HOW TO SAY A BANKSY IS AUTHENTIC BEFORE BUYING IT

[peppus]

Hello everybody,
I am an Italian guy. I write here to ask you some important informations. In the city where i live there is an actual (for sure because it was on his site and in his book) Banksy on a wall. I met some people, living in the neighborhood where the piece is,  who told me they met Banksy in person when he was painting his piece and that they somehow became "friends" with the artist. They also told me that Banksy had donated them, as "locals" who had helped him, a couple of works. ... Straight to the point: these people offered me one of these works, it's a canvas and it's not authenticated and they told me they can not authenticate it for some complicated reasons. Now i know there's a huge possibility the work is just a fake but there are some strange elements in this story (which are too complecated to explain here) that make me wanna check anyway. There are some elements of truth, first of all the fact that the real Banksy piece is really close to where they live. So i took some pictures of the canvas i was offered and send them, toghether with a long message where i explained everything, to the email addresses of PestControlOffice, asking if they could somehow make things clearer. Do you know if they answer to this kind of questions? I thought it was worth doing so also because if there are people out there who are trying to make money selling fake Banksys, it's better to talk about it, to inform PestControlOffice, the only people i know that can actually do anything about it. 
Still some aspects are not a 100 % clear to me. First of all who is behind PestControlOffice and how can we trust them a 100%? Who controls them? ... I make an ex. : let's say the work is original, i mean really made by Banksy, still not authenticated, and it's been sold at a very low price, much lower than the contemporary market value ... Why should PestControlOffice declare it authentic if, let's just say, they are the same people (maybe some "gallerist"!!?? or the artist himself!!?? ) who have interest to keep the Banksy prices very high!? ... It's nothing sure here ... i am just "thinking" about the Banksy "authentication" modality which, i think, is not really transparent. Please let me know your opinion. 
Thank you all!

[Happy Shopper]

Pest Control are the right people to ask... have you filled out the Authentication Form?
You could also send an email to Pictures on Walls.

I doubt value would effect whether they authenticate it or not... just whether Banksy conciders it a "Work of Art" that he produced.

Post a pic here, there's enough people here that can probably spot a fake (if it's an obvious fake) !

[raindogs]

A curiosity: where in Italy is the wall with the Banksy? Grazie!

[peppus]

Thanks for answering. The problem with the Authentication Form is that you have to be the "owner" of the work (if i got it right) ... but in that case i should have already bought the work ... and that's the main problem: i don't want to buy a potential "fake". So i was wandering if it was possible to know somehow if the work is authentic or not before buying it. I sent emails to Pest Control, explaining the situation, also with some pics. I hope they answer (do you think so? How long should this take?). ... Right now i don't feel to post pictures here, as there are too many unclear elements about this situation. Thanks again!

[Deleted]

Are you only intererested in its potential value as an investment?, or do you actually like it?, only buy it if you like it whatever its worth.

Im going out on a limb here as i havent seen it and dont know its background but i would say its not a Banksy.

It may be months before PC get back to you (if ever).

Have fun.

Post pics

[Deleted]

Posting pics here will help. But whether you like it or not, Pest Control are your only hope for legitimacy which ultimately will expose its full value.

So are you hoping to get a genuine Banksy at a cost below its market price? And pics here will alert potential buyers?

You pay your money, you take a chance. Harsh, but true I'm afraid.

There are plenty of people on here that can help, so suggest you get some pics up. 

[peppus]

The painting is not the "typical" Banksy you see nowadays, for ex. in the galleries ... it's made on an old canvas ... I was told it was made in few minutes ... this is about what they told me ... "I had this old canvas, i gave it to him and soon it was made, after a subject he had already represented in other works ...
I think the work is "cool" ... it's quite intersting both as subject and as an object (the old canvas etc.) , actually i like it... But let's be honest: would you spend some thousands of euros/pounds for a work that, if it's not authentic, would cost a hundred euros/ponds or less!?
About PC ... i suspected that ... so should i wait for months and maybe they're not even going to answer!? ... So if there's someone out there who is selling fake Banksys what shoud one do? before many others get cheated!?

[Deleted]

So its a corrupted old painting?. These are the only choices you have.

1.Wait indefinitely for PC to email you then decide, by which time you may well be 100 years old.
2.Buy it.
3.Dont buy it.

As said ^, post a pic and await the opinions.

[tartarus]

Jul 1, 2013 12:34:45 GMT 1 peppus said:

i gave it to him and soon it was made, 

Right there is where "unlikely" begins to seep into my thinking..

[hnkpnk]

Jul 1, 2013 11:33:43 GMT 1 raindogs said:

A curiosity: where in Italy is the wall with the Banksy? Grazie!

My guess is this one in Naples.

[Graffiti Prints]

no offence to people from naples but the place is the wild west of italy after sicily. you can buy anything there and most probably a fake banksy...

btw i love naples it has an amazing atmosphere compared to most cities, just been pick pocketed there twice and had my watch taken from my wrist, we used to fly into naples every summer as a kids/teenagers and train it up to latina where my nona lived.....

[hnkpnk]

A few possible scenarios from here:

• It's real, the op buys it and has a genuine Banksy on his wall
• It's fake, the op buys it and has a fake Banksy on his wall
• It's real or fake, someone from the forum offers to buy it via pm. Either the buyer or the seller is the winner
• It's real or fake, the op offers it up on the forum. A big discussion follows resulting in some hurt Banksy "experts" and a few bans

etc etc

I think we've seen all variants here. The ugly grenade that everyone dissed and turned out to be real. The police car on bricks that probably was real. The confused american artist offering up a terrible Banksy copy, that used several personas talking between themselves and finally got all threads deleted when her "father" threatened to sue. Oh, and the stuffed pig's head with police helmet I so wished I had bought on Ebay!

Any other interesting new/unknown Banksy originals that's been discussed here?

[hnkpnk]

And Peppus, I don't know if you are on to a real bargain, getting scammed or you are a scammer yourself, but Pest Control is the best way to go. They are not a gallery and they've been set up by Banksy himself.

But I would love to see pictures of it and I think you would get a few good answers from here whether it's genuine or not. It will be an indication if you should continue to try to get it autheticated or not.

From Pest Controls web site:
"Pest Control is a handling service acting on behalf of the artist BANKSY.

We answer enquiries and determine whether he was responsible for making a certain piece of artwork and issue paperwork if this is the case. This process does not make a profit and has been set up to prevent innocent people from becoming victims of fraud.

Please be aware that because many Banksy pieces are created in an advanced state of intoxication the authentication process can be lengthy and challenging. Pest Control deals only with legitimate works of art and has no involvement with any kind of illegal activity. "

[peppus]

Thanks hnkpnk! Belive me, I am just trying to see through all this. I mean, the problem here is not only that they’re probabily cheating me, … but this all situation made me think that there’s a “bug” in the way Banksy works are authenticated. I had read that thing (you reported) on Pest Control site and that is one of the reason i started this discussion here. I mean, if it’s true that “This process … has been set up to prevent innocent people from becoming victims of fraud” , this would only be real if they answer to someone asking informations about a work he/her has been offered BEFORE he/her buys it. So, having they written that on their site, i would expect that they answer to my emails. Otherwise those would be just empty words … also because not only I’m getting scammed but nothing will be done to prevent that many other people will be getting scammed too. i am not a scammer, i am just a guy who is trtryi

[hnkpnk]

The problem with early Banksys is that it's only Banksy himself who can judge if it's genuine. And I guess he's not always at hand to do these decisions for Pest Control.

And as "many Banksy pieces are created in an advanced state of intoxication" maybe he has problems remembering too. 

But as I wrote earlier, if you post a pic here there are many nice and knowledgeable people who can make an educated guess. And a lot of chancers too, so beware.

[peppus]

I was also thinking about another thing, probabily it's just a bad trip of mine
… Couldn’t it be that the “split” (at least in public) between Laz and Pest Control (Banksy) was due to the fact that they had realized that there was some “conflict of interest” going on!!? (And that soon or later someone else would have realized that too and would have asked explanations to them about that!?)
I mean, how come nobody has even thought about that!? … I try to explain my self better. As i wrote somewhere up here: what interest can have someone – who sells Banksy works (Laz, the artist him-self, whoever) - to declare “authentic” a work bought well under its current market price!? (when it’s their interest to keep the avergage prices of the works as higher as possibile? )… Honestly, my opinion is that some “radical” ideas expressed in the art-works are not enough to guarantee the “sincerity” of a person! Much more important proves are needed! Much more important “actions” are needed, for example in the way the authentication process is maneged. We can't be so "naive", nobody should! Pest Contro controls . … But Who controls Pest Control!?
Maybe this is a bit out of topic but this is the cynical conclusion where i came and i felt to share.

[Deleted]

Apologies if i am wrong here but i smell a rat.

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2013 15:54:14 GMT 1 peppus said:

I was also thinking about another thing, probabily it's just a bad trip of mine
… Couldn’t it be that the “split” (at least in public) between Laz and Pest Control (Banksy) was due to the fact that they had realized that there was some “conflict of interest” going on!!? (And that soon or later someone else would have realized that too and would have asked explanations to them about that!?)
I mean, how come nobody has even thought about that!? … I try to explain my self better. As i wrote somewhere up here: what interest can have someone – who sells Banksy works (Laz, the artist him-self, whoever) - to declare “authentic” a work bought well under its current market price!? (when it’s their interest to keep the avergage prices of the works as higher as possibile? )… Honestly, my opinion is that some “radical” ideas expressed in the art-works are not enough to guarantee the “sincerity” of a person! Much more important proves are needed! Much more important “actions” are needed, for example in the way the authentication process is maneged. We can't be so "naive", nobody should! Pest Contro controls . … But Who controls Pest Control!?
Maybe this is a bit out of topic but this is the cynical conclusion where i came and i felt to share.

And is there a God who created the world? And if so who created him?

Pest Control can do what they want. 

As you're in Italy you can lead a march onto the Vatican to demand something better from the authentication process for Banksy's.

[hnkpnk]

Short reply: I believe PC is honest and genuine.

But it is a hard task to be an official authenticator. If you do just one misjudgment (declaring a fake as genuine) your reputation is, if not ruined, at least questioned. And then there is a fine line between the originals (art, gifts, street) that get authentication and the ones that don't. Sometimes it feels more like it's depending of what mood Banksy is in than anything else.

[peppus]

"Sometimes it feels more like it's depending of what mood Banksy is in than anything else" ...
In this case, ... Oh Banksy, if you are reading this, please forgive me, i didn't mean all that. Please help me "win" this, i have been a loser all my life, please!

:-)

[Happy Shopper]

Do people know the Naples image above is a real Banksy?
Coincidentally I actually saw it last week and assumed it was a Banksy style rip off !

[hnkpnk]

Jul 1, 2013 16:32:59 GMT 1 Happy Shopper said:

Do people know the Naples image above is a real Banksy?
Coincidentally I actually saw it last week and assumed it was a Banksy style rip off !

It's in Wall and Piece, so I'd say it's genuine. 

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2013 16:32:28 GMT 1 peppus said:

"Sometimes it feels more like it's depending of what mood Banksy is in than anything else" ...
In this case, ... Oh Banksy, if you are reading this, please forgive me, i didn't mean all that. Please help me "win" this, i have been a loser all my life, please!

:-)

[hnkpnk]

[hnkpnk]

There was another Banksy in Naples too:




naples-banksy-ruined

[Trevorm]

Pic? Don't hold your breath

[Warm Gun]

Whether you question their motives or not, without Pest Control authentication it's damn near worthless if it's a Banksy piece despite whatever sentimental story the piece comes with.

[johnnyh]

Never mind wether the canvas is genuine not sure this is a genuine thread.........................

[Deleted]

Jul 1, 2013 20:13:11 GMT 1 johnnyh said:

Never mind wether the canvas is genuine not sure this is a genuine thread.........................

Ha, you smell the rat too Johnny?.

[Deleted]

Still waiting on the pic.