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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by Daniel Silk on Jul 8, 2008 12:25:10 GMT 1, www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/07/08/bamarket108.xml
Colin Gleadell rounds up the latest developments in the art market
Art sales
There is little hope now that anyone removing works by the graffiti artist Banksy from public locations will be able to sell them. Last week at London's Bloomsbury Auctions three examples were offered, but none came with a certificate of authentication from Pest Control, the new committee that authenticates all works by Banksy.
At the auction, a salvaged work on plywood from Liverpool was estimated to fetch £40,000 to £60,000 and had an old certificate of authenticity from Banksy's dealer Steve Lazarides, but none from Pest Control, and was unsold.
Another salvaged work on ceramic tiles, estimated at £15,000 to £20,000, was similarly unsold. A third work on concrete blocks, weighing 2.5 tonnes and estimated at £30,000 to £50,000, had been the backdrop for a photo shoot for the band Blur and used on the cover of the first issue of the Observer's Music Monthly magazine, and was withdrawn from the sale. Pest Control - and presumably Banksy - believe these works are made for specific sites and do not want them removed for commercial resale.
• Orientalist art continued its upward trajectory in the market last week when a sale at Christie's realised a record £18 million, £10 million more than the previous record set by Sotheby's last year. Several individual artists' records were broken, the most prominent being the £2.1 million paid for an 1876 portrait, Veiled Circassian Beauty (above) by the French artist Jean-Léon Gérôme, which had been estimated at £400,000 to £600,000.
Gérôme painted it after one of several trips to Turkey, where the painting is now most likely destined. Eighteen years ago it had fetched £324,000 at auction. The Orientalist sale made up just half of Christie's regular 19th-century European art sale, but the second half did not do so well, realising just £3.3 million. Nearly half of the lots were unsold.
• Often, when artists die, the market takes time to assess their work and prices can slide. However, for Beryl Cook, one of Britain's most popular artists, who died in May, the reverse has happened.
At Bonhams last week, two paintings by Cook, bought for about £2,000 in the early Eighties, soared past estimates and her previous record of £28,800 to sell for £66,000 and £69,600. The artist's dealer, Jess Wilder of London's Portal Gallery, was staggered: "The highest price we ever sold for in the gallery was £40,000." A retrospective exhibition of Cook's works will be staged at the University of Plymouth in November.
• Holidaymakers heading for the Suffolk coast this week could do worse when sheltering from the rain than head to Snape Maltings for its 41st annual antiques and fine art fair. From Thursday until Sunday, the Essex gallery Wish You Were Here has devoted its stand to the ribald humour of the saucy comic postcards of Donald McGill, who was prosecuted for obscenity in 1954. More than 60 drawings by McGill are for sale with prices ranging from £500 to £15,000. CG
www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/07/08/bamarket108.xmlColin Gleadell rounds up the latest developments in the art market Art sales There is little hope now that anyone removing works by the graffiti artist Banksy from public locations will be able to sell them. Last week at London's Bloomsbury Auctions three examples were offered, but none came with a certificate of authentication from Pest Control, the new committee that authenticates all works by Banksy. At the auction, a salvaged work on plywood from Liverpool was estimated to fetch £40,000 to £60,000 and had an old certificate of authenticity from Banksy's dealer Steve Lazarides, but none from Pest Control, and was unsold. Another salvaged work on ceramic tiles, estimated at £15,000 to £20,000, was similarly unsold. A third work on concrete blocks, weighing 2.5 tonnes and estimated at £30,000 to £50,000, had been the backdrop for a photo shoot for the band Blur and used on the cover of the first issue of the Observer's Music Monthly magazine, and was withdrawn from the sale. Pest Control - and presumably Banksy - believe these works are made for specific sites and do not want them removed for commercial resale. • Orientalist art continued its upward trajectory in the market last week when a sale at Christie's realised a record £18 million, £10 million more than the previous record set by Sotheby's last year. Several individual artists' records were broken, the most prominent being the £2.1 million paid for an 1876 portrait, Veiled Circassian Beauty (above) by the French artist Jean-Léon Gérôme, which had been estimated at £400,000 to £600,000. Gérôme painted it after one of several trips to Turkey, where the painting is now most likely destined. Eighteen years ago it had fetched £324,000 at auction. The Orientalist sale made up just half of Christie's regular 19th-century European art sale, but the second half did not do so well, realising just £3.3 million. Nearly half of the lots were unsold. • Often, when artists die, the market takes time to assess their work and prices can slide. However, for Beryl Cook, one of Britain's most popular artists, who died in May, the reverse has happened. At Bonhams last week, two paintings by Cook, bought for about £2,000 in the early Eighties, soared past estimates and her previous record of £28,800 to sell for £66,000 and £69,600. The artist's dealer, Jess Wilder of London's Portal Gallery, was staggered: "The highest price we ever sold for in the gallery was £40,000." A retrospective exhibition of Cook's works will be staged at the University of Plymouth in November. • Holidaymakers heading for the Suffolk coast this week could do worse when sheltering from the rain than head to Snape Maltings for its 41st annual antiques and fine art fair. From Thursday until Sunday, the Essex gallery Wish You Were Here has devoted its stand to the ribald humour of the saucy comic postcards of Donald McGill, who was prosecuted for obscenity in 1954. More than 60 drawings by McGill are for sale with prices ranging from £500 to £15,000. CG
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romanywg
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October 2006
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by romanywg on Jul 8, 2008 13:05:56 GMT 1, That's good news to hear.
That's good news to hear.
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Pupster
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by Pupster on Jul 8, 2008 17:51:19 GMT 1, Interesting Thread....
Interesting Thread....
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funyoung
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by funyoung on Jul 8, 2008 18:33:13 GMT 1, Very bad to hear.
"Pest Control - and presumably Banksy - believe these works are made for specific sites and do not want them removed for commercial resale."
ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold.
Very bad to hear.
"Pest Control - and presumably Banksy - believe these works are made for specific sites and do not want them removed for commercial resale."
ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold.
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lee3
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 18:40:48 GMT 1, >>>Last week at London's Bloomsbury Auctions three examples were offered, but none came with a certificate of authentication from Pest Control, the new committee that authenticates all works by Banksy.<<<
I think it's wonderful that they are not authenticating the street pieces but I've head plenty of rumors about that particular Bloomsbury sale though I won't comment on them publicly. If you go to the sale results however, you will notice an ASTONISHINGLY high number of lots that failed to find a buyer. In fact, it was the vast majority of lots that were bought in which is something we haven't seen in this market for over a decade. I'm surprised there hasn't been discussion about it and that it seems to have gone under the radar but that sale (from my vantage point) is NOT a fair representation of any artist that was offered within it.
>>>Last week at London's Bloomsbury Auctions three examples were offered, but none came with a certificate of authentication from Pest Control, the new committee that authenticates all works by Banksy.<<<
I think it's wonderful that they are not authenticating the street pieces but I've head plenty of rumors about that particular Bloomsbury sale though I won't comment on them publicly. If you go to the sale results however, you will notice an ASTONISHINGLY high number of lots that failed to find a buyer. In fact, it was the vast majority of lots that were bought in which is something we haven't seen in this market for over a decade. I'm surprised there hasn't been discussion about it and that it seems to have gone under the radar but that sale (from my vantage point) is NOT a fair representation of any artist that was offered within it.
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seidbereit
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by seidbereit on Jul 8, 2008 18:41:22 GMT 1, Very bad to hear. "Pest Control - and presumably Banksy - believe these works are made for specific sites and do not want them removed for commercial resale." ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold.
Not quite sure what you mean by "playing God on what gets sold", but I would have thought it was a very good thing myself. PC's refusal to provide a COA is obviously designed to discourage removal/dismantling of street pieces for sale and would appear to be quite effective. Hopefully a lot fewer street works will be removed in the future and at some point, maybe none at all.
Very bad to hear. "Pest Control - and presumably Banksy - believe these works are made for specific sites and do not want them removed for commercial resale." ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold. Not quite sure what you mean by "playing God on what gets sold", but I would have thought it was a very good thing myself. PC's refusal to provide a COA is obviously designed to discourage removal/dismantling of street pieces for sale and would appear to be quite effective. Hopefully a lot fewer street works will be removed in the future and at some point, maybe none at all. |
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lee3
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 18:43:41 GMT 1, >>>ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold. <<<
No, they simply have stated publicly that they are NOT going to authenticate them which will discourage people from removing them and will certainly disuade people from passing fakes since their value will be so much less. The only people that I can understand that would be upset by this policy are people with a non authenticated street piece hanging in their home or forgers.
>>>ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold. <<<
No, they simply have stated publicly that they are NOT going to authenticate them which will discourage people from removing them and will certainly disuade people from passing fakes since their value will be so much less. The only people that I can understand that would be upset by this policy are people with a non authenticated street piece hanging in their home or forgers.
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by felix on Jul 8, 2008 18:47:28 GMT 1, I don't know the first thing about auctions - but it seems Bloomsbury are pretty terrible in choosing what they put in theirs, the Banksy pieces were terrible and in another auction of theirs they have POW edition Faile Bunny Girl and captivating prints??
I don't know the first thing about auctions - but it seems Bloomsbury are pretty terrible in choosing what they put in theirs, the Banksy pieces were terrible and in another auction of theirs they have POW edition Faile Bunny Girl and captivating prints??
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lee3
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 18:49:47 GMT 1, For those keeping score at home, I just looked at the results again and only 27 out of 94 lots found a buyer. That is the biggest failure I've ever seen around contemporary art in the time I've been keeping track.
You need a login but for those that have one:
www.bloomsburyauctions.com/auction.php?pageID=1&setPerPage=120&sale=654
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by eddiedangerous on Jul 8, 2008 18:57:52 GMT 1, >>>Last week at London's Bloomsbury Auctions three examples were offered, but none came with a certificate of authentication from Pest Control, the new committee that authenticates all works by Banksy.<<< I think it's wonderful that they are not authenticating the street pieces but I've head plenty of rumors about that particular Bloomsbury sale though I won't comment on them publicly. If you go to the sale results however, you will notice an ASTONISHINGLY high number of lots that failed to find a buyer. In fact, it was the vast majority of lots that were bought in which is not something we haven't seen in this market for over a decade. I'm surprised there hasn't been discussion about it and that it seems to have gone under the radar but that sale (from my vantage point) is NOT a fair representation of any artist that was offered within it.
you also said:
Posted by lee3 on Today at 6:49pm
For those keeping score at home, I just looked at the results again and only 27 out of 94 lots found a buyer. That is the biggest failure I've ever seen around contemporary art in the time I've been keeping track.
An element of this is being discussed over here, or a possible other answer as to why...
banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=22631&page=1#333430
>>>Last week at London's Bloomsbury Auctions three examples were offered, but none came with a certificate of authentication from Pest Control, the new committee that authenticates all works by Banksy.<<< I think it's wonderful that they are not authenticating the street pieces but I've head plenty of rumors about that particular Bloomsbury sale though I won't comment on them publicly. If you go to the sale results however, you will notice an ASTONISHINGLY high number of lots that failed to find a buyer. In fact, it was the vast majority of lots that were bought in which is not something we haven't seen in this market for over a decade. I'm surprised there hasn't been discussion about it and that it seems to have gone under the radar but that sale (from my vantage point) is NOT a fair representation of any artist that was offered within it. you also said: Posted by lee3 on Today at 6:49pm For those keeping score at home, I just looked at the results again and only 27 out of 94 lots found a buyer. That is the biggest failure I've ever seen around contemporary art in the time I've been keeping track. An element of this is being discussed over here, or a possible other answer as to why... banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=22631&page=1#333430 |
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lee3
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 19:03:17 GMT 1, >>>An element of this is being discussed over here, or a possible other answer as to why...<<<
I don't believe the Bloomsbury results being that dismal had anything major to do with the credit crunch and I'll cite the spectacular results at Chritie's and Sotheby's a mere 3 and 4 days later respectively at both their evening and day sales. Both of the primary houses had wonderful results. This was a failure on Bloomsbury's part and i've heard 5 different reasons as to why and would prefer to avoid speculting in a public forum.
If it was a credit crunch, we would have seen similar action across the board which was not the case.
>>>An element of this is being discussed over here, or a possible other answer as to why...<<<
I don't believe the Bloomsbury results being that dismal had anything major to do with the credit crunch and I'll cite the spectacular results at Chritie's and Sotheby's a mere 3 and 4 days later respectively at both their evening and day sales. Both of the primary houses had wonderful results. This was a failure on Bloomsbury's part and i've heard 5 different reasons as to why and would prefer to avoid speculting in a public forum.
If it was a credit crunch, we would have seen similar action across the board which was not the case.
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by eddiedangerous on Jul 8, 2008 19:09:14 GMT 1, >>>An element of this is being discussed over here, or a possible other answer as to why...<<< I don't believe the Bloomsbury results being that dismal had anything major to do with the credit crunch and I'll cite the spectacular results at Chritie's and Sotheby's a mere 3 and 4 days later respectively at both their evening and day sales. Both of the primary houses had wonderful results. This was a failure on Bloomsbury's part and [glow=red,2,300]i've heard 5 different reasons as to why and would prefer to avoid speculting in a public forum[/glow]. If it was a credit crunch, we would have seen similar action across the board which was not the case.
not necessarily, as in the recession only the strong survive, and bloomsbury might begin to get shunned for the very reason that they have things like captivating and bunny girl in the sale, much of which seems to be sub 10k (see link).
coincidentally lee3 why the hell do you want to discuss this topic ( the b auctions) when you aren't prepared to express yourself or speculate, er i mean ...whats friggin the point of posting you numpty?
>>>An element of this is being discussed over here, or a possible other answer as to why...<<< I don't believe the Bloomsbury results being that dismal had anything major to do with the credit crunch and I'll cite the spectacular results at Chritie's and Sotheby's a mere 3 and 4 days later respectively at both their evening and day sales. Both of the primary houses had wonderful results. This was a failure on Bloomsbury's part and [glow=red,2,300]i've heard 5 different reasons as to why and would prefer to avoid speculting in a public forum[/glow]. If it was a credit crunch, we would have seen similar action across the board which was not the case. not necessarily, as in the recession only the strong survive, and bloomsbury might begin to get shunned for the very reason that they have things like captivating and bunny girl in the sale, much of which seems to be sub 10k (see link). coincidentally lee3 why the hell do you want to discuss this topic ( the b auctions) when you aren't prepared to express yourself or speculate, er i mean ...whats friggin the point of posting you numpty? |
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lee3
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 19:20:53 GMT 1, >>> much of which seems to be sub 10k (see link).<<
the vast majority of work that cost over 10k in the bloomsbury auctions went unsold- look at Fontana and Warhol.
>>>coincidentally lee3 why the hell do you want to discuss this topic ( the b auctions) when you aren't prepared to express yourself or speculate, er i mean ...whats friggin the point of posting?<<<
Eddie, why would I not want to discuss an auction that failed to find buyers on over 70% of the lots? That's quite the screw up. That said, I will NOT get myself involved in any slander discussion by regurgitating the same rumors that were told to me when I have no knowledge of the facts themselves other than the results. I can say without hesitation that many of the lots have fairly high estimates from my vantage point but nothing that would ever suggest a 70% buy in ratio. It is an intesting disccussion as to why and I think I've made myself clear that I do not buy the credit crunch argument for this sale; similarly, i think any intelligent individual can appreciate my position in that I don't want to cross the speculation line where someone can point a finger at me for being slanderous.
>>> much of which seems to be sub 10k (see link).<< the vast majority of work that cost over 10k in the bloomsbury auctions went unsold- look at Fontana and Warhol. >>>coincidentally lee3 why the hell do you want to discuss this topic ( the b auctions) when you aren't prepared to express yourself or speculate, er i mean ...whats friggin the point of posting? <<< Eddie, why would I not want to discuss an auction that failed to find buyers on over 70% of the lots? That's quite the screw up. That said, I will NOT get myself involved in any slander discussion by regurgitating the same rumors that were told to me when I have no knowledge of the facts themselves other than the results. I can say without hesitation that many of the lots have fairly high estimates from my vantage point but nothing that would ever suggest a 70% buy in ratio. It is an intesting disccussion as to why and I think I've made myself clear that I do not buy the credit crunch argument for this sale; similarly, i think any intelligent individual can appreciate my position in that I don't want to cross the speculation line where someone can point a finger at me for being slanderous. |
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by eddiedangerous on Jul 8, 2008 19:34:41 GMT 1, >>> much of which seems to be sub 10k (see link).<< the vast majority of work that cost over 10k in the bloomsbury auctions went unsold- look at Fontana and Warhol. >>>coincidentally lee3 why the hell do you want to discuss this topic ( the b auctions) when you aren't prepared to express yourself or speculate, er i mean ...whats friggin the point of posting? <<< Eddie, why would I not want to discuss an auction that failed to find buyers on over 70% of the lots? That's quite the screw up. That said, I will NOT get myself involved in any slander discussion by regurgitating the same rumors that were told to me when I have no knowledge of the facts themselves other than the results. I can say without hesitation that many of the lots have fairly high estimates from my vantage point but nothing that would ever suggest a 70% buy in ratio. It is an intesting disccussion as to why and I think I've made myself clear that I do not buy the credit crunch argument for this sale; similarly, i think any intelligent individual can appreciate my position in that I don't want to cross the speculation line where someone can point a finger at me for being slanderous.
you also said earlier...
"you will notice an ASTONISHINGLY high number of lots that failed to find a buyer. In fact, it was the vast majority of lots that were bought in which is not something we haven't seen in this market for over a decade. I'm surprised there hasn't been discussion"
I AM TRYING TO DISCUSS IT WITH YOU BUT AS YOU REPETITIVELY SAY THINGS LIKE:
any intelligent individual can appreciate my position in that I don't want to cross the speculation line where someone can point a finger at me for being slanderous
THIS ISN'T THE HIGH COURTS OLD CHAP ITS A PLACE FOR LITTLE TRUTH AND PLENTY PLENTY SPECULATION....
EITHER DROP YOUR MOTHERLOAD ALL OVER US AND STOP BEING SO PUBLICALLY CLOAK AND DAGGER.........
OR GO HOME!!!!! ;D ;D
(P.S i'm intelligent but i sure as hell cant work out who's gonna come knocking on your door calling you slanderous for discussing something on a forum, if you phrase it correctly)
>>> much of which seems to be sub 10k (see link).<< the vast majority of work that cost over 10k in the bloomsbury auctions went unsold- look at Fontana and Warhol. >>>coincidentally lee3 why the hell do you want to discuss this topic ( the b auctions) when you aren't prepared to express yourself or speculate, er i mean ...whats friggin the point of posting? <<< Eddie, why would I not want to discuss an auction that failed to find buyers on over 70% of the lots? That's quite the screw up. That said, I will NOT get myself involved in any slander discussion by regurgitating the same rumors that were told to me when I have no knowledge of the facts themselves other than the results. I can say without hesitation that many of the lots have fairly high estimates from my vantage point but nothing that would ever suggest a 70% buy in ratio. It is an intesting disccussion as to why and I think I've made myself clear that I do not buy the credit crunch argument for this sale; similarly, i think any intelligent individual can appreciate my position in that I don't want to cross the speculation line where someone can point a finger at me for being slanderous. you also said earlier... "you will notice an ASTONISHINGLY high number of lots that failed to find a buyer. In fact, it was the vast majority of lots that were bought in which is not something we haven't seen in this market for over a decade. I'm surprised there hasn't been discussion" I AM TRYING TO DISCUSS IT WITH YOU BUT AS YOU REPETITIVELY SAY THINGS LIKE: any intelligent individual can appreciate my position in that I don't want to cross the speculation line where someone can point a finger at me for being slanderous THIS ISN'T THE HIGH COURTS OLD CHAP ITS A PLACE FOR LITTLE TRUTH AND PLENTY PLENTY SPECULATION.... EITHER DROP YOUR MOTHERLOAD ALL OVER US AND STOP BEING SO PUBLICALLY CLOAK AND DAGGER......... OR GO HOME!!!!! ;D ;D (P.S i'm intelligent but i sure as hell cant work out who's gonna come knocking on your door calling you slanderous for discussing something on a forum, if you phrase it correctly) |
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lee3
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November 2009
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 19:48:34 GMT 1, >>>OR GO HOME!!!!! (P.S i'm intelligent but i sure as hell cant work out who's gonna come knocking on your door calling you slanderous for discussing something on a forum, if you phrase it correctly)<<<
I will politely bow out of this thread. I am particularly sensitive to any topic online that could be a nuisance offline and even though the risk is small, I'd prefer not to take it. I think it is worth anyones time to register at that site and review the results for yourself as they speak much larger than any word in this thread.
Back to the first post of this thread, I disagree with the aritcles first sentance because they are basing that statement on the results in this sale. There will be many Banksy's stripped from the public that sell in the future (and many fakes too) but the price will more than likely be underwhelming.
>>>OR GO HOME!!!!! (P.S i'm intelligent but i sure as hell cant work out who's gonna come knocking on your door calling you slanderous for discussing something on a forum, if you phrase it correctly)<<<
I will politely bow out of this thread. I am particularly sensitive to any topic online that could be a nuisance offline and even though the risk is small, I'd prefer not to take it. I think it is worth anyones time to register at that site and review the results for yourself as they speak much larger than any word in this thread.
Back to the first post of this thread, I disagree with the aritcles first sentance because they are basing that statement on the results in this sale. There will be many Banksy's stripped from the public that sell in the future (and many fakes too) but the price will more than likely be underwhelming.
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guest2
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by guest2 on Jul 8, 2008 19:51:46 GMT 1, i'm sure pest control authenticated a piece on metal from the blur think tank series at bonhams earlier in the year. And i tend to agree with lee, bloomsbury have not had great lots in the past and is probably not the place for high end banksys - pest control certifictes or no PC certs. Seems strange that a so called street piece has steve laz authenticity yet PC would not. I always though steve had the same policy as PC regarding street pieces. A reporting mistake maybe?
i'm sure pest control authenticated a piece on metal from the blur think tank series at bonhams earlier in the year. And i tend to agree with lee, bloomsbury have not had great lots in the past and is probably not the place for high end banksys - pest control certifictes or no PC certs. Seems strange that a so called street piece has steve laz authenticity yet PC would not. I always though steve had the same policy as PC regarding street pieces. A reporting mistake maybe?
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lee3
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 19:54:31 GMT 1, >>>i'm sure pest control authenticated a piece on metal from the blur think tank series at bonhams earlier in the year<<<
That piece was not stripped from the public; it was part of the work he did for Blur. There are many Banksy's on metal as a medium that were not removed from public spaces.
>>>i'm sure pest control authenticated a piece on metal from the blur think tank series at bonhams earlier in the year<<<
That piece was not stripped from the public; it was part of the work he did for Blur. There are many Banksy's on metal as a medium that were not removed from public spaces.
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carl
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by carl on Jul 8, 2008 20:01:05 GMT 1,
Wow! Now that is good news
Wow! Now that is good news |
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guest2
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by guest2 on Jul 8, 2008 20:07:55 GMT 1, >>>i'm sure pest control authenticated a piece on metal from the blur think tank series at bonhams earlier in the year<<< That piece was not stripped from the public; it was part of the work he did for Blur. There are many Banksy's on metal as a medium that were not removed from public spaces.
just logged onto the site, the work was a commission so not for the public according to the details of the lot. I'd say this is abit of a grey area for pest control. looked at the street piece also, def seems strange that lazinc authenticated that if they did.
"Provenance:
Private Collection, England.
This work was commissioned by The Observer and used as a backdrop for a photo shoot of the band Blur for the launch issue of The Observer Magazine Music Monthly, September 2003 and illustrated on the front cover".
>>>i'm sure pest control authenticated a piece on metal from the blur think tank series at bonhams earlier in the year<<< That piece was not stripped from the public; it was part of the work he did for Blur. There are many Banksy's on metal as a medium that were not removed from public spaces. just logged onto the site, the work was a commission so not for the public according to the details of the lot. I'd say this is abit of a grey area for pest control. looked at the street piece also, def seems strange that lazinc authenticated that if they did. "Provenance: Private Collection, England. This work was commissioned by The Observer and used as a backdrop for a photo shoot of the band Blur for the launch issue of The Observer Magazine Music Monthly, September 2003 and illustrated on the front cover". |
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casualt
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by casualt on Jul 8, 2008 20:27:30 GMT 1, what does this mean for those that want to sell 'street' pieces by banksy that they have acquired in the past. will they no longer be able to sell via auction houses?
i have a friend who is trying to sell banksy's 'gallery attendant' at Mount Street Galleries - he acquired this piece legitimately from the owner of the building that the temporary hoardings were on so this piece was never due to be exhibited on the street forever.
do all other expensive artworks for sale in the world come with COA's?
what does this mean for those that want to sell 'street' pieces by banksy that they have acquired in the past. will they no longer be able to sell via auction houses? i have a friend who is trying to sell banksy's 'gallery attendant' at Mount Street Galleries - he acquired this piece legitimately from the owner of the building that the temporary hoardings were on so this piece was never due to be exhibited on the street forever. do all other expensive artworks for sale in the world come with COA's? |
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lee3
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November 2009
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 20:33:49 GMT 1, >>>what does this mean for those that want to sell 'street' pieces by banksy that they have acquired in the past. will they no longer be able to sell via auction houses?<<<
It means they will no longer be able to sell via primary auction houses (Christie's and Stoheby's) though I'm sure there many other second and third tier houses that will trip over one another to sell certain street pieces.
>>>what does this mean for those that want to sell 'street' pieces by banksy that they have acquired in the past. will they no longer be able to sell via auction houses?<<<
It means they will no longer be able to sell via primary auction houses (Christie's and Stoheby's) though I'm sure there many other second and third tier houses that will trip over one another to sell certain street pieces.
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Pattycakes
Junior Member
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June 2007
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by Pattycakes on Jul 8, 2008 20:54:26 GMT 1, I've read this thread with interest. Clearly Lee you have an interest in auctions and the current market, however, I don't think that you really understand how the market works - specifically at smaller auction houses. Bloomsbury Auctions specialize in prints and works on paper, if you look at the results of the 3rd July Print Sale you will see that they sold a copy of Jack n Jill for £11,000, in fact looking at all of the results from the Urban section of the sale the results were impressive. So clearly they can sell street art, and sell it well.
I think the key to the failure of the June 26th sale was the randomness of the works included in it, it opens with four lots by Marie Laurencin for heaven's sake and then gets to some frankly poor quality Banksys via Lucio Fontana and Angus Fairhurst (that bit I do get) I think that essentially they wanted to compete with the big boys Sotheby's and Christie's but the material they offered was so disperate that actually it turned people off rather than enticing them to buy.
I've read this thread with interest. Clearly Lee you have an interest in auctions and the current market, however, I don't think that you really understand how the market works - specifically at smaller auction houses. Bloomsbury Auctions specialize in prints and works on paper, if you look at the results of the 3rd July Print Sale you will see that they sold a copy of Jack n Jill for £11,000, in fact looking at all of the results from the Urban section of the sale the results were impressive. So clearly they can sell street art, and sell it well.
I think the key to the failure of the June 26th sale was the randomness of the works included in it, it opens with four lots by Marie Laurencin for heaven's sake and then gets to some frankly poor quality Banksys via Lucio Fontana and Angus Fairhurst (that bit I do get) I think that essentially they wanted to compete with the big boys Sotheby's and Christie's but the material they offered was so disperate that actually it turned people off rather than enticing them to buy.
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lee3
New Member
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November 2009
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 8, 2008 21:58:51 GMT 1, >>>however, I don't think that you really understand how the market works <<<
Fair enough
>>> you look at the results of the 3rd July Print Sale you will see that they sold a copy of Jack n Jill for £11,000, in fact looking at all of the results from the Urban section of the sale the results were impressive. So clearly they can sell street art, and sell it well. <<<
I never said otherwise. I said this particular sale was a complete and total failure. There are no auction houses that are going to remain in business long term if they are selling 30% of the lots habitually. This was an outlying event. The question is why and how did it happen?
>>>I think the key to the failure of the June 26th sale was the randomness of the works included in it<<
That's fair and I can appreciate where you're coming from to a degree but I can't blame a 70% buy in ratio on random work myself. Calder originals sold at the low end of the range and I think those buyers got a STEAL. That Fontana at £250k is gorgeous and imo a steal at that price. Was anything iconic? Not really from my vantage point but I can tell you what certianly was iconic and that's a 70% buy in ratio.
>>> I think that essentially they wanted to compete with the big boys Sotheby's and Christie's but the material they offered was so disperate that actually it turned people off rather than enticing them to buy. <<<
Well if their goal was to get in front of the premier houses by a few days to compete with them, they failed miserably considering the success the big boys had less than a week later. There is just no way that it's acceptable to lay an egg like that one considering the strength of this market. I doubt very strongly that we'll see ANY auction house including Bloomsbury that features post war art have a buy in ratio that is even half of what this auction had in the next year no matter how bad things get. As I said before, I can't recall any post war/contemporary auction having a 35% BI ratio let alone one at 70%. This happened all of the sudden for some reason or a combination of reasons and will probably not occur again anytime soon. That is why I would caution anyone on drawing any kind of conlcusion based upon this one particular auction.
>>>however, I don't think that you really understand how the market works <<<
Fair enough
>>> you look at the results of the 3rd July Print Sale you will see that they sold a copy of Jack n Jill for £11,000, in fact looking at all of the results from the Urban section of the sale the results were impressive. So clearly they can sell street art, and sell it well. <<<
I never said otherwise. I said this particular sale was a complete and total failure. There are no auction houses that are going to remain in business long term if they are selling 30% of the lots habitually. This was an outlying event. The question is why and how did it happen?
>>>I think the key to the failure of the June 26th sale was the randomness of the works included in it<<
That's fair and I can appreciate where you're coming from to a degree but I can't blame a 70% buy in ratio on random work myself. Calder originals sold at the low end of the range and I think those buyers got a STEAL. That Fontana at £250k is gorgeous and imo a steal at that price. Was anything iconic? Not really from my vantage point but I can tell you what certianly was iconic and that's a 70% buy in ratio.
>>> I think that essentially they wanted to compete with the big boys Sotheby's and Christie's but the material they offered was so disperate that actually it turned people off rather than enticing them to buy. <<<
Well if their goal was to get in front of the premier houses by a few days to compete with them, they failed miserably considering the success the big boys had less than a week later. There is just no way that it's acceptable to lay an egg like that one considering the strength of this market. I doubt very strongly that we'll see ANY auction house including Bloomsbury that features post war art have a buy in ratio that is even half of what this auction had in the next year no matter how bad things get. As I said before, I can't recall any post war/contemporary auction having a 35% BI ratio let alone one at 70%. This happened all of the sudden for some reason or a combination of reasons and will probably not occur again anytime soon. That is why I would caution anyone on drawing any kind of conlcusion based upon this one particular auction.
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Pattycakes
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June 2007
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by Pattycakes on Jul 8, 2008 22:25:34 GMT 1, Lee I take your points, however as I have said Bloomsbury's strength is selling prints and works on paper, they clearly just don't have the buyers for things like the Fontana. I disagree with you about it being a bargain though, I saw it and it was in really poor condition I think that is another good reason that it didn't sell, I assure you that if it was a god one they'd have sold it at that price - the same goes for a lot of the material in the sale, it was all just ok, and the market doesn't want ok it want's really stellar pieces. You see where Sotheby's and Christie's PII (day) sales succeed is that they draw buyers from people who aspire to the evening sales but can't afford to shop in them, places like Bloomsbury don't have that breadth of clients so unless there is something really great the sale is never going to be a success.
These middle market sales are the ones that are going to be hit more than any other when the crash does come, the super rich who can afford the $35,000,000 Bacons are still going to be super rich and able to buy top quality blue chip art, they have no interest in middle market sub $1,000,000 paintings, and the people who do collect in this area are the ones who will be hit hardest financially when things get really tough.
----"As I said before, I can't recall any post war/contemporary auction having a 35% BI ratio let alone one at 70%. This happened all of the sudden for some reason or a combination of reasons and will probably not occur again anytime soon"----
I take it you weren't around for the last art market crash in 89? have a look at some of the sales from then, there were some memorable Sotheby's sales that were 90% BI! That said I don't think we're due for a crash just yet, but it's coming for sure.
Lee I take your points, however as I have said Bloomsbury's strength is selling prints and works on paper, they clearly just don't have the buyers for things like the Fontana. I disagree with you about it being a bargain though, I saw it and it was in really poor condition I think that is another good reason that it didn't sell, I assure you that if it was a god one they'd have sold it at that price - the same goes for a lot of the material in the sale, it was all just ok, and the market doesn't want ok it want's really stellar pieces. You see where Sotheby's and Christie's PII (day) sales succeed is that they draw buyers from people who aspire to the evening sales but can't afford to shop in them, places like Bloomsbury don't have that breadth of clients so unless there is something really great the sale is never going to be a success.
These middle market sales are the ones that are going to be hit more than any other when the crash does come, the super rich who can afford the $35,000,000 Bacons are still going to be super rich and able to buy top quality blue chip art, they have no interest in middle market sub $1,000,000 paintings, and the people who do collect in this area are the ones who will be hit hardest financially when things get really tough.
----"As I said before, I can't recall any post war/contemporary auction having a 35% BI ratio let alone one at 70%. This happened all of the sudden for some reason or a combination of reasons and will probably not occur again anytime soon"----
I take it you weren't around for the last art market crash in 89? have a look at some of the sales from then, there were some memorable Sotheby's sales that were 90% BI! That said I don't think we're due for a crash just yet, but it's coming for sure.
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chrisps303
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December 2006
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by chrisps303 on Jul 9, 2008 8:34:30 GMT 1, www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/07/08/bamarket108.xmlColin Gleadell rounds up the latest developments in the art market Art sales There is little hope now that anyone removing works by the graffiti artist Banksy from public locations will be able to sell them. Last week at London's Bloomsbury Auctions three examples were offered, but none came with a certificate of authentication from Pest Control, the new committee that authenticates all works by Banksy. At the auction, a salvaged work on plywood from Liverpool was estimated to fetch £40,000 to £60,000 and had an old certificate of authenticity from Banksy's dealer Steve Lazarides, but none from Pest Control, and was unsold.
Another salvaged work on ceramic tiles, estimated at £15,000 to £20,000, was similarly unsold. A third work on concrete blocks, weighing 2.5 tonnes and estimated at £30,000 to £50,000, had been the backdrop for a photo shoot for the band Blur and used on the cover of the first issue of the Observer's Music Monthly magazine, and was withdrawn from the sale. Pest Control - and presumably Banksy - believe these works are made for specific sites and do not want them removed for commercial resale.• Orientalist art continued its upward trajectory in the market last week when a sale at Christie's realised a record £18 million, £10 million more than the previous record set by Sotheby's last year. Several individual artists' records were broken, the most prominent being the £2.1 million paid for an 1876 portrait, Veiled Circassian Beauty (above) by the French artist Jean-Léon Gérôme, which had been estimated at £400,000 to £600,000. Gérôme painted it after one of several trips to Turkey, where the painting is now most likely destined. Eighteen years ago it had fetched £324,000 at auction. The Orientalist sale made up just half of Christie's regular 19th-century European art sale, but the second half did not do so well, realising just £3.3 million. Nearly half of the lots were unsold. • Often, when artists die, the market takes time to assess their work and prices can slide. However, for Beryl Cook, one of Britain's most popular artists, who died in May, the reverse has happened. At Bonhams last week, two paintings by Cook, bought for about £2,000 in the early Eighties, soared past estimates and her previous record of £28,800 to sell for £66,000 and £69,600. The artist's dealer, Jess Wilder of London's Portal Gallery, was staggered: "The highest price we ever sold for in the gallery was £40,000." A retrospective exhibition of Cook's works will be staged at the University of Plymouth in November. • Holidaymakers heading for the Suffolk coast this week could do worse when sheltering from the rain than head to Snape Maltings for its 41st annual antiques and fine art fair. From Thursday until Sunday, the Essex gallery Wish You Were Here has devoted its stand to the ribald humour of the saucy comic postcards of Donald McGill, who was prosecuted for obscenity in 1954. More than 60 drawings by McGill are for sale with prices ranging from £500 to £15,000. CG
I have just re read this post, does this mean that laz wasnt worried about authenticating street work before pest control as one piece has a letter from him as authentic?
www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/07/08/bamarket108.xmlColin Gleadell rounds up the latest developments in the art market Art sales There is little hope now that anyone removing works by the graffiti artist Banksy from public locations will be able to sell them. Last week at London's Bloomsbury Auctions three examples were offered, but none came with a certificate of authentication from Pest Control, the new committee that authenticates all works by Banksy. At the auction, a salvaged work on plywood from Liverpool was estimated to fetch £40,000 to £60,000 and had an old certificate of authenticity from Banksy's dealer Steve Lazarides, but none from Pest Control, and was unsold.
Another salvaged work on ceramic tiles, estimated at £15,000 to £20,000, was similarly unsold. A third work on concrete blocks, weighing 2.5 tonnes and estimated at £30,000 to £50,000, had been the backdrop for a photo shoot for the band Blur and used on the cover of the first issue of the Observer's Music Monthly magazine, and was withdrawn from the sale. Pest Control - and presumably Banksy - believe these works are made for specific sites and do not want them removed for commercial resale.• Orientalist art continued its upward trajectory in the market last week when a sale at Christie's realised a record £18 million, £10 million more than the previous record set by Sotheby's last year. Several individual artists' records were broken, the most prominent being the £2.1 million paid for an 1876 portrait, Veiled Circassian Beauty (above) by the French artist Jean-Léon Gérôme, which had been estimated at £400,000 to £600,000. Gérôme painted it after one of several trips to Turkey, where the painting is now most likely destined. Eighteen years ago it had fetched £324,000 at auction. The Orientalist sale made up just half of Christie's regular 19th-century European art sale, but the second half did not do so well, realising just £3.3 million. Nearly half of the lots were unsold. • Often, when artists die, the market takes time to assess their work and prices can slide. However, for Beryl Cook, one of Britain's most popular artists, who died in May, the reverse has happened. At Bonhams last week, two paintings by Cook, bought for about £2,000 in the early Eighties, soared past estimates and her previous record of £28,800 to sell for £66,000 and £69,600. The artist's dealer, Jess Wilder of London's Portal Gallery, was staggered: "The highest price we ever sold for in the gallery was £40,000." A retrospective exhibition of Cook's works will be staged at the University of Plymouth in November. • Holidaymakers heading for the Suffolk coast this week could do worse when sheltering from the rain than head to Snape Maltings for its 41st annual antiques and fine art fair. From Thursday until Sunday, the Essex gallery Wish You Were Here has devoted its stand to the ribald humour of the saucy comic postcards of Donald McGill, who was prosecuted for obscenity in 1954. More than 60 drawings by McGill are for sale with prices ranging from £500 to £15,000. CG I have just re read this post, does this mean that laz wasnt worried about authenticating street work before pest control as one piece has a letter from him as authentic? |
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Pattycakes
Junior Member
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June 2007
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by Pattycakes on Jul 9, 2008 9:02:38 GMT 1, Exactly, it's confusing as the certificate from Laz was dated 2004 I think - but clearly pest control refused to give it a certificate. So in 2004-2007 it was a kosher Banksy and come 2008 it was not. I can feel law suits coming especially if someone bought at auction a piece authenticated by Laz which was subsequently turned down by Pest Control.... oh the fun of the fair.
Exactly, it's confusing as the certificate from Laz was dated 2004 I think - but clearly pest control refused to give it a certificate. So in 2004-2007 it was a kosher Banksy and come 2008 it was not. I can feel law suits coming especially if someone bought at auction a piece authenticated by Laz which was subsequently turned down by Pest Control.... oh the fun of the fair.
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pezlow
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January 2007
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by pezlow on Jul 9, 2008 9:07:20 GMT 1, On the auction house issue whatever the success or otherwise of the recent bloomsbury auction is in general I think it is good news for us that more players are entering the arena to compete with the big boys. Let's face Christies, Sothebys, Bonhams and Philips do operate in a way that is pretty close to being a cartel and for other players to enter the marketplace can only be a good thing.
Bloomsbury have made mistakes in the past and will no doubt continue to make mistakes but you have to remember where they have come from - 5 years ago they were a specialist book auctioneer with no art offering at all.
On the auction house issue whatever the success or otherwise of the recent bloomsbury auction is in general I think it is good news for us that more players are entering the arena to compete with the big boys. Let's face Christies, Sothebys, Bonhams and Philips do operate in a way that is pretty close to being a cartel and for other players to enter the marketplace can only be a good thing.
Bloomsbury have made mistakes in the past and will no doubt continue to make mistakes but you have to remember where they have come from - 5 years ago they were a specialist book auctioneer with no art offering at all.
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by buffin on Jul 9, 2008 9:22:10 GMT 1, Agree with that Pez. The Dreweatts auction came in for some stick before hand but I thought overall they did a good job and raised the profile of a few west country artists. Am sure they made some mistakes which they will learn from but as you say its good to have a few more auction houses involved.
Agree with that Pez. The Dreweatts auction came in for some stick before hand but I thought overall they did a good job and raised the profile of a few west country artists. Am sure they made some mistakes which they will learn from but as you say its good to have a few more auction houses involved.
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by carlito on Jul 9, 2008 9:58:21 GMT 1, so anyone know what Lee was implying earlier in this thread with his '5 different reasons'?
I for one would like a rumour mill to brighten this rain sodden Wednesday morning
so anyone know what Lee was implying earlier in this thread with his '5 different reasons'?
I for one would like a rumour mill to brighten this rain sodden Wednesday morning
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