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Banksy Welcome Mat, by Gentle Mental on Oct 23, 2019 4:15:46 GMT 1, Unlimited or limited, this hand sewn mat was made possible by the tragedies suffered by ppl trying to escape hell. People who are forced to risk their lives crossing dangerous water in faulty lifejackets. The lifejacket represents the risk and danger of their journey. And those awful life jackets have been smartly repurposed into a welcome mat of all things...The first thing someone sees when they arrive at your door and are invited into your home. Its genius and is poignant as heck. This piece is so full of meaning that it shocks me that people are arguing its place as a piece of art.
Not to beat this horse carcass into a bloody pulp, but I wonder what elements differentiate this other welcome mat that Love Welcomes offers from being a piece of artwork. Is it the text added to it, the artist's name, or the intentions of the artist or something else entirely? The same women are creating the product for the same cause and it is also called a Welcome mat and has the text "#LOVE#WELCOMES." Is this art as well?
Unlimited or limited, this hand sewn mat was made possible by the tragedies suffered by ppl trying to escape hell. People who are forced to risk their lives crossing dangerous water in faulty lifejackets. The lifejacket represents the risk and danger of their journey. And those awful life jackets have been smartly repurposed into a welcome mat of all things...The first thing someone sees when they arrive at your door and are invited into your home. Its genius and is poignant as heck. This piece is so full of meaning that it shocks me that people are arguing its place as a piece of art.
Not to beat this horse carcass into a bloody pulp, but I wonder what elements differentiate this other welcome mat that Love Welcomes offers from being a piece of artwork. Is it the text added to it, the artist's name, or the intentions of the artist or something else entirely? The same women are creating the product for the same cause and it is also called a Welcome mat and has the text "#LOVE#WELCOMES." Is this art as well?
Sigh..... Duchamp designed the Fountain, and made art history. Go read up and draw your own conclusion. If you still feel the Fountain is just a urinal - it's a urinal - that's totally ok. Just understand, and recognise the fact that, that particular Urinal made Banksy, Kaws, Hirst, Warhol, Ai Weiwei, Koons, ALL conceptual art possible. |
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nobokov
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by nobokov on Oct 23, 2019 4:15:51 GMT 1, Not to beat this horse carcass into a bloody pulp, but I wonder what elements differentiate this other welcome mat that Love Welcomes offers from being a piece of artwork. Is it the text added to it, the artist's name, or the intentions of the artist or something else entirely? The same women are creating the product for the same cause and it is also called a Welcome mat and has the text "#LOVE#WELCOMES." Is this art as well?
The Love Welcomes web site states that some people hang the mats on their walls. So some people consider them art yes. Are they art that might be hung in a museum or sent to auction? Probably not. But there is a whole other conversation to be had about how art becomes a commodity. Again, it's subjective. When I was living in Los Angeles, in 2004 I went to a Robert Smithson exhibit and remember seeing this work in the exhibit:  I remember seeing this work because immediately after going to the museum I went to this punk rock club called The Smell. Google photos of "The Smell" "Los Angeles" and you'll get the vibe. On my mother's grave, in one of the side rooms they had been doing some demo work. The room was taped off but you could still look in. Almost an identical pile of rubble was in the corner and I pulled my friend aside. I laughed so hard I almost started crying. We decided that it looked better in that context than at MOCA. Art is subjective. It's really that simple. You don't need to make it more complicated. I like that anecdote. Thank you. That bathroom in The Smell looks pretty unforgettable.
I know art is subjective, but I would think that if there are so many arguing for the artworthiness of the Banksy mat, there might be some who would purchase multiples of the other mats or discuss the beauty of these artworks, which in my opinion are much more beautiful and subtle.
Not to beat this horse carcass into a bloody pulp, but I wonder what elements differentiate this other welcome mat that Love Welcomes offers from being a piece of artwork. Is it the text added to it, the artist's name, or the intentions of the artist or something else entirely? The same women are creating the product for the same cause and it is also called a Welcome mat and has the text "#LOVE#WELCOMES." Is this art as well?
The Love Welcomes web site states that some people hang the mats on their walls. So some people consider them art yes. Are they art that might be hung in a museum or sent to auction? Probably not. But there is a whole other conversation to be had about how art becomes a commodity. Again, it's subjective. When I was living in Los Angeles, in 2004 I went to a Robert Smithson exhibit and remember seeing this work in the exhibit: I remember seeing this work because immediately after going to the museum I went to this punk rock club called The Smell. Google photos of "The Smell" "Los Angeles" and you'll get the vibe. On my mother's grave, in one of the side rooms they had been doing some demo work. The room was taped off but you could still look in. Almost an identical pile of rubble was in the corner and I pulled my friend aside. I laughed so hard I almost started crying. We decided that it looked better in that context than at MOCA. Art is subjective. It's really that simple. You don't need to make it more complicated. I like that anecdote. Thank you. That bathroom in The Smell looks pretty unforgettable.
I know art is subjective, but I would think that if there are so many arguing for the artworthiness of the Banksy mat, there might be some who would purchase multiples of the other mats or discuss the beauty of these artworks, which in my opinion are much more beautiful and subtle.
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nobokov
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by nobokov on Oct 23, 2019 4:21:34 GMT 1,
Not to beat this horse carcass into a bloody pulp, but I wonder what elements differentiate this other welcome mat that Love Welcomes offers from being a piece of artwork. Is it the text added to it, the artist's name, or the intentions of the artist or something else entirely? The same women are creating the product for the same cause and it is also called a Welcome mat and has the text "#LOVE#WELCOMES." Is this art as well?
Yes. It is art. It's just not as 'valuable' because that mat is missing the banksy association. We cant confuse monetary value with artistic merit though. But ya... to your point...their mat is missing key elements that convey the theme such as the 'Welcome' text. That is a big differentiator for sure. Plus I think 'intent' is important too. Their intention was not the same as Banksy's was. They weren't looking to create art or tell a story per se. They were just looking to create a livelihood. Which I guess you might call art in itself.
Not to beat this horse carcass into a bloody pulp, but I wonder what elements differentiate this other welcome mat that Love Welcomes offers from being a piece of artwork. Is it the text added to it, the artist's name, or the intentions of the artist or something else entirely? The same women are creating the product for the same cause and it is also called a Welcome mat and has the text "#LOVE#WELCOMES." Is this art as well?
Yes. It is art. It's just not as 'valuable' because that mat is missing the banksy association. We cant confuse monetary value with artistic merit though. But ya... to your point...their mat is missing key elements that convey the theme such as the 'Welcome' text. That is a big differentiator for sure. Plus I think 'intent' is important too. Their intention was not the same as Banksy's was. They weren't looking to create art or tell a story per se. They were just looking to create a livelihood. Which I guess you might call art in itself. Yeah that's why I think that this entire narrative that the mat is artwork is false. This artwork is defined solely by it's monetary value right? Because we neither know for sure what the intent is for the women and organization, nor do we know the intent of Banksy. If we were to assume that both mats were created with the intention of producing artwork, would not Banksy's version look a bit hackneyed and tacky? |
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pfffffffffft
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by pfffffffffft on Oct 23, 2019 4:27:29 GMT 1, The Love Welcomes web site states that some people hang the mats on their walls. So some people consider them art yes. Are they art that might be hung in a museum or sent to auction? Probably not. But there is a whole other conversation to be had about how art becomes a commodity. Again, it's subjective. When I was living in Los Angeles, in 2004 I went to a Robert Smithson exhibit and remember seeing this work in the exhibit: I remember seeing this work because immediately after going to the museum I went to this punk rock club called The Smell. Google photos of "The Smell" "Los Angeles" and you'll get the vibe. On my mother's grave, in one of the side rooms they had been doing some demo work. The room was taped off but you could still look in. Almost an identical pile of rubble was in the corner and I pulled my friend aside. I laughed so hard I almost started crying. We decided that it looked better in that context than at MOCA. Art is subjective. It's really that simple. You don't need to make it more complicated. I like that anecdote. Thank you. That bathroom in The Smell looks pretty unforgettable.
I know art is subjective, but I would think that if there are so many arguing for the artworthiness of the Banksy mat, there might be some who would purchase multiples of the other mats or discuss the beauty of these artworks, which in my opinion are much more beautiful and subtle.
You, or they, may be conflating artworthiness with commodification. Banksy's status as an artist makes it art. There's also a message and a meaning there. But when you view it, out of context, it may not be as clearcut as some of his other works.
The meaning behind the mat is powerful and that extra connection is enough to some to view it as a more transformative piece than you do. The window with the life preservers stacked, the pallets, and the level hit me very hard. I definitely saw that as art where many others saw it as a pile of junk.
The Smell was absolutely epic. Honestly, I forgot Robert Smithson's name and had to google it to find it but I'll never ever forget that piece from the exhibit or what it taught me about art hahahahaha. To this day I remember how hard my friend and I were laughing.
The Love Welcomes web site states that some people hang the mats on their walls. So some people consider them art yes. Are they art that might be hung in a museum or sent to auction? Probably not. But there is a whole other conversation to be had about how art becomes a commodity. Again, it's subjective. When I was living in Los Angeles, in 2004 I went to a Robert Smithson exhibit and remember seeing this work in the exhibit: I remember seeing this work because immediately after going to the museum I went to this punk rock club called The Smell. Google photos of "The Smell" "Los Angeles" and you'll get the vibe. On my mother's grave, in one of the side rooms they had been doing some demo work. The room was taped off but you could still look in. Almost an identical pile of rubble was in the corner and I pulled my friend aside. I laughed so hard I almost started crying. We decided that it looked better in that context than at MOCA. Art is subjective. It's really that simple. You don't need to make it more complicated. I like that anecdote. Thank you. That bathroom in The Smell looks pretty unforgettable.
I know art is subjective, but I would think that if there are so many arguing for the artworthiness of the Banksy mat, there might be some who would purchase multiples of the other mats or discuss the beauty of these artworks, which in my opinion are much more beautiful and subtle.
You, or they, may be conflating artworthiness with commodification. Banksy's status as an artist makes it art. There's also a message and a meaning there. But when you view it, out of context, it may not be as clearcut as some of his other works. The meaning behind the mat is powerful and that extra connection is enough to some to view it as a more transformative piece than you do. The window with the life preservers stacked, the pallets, and the level hit me very hard. I definitely saw that as art where many others saw it as a pile of junk. The Smell was absolutely epic. Honestly, I forgot Robert Smithson's name and had to google it to find it but I'll never ever forget that piece from the exhibit or what it taught me about art hahahahaha. To this day I remember how hard my friend and I were laughing. |
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anodyne13
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April 2008
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by anodyne13 on Oct 23, 2019 4:29:38 GMT 1, Art is a function of context. The artist, the history, the implementation, the time, the place, etc. Just take whatever arguments you are making now about the Welcome Mat and imagine having the same argument in 1917 about Duchampโs โFountainโ Urinal.
Art is a function of context. The artist, the history, the implementation, the time, the place, etc. Just take whatever arguments you are making now about the Welcome Mat and imagine having the same argument in 1917 about Duchampโs โFountainโ Urinal.
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teabaggins
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November 2018
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by teabaggins on Oct 23, 2019 4:36:43 GMT 1, Warholโs Brillo Box ..... Art? In the mid-1960s, Warhol carried his consumer-product imagery into the realm of sculpture. Calling to mind a factory assembly line, Warhol employed carpenters to construct numerous plywood boxes identical in size and shape to supermarket cartons. With assistance from Gerard Malanga and Billy Linich, he painted and silkscreened the boxes with different consumer product logos: Kelloggโs corn ๏ฌakes, Brillo soap pads, Mottโs apple juice, Del Monte peaches, and Heinz ketchup. The ๏ฌnished sculptures were virtually indistinguishable from their cardboard supermarket counterparts. Warhol ๏ฌrst exhibited these at the Stable Gallery in 1964, cramming the space with stacked boxes that recalled a cramped grocery warehouse. He invited collectors to buy them by the stack, and, though they did not sell well, the boxes caused controversy. In reference to his boxes, Warhol later said that he โwanted something ordinary,โ and it was this mundane, commercial subject matter that infuriated the critics. The perfectly blank โmachine-madeโ look of Warholโs boxes contrasted sharply with the gestural brushstrokes of abstract expressionist paintings. Does that mean that you feel that these other mats are also art?
Not necessarily. Iโd consider it a product of design as was intended and sold by the manufacturer. In the same way that I would not consider an actual Brillo Box art but also a product of design. Thatโs said I (and historically most) would consider Warholโs (artist) almost identical interpretation of the Brillo Box along with his creative intention and contextual display (much as Banksy has done) a work or works of art.
Warholโs Brillo Box ..... Art? In the mid-1960s, Warhol carried his consumer-product imagery into the realm of sculpture. Calling to mind a factory assembly line, Warhol employed carpenters to construct numerous plywood boxes identical in size and shape to supermarket cartons. With assistance from Gerard Malanga and Billy Linich, he painted and silkscreened the boxes with different consumer product logos: Kelloggโs corn ๏ฌakes, Brillo soap pads, Mottโs apple juice, Del Monte peaches, and Heinz ketchup. The ๏ฌnished sculptures were virtually indistinguishable from their cardboard supermarket counterparts. Warhol ๏ฌrst exhibited these at the Stable Gallery in 1964, cramming the space with stacked boxes that recalled a cramped grocery warehouse. He invited collectors to buy them by the stack, and, though they did not sell well, the boxes caused controversy. In reference to his boxes, Warhol later said that he โwanted something ordinary,โ and it was this mundane, commercial subject matter that infuriated the critics. The perfectly blank โmachine-madeโ look of Warholโs boxes contrasted sharply with the gestural brushstrokes of abstract expressionist paintings. Does that mean that you feel that these other mats are also art? Not necessarily. Iโd consider it a product of design as was intended and sold by the manufacturer. In the same way that I would not consider an actual Brillo Box art but also a product of design. Thatโs said I (and historically most) would consider Warholโs (artist) almost identical interpretation of the Brillo Box along with his creative intention and contextual display (much as Banksy has done) a work or works of art. |
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d.r. perseus
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by d.r. perseus on Oct 23, 2019 4:44:18 GMT 1, I would actually call the other mats craftmenship. The banksy May made with the same craft but with the artist defining the context thus its art.
I would actually call the other mats craftmenship. The banksy May made with the same craft but with the artist defining the context thus its art.
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tab1
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by tab1 on Oct 23, 2019 4:45:09 GMT 1, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art
It is derived from technical skill and has craft, any material form crafted could be viewed as art .
Any item could be utilised by an artist to project his meaning in art.
Back to reality this was not created by banksy but authorised it still has a place as an item of art , has meaning and creates discussion , any person has the ability to produce art , in the short time this been on the site it has created discussion about world events which has not been mentioned in length here before
Art is subjective and the thought behind this item may cause emotions to the viewer with the meaning behind the work or may not , seems everyone has to prove and provide reasoning , it is good to have differing views at times , creates progress .
Everyone's own personal choice to purchase or people seeking reasons if it can flip ๐
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArtIt is derived from technical skill and has craft, any material form crafted could be viewed as art . Any item could be utilised by an artist to project his meaning in art. Back to reality this was not created by banksy but authorised it still has a place as an item of art , has meaning and creates discussion , any person has the ability to produce art , in the short time this been on the site it has created discussion about world events which has not been mentioned in length here before Art is subjective and the thought behind this item may cause emotions to the viewer with the meaning behind the work or may not , seems everyone has to prove and provide reasoning , it is good to have differing views at times , creates progress . Everyone's own personal choice to purchase or people seeking reasons if it can flip ๐
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nobokov
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February 2016
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by nobokov on Oct 23, 2019 4:47:46 GMT 1, Art is a function of context. The artist, the history, the implementation, the time, the place, etc. Just take whatever arguments you are making now about the Welcome Mat and imagine having the same argument in 1917 about Duchampโs โFountainโ Urinal. Personally, I see Duchamp's readymades as manipulation. Manipulating people to buy into a lie just as in the film There Will Be Blood, the Eli character puts on a show to manipulate his followers to believe. If one can convince people to see a urinal or vacuum cleaner as a work of art, you can convince these people to buy anything. So while the believers see Koons' ShopVac as beautiful conceptual work, the non-believers see that as something else entirely.
Art is a function of context. The artist, the history, the implementation, the time, the place, etc. Just take whatever arguments you are making now about the Welcome Mat and imagine having the same argument in 1917 about Duchampโs โFountainโ Urinal. Personally, I see Duchamp's readymades as manipulation. Manipulating people to buy into a lie just as in the film There Will Be Blood, the Eli character puts on a show to manipulate his followers to believe. If one can convince people to see a urinal or vacuum cleaner as a work of art, you can convince these people to buy anything. So while the believers see Koons' ShopVac as beautiful conceptual work, the non-believers see that as something else entirely.
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by Gentle Mental on Oct 23, 2019 5:03:27 GMT 1, Art is a function of context. The artist, the history, the implementation, the time, the place, etc. Just take whatever arguments you are making now about the Welcome Mat and imagine having the same argument in 1917 about Duchampโs โFountainโ Urinal. Personally, I see Duchamp's readymades as manipulation. Manipulating people to buy into a lie just as in the film There Will Be Blood, the Eli character puts on a show to manipulate his followers to believe. If one can convince people to see a urinal or vacuum cleaner as a work of art, you can convince these people to buy anything. So while the believers see Koons' ShopVac as beautiful conceptual work, the non-believers see that as something else entirely.
Artists are manipulator. Youโre buying the manipulation. Thatโs the art. Scrawl by Basquait. Pollock. Patch or paint by Rothko. Brillo boxes and I bet everything in your collection are manipulations. Things anyone else could do, but would worth less. The best ones are the most manipulative. Ie. Meaningful.
Art is a function of context. The artist, the history, the implementation, the time, the place, etc. Just take whatever arguments you are making now about the Welcome Mat and imagine having the same argument in 1917 about Duchampโs โFountainโ Urinal. Personally, I see Duchamp's readymades as manipulation. Manipulating people to buy into a lie just as in the film There Will Be Blood, the Eli character puts on a show to manipulate his followers to believe. If one can convince people to see a urinal or vacuum cleaner as a work of art, you can convince these people to buy anything. So while the believers see Koons' ShopVac as beautiful conceptual work, the non-believers see that as something else entirely.
Artists are manipulator. Youโre buying the manipulation. Thatโs the art. Scrawl by Basquait. Pollock. Patch or paint by Rothko. Brillo boxes and I bet everything in your collection are manipulations. Things anyone else could do, but would worth less. The best ones are the most manipulative. Ie. Meaningful. |
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nobokov
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February 2016
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by nobokov on Oct 23, 2019 5:08:18 GMT 1, I would actually call the other mats craftmenship. The banksy May made with the same craft but with the artist defining the context thus its art. But isn't the context in both versions of the mat the same?
If one were to see these mats as conceptual art, one could argue that Love Welcomes is the creator of the concept and artwork and Banksy is just using his visibility to bring attention to the organization for a good purpose, and the organization and its craftspeople are the artists.
But, if the intention was not to create works of art, but just to create a wonderful product for a wonderful purpose, can anyone beyond the producer of the product, elevate that to be called an artwork? Who has the ultimate right? In post-Duchampian times, I guess we can argue that everyone has the right to have the interpretation that anything is art. I'm not sure I agree.
I would actually call the other mats craftmenship. The banksy May made with the same craft but with the artist defining the context thus its art. But isn't the context in both versions of the mat the same?
If one were to see these mats as conceptual art, one could argue that Love Welcomes is the creator of the concept and artwork and Banksy is just using his visibility to bring attention to the organization for a good purpose, and the organization and its craftspeople are the artists.
But, if the intention was not to create works of art, but just to create a wonderful product for a wonderful purpose, can anyone beyond the producer of the product, elevate that to be called an artwork? Who has the ultimate right? In post-Duchampian times, I guess we can argue that everyone has the right to have the interpretation that anything is art. I'm not sure I agree.
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d.r. perseus
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December 2014
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by d.r. perseus on Oct 23, 2019 5:16:50 GMT 1, Will answer later. Wine time 
Will answer later. Wine time |
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anodyne13
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 432
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April 2008
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by anodyne13 on Oct 23, 2019 5:24:42 GMT 1, I would actually call the other mats craftmenship. The banksy May made with the same craft but with the artist defining the context thus its art. But isn't the context in both versions of the mat the same?
If one were to see these mats as conceptual art, one could argue that Love Welcomes is the creator of the concept and artwork and Banksy is just using his visibility to bring attention to the organization for a good purpose, and the organization and its craftspeople are the artists.
But, if the intention was not to create works of art, but just to create a wonderful product for a wonderful purpose, can anyone beyond the producer of the product, elevate that to be called an artwork? Who has the ultimate right? In post-Duchampian times, I guess we can argue that everyone has the right to have the interpretation that anything is art. I'm not sure I agree.
The context is very different. The Banksy piece is an artist drawing specific attention to the immigration crisis through an artwork that uses the irony of a literal โwelcome matโ to contrast the the lack of a figurative welcome mat that is not being laid out for people seeking refuge from the worst of conditions when they would need to be welcomed the most. To further drive home the point the mat utilizes and incorporates actual abandoned life vests by these refugees to drive the point home. All of that thought and context is absent from the other mats that were not being produced by the artist. The โnormalโ mats could also be determined to have artistic value, but they certainly donโt have the same context or intention of thought and process.
I would actually call the other mats craftmenship. The banksy May made with the same craft but with the artist defining the context thus its art. But isn't the context in both versions of the mat the same?
If one were to see these mats as conceptual art, one could argue that Love Welcomes is the creator of the concept and artwork and Banksy is just using his visibility to bring attention to the organization for a good purpose, and the organization and its craftspeople are the artists.
But, if the intention was not to create works of art, but just to create a wonderful product for a wonderful purpose, can anyone beyond the producer of the product, elevate that to be called an artwork? Who has the ultimate right? In post-Duchampian times, I guess we can argue that everyone has the right to have the interpretation that anything is art. I'm not sure I agree.
The context is very different. The Banksy piece is an artist drawing specific attention to the immigration crisis through an artwork that uses the irony of a literal โwelcome matโ to contrast the the lack of a figurative welcome mat that is not being laid out for people seeking refuge from the worst of conditions when they would need to be welcomed the most. To further drive home the point the mat utilizes and incorporates actual abandoned life vests by these refugees to drive the point home. All of that thought and context is absent from the other mats that were not being produced by the artist. The โnormalโ mats could also be determined to have artistic value, but they certainly donโt have the same context or intention of thought and process. |
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Inknart
Junior Member
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April 2015
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by Inknart on Oct 23, 2019 5:25:08 GMT 1, Still so confused. Banksy designs and they produce. How is this any different from every single print we buy , thatโs designed and printed with different printing houses? Or what about unsigned prints, that banksy literally never touched and who knows who or if some random screened some of them ? You think every other item Outside of an actual original is hand crafted by every artist? You think kaws sits there and manufactures every toy? Iโm failing to understand I suppose.
Still so confused. Banksy designs and they produce. How is this any different from every single print we buy , thatโs designed and printed with different printing houses? Or what about unsigned prints, that banksy literally never touched and who knows who or if some random screened some of them ? You think every other item Outside of an actual original is hand crafted by every artist? You think kaws sits there and manufactures every toy? Iโm failing to understand I suppose.
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nobokov
Junior Member
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February 2016
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by nobokov on Oct 23, 2019 5:45:33 GMT 1, But isn't the context in both versions of the mat the same?
If one were to see these mats as conceptual art, one could argue that Love Welcomes is the creator of the concept and artwork and Banksy is just using his visibility to bring attention to the organization for a good purpose, and the organization and its craftspeople are the artists.
But, if the intention was not to create works of art, but just to create a wonderful product for a wonderful purpose, can anyone beyond the producer of the product, elevate that to be called an artwork? Who has the ultimate right? In post-Duchampian times, I guess we can argue that everyone has the right to have the interpretation that anything is art. I'm not sure I agree.
The context is very different. The Banksy piece is an artist drawing specific attention to the immigration crisis through an artwork that uses the irony of a literal โwelcome matโ to contrast the the lack of a figurative welcome mat that is not being laid out for people seeking refuge from the worst of conditions when they would need to be welcomed the most. To further drive home the point the mat utilizes and incorporates actual abandoned life vests by these refugees to drive the point home. All of that thought and context is absent from the other mats that were not being produced by the artist. The โnormalโ mats could also be determined to have artistic value, but they certainly donโt have the same context or intention of thought and process. That's a beautiful interpretation. But isn't that your personal interpretation and not something that has been stated by Banksy?
Take a look at this Love Welcomes page that describes their history and intentions. I don't see a difference in context.
I don't think it's been stated explicitly anywhere that the shop sells anything other than products. I feel like the idea of the shop is to question what art is or isn't. It asks what differentiates art from merch?
In the legal disclaimer it says, "Feel free to make merch for your own personal entertainment and non-profit activism for good causes. However, selling reproductions, creating your own line of merchandise and fraudulently misrepresenting knock off Banksy products as โofficialโ is illegal, obviously a bit wrong and may result in legal action."
I don't know, I think this is worthwhile conversation that we're all having and a refreshing change from the normal goings on here. But perhaps I'm just arguing against something that is so obviously true to most that my thinking appears nonsensical.
But isn't the context in both versions of the mat the same?
If one were to see these mats as conceptual art, one could argue that Love Welcomes is the creator of the concept and artwork and Banksy is just using his visibility to bring attention to the organization for a good purpose, and the organization and its craftspeople are the artists.
But, if the intention was not to create works of art, but just to create a wonderful product for a wonderful purpose, can anyone beyond the producer of the product, elevate that to be called an artwork? Who has the ultimate right? In post-Duchampian times, I guess we can argue that everyone has the right to have the interpretation that anything is art. I'm not sure I agree.
The context is very different. The Banksy piece is an artist drawing specific attention to the immigration crisis through an artwork that uses the irony of a literal โwelcome matโ to contrast the the lack of a figurative welcome mat that is not being laid out for people seeking refuge from the worst of conditions when they would need to be welcomed the most. To further drive home the point the mat utilizes and incorporates actual abandoned life vests by these refugees to drive the point home. All of that thought and context is absent from the other mats that were not being produced by the artist. The โnormalโ mats could also be determined to have artistic value, but they certainly donโt have the same context or intention of thought and process. That's a beautiful interpretation. But isn't that your personal interpretation and not something that has been stated by Banksy?
Take a look at this Love Welcomes page that describes their history and intentions. I don't see a difference in context.
I don't think it's been stated explicitly anywhere that the shop sells anything other than products. I feel like the idea of the shop is to question what art is or isn't. It asks what differentiates art from merch?
In the legal disclaimer it says, "Feel free to make merch for your own personal entertainment and non-profit activism for good causes. However, selling reproductions, creating your own line of merchandise and fraudulently misrepresenting knock off Banksy products as โofficialโ is illegal, obviously a bit wrong and may result in legal action."
I don't know, I think this is worthwhile conversation that we're all having and a refreshing change from the normal goings on here. But perhaps I'm just arguing against something that is so obviously true to most that my thinking appears nonsensical.
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19818914
Junior Member
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October 2018
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by 19818914 on Oct 23, 2019 6:02:24 GMT 1, Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints.
Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints.
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nobokov
Junior Member
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February 2016
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by nobokov on Oct 23, 2019 6:06:31 GMT 1, Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints.
Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints. You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art....kidding of course |
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19818914
Junior Member
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October 2018
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by 19818914 on Oct 23, 2019 6:11:34 GMT 1, Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints. You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art....
I get it. You want to argue but you know damn well itโs art. It was in the shop window with all the other items. It was just sold through a different website. Still art.
Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints. You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art.... I get it. You want to argue but you know damn well itโs art. It was in the shop window with all the other items. It was just sold through a different website. Still art. |
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nex
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February 2009
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by nex on Oct 23, 2019 7:29:27 GMT 1, I think this place is having a nervous breakdown
I think this place is having a nervous breakdown
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dilu
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November 2010
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by dilu on Oct 23, 2019 7:35:36 GMT 1, You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art.... I get it. You want to argue but you know damn well itโs art. It was in the shop window with all the other items. It was just sold through a different website. Still art.
Like Mr B said โdoes art matter?โ
You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art.... I get it. You want to argue but you know damn well itโs art. It was in the shop window with all the other items. It was just sold through a different website. Still art. Like Mr B said โdoes art matter?โ |
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dilu
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November 2010
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by dilu on Oct 23, 2019 7:36:30 GMT 1, Or are we just chasing names and desperate to grab hold of coat tails.
Or are we just chasing names and desperate to grab hold of coat tails.
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lv90210
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January 2018
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by lv90210 on Oct 23, 2019 7:40:26 GMT 1, These mats are never going to be unlimited, I dont think its logistically possible.
If you boys what some Banksy so bad, go and buy an unsigned print before its too late.
These mats are never going to be unlimited, I dont think its logistically possible.
If you boys what some Banksy so bad, go and buy an unsigned print before its too late.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 7:40:40 GMT 1, Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints. You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art....kidding of course
What art do you like? Interested to know your context for what constitutes art, because your reasons for arguing this isn't art are on the 'my kid could do that' level.
You're talking about what the physical object is rather than why it was created. The why is the important part in whether or not something is art. Was the creator trying to convey something beyond just producing a physical object? In this case, absolutely yes. In the case of the other Love Welcomes mats, I'd say no, but some might disagree.
You can argue that anything is or isn't art based on whether you choose to engage with it. You can argue a Yayoi Kusama pumpkin is just a knick-knack. You can argue a Kaws is just a squiggly Snoopy. You can argue Warhol is just soup labels. You can argue Anish Kapoor just makes mirrors. If you choose not to consider the deeper intent then any conversation about its artistic merits becomes pointless.
Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints. You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art....kidding of course What art do you like? Interested to know your context for what constitutes art, because your reasons for arguing this isn't art are on the 'my kid could do that' level. You're talking about what the physical object is rather than why it was created. The why is the important part in whether or not something is art. Was the creator trying to convey something beyond just producing a physical object? In this case, absolutely yes. In the case of the other Love Welcomes mats, I'd say no, but some might disagree. You can argue that anything is or isn't art based on whether you choose to engage with it. You can argue a Yayoi Kusama pumpkin is just a knick-knack. You can argue a Kaws is just a squiggly Snoopy. You can argue Warhol is just soup labels. You can argue Anish Kapoor just makes mirrors. If you choose not to consider the deeper intent then any conversation about its artistic merits becomes pointless. |
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tab1
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September 2011
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by tab1 on Oct 23, 2019 8:07:18 GMT 1, Are the last 3 pages , the individual responses written to art matters on the gdp check out question?๐๐ฉ
Are the last 3 pages , the individual responses written to art matters on the gdp check out question?๐๐ฉ
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lv90210
Junior Member
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by lv90210 on Oct 23, 2019 8:07:58 GMT 1, 27 pages for a mat - brilliant !
27 pages for a mat - brilliant !
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tab1
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by tab1 on Oct 23, 2019 8:28:47 GMT 1, 27 pages for mat - brilliant !ย
The site will crash when the prints are released
27 pages for mat - brilliant !ย The site will crash when the prints are released |
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tab1
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by tab1 on Oct 23, 2019 8:31:48 GMT 1, Getting lost on the thread , the design and concept behind the production of the mat is by banksy
Getting lost on the thread , the design and concept behind the production of the mat is by banksy
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dilu
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November 2010
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by dilu on Oct 23, 2019 8:45:08 GMT 1, The choices come down to:
Itโs art. Banksys and artist itโs his concept therefore itโs art..like Duchamps urinal. Now itโs art it can be celebrated as art and enjoyed as art. Whether as a wall hanging or mat.
I studied with a guy who later went on to work for Anish Kopoor though he excepted he was just a small cog in the artists mind.
Caveat, nothing can be added to the mat like a life vest because thatโs like defacing or adding to the artists work...strictly forbidden.
It could be art. But debate rages on whether something endorsed and advertised by an artist is actually art. The quality, workmanship, edition fuel the debating. Thereโs high brow comments and bog down name calling.
Caveat like ยฃ10 posters or Ikea frames these will sell and sell out leaving us confused and annoyed we never took up the opportunity to buy one to say we where there and then to have it sold on or thrown away once we are dead.
It canโt be art. A refugee woman sewed the word โwelcomeโ into a mat. A woman who is unlikely to known who Banksy was and will never meet. But forever be grateful for. And do where politicians and governments have let her down along comes this person from an English town thrown her a life vest.
Bottom line, itโs more than art we are discussing itโs helping strangers.
The choices come down to:
Itโs art. Banksys and artist itโs his concept therefore itโs art..like Duchamps urinal. Now itโs art it can be celebrated as art and enjoyed as art. Whether as a wall hanging or mat.
I studied with a guy who later went on to work for Anish Kopoor though he excepted he was just a small cog in the artists mind.
Caveat, nothing can be added to the mat like a life vest because thatโs like defacing or adding to the artists work...strictly forbidden.
It could be art. But debate rages on whether something endorsed and advertised by an artist is actually art. The quality, workmanship, edition fuel the debating. Thereโs high brow comments and bog down name calling.
Caveat like ยฃ10 posters or Ikea frames these will sell and sell out leaving us confused and annoyed we never took up the opportunity to buy one to say we where there and then to have it sold on or thrown away once we are dead.
It canโt be art. A refugee woman sewed the word โwelcomeโ into a mat. A woman who is unlikely to known who Banksy was and will never meet. But forever be grateful for. And do where politicians and governments have let her down along comes this person from an English town thrown her a life vest.
Bottom line, itโs more than art we are discussing itโs helping strangers.
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jellya
Junior Member
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November 2006
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by jellya on Oct 23, 2019 9:08:01 GMT 1, If anyone else decides they don't want to buy theirs get in touch.
If anyone else decides they don't want to buy theirs get in touch.
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blerd
Junior Member
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November 2016
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Banksy Welcome Mat, by blerd on Oct 23, 2019 9:53:44 GMT 1, Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints. You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art....kidding of course
Itโs a rug that was designed by Banksy. Just like the clock. Just like the prints. You should've seen the sandwiches that he designed for his kids this morning. Absolute works of art....kidding of course Deja vu. I said get some air! |
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