they were being told. 
That staff member is now a director at PC steering the ship.
There are actual problems that need addressed. The idea that the artist is marking extra prints DN to profit off isn't one of them.

it is always a pleasure reading your post,
it is a shame PC is managed so badly lately, do you know why?
beside PC director, think also Banksy doesn't care anymore about collectors

[Deleted]

Nov 17, 2023 9:13:20 GMT 1 The Italian One said:

Nov 17, 2023 8:55:00 GMT 1 @castlegalleryltd said:

I don't feel there was ever anything untoward regarding prints being marked DN or AP/DN. It was a way to solve earlier mistakes. They couldn't increase the edition number size, so this was the solution. 
No part of me believes the artist would mark extra prints DN to sell to make extra money.
5/6 years ago i got a phone call from one of the PC office staff regarding an AP/DN. They'd been asked by one of the former directors to contact me as they were having trouble resolving an issue with a client. The client had a signed Love Rat but it had now been marked AP/DN and they were concerned it would be worth less. PC asked could i speak to them as an intermediary and forwarded the client my tel no. She said she was told by the PC member that the print was much rarer now that its not part of the main edition, that there were very few DNs and they were worth a lot more. The client didn't believe them. I spoke to the staff member about DNs AP/DNs regarding how many there was and the desrirability of DNs vs main edition, I didn't believe they knew what they were talking about either.
I explained to the client the reasoning behind the DNs and that they were part of the Banksy story rather than later additions. I had sold quite a few so was able to give examples of past sold prints marked DN and prints sold AP/DN as comparables. At the time DNs sold for a similar price to the main edition although the majority would choose a main edition over a DN. The AP/DNs picked up a premium, circa 10% at the time and more would be tempted by the AP/DN than the DN if choosing over a main edition but ultimately they are an extension of the edition. The extension is probably balanced out by prints that were lost/thrown out etc when they were cheap. Once she had the facts she was comfortable. 
The issue with the client wasn't really the print being marked, that was easily resolved with a phone call. The issue was that the client had no confidence in the PC staff member or what they were being told. 
That staff member is now a director at PC steering the ship.
There are actual problems that need addressed. The idea that the artist is marking extra prints DN to profit off isn't one of them.

it is always a pleasure reading your post,
it is a shame PC is managed so badly lately, do you know why?
beside PC director, think also Banksy doesn't care anymore about collectors

In short, the former directors understood the dichotomy of the market and how to control it in the best interests of the artist and his market/collectors. When they left they took years of knowledge and business acumen with them. 2 of the office staff were made directors, alongside a close family member to run things. 
The current management appear to be focused on making the artists/their lives as easy as possible, but without consideration for anyone else and the impact their decisions make on the market/collectors.
I'm not sure the artist ever cared that much about the collectors/market tbh but only he can answer that. That was never a great concern for me while there were individuals involved who were looking after his and the markets best interests. It is a concern if the people appointed who are supposed to care about the collectors/market dont. I dont know if its this or just purely lack of knowledge/experience. Whichever, they're doing a poor job representing the artist.

[LJCal]

Yeah been a shit show since Simon left, don’t see it improving anytime soon. It’s really not a hugely difficult job for a team with a bit of experience.

[The Italian One]

Nov 17, 2023 19:00:59 GMT 1 LJCal said:

Yeah been a shit show since Simon left, don’t see it improving anytime soon. It’s really not a hugely difficult job for a team with a bit of experience.

do you know why he left?

[seagezini]

After a Banksy Barcode, wouldn't mind a Happy Choppers or Flying Copper too, let us know if anyone is willing to part.

Price wise roughly around recent auction results...

[DrWhite]

Does anyone have a current estimate on the value of an u/s barcode with COA ?

Thanks

[artlike]

In mint condition around £15k - £ 17k

[Charlie Bronson]

Aug 27, 2024 9:37:20 GMT 1 artlike said:

In mint condition around £15k - £ 17k

Really? Where are you finding them that cheap? I haven’t seen one under 20k. 

[LJCal]

Aug 27, 2024 22:08:35 GMT 1 Charlie Bronson said:

Aug 27, 2024 9:37:20 GMT 1 artlike said:

In mint condition around £15k - £ 17k

Really? Where are you finding them that cheap? I haven’t seen one under 20k. 

It's not really a question of finding them at that price for sale, there's a big spread between what sellers are asking and what buyers will pay. Most vaguely sensible sellers right now will be asking high teens low twenties, most buyers will want to pay mid teens unless they're desperate or don't know the market. So I think the valuation above is pretty much spot on. If you're selling right I would expect to net £15-18k, if you're buying probably expect to pay £17-20k, all comes down to circumstances of buyers and sellers and who blinks first. Another point to note is that most buyers and sellers will deal through middle men (be it auction, broker or gallery) and that can add a grand or two either side of the trade in costs, so that will erode what sellers receive and increase what buyers pay. 

[Urban Art Store]

Evening.

Looking to buy;

Morons Sepia by Banksy - signed

Barcode by Banksy - unsigned

We have 2 separate buyers with proven funds.

Please pm.

[withnail69]

I have one selling at Christies starting in 5 days

onlineonly.christies.com/s/contemporary-edition/banksy-57/232047?ldp_breadcrumb=back

[The Italian One]

woowww that is a beauty!

[Johnny Sarcasm]

Some punchy estimates in that auction given state of market but let’s hope for some strong numbers