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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 9:53:45 GMT 1, I know we have been over this many times in the past but what you say is simply not true. I have been collecting art seriously for well over ten years and I can promise you I have never flipped any artwork in my entire life. But I agree with your other point. Anyone flipping at this precise moment is an idiot. Well you're the exception, flipping is only discouraged in the art world because it cuts across the interests of galleries who want to control their markets.
Afraid that is 100% wrong. Flipping is discouraged in the art world as there are genuine collectors who miss out on drops and get charged inflated prices by the tossers.
I know we have been over this many times in the past but what you say is simply not true. I have been collecting art seriously for well over ten years and I can promise you I have never flipped any artwork in my entire life. But I agree with your other point. Anyone flipping at this precise moment is an idiot. Well you're the exception, flipping is only discouraged in the art world because it cuts across the interests of galleries who want to control their markets. Afraid that is 100% wrong. Flipping is discouraged in the art world as there are genuine collectors who miss out on drops and get charged inflated prices by the tossers. |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Deleted on May 4, 2024 10:49:52 GMT 1, Well you're the exception, flipping is only discouraged in the art world because it cuts across the interests of galleries who want to control their markets. Afraid that is 100% wrong. Flipping is discouraged in the art world as there are genuine collectors who miss out on drops and get charged inflated prices by the tossers.
They want minimal works available publicly to keep supply low and demand high.
They offer the clients that they know from experience don't resell quickly first, then to those they believe wont flip.
The caveat of no resale for 2-3 years is market control/safeguarding. Primary prices are usually attractive to keep clients keen to be first port of call for get future releases.
There's a balance to keep things in the best interest of all in the triangle, the artist, the collectors and the gallery. Galleries don't know who all the genuine collectors are outside their long term collectors who have 'proven themselves'. The galleries want their artists and clients to do well so they are future artists/clients. Keeping perceived volume of available works minimal is paramount. Most representatives don't mind reselling as long as it's done in a way to protect the market ie non public, hence why most reputable representatives will ask for first refusal when reselling, so they can maintain a level of control.
Of course getting all the works into the hands of genuine collectors initially is the ideal situation. But when there's money involved many people will say anything, 'i would never sell it, I'm purely a collector' etc. Which is why a portion is almost always presold to the genuine collectors the gallery knows.
Well you're the exception, flipping is only discouraged in the art world because it cuts across the interests of galleries who want to control their markets. Afraid that is 100% wrong. Flipping is discouraged in the art world as there are genuine collectors who miss out on drops and get charged inflated prices by the tossers. He's partly right. Flipping is discouraged largely to control the market. To protect the artists prices and the clients investment, also to safeguard the gallerists future income and any time/money spent on promoting the artist. They want minimal works available publicly to keep supply low and demand high. They offer the clients that they know from experience don't resell quickly first, then to those they believe wont flip. The caveat of no resale for 2-3 years is market control/safeguarding. Primary prices are usually attractive to keep clients keen to be first port of call for get future releases. There's a balance to keep things in the best interest of all in the triangle, the artist, the collectors and the gallery. Galleries don't know who all the genuine collectors are outside their long term collectors who have 'proven themselves'. The galleries want their artists and clients to do well so they are future artists/clients. Keeping perceived volume of available works minimal is paramount. Most representatives don't mind reselling as long as it's done in a way to protect the market ie non public, hence why most reputable representatives will ask for first refusal when reselling, so they can maintain a level of control. Of course getting all the works into the hands of genuine collectors initially is the ideal situation. But when there's money involved many people will say anything, 'i would never sell it, I'm purely a collector' etc. Which is why a portion is almost always presold to the genuine collectors the gallery knows. |
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Wendero
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Wendero on May 4, 2024 10:58:09 GMT 1, This time HENI is making a meticulous job with the allocations, the majority of the prints is going to well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs old members.
Unless these prints reach the £50k on the market , this time will see very few for sale on secondary .
This time HENI is making a meticulous job with the allocations, the majority of the prints is going to well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs old members.
Unless these prints reach the £50k on the market , this time will see very few for sale on secondary .
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by its all about me on May 4, 2024 11:01:26 GMT 1, Well you're the exception, flipping is only discouraged in the art world because it cuts across the interests of galleries who want to control their markets. They've basically crated a culture of fear amongst collectors (of being black listed) and propagated a myth that collectors reselling art are in someway exploiting others. The reality is far different; when it comes to contemporary art, the illusion of scarcity for mass produced works is paramount to keep the pyramid from collapsing, so essentially galleries and a select few artists can get very rich. When you're selling something that has no intrinsic value or utility and isn't particularly rare, it requires an excessive control of the market and in far too many cases bad business practises. The way I see it is that if collectors want to beat them at their own game and take some of that money then good for them. Fairs fair. #artismoney
Well you're the exception, flipping is only discouraged in the art world because it cuts across the interests of galleries who want to control their markets. They've basically crated a culture of fear amongst collectors (of being black listed) and propagated a myth that collectors reselling art are in someway exploiting others. The reality is far different; when it comes to contemporary art, the illusion of scarcity for mass produced works is paramount to keep the pyramid from collapsing, so essentially galleries and a select few artists can get very rich. When you're selling something that has no intrinsic value or utility and isn't particularly rare, it requires an excessive control of the market and in far too many cases bad business practises. The way I see it is that if collectors want to beat them at their own game and take some of that money then good for them. Fairs fair. #artismoney Just about everything you say is clearly incorrect. You are either deluded or you say these things to try and justify your obviously bad behaviour. |
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damo
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by damo on May 4, 2024 11:50:21 GMT 1, This time HENI is making a meticulous job with the allocations, the majority of the prints is going to well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs old members. Unless these prints reach the £50k on the market , this time will see very few for sale on secondary .
Inclined to agree with this. Some will slip through naturally, but percentage that seem to have been allocated to the active members in their Discord and/or the NFT holders is interesting. I think it’s a really nice touch tbh.
This time HENI is making a meticulous job with the allocations, the majority of the prints is going to well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs old members. Unless these prints reach the £50k on the market , this time will see very few for sale on secondary . Inclined to agree with this. Some will slip through naturally, but percentage that seem to have been allocated to the active members in their Discord and/or the NFT holders is interesting. I think it’s a really nice touch tbh. |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 12:17:31 GMT 1, It’s a shame they are being meticulous by probably just offering to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. The application didn’t gather much information so they can only assess whether someone is a previous customer or not (based on address and email).
When Heni dropped the Currency UPs to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members” they landed with ‘far too many people’ who got them to flip (and a lot who are on the Discord and then flipped).
Heni haven’t got a clue whether the people who buy their artwork actually keeps it or flips it. Unless they pop around to everyone’s house for a stock take, they will never know. In fact, they should probably be more suspicious of the people who buy every release. The reality is that Heni actually like flippers as they have never done anything about it.
It’s too early to assess how good a job they have done in getting them to collectors as we need to wait a few months after delivery, but we’ve already seen gallery and flipper listings.
Didn’t take this person long though did it (and they have bought/flipped a lot of previous Heni releases). 😉
It’s a shame they are being meticulous by probably just offering to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. The application didn’t gather much information so they can only assess whether someone is a previous customer or not (based on address and email). When Heni dropped the Currency UPs to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members” they landed with ‘far too many people’ who got them to flip (and a lot who are on the Discord and then flipped). Heni haven’t got a clue whether the people who buy their artwork actually keeps it or flips it. Unless they pop around to everyone’s house for a stock take, they will never know. In fact, they should probably be more suspicious of the people who buy every release. The reality is that Heni actually like flippers as they have never done anything about it. It’s too early to assess how good a job they have done in getting them to collectors as we need to wait a few months after delivery, but we’ve already seen gallery and flipper listings. Didn’t take this person long though did it (and they have bought/flipped a lot of previous Heni releases). 😉 |
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damo
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by damo on May 4, 2024 12:53:44 GMT 1, It’s a shame they are being meticulous by probably just offering to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. The application didn’t gather much information so they can only assess whether someone is a previous customer or not (based on address and email). When Heni dropped the Currency UPs to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members” they landed with ‘far too many people’ who got them to flip (and a lot who are on the Discord and then flipped). Heni haven’t got a clue whether the people who buy their artwork actually keeps it or flips it. Unless they pop around to everyone’s house for a stock take, they will never know. In fact, they should probably be more suspicious of the people who buy every release. The reality is that Heni actually like flippers as they have never done anything about it. It’s too early to assess how good a job they have done in getting them to collectors as we need to wait a few months after delivery, but we’ve already seen gallery and flipper listings. Didn’t take this person long though did it (and they have bought/flipped a lot of previous Heni releases). 😉
They didn’t though did they? The UPs infamously primarily went to non holders/inactive members of their discord. Many on here mocked and found humour in the frustration in there at the time, saw it as evidence of how deluded those NFT holders were. Well maybe Heni saw that (in their own Discord) and changed/evolved things this time. Funny thing is whilst I personally did see a connection between the NFT and the UP, I don’t with this release. It’s smart though, how better to understand your potential client base than to host a forum where they chat all day. Seems sensible to me.
Yes the odd one gets through (as per your example) but I agree with OP that there won’t be as many sold on as people might expect.
Also Heni wont ‘like flippers’, that’s a stupid comment isn’t it? It doesn’t pass the most basic logic thought process, suggesting you weren't really thinking before saying it?Flippers and resellers are a natural part of the ‘market’ but Heni, or anyone operating at that scale, are going to try to manage the challenge. And allocations are the easiest way.
It’s a shame they are being meticulous by probably just offering to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. The application didn’t gather much information so they can only assess whether someone is a previous customer or not (based on address and email). When Heni dropped the Currency UPs to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members” they landed with ‘far too many people’ who got them to flip (and a lot who are on the Discord and then flipped). Heni haven’t got a clue whether the people who buy their artwork actually keeps it or flips it. Unless they pop around to everyone’s house for a stock take, they will never know. In fact, they should probably be more suspicious of the people who buy every release. The reality is that Heni actually like flippers as they have never done anything about it. It’s too early to assess how good a job they have done in getting them to collectors as we need to wait a few months after delivery, but we’ve already seen gallery and flipper listings. Didn’t take this person long though did it (and they have bought/flipped a lot of previous Heni releases). 😉 They didn’t though did they? The UPs infamously primarily went to non holders/inactive members of their discord. Many on here mocked and found humour in the frustration in there at the time, saw it as evidence of how deluded those NFT holders were. Well maybe Heni saw that (in their own Discord) and changed/evolved things this time. Funny thing is whilst I personally did see a connection between the NFT and the UP, I don’t with this release. It’s smart though, how better to understand your potential client base than to host a forum where they chat all day. Seems sensible to me. Yes the odd one gets through (as per your example) but I agree with OP that there won’t be as many sold on as people might expect. Also Heni wont ‘like flippers’, that’s a stupid comment isn’t it? It doesn’t pass the most basic logic thought process, suggesting you weren't really thinking before saying it?Flippers and resellers are a natural part of the ‘market’ but Heni, or anyone operating at that scale, are going to try to manage the challenge. And allocations are the easiest way. |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 13:05:58 GMT 1, It’s a shame they are being meticulous by probably just offering to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. The application didn’t gather much information so they can only assess whether someone is a previous customer or not (based on address and email). When Heni dropped the Currency UPs to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members” they landed with ‘far too many people’ who got them to flip (and a lot who are on the Discord and then flipped). Heni haven’t got a clue whether the people who buy their artwork actually keeps it or flips it. Unless they pop around to everyone’s house for a stock take, they will never know. In fact, they should probably be more suspicious of the people who buy every release. The reality is that Heni actually like flippers as they have never done anything about it. It’s too early to assess how good a job they have done in getting them to collectors as we need to wait a few months after delivery, but we’ve already seen gallery and flipper listings. Didn’t take this person long though did it (and they have bought/flipped a lot of previous Heni releases). 😉 Also Heni wont ‘like flippers’, that’s a stupid comment isn’t it? It doesn’t pass the most basic logic thought process, suggesting you weren't really thinking before saying it?
(* for members who are unaware, ARR is when Mr Hirst earns up to 4% extra royalties from auction sales)
It’s a shame they are being meticulous by probably just offering to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. The application didn’t gather much information so they can only assess whether someone is a previous customer or not (based on address and email). When Heni dropped the Currency UPs to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members” they landed with ‘far too many people’ who got them to flip (and a lot who are on the Discord and then flipped). Heni haven’t got a clue whether the people who buy their artwork actually keeps it or flips it. Unless they pop around to everyone’s house for a stock take, they will never know. In fact, they should probably be more suspicious of the people who buy every release. The reality is that Heni actually like flippers as they have never done anything about it. It’s too early to assess how good a job they have done in getting them to collectors as we need to wait a few months after delivery, but we’ve already seen gallery and flipper listings. Didn’t take this person long though did it (and they have bought/flipped a lot of previous Heni releases). 😉 Also Heni wont ‘like flippers’, that’s a stupid comment isn’t it? It doesn’t pass the most basic logic thought process, suggesting you weren't really thinking before saying it? Flipping = ARR* so part of their business model and was a VERY insightful comment and not a flippant comment. It’s also a reason why Heni invest in publishing reports with secondary sales. (* for members who are unaware, ARR is when Mr Hirst earns up to 4% extra royalties from auction sales) |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 13:10:26 GMT 1, It’s a shame they are being meticulous by probably just offering to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. The application didn’t gather much information so they can only assess whether someone is a previous customer or not (based on address and email). When Heni dropped the Currency UPs to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members” they landed with ‘far too many people’ who got them to flip (and a lot who are on the Discord and then flipped). Heni haven’t got a clue whether the people who buy their artwork actually keeps it or flips it. Unless they pop around to everyone’s house for a stock take, they will never know. In fact, they should probably be more suspicious of the people who buy every release. The reality is that Heni actually like flippers as they have never done anything about it. It’s too early to assess how good a job they have done in getting them to collectors as we need to wait a few months after delivery, but we’ve already seen gallery and flipper listings. Didn’t take this person long though did it (and they have bought/flipped a lot of previous Heni releases). 😉 Yes the odd one gets through (as per your example) but I agree with OP that there won’t be as many sold on as people might expect.
It’s a shame they are being meticulous by probably just offering to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. The application didn’t gather much information so they can only assess whether someone is a previous customer or not (based on address and email). When Heni dropped the Currency UPs to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members” they landed with ‘far too many people’ who got them to flip (and a lot who are on the Discord and then flipped). Heni haven’t got a clue whether the people who buy their artwork actually keeps it or flips it. Unless they pop around to everyone’s house for a stock take, they will never know. In fact, they should probably be more suspicious of the people who buy every release. The reality is that Heni actually like flippers as they have never done anything about it. It’s too early to assess how good a job they have done in getting them to collectors as we need to wait a few months after delivery, but we’ve already seen gallery and flipper listings. Didn’t take this person long though did it (and they have bought/flipped a lot of previous Heni releases). 😉 Yes the odd one gets through (as per your example) but I agree with OP that there won’t be as many sold on as people might expect. Here is another one straight after the allocation. Like I said, do not assess until a few months after delivery. We also know it takes a few months for them to filter into auctions, but expect they are being lined up. |
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damo
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by damo on May 4, 2024 13:13:31 GMT 1, Also Heni wont ‘like flippers’, that’s a stupid comment isn’t it? It doesn’t pass the most basic logic thought process, suggesting you weren't really thinking before saying it? Flipping = ARR* so part of their business model and was a VERY insightful comment and not a flippant comment. It’s also a reason why Heni invest in publishing reports with secondary sales. (* for members who are unaware, ARR is when Mr Hirst earns up to 4% extra royalties from auction sales)
Over time yes, but not straight after release. I think you’ll find if people want to sell these within the first year or two they would prefer it done through themselves (hence offering that option), when they start hitting auctions after that your point has validity. We are talking in the here and now though.
My apologies for questioning your ‘VERY insightful’ point though 
Also Heni wont ‘like flippers’, that’s a stupid comment isn’t it? It doesn’t pass the most basic logic thought process, suggesting you weren't really thinking before saying it? Flipping = ARR* so part of their business model and was a VERY insightful comment and not a flippant comment. It’s also a reason why Heni invest in publishing reports with secondary sales. (* for members who are unaware, ARR is when Mr Hirst earns up to 4% extra royalties from auction sales) Over time yes, but not straight after release. I think you’ll find if people want to sell these within the first year or two they would prefer it done through themselves (hence offering that option), when they start hitting auctions after that your point has validity. We are talking in the here and now though. My apologies for questioning your ‘VERY insightful’ point though |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 13:30:29 GMT 1, Flipping = ARR* so part of their business model and was a VERY insightful comment and not a flippant comment. It’s also a reason why Heni invest in publishing reports with secondary sales. (* for members who are unaware, ARR is when Mr Hirst earns up to 4% extra royalties from auction sales) Over time yes, but not straight after release. I think you’ll find if people want to sell these within the first year or two they would prefer it done through themselves (hence offering that option, when they start hitting auctions after that your point has validity. We are talking in the here and now though. My apologies for questioning your ‘VERY insightful’ point though
We know that some flippers will choose to work with auction houses or galleries then can remain anonymous and not be as brazen to sell here (unless via DMs).
Another part of Heni’s business model is storing art for a cost. They know that many of these people bought to sell (and are not in between moving house).
Sorry to differ in opinion with the Heni cheerleaders. 😉
Flipping = ARR* so part of their business model and was a VERY insightful comment and not a flippant comment. It’s also a reason why Heni invest in publishing reports with secondary sales. (* for members who are unaware, ARR is when Mr Hirst earns up to 4% extra royalties from auction sales) Over time yes, but not straight after release. I think you’ll find if people want to sell these within the first year or two they would prefer it done through themselves (hence offering that option, when they start hitting auctions after that your point has validity. We are talking in the here and now though. My apologies for questioning your ‘VERY insightful’ point though A flipper is someone whose sole intention was buying to resell (therefore depriving others who buy to display on their wall) - doesn’t matter if yesterday, a few months or next year. We know that some flippers will choose to work with auction houses or galleries then can remain anonymous and not be as brazen to sell here (unless via DMs). Another part of Heni’s business model is storing art for a cost. They know that many of these people bought to sell (and are not in between moving house). Sorry to differ in opinion with the Heni cheerleaders. 😉 |
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damo
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by damo on May 4, 2024 13:33:31 GMT 1, I just wanted to point out your incorrect point re the UP, dressed up as a fact. Anyway I just posted a view. I get it you hate Heni, I quite like them tbh, always been decent to me. Each to their own.
I just wanted to point out your incorrect point re the UP, dressed up as a fact. Anyway I just posted a view. I get it you hate Heni, I quite like them tbh, always been decent to me. Each to their own.
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 13:43:49 GMT 1, I just wanted to point out your incorrect point re the UP, dressed up as a fact. Anyway I just posted a view. I get it you hate Heni, I quite like them tbh, always been decent to me. Each to their own.
The UPs were flipped and because Heni sold them to their previous customers. 🤦
I just wanted to point out your incorrect point re the UP, dressed up as a fact. Anyway I just posted a view. I get it you hate Heni, I quite like them tbh, always been decent to me. Each to their own. I don’t hate Heni as have bought from them (and still on my wall) and I wouldn’t have said below just a few days ago, but they are gradually going downhill and starting to ruin the art market. The UPs were flipped and because Heni sold them to their previous customers. 🤦 |
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damo
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by damo on May 4, 2024 14:02:23 GMT 1, Yep, Heni single handedly ruining the art market. It’s quite the feat that. Do tell us more though? Now I know you don’t hate them and are a previous customer I can take these views as impartial and balanced
Yep, Heni single handedly ruining the art market. It’s quite the feat that. Do tell us more though? Now I know you don’t hate them and are a previous customer I can take these views as impartial and balanced |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 14:19:20 GMT 1, Yep, Heni single handedly ruining the art market. It’s quite the feat that. Do tell us more though? Now I know you don’t hate them and are a previous customer I can take these views as impartial and balanced
There are plenty of galleries/publishers when they get too big that are ruining it as they have to be more financially focused.
However, Heni mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is not helping the art market. Or, do you believe mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is helping the art market?
Yep, Heni single handedly ruining the art market. It’s quite the feat that. Do tell us more though? Now I know you don’t hate them and are a previous customer I can take these views as impartial and balanced I never said ‘single handedly ruining the art market’ so don’t make things up! There are plenty of galleries/publishers when they get too big that are ruining it as they have to be more financially focused. However, Heni mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is not helping the art market. Or, do you believe mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is helping the art market? |
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damo
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by damo on May 4, 2024 14:28:57 GMT 1, Yep, Heni single handedly ruining the art market. It’s quite the feat that. Do tell us more though? Now I know you don’t hate them and are a previous customer I can take these views as impartial and balanced I never said ‘single handedly ruining the art market’ so don’t make things up! There are plenty of galleries/publishers when they get too big that are ruining it as they have to be more financially focused. However, Heni mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is not helping the art market. Or, do you believe mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is helping the art market?
Tbh I don’t really have the time or interest to argue semantics with you. You said ‘they are gradually going downhill and starting to ruin the art market’ so I was mocking you for that point. I don’t particularly like being dismissed as a ‘Heni cheerleader’, I don’t particularly like the dibond, but I know some people do, I choose not to be critical of what people like but maybe that’s not your mantra. You made a point in response to a comment I made, which was wrong (re UPs going to NFT holders) so I responded. Then you have redefined that argument a couple of times which is cool, to move it onto different points. Anyway, we disagree, it’s all good.
I’ll leave you to have your final word, and then everyone can get on with their day.
Yep, Heni single handedly ruining the art market. It’s quite the feat that. Do tell us more though? Now I know you don’t hate them and are a previous customer I can take these views as impartial and balanced I never said ‘single handedly ruining the art market’ so don’t make things up! There are plenty of galleries/publishers when they get too big that are ruining it as they have to be more financially focused. However, Heni mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is not helping the art market. Or, do you believe mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is helping the art market? Tbh I don’t really have the time or interest to argue semantics with you. You said ‘they are gradually going downhill and starting to ruin the art market’ so I was mocking you for that point. I don’t particularly like being dismissed as a ‘Heni cheerleader’, I don’t particularly like the dibond, but I know some people do, I choose not to be critical of what people like but maybe that’s not your mantra. You made a point in response to a comment I made, which was wrong (re UPs going to NFT holders) so I responded. Then you have redefined that argument a couple of times which is cool, to move it onto different points. Anyway, we disagree, it’s all good. I’ll leave you to have your final word, and then everyone can get on with their day. |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 14:50:57 GMT 1, I never said ‘single handedly ruining the art market’ so don’t make things up! There are plenty of galleries/publishers when they get too big that are ruining it as they have to be more financially focused. However, Heni mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is not helping the art market. Or, do you believe mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is helping the art market? Tbh I don’t really have the time or interest to argue semantics with you. You said ‘they are gradually going downhill and starting to ruin the art market’ so I was mocking you for that point. I don’t particularly like being dismissed as a ‘Heni cheerleader’, I don’t particularly like the dibond, but I know some people do, I choose not to be critical of what people like but maybe that’s not your mantra. You made a point in response to a comment I made, which was wrong (re UPs going to NFT holders) so I responded. Then you have redefined that argument a couple of times which is cool, to move it onto different points. Anyway, we disagree, it’s all good. I’ll leave you to have your final word, and then everyone can get on with their day.
I still don’t think you can read correctly 🤓 as I never said all UPs went NFT holders. I used a quote from someone else and said the UPs went to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. To help you out, I have highlighted both times and circled the and/or.
I never said ‘single handedly ruining the art market’ so don’t make things up! There are plenty of galleries/publishers when they get too big that are ruining it as they have to be more financially focused. However, Heni mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is not helping the art market. Or, do you believe mass producing dibond prints (that depreciate in value) is helping the art market? Tbh I don’t really have the time or interest to argue semantics with you. You said ‘they are gradually going downhill and starting to ruin the art market’ so I was mocking you for that point. I don’t particularly like being dismissed as a ‘Heni cheerleader’, I don’t particularly like the dibond, but I know some people do, I choose not to be critical of what people like but maybe that’s not your mantra. You made a point in response to a comment I made, which was wrong (re UPs going to NFT holders) so I responded. Then you have redefined that argument a couple of times which is cool, to move it onto different points. Anyway, we disagree, it’s all good. I’ll leave you to have your final word, and then everyone can get on with their day. You’ve done quite well at wasting my time by keep having to set things straight. Sorry, you think it was an argument - I wasn’t arguing with you, unless you thought you was arguing with me. 🤔 I still don’t think you can read correctly 🤓 as I never said all UPs went NFT holders. I used a quote from someone else and said the UPs went to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. To help you out, I have highlighted both times and circled the and/or. |
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damo
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by damo on May 4, 2024 14:58:29 GMT 1, Tbh I don’t really have the time or interest to argue semantics with you. You said ‘they are gradually going downhill and starting to ruin the art market’ so I was mocking you for that point. I don’t particularly like being dismissed as a ‘Heni cheerleader’, I don’t particularly like the dibond, but I know some people do, I choose not to be critical of what people like but maybe that’s not your mantra. You made a point in response to a comment I made, which was wrong (re UPs going to NFT holders) so I responded. Then you have redefined that argument a couple of times which is cool, to move it onto different points. Anyway, we disagree, it’s all good. I’ll leave you to have your final word, and then everyone can get on with their day. You’ve done quite well at wasting my time by keep having to set things straight. Sorry, you think it was an argument - I wasn’t arguing with you, unless you thought you was arguing with me. 🤔 I still don’t think you can read correctly 🤓 as I never said all UPs went NFT holders. I used a quote from someone else and said the UPs went to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. To help you out, I have highlighted both times and circled the and/or.
Honestly, this is really dull. I promised you the last word in this 'discussion' because you strike me as the sort of person for whom that is important. I dont know if you are trying to change the point you originally made to look smarter, or i read your point incorrectly. Tbh I dont think it really matters either way. At the end of the day its a forum, we have different views, on different things. I mean, for example, you dont think i can read, and i think you're a pompous tit. Who is right, who is wrong, who actually cares? Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day.
Tbh I don’t really have the time or interest to argue semantics with you. You said ‘they are gradually going downhill and starting to ruin the art market’ so I was mocking you for that point. I don’t particularly like being dismissed as a ‘Heni cheerleader’, I don’t particularly like the dibond, but I know some people do, I choose not to be critical of what people like but maybe that’s not your mantra. You made a point in response to a comment I made, which was wrong (re UPs going to NFT holders) so I responded. Then you have redefined that argument a couple of times which is cool, to move it onto different points. Anyway, we disagree, it’s all good. I’ll leave you to have your final word, and then everyone can get on with their day. You’ve done quite well at wasting my time by keep having to set things straight. Sorry, you think it was an argument - I wasn’t arguing with you, unless you thought you was arguing with me. 🤔 I still don’t think you can read correctly 🤓 as I never said all UPs went NFT holders. I used a quote from someone else and said the UPs went to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. To help you out, I have highlighted both times and circled the and/or. Honestly, this is really dull. I promised you the last word in this 'discussion' because you strike me as the sort of person for whom that is important. I dont know if you are trying to change the point you originally made to look smarter, or i read your point incorrectly. Tbh I dont think it really matters either way. At the end of the day its a forum, we have different views, on different things. I mean, for example, you dont think i can read, and i think you're a pompous tit. Who is right, who is wrong, who actually cares? Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day. |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 15:09:47 GMT 1, You’ve done quite well at wasting my time by keep having to set things straight. Sorry, you think it was an argument - I wasn’t arguing with you, unless you thought you was arguing with me. 🤔 I still don’t think you can read correctly 🤓 as I never said all UPs went NFT holders. I used a quote from someone else and said the UPs went to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. To help you out, I have highlighted both times and circled the and/or. Honestly, this is really dull. I promised you the last word in this 'discussion' because you strike me as the sort of person for whom that is important. I dont know if you are trying to change the point you originally made to look smarter, or i read your point incorrectly. Tbh I dont think it really matters either way. At the end of the day its a forum, we have different views, on different things. I mean, for example, you dont think i can read, and i think you're a pompous tit. Who is right, who is wrong, who actually cares? Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day.
I never changed my original point as I even attached the screenshot to help you. 🤣
You’ve done quite well at wasting my time by keep having to set things straight. Sorry, you think it was an argument - I wasn’t arguing with you, unless you thought you was arguing with me. 🤔 I still don’t think you can read correctly 🤓 as I never said all UPs went NFT holders. I used a quote from someone else and said the UPs went to “well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs members”. To help you out, I have highlighted both times and circled the and/or. Honestly, this is really dull. I promised you the last word in this 'discussion' because you strike me as the sort of person for whom that is important. I dont know if you are trying to change the point you originally made to look smarter, or i read your point incorrectly. Tbh I dont think it really matters either way. At the end of the day its a forum, we have different views, on different things. I mean, for example, you dont think i can read, and i think you're a pompous tit. Who is right, who is wrong, who actually cares? Anyway, enjoy the rest of your day. If you decide to change what I say and cannot read, then I unfortunately I will be a “pompous tit”. 😀 I never changed my original point as I even attached the screenshot to help you. 🤣 |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by barrington on May 4, 2024 15:16:08 GMT 1, It seems like Heni are doing their best to ensure art gets into the hands of genuine fans and collectors. We accept that companies and artists give priority to certain galleries, big collectors, friends, dealers etc, so why are people getting in a strop because Heni are trying to be a bit more egalitarian?
From what I can see, the people on the Heni Discord who’ve been allocated an Archangel (full disclosure - I got one) all genuinely contribute to that community. They take pictures of works to share with members who can’t get to the galleries, they post Photoshop mock ups so people can see how a piece might look at home, they’re always there to share their knowledge and give advice, so why shouldn’t Heni look at their applications favourably?
I can’t think of any other big companies in the art that have put so much effort and resources into building a relationship with their community. It genuinely looks like they’ve spent considerable time and effort deciding who to allocate these to. One thing I’ve noticed about Heni since the Discord first appeared is that they listen. They might not do what the community wants all the time, but they do take on board feedback from their customers.
And as for the flipping, from what I’ve seen those people post and how much they enjoy collecting Hirst’s work, they’re about as likely to flip as I am to swim the Atlantic.
It seems like Heni are doing their best to ensure art gets into the hands of genuine fans and collectors. We accept that companies and artists give priority to certain galleries, big collectors, friends, dealers etc, so why are people getting in a strop because Heni are trying to be a bit more egalitarian?
From what I can see, the people on the Heni Discord who’ve been allocated an Archangel (full disclosure - I got one) all genuinely contribute to that community. They take pictures of works to share with members who can’t get to the galleries, they post Photoshop mock ups so people can see how a piece might look at home, they’re always there to share their knowledge and give advice, so why shouldn’t Heni look at their applications favourably?
I can’t think of any other big companies in the art that have put so much effort and resources into building a relationship with their community. It genuinely looks like they’ve spent considerable time and effort deciding who to allocate these to. One thing I’ve noticed about Heni since the Discord first appeared is that they listen. They might not do what the community wants all the time, but they do take on board feedback from their customers.
And as for the flipping, from what I’ve seen those people post and how much they enjoy collecting Hirst’s work, they’re about as likely to flip as I am to swim the Atlantic.
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nobokov
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by nobokov on May 4, 2024 15:32:30 GMT 1, If a work is flipped rather than hung, perhaps it's not a strong work of art.
If a work is flipped rather than hung, perhaps it's not a strong work of art.
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by The Greased Piglet on May 4, 2024 15:44:31 GMT 1, Well you're the exception, flipping is only discouraged in the art world because it cuts across the interests of galleries who want to control their markets. They've basically crated a culture of fear amongst collectors (of being black listed) and propagated a myth that collectors reselling art are in someway exploiting others. The reality is far different; when it comes to contemporary art, the illusion of scarcity for mass produced works is paramount to keep the pyramid from collapsing, so essentially galleries and a select few artists can get very rich. When you're selling something that has no intrinsic value or utility and isn't particularly rare, it requires an excessive control of the market and in far too many cases bad business practises. The way I see it is that if collectors want to beat them at their own game and take some of that money then good for them. Fairs fair. #artismoney Just about everything you say is clearly incorrect. You are either deluded or you say these things to try and justify your obviously bad behaviour.
Well you're the exception, flipping is only discouraged in the art world because it cuts across the interests of galleries who want to control their markets. They've basically crated a culture of fear amongst collectors (of being black listed) and propagated a myth that collectors reselling art are in someway exploiting others. The reality is far different; when it comes to contemporary art, the illusion of scarcity for mass produced works is paramount to keep the pyramid from collapsing, so essentially galleries and a select few artists can get very rich. When you're selling something that has no intrinsic value or utility and isn't particularly rare, it requires an excessive control of the market and in far too many cases bad business practises. The way I see it is that if collectors want to beat them at their own game and take some of that money then good for them. Fairs fair. #artismoney Just about everything you say is clearly incorrect. You are either deluded or you say these things to try and justify your obviously bad behaviour. Bad behaviour lol. Stop clutching your pearls and get down of your high horse. I guarantee most people find your moral lectures nauseating. The ones who think they’re the most virtuous are always the most obnoxious and two faced in my experience. Anyway enjoy holding all your bags, I’m sure once you pop your clogs your kids will sell them for pennies on the pound. |
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artlike
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by artlike on May 4, 2024 16:14:45 GMT 1, Over time yes, but not straight after release. I think you’ll find if people want to sell these within the first year or two they would prefer it done through themselves (hence offering that option, when they start hitting auctions after that your point has validity. We are talking in the here and now though. My apologies for questioning your ‘VERY insightful’ point though A flipper is someone whose sole intention was buying to resell (therefore depriving others who buy to display on their wall) - doesn’t matter if yesterday, a few months or next year. We know that some flippers will choose to work with auction houses or galleries then can remain anonymous and not be as brazen to sell here (unless via DMs). Another part of Heni’s business model is storing art for a cost. They know that many of these people bought to sell (and are not in between moving house). Sorry to differ in opinion with the Heni cheerleaders. 😉
Over time yes, but not straight after release. I think you’ll find if people want to sell these within the first year or two they would prefer it done through themselves (hence offering that option, when they start hitting auctions after that your point has validity. We are talking in the here and now though. My apologies for questioning your ‘VERY insightful’ point though A flipper is someone whose sole intention was buying to resell (therefore depriving others who buy to display on their wall) - doesn’t matter if yesterday, a few months or next year. We know that some flippers will choose to work with auction houses or galleries then can remain anonymous and not be as brazen to sell here (unless via DMs). Another part of Heni’s business model is storing art for a cost. They know that many of these people bought to sell (and are not in between moving house). Sorry to differ in opinion with the Heni cheerleaders. 😉 You're wrong, it's not flippers that deprive people of having them displayed on their wall. It's collectors who buy and store them in draws or under their beds. Those are the real people that deprive the art of being on the wall. |
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artlike
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by artlike on May 4, 2024 16:15:29 GMT 1, If a work is flipped rather than hung, perhaps it's not a strong work of art.
If a work is flipped rather than hung, perhaps it's not a strong work of art. Dear oh dear...what is this place coming to? |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Acme Thunderer on May 4, 2024 16:36:57 GMT 1, A flipper is someone whose sole intention was buying to resell (therefore depriving others who buy to display on their wall) - doesn’t matter if yesterday, a few months or next year. We know that some flippers will choose to work with auction houses or galleries then can remain anonymous and not be as brazen to sell here (unless via DMs). Another part of Heni’s business model is storing art for a cost. They know that many of these people bought to sell (and are not in between moving house). Sorry to differ in opinion with the Heni cheerleaders. 😉 You're wrong, it's not flippers that deprive people of having them displayed on their wall. It's collectors who buy and store them in draws or under their beds. Those are the real people that deprive the art of being on the wall.
This is the new logo for… PUB 🤣
A flipper is someone whose sole intention was buying to resell (therefore depriving others who buy to display on their wall) - doesn’t matter if yesterday, a few months or next year. We know that some flippers will choose to work with auction houses or galleries then can remain anonymous and not be as brazen to sell here (unless via DMs). Another part of Heni’s business model is storing art for a cost. They know that many of these people bought to sell (and are not in between moving house). Sorry to differ in opinion with the Heni cheerleaders. 😉 You're wrong, it's not flippers that deprive people of having them displayed on their wall. It's collectors who buy and store them in draws or under their beds. Those are the real people that deprive the art of being on the wall. Spot on. 🙌 This is the new logo for… PUB 🤣 |
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Display_arts on May 4, 2024 17:25:01 GMT 1, This time HENI is making a meticulous job with the allocations, the majority of the prints is going to well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs old members. Unless these prints reach the £50k on the market , this time will see very few for sale on secondary .
doubt - 1. they are all on sale already 2. As a customer of HENI I didnt get one and others that I know who bought alot there didnt get them either 3. why would HENI care?
I think they allocated a lot to people they stay in contact with
This time HENI is making a meticulous job with the allocations, the majority of the prints is going to well known Heni collectors and / or old NFTs old members. Unless these prints reach the £50k on the market , this time will see very few for sale on secondary .
doubt - 1. they are all on sale already 2. As a customer of HENI I didnt get one and others that I know who bought alot there didnt get them either 3. why would HENI care?
I think they allocated a lot to people they stay in contact with
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Londown 01
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by Londown 01 on May 5, 2024 18:40:22 GMT 1,
"Pope Francis has warned against the excessive commercialization of art and the destructive impact of the market on creativity during a speech to artists at the Venice Art Biennale."
"Pope Francis has warned against the excessive commercialization of art and the destructive impact of the market on creativity during a speech to artists at the Venice Art Biennale."
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LJCal
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by LJCal on May 5, 2024 22:06:10 GMT 1, "Pope Francis has warned against the excessive commercialization of art and the destructive impact of the market on creativity during a speech to artists at the Venice Art Biennale."
"Pope Francis has warned against the excessive commercialization of art and the destructive impact of the market on creativity during a speech to artists at the Venice Art Biennale." Respectfully but what makes the Pope an expert on either art or the art market? |
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lukas01
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by lukas01 on May 5, 2024 22:13:04 GMT 1, "Pope Francis has warned against the excessive commercialization of art and the destructive impact of the market on creativity during a speech to artists at the Venice Art Biennale." Respectfully but what makes the Pope an expert on either art or the art market?
You are absolutely right and I agree with you.
Someone told him what to say and he said it as expected. His speech sounded like that of someone from the arts sector. I don't quite understand why all the ''leaders'' of the world's religions have not yet started a hunger strike, to loudly ask for world peace.
By now you know very well which toilet paper is used in the bathroom. This behavior of some ''men'' doesn't surprise me.
"Pope Francis has warned against the excessive commercialization of art and the destructive impact of the market on creativity during a speech to artists at the Venice Art Biennale." Respectfully but what makes the Pope an expert on either art or the art market? You are absolutely right and I agree with you. Someone told him what to say and he said it as expected. His speech sounded like that of someone from the arts sector. I don't quite understand why all the ''leaders'' of the world's religions have not yet started a hunger strike, to loudly ask for world peace. By now you know very well which toilet paper is used in the bathroom. This behavior of some ''men'' doesn't surprise me. |
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J0NNY
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Damien Hirst H15 • The Archangels, by J0NNY on May 6, 2024 1:05:00 GMT 1, "Pope Francis has warned against the excessive commercialization of art and the destructive impact of the market on creativity during a speech to artists at the Venice Art Biennale." Respectfully but what makes the Pope an expert on either art or the art market?
"Pope Francis has warned against the excessive commercialization of art and the destructive impact of the market on creativity during a speech to artists at the Venice Art Biennale." Respectfully but what makes the Pope an expert on either art or the art market? I’d say the church have stolen quite the collection over the years |
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