[gravity1]

Silver flags went for $10k. Has to be a new record by far.

[Union Eighteen]

Hey everyone .. looking for some insights from the experts ..... Hopefully I posted this on the right place.

I saw this auction for uncut tenners (signed) with COA but have been told that pest control does not authenticate Tenners. Does anyone know the truth? What's the general consensus on a piece like this..? would you ever consider it at any price? If so then where do you value it? under 5k, 5 to 10, 10 to 20? 20+??

"Di-Faced Tenners (uncut sheet)" by Banksy on Artsy

www.artsy.net/artwork/banksy-di-faced-tenners-uncut-sheet

[Sundowner]

These are legit, numbered, signed and come with a Pest Control COA

[Laugh Now 10]

I agree with the above and also note that this is the “AP” version (I believe) of the editioned print

[Union Eighteen]

Thanks to both of you.

Have you ever seen any signed uncut sheets that are not from the edition? Assuming pest control would not authenticate something that was not part of an official editon, correct?

[Laugh Now 10]

Oct 16, 2017 21:29:25 GMT 1 Union Eighteen said:

Thanks to both of you.

Have you ever seen any signed uncut sheets that are not from the edition? Assuming pest control would not authenticate something that was not part of an official editon, correct?

It depends. Certain “gift prints”, outside the standard edition, do receive COA’s from Pest Control and the language on the document will be reflective of same. Good luck!

[Viking Surfer]

Oct 16, 2017 21:29:25 GMT 1 Union Eighteen said:

Thanks to both of you.

Have you ever seen any signed uncut sheets that are not from the edition? Assuming pest control would not authenticate something that was not part of an official editon, correct?

if it's signed, then it'll most likely have a Pest Control COA.

As Laughnow pointed out, most gift prints have eventually been given a COA, I've seen lots of dedicated / outside of edition signed gift prints with coas.

However, if you come across a signed uncut sheet without a COA, be very careful as there is a large quantity of backdoors of this print. It wouldn't be hard to add your own signature over the top.

[Union Eighteen]

Good to know! Thanks Viking Surfer

[Laugh Now 10]

As for value, this appears to be a signed Banksy print with Pest Control COA + it’s from a small edition so this print should achieve way north of $20K. Not my favorite image, but if you love it then try to confirm the details of the COA with the auction house prior to dropping $$$ or £££. Once again, good luck.

[Union Eighteen]

Thanks Laugh Now 10 .. I really appreciate everyone's feedback.. super helpful. I was actually looking at a similar piece through private sale but have doubts about authenticity so am not moving forward with it. The info you guys provided was invaluable. Thanks again.

[fm1975]

Hi All,

Just wondered about Julien's Auctions. Is this a legitimate place for purchasing?

Too many Haring Subway Drawings & Invader Originals.... Not sure if they come with provenance/certification as their website do not include further information as other auction houses.

Any experience from any user of this Forum? Please share with me.

Thanks

[maxamaxa2]

In general they don’t have a clue and sell whatever comes in their door.
So stay awake and if you find something make sure you get a shipping quote before bidding, have had some insane quotes from them.
The hammer price is above average, just to keep in mind

[fm1975]

Apr 5, 2018 22:43:26 GMT 1 god’s ultimate noise said:

Apr 5, 2018 21:18:16 GMT 1 fm1975 said:

Hi All,

Just wondered about Julien's Auctions. Is this a legitimate place for purchasing?

Too many Haring Subway Drawings & Invader Originals.... Not sure if they come with provenance/certification as their website do not include further information as other auction houses.

Any experience from any user of this Forum? Please share with me.

Thanks

You appear to have answered your own question.

Thanks god

[longshanks]

Seems they have no qualms trying to shift removed invader street pieces also. Shame on you Julien’s

[Laugh Now 10]

The place may be “legitimate” but the pieces may not be. Especially if you are looking for subway art from Haring, street art from Banksy, etc. They take what is given to them, that is “sellable”, and I don’t think they go above and beyond that to vet the legitimacy of a given piece. Good luck.

[mose]

Apr 5, 2018 21:18:16 GMT 1 fm1975 said:

Hi All,

Just wondered about Julien's Auctions. Is this a legitimate place for purchasing?

Too many Haring Subway Drawings & Invader Originals.... Not sure if they come with provenance/certification as their website do not include further information as other auction houses.

Any experience from any user of this Forum? Please share with me.

Thanks

There is really no such thing as a Haring subway drawing with certification.  Haring did not consider them artwork and his foundation would not authenticate them(and stopped authenticating period in September of 2012).

Personally, I love them but I would not touch one unless it came from Tony Shafrazi.

[met]

Apr 5, 2018 21:18:16 GMT 1 fm1975 said:

Hi All,

Just wondered about Julien's Auctions. Is this a legitimate place for purchasing?

Too many Haring Subway Drawings & Invader Originals.... Not sure if they come with provenance/certification as their website do not include further information as other auction houses.

Any experience from any user of this Forum? Please share with me.

Thanks

I've commented a few times about Julien's Auctions.

If you have the inclination, have a look through these threads:

2017: urbanartassociation.com/thread/147683/juliens-auction-street-invaders-banksy

2015: urbanartassociation.com/thread/133258/julien-auction-2015-stolen-pieces

2014: urbanartassociation.com/thread/120576/gimme-banksy-5-quids


The reason for my repetitive efforts here is that I consider Julien's more of a threat than your average Mickey Mouse establishment. It's relatively high-profile, and has the outward appearance of being reputable. This veneer of legitimacy often encourages people to drop their guard. It means buyers are more easily duped than if they were considering a purchase from an unknown venue.

___________


Regarding street art, Julien's has a track record of selling unauthenticated works, including pieces removed — or purportedly removed — from the street. This is a policy position which collectors may or may not be happy about.

But there's a separate problem, even for those who are comfortable buying street pieces. Based on a number of consignments accepted and publicised by the auction house over the years, the specialists there have repeatedly betrayed:

(i) their ignorance of street art; and
(ii) their incompetence at carrying out due diligence with any degree of thoroughness.

Of course, another possibility is that the specialists are taking a deliberately nonchalant approach to matters of authenticity. At best, this would be irresponsible. At worst, corrupt.

___________


Under these circumstances, where the auction house cannot be fully relied upon to deliver work actually created by the relevant artist, the act of purchasing becomes a bit of a crapshoot.

Although I enjoy risk in certain areas of life, peace of mind is a priority for me when it comes to the genuineness of work in my collection.

[fm1975]

Thanks met.
Very interesting & useful post.

[Pattycakes]

They are really very shady indeed, definitely avoid them like the proverbial plague

[russkov]

www.julienslive.com/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/258/

Is there a single piece which is either not stolen or not fake??

[Pattycakes]

What a horrible sale, I can tell you now that those nasty fake "Haring" subway drawings, are fakes supplied by Bleca-meca. He was trying to sell these online a few years ago and through a few auction sales in Europe, seems he's got Julien's to take them.

[chevyav53]

Bought one item from them in 2016, was not happy and would not again. Stay away.

[thos]

I got an item from them about a year ago. It was my first real auction ever, so it was "fun" to learn all about the buyer's premium charge (about which I read Julien's is apparently pretty high).

But aside from my own lack of due diligence on that subject, they also wanted to charge me a ton to ship a my item (a screen print) to SF from southern California. I mean like almost $400... like I'd just doubled my hammer price. I had to do a lot of work to get them to ship it with someone else and save me a lot of money. That left a really bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going through that again.

[chevyav53]

Apr 6, 2018 17:55:03 GMT 1 thos said:

I got an item from them about a year ago. It was my first real auction ever, so it was "fun" to learn all about the buyer's premium charge (about which I read Julien's is apparently pretty high).

But aside from my own lack of due diligence on that subject, they also wanted to charge me a ton to ship a my item (a screen print) to SF from southern California. I mean like almost $400... like I'd just doubled my hammer price. I had to do a lot of work to get them to ship it with someone else and save me a lot of money. That left a really bad taste in my mouth. I'm not going through that again.

That was my experience as well.  Additionally the piece was not mint as they told me, that was the most disappointing but that was the first and only time I used them and luckily the piece went for under the estimate and there was no reserve.  

[met]

Apr 6, 2018 5:45:14 GMT 1 fm1975 said:

Thanks met.
Very interesting & useful post.

In that 2017 thread posted, there was a clear case of a forgery sold by Julien's Auctions as a Banksy street piece. It was first pointed out by jig5aw with supporting photographic evidence.

That fake still ended up going for $57,600. Rather unfortunate for the buyer.

__________


Since concrete examples are always helpful, let's try another case study, this time selected from works in Julien's current Street and Urban Art Auction (#3201) on 2 May 2018:


1.  Here's one piece being sold as a Keith Haring:

www.julienslive.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/258/lot/101801/





Is there any provenance information offered, details about chain of title?

No, not in the lot description. None whatsoever. It seems buyers just have to take Julien's word for it that the piece was "Executed by Keith Haring on a New York City subway sign from the Freeman Street station in the Bronx."



2.  So what does a potential buyer do if they're a bit nervous about having zero proof of a work's authenticity, and zero details about its history?

Well, perhaps no such information is actually required.

Yes, the piece could easily have been faked. And yes, it's being sold for thousands of dollars. But maybe blind faith is sufficient to make up for the evidence shortfall. Blind faith in the professionalism, honesty and integrity of the auction house.

That's certainly one option. It might be attractive as well because it's easy: Just shut your eyes, shut your mouth, and hope for the best.


Another option would be to go on eBay to search the completed listings.



3.  And, strangely enough, this piece was recently sold on eBay — for $3,650.00 on 25 October 2017 — under the listing title 'Keith Haring drawing on NYC Subway sign':

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keith-Haring-drawing-on-NYC-Subway-sign/253214509684





The Spain-based seller has the user ID tritinium and their listing description said the following:

"I've taken several photos in different angles so you can see the texture and surface, drawing over subway sign, ca 30x17'5cm, magnificent artwork attributed to Keith Haring, independent appraisement included.
Keith Haring is considered with Andy Warhol, Roy Lichtenstein or Basquiat one of the best artist of the 20th"



4.  This sale was accompanied by an appraisal from Taxo Valoración S.L. in Valencia.

An appraisal is by no means a claim of authenticity, but it does suggest authenticity, doesn't it?

Headed notepaper from a proper company. A beautiful language I cannot read. A few nice images added. Already I feel reassured.







Google Translate (Spanish to English) is a bit rough around the edges but helpful nevertheless:

"Appraiser's observations

Analysis: Unsigned and dated work attributed to the American artist Keith Haring (1958-1990). Royal New York subway sign (Freeman Street) with white marker drawing located in the lower right corner. Image made schematically with a single character in a dance position that holds a heart. Characteristic style of Haring that uses a fast stroke to realize a figure lacking in human details and surrounded by small lines that bring dynamism to the scene.

The data entered by the client have been considered true and valid without physical or documentary verification of the same."


[I was comforted too by what looks like an art-valuation special offer on Taxo's website: "ART VALUATION — Get to know the value of any artistic object thanks to our online tool for only 29.99€."

If anyone's interested, for a reasonable fee, the company is also available for business valuations, boat valuations, and to appraise your furniture or jewellery.]



5.  Coming back to the eBay sale, it turns out to have been a private listing. And it somehow received 111 bids. Make of this what you will:

www.ebay.co.uk/bfl/viewbids/253214509684?item=253214509684&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565






6.  Besides the eBay provenance having been omitted from Julien's lot description, other points are worthy of mention.

Those skilled at playing Spot the difference will have noticed at least a couple of changes occurred in the 5-month interval between the eBay sale and the consignment with Julien's:

(i) the subway sign was christened with a sexy new name — Dancing Man with Radiant Heart; and

(ii) the subway sign's status curiously evolved — from a cautious or cagey "artwork attributed to Keith Haring" to an unambiguous and definitive "Executed by Keith Haring".



7.  Now, where did the eBayer tritinium get the piece? Did they create it themselves, or acquire it from elsewhere?

A Google search for "Keith Haring Freeman St sign" brings up this Pure Evil Gallery Facebook post from 20 April 2014, referencing a then-recently-purchased sign from eBay:





Unfortunately, that post no longer includes the original accompanying image.

Could the 'Keith Haring - Freeman St subway sign' be the same as the one currently at Julien's? Perhaps Pure Evil may be able to assist here.

If this is the same piece which ended up back on the market, it looks to have been one of the purchases made by Pure Evil earlier in 2014 from the infamous (and apparently still-active) Warhol / Haring fraudster in Skåne, Sweden — Patrick Maske / Robert Hilmersson / Michael Kadaz / bobinga33 / triplex234 / bleca-meca:

news.artnet.com/market/online-trove-of-haring-and-warhol-works-fake-experts-say-44008

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/features/the-great-online-art-illusion-a-cautionary-tale-9585690.html

www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/lurades-kopa-forfalskningar-for-400-000-kronor



8.  But whatever the source of the Freeman Street subway sign, I would advise against bidding at Julien's Auctions.

[KGR]

Apr 7, 2018 0:06:56 GMT 1 met said:

Apr 6, 2018 5:45:14 GMT 1 fm1975 said:

Thanks met.
Very interesting & useful post.

In that 2017 thread posted, there was a clear case of a forgery sold by Julien's Auctions as a Banksy street piece. It was first pointed out by jig5aw with supporting photographic evidence.

That fake still ended up going for $57,600. Rather unfortunate for the buyer.

__________


Since concrete examples are always helpful, let's try another case study, this time selected from works in Julien's current Street and Urban Art Auction (#3201) on 2 May 2018:


1.  Here's one piece being sold as a Keith Haring:

www.julienslive.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/258/lot/101801/





Is there any provenance information offered, details about chain of title?

No, not in the lot description. None whatsoever. It seems buyers just have to take Julien's word for it that the piece was "Executed by Keith Haring on a New York City subway sign from the Freeman Street station in the Bronx."



2.  So what does a potential buyer do if they're a bit nervous about having zero proof of a work's authenticity, and zero details about its history?

Well, perhaps no such information is actually required.

Yes, the piece could easily have been faked. And yes, it's being sold for thousands of dollars. But maybe blind faith is sufficient to make up for the evidence shortfall. Blind faith in the professionalism, honesty and integrity of the auction house.

That's certainly one option. It might be attractive as well because it's easy: Just shut your eyes, shut your mouth, and hope for the best.


Another option would be to go on eBay to search the completed listings.



3.  And, strangely enough, this piece was recently sold on eBay — for $3,650.00 on 25 October 2017 — under the listing title 'Keith Haring drawing on NYC Subway sign':

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keith-Haring-drawing-on-NYC-Subway-sign/253214509684





The Spain-based seller has the user ID tritinium and their listing description said the following:

"I've taken several photos in different angles so you can see the texture and surface, drawing over subway sign, ca 30x17'5cm, magnificent artwork attributed to Keith Haring, independent appraisement included.
Keith Haring is considered with Andy Warhol, Roy Lichtenstein or Basquiat one of the best artist of the 20th"



4.  This sale was accompanied by an appraisal from Taxo Valoración S.L. in Valencia.

An appraisal is by no means a claim of authenticity, but it does suggest authenticity, doesn't it?

Headed notepaper from a proper company. A beautiful language I cannot read. A few nice images added. Already I feel reassured.







Google Translate (Spanish to English) is a bit rough around the edges but helpful nevertheless:

"Appraiser's observations

Analysis: Unsigned and dated work attributed to the American artist Keith Haring (1958-1990). Royal New York subway sign (Freeman Street) with white marker drawing located in the lower right corner. Image made schematically with a single character in a dance position that holds a heart. Characteristic style of Haring that uses a fast stroke to realize a figure lacking in human details and surrounded by small lines that bring dynamism to the scene.

The data entered by the client have been considered true and valid without physical or documentary verification of the same."


[I was comforted too by what looks like an art-valuation special offer on Taxo's website: "ART VALUATION — Get to know the value of any artistic object thanks to our online tool for only 29.99€."

If anyone's interested, for a reasonable fee, the company is also available for business valuations, boat valuations, and to appraise your furniture or jewellery.]



5.  Coming back to the eBay sale, it turns out to have been a private listing. And it somehow received 111 bids. Make of this what you will:

www.ebay.co.uk/bfl/viewbids/253214509684?item=253214509684&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565






6.  Besides the eBay provenance having been omitted from Julien's lot description, other points are worthy of mention.

Those skilled at playing Spot the difference will have noticed at least a couple of changes occurred in the 5-month interval between the eBay sale and the consignment with Julien's:

(i) the subway sign was christened with a sexy new name — Dancing Man with Radiant Heart; and

(ii) the subway sign's status curiously evolved — from a cautious or cagey "artwork attributed to Keith Haring" to an unambiguous and definitive "Executed by Keith Haring".



7.  Now, where did the eBayer tritinium get the piece? Did they create it themselves, or acquire it from elsewhere?

A Google search for "Keith Haring Freeman St sign" brings up this Pure Evil Gallery Facebook post from 20 April 2014, referencing a then-recently-purchased sign from eBay:





Unfortunately, that post no longer includes the original accompanying image.

Could the 'Keith Haring - Freeman St subway sign' be the same as the one currently at Julien's? Perhaps Pure Evil may be able to assist here.

If this is the same piece which ended up back on the market, it looks to have been one of the purchases made by Pure Evil earlier in 2014 from the infamous (and apparently still-active) Warhol / Haring fraudster in Skåne, Sweden — Patrick Maske / Robert Hilmersson / Michael Kadaz / bobinga33 / triplex234 / bleca-meca:

news.artnet.com/market/online-trove-of-haring-and-warhol-works-fake-experts-say-44008

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/features/the-great-online-art-illusion-a-cautionary-tale-9585690.html

www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/lurades-kopa-forfalskningar-for-400-000-kronor



8.  But whatever the source of the Freeman Street subway sign, I would advise against bidding at Julien's Auctions.

Ten one that Pure Evil brought could have been any of the following that the Swedish Forger made up.
These are the photos he sent me of stock he had at the time.
There are a few Freeman signs in this lot.















upload and share pictures

[88rayse88]

The Spanish provenance document also accompanies lots being auctioned off at Novartia. That auction house usually holds monthly auctions. The items being auctioned off in their auctions. I find many to be very questionable. Not able to link up now but you can find them via Liveauctioneers (or Invaluable), so you can see for yourself. Would advise to avoid.

[Rochebm]

I purchased a print from a Juliens auction a few years back. It ended up being dry mounted, which was not mentioned in the condition report. I was going to fight it but it was only $50. Lesson learned.

[Pattycakes]

The ones Pure Evil bought are from the Swedish person who sells under the name Bleca-Meca, I think he's also the Spanish seller too, multiple accounts. The guy is shady, there was a big article on this in Artnet here is a link to the story 

news.artnet.com/market/online-trove-of-haring-and-warhol-works-fake-experts-say-44008

Interestingly the propertied faker or one of them is also an artist called Robert Hilmerson who is represented by Walton Fine Arts

www.waltonfinearts.com/robert-hilmersson/

[diarmid]

I am not sure if you guys seen this invader, also was this one in london? thanks

www.julienslive.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/258/lot/101818?url=%2Fm%2Fsearch%3Fpage%3D1%26view%3Dlist%26key%3DINVADER%26sale%3Dundefined%26catm%3Dany%26order%3Dtimeleft%26live%3Dno%26hybrid%3Dno%26timed%3Dno%26regular%3Dno%26buynow%3Dno%26makeoffer%3Dno%26xclosed%3Dno%26featured%3Dno