[smashedhat]

wezzley said:

& 4k for a napalm a few days ago...!

and 4.6k for a nice day right now, I was watching it, now it's just breaking my heart

[willamsa]

its easy, if you like the piece of work and can afford it buy it hang it on your wall, enjoy it.
If its too expensive don't play - loads of pretty prints out there that are affordable

conspiracy? hey wouldn't that be fun, but too many other things to think about in life . . .

[RBK]

Or buy a digital frame and load all the images you love onto it.

[Run Pig Run]

rklimek said:

Or buy a digital frame and load all the images you love onto it.

......and a singing billy bass and some novelty banksy keyrings and a banksy mug. great stuff.

[corblimeylimey]

bombhugger said:

rklimek said:

Or buy a digital frame and load all the images you love onto it.

......and a singing billy bass and some novelty banksy keyrings and a banksy mug. great stuff.

LOL

[finsburyparkranger]

You're right !!! What's more important than money? Who cares about the art . Its all about the green-backs. Everything is a commodity.... Right?

[RBK]

corblimeylimey - you know I have mad respect for you - but I think your analogy is flawed. eelus doesn't have higher priced prints like Banksy - and iron-tortoise (and other characters) aren't really speculating with him. And if they are - it is for 50-100 GBP. With Banksy we are talking about hundreds and thousands GBP. There is no other logical explanation to why he would bid on over 90% of all Banksy prints, but almost NEVER win the auction. It creates value, and as new collectors are constantly coming in - they assume the market prices are not inflated. I bet a lot of people that buy Banksy's prints on Ebay aren't a members of either forum - and thus don't have all the information that is readily available to them.

[tomhills]

rklimek i'm a member of this forum but not the ebay one. i've been a fan of banksy and his work for around 18 months and to be honest until recently never thought about buying any of his work. it was only when the wife was on about some tat from ikea and i got a few quid for crimbo from me ma that i thought "if i'm gonna spend on some art, it may as well be sopmething i like".
i tracked prices on ebay like a mothercuffer, and when the time was right i made my move and i truly believe that i did so at the right price too.
can anyone seriously believe this absolute bollocks that is being entertained at times on this forum? i mean banksy has owt better to do than to sit around shill-bidding his life away on ebay to protect his legacy?
there are power struggles, wars and conflicts going on around the world, not to mention a bunch of racists sitting in an artificial compound in elstree. do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts the big man would have cuff all better to do with his time?
the really sad point surely has to be that fact anyone, including myself, has felt the need to qualify this ridiculous notion by posting a reply.
perhaps that is the biggest scam of all? not banksy and pow hyping up demand and prices but some cretin from the seven sisters road creating a sense of paranoina that, like a bunch of morons, we've all taken to hook, line and sinker.

[senna]

tomhills said:

rklimek i'm a member of this forum but not the ebay one. i've been a fan of banksy and his work for around 18 months and to be honest until recently never thought about buying any of his work. it was only when the wife was on about some tat from ikea and i got a few quid for crimbo from me ma that i thought "if i'm gonna spend on some art, it may as well be sopmething i like".
i tracked prices on ebay like a mothercuffer, and when the time was right i made my move and i truly believe that i did so at the right price too.
can anyone seriously believe this absolute bollocks that is being entertained at times on this forum? i mean banksy has owt better to do than to sit around shill-bidding his life away on ebay to protect his legacy?
there are power struggles, wars and conflicts going on around the world, not to mention a bunch of racists sitting in an artificial compound in elstree. do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts the big man would have cuff all better to do with his time?
the really sad point surely has to be that fact anyone, including myself, has felt the need to qualify this ridiculous notion by posting a reply.
perhaps that is the biggest scam of all? not banksy and pow hyping up demand and prices but some cretin from the seven sisters road creating a sense of paranoina that, like a bunch of morons, we've all taken to hook, line and sinker.

bang on mate fun to read though

[corblimeylimey]

This business about bidding and hardly ever buying could even apply to me, there have been a few pieces recently that I probably can't afford but I put a cheeky bid in to what I can afford and you never know I might get lucky, hasn't worked yet though.

The fact is there is no conspiracy, people who can afford it are prepared to pay large amounts of money for art they like, or in some cases art they don't like but think may make money as an investment.

[finsburyparkranger]

I think you can make prices up on ebay. I recently was bidding for a nice Pete Fowler print and when i won the bid the bidder asked me to communicate to him on another email address. The email address name that he gave we was the same name as one of the other bidders. This seller made a school boy error and has since been unregistered by ebay (although with new ebay rules i now would never be able to discover this fraud was happening because I can not see the names of the bidders). Hence the price i almost paid was allot higher than what i would have paid if ebay did not exist. Ebay as a new form of technology has allowed the art market specifically to legitimate prices that wouldn't have before been legitimated. Shill bidding is RAMPANT. Why else did ebay stop us seeing the name of the bidders? Because knowledge of rampant shill bidding by the public would have decreased the trust they place in ebay. The art market is also different to many other markets because the price is all based on a speculation of future prices. Ebay helps people think that art is worth more than it is. In a normal art auction a seller them self (one man band) cannot bid on art which they are selling. On ebay sellers can bid on there own auctions very easily and do all the time. This combined with very misleading 'buy it now' prices and 'sold' prices where money never changed hands causes an illusion. The illusion in turn becomes reality. Hence the great Banksy ebay con trick.

[heavyweaponry]

I believe unsigned prints are currently undervalued - as prices for signed ones continue to soar, unsigned prints will also rise proportionally (simple economics).

[numusic]

finsburyparkranger said:

I think you can make prices up on ebay. I recently was bidding for a nice Pete Fowler print and when i won the bid the bidder asked me to communicate to him on another email address. The email address name that he gave we was the same name as one of the other bidders. This seller made a school boy error and has since been unregistered by ebay (although with new ebay rules i now would never be able to discover this fraud was happening because I can not see the names of the bidders). Hence the price i almost paid was allot higher than what i would have paid if ebay did not exist. Ebay as a new form of technology has allowed the art market specifically to legitimate prices that wouldn't have before been legitimated. Shill bidding is RAMPANT. Why else did ebay stop us seeing the name of the bidders? Because knowledge of rampant shill bidding by the public would have decreased the trust they place in ebay. The art market is also different to many other markets because the price is all based on a speculation of future prices. Ebay helps people think that art is worth more than it is. In a normal art auction a seller them self (one man band) cannot bid on art which they are selling. On ebay sellers can bid on there own auctions very easily and do all the time. This combined with very misleading 'buy it now' prices and 'sold' prices where money never changed hands causes an illusion. The illusion in turn becomes reality. Hence the great Banksy ebay con trick.

That makes much more sense, but again, doesn't hold up when you look at gallery and auction prices which are several thousand pounds higher than most anything on ebay. Ebay is still a relatively cheap option for all goods as it generally cuts out the middleman retailer costs. Of course it isn't perfect and people are gonna try and take advantage.. way of the world, but if you learn the system, play safe and collect as much knowledge as you can, then you can pick up some great deals. Banksy's included.

As for Shill bidding being rampant, I doubt that's true, and if so ,they rarely get away with it on the Banksy sales. Walk into any high street store or supermarket and your being played, manipulated and ultimately conned left, right and centre. Whether you're buying a tin of beans or a Warhol soupcan, there's a billion dollar industry attempting to make that decision for you. You just have to be aware and conscious of your decisions. Ultimately, this is an exhausting and anxious way to live, it will probably ensure you stomp through life in a constant state of anxiety with a little existential cloud permenantly hovering overhead.

The key is to know when to turn your radar on and off.. and I guarantee 99.9% of the people on this board have their Banksy buying radar very finely tuned these days

(Still can't believe I paid that much for a can of beans).. bastards !

[monochrome]

heavyweaponry said:

I believe unsigned prints are currently undervalued - as prices for signed ones continue to soar, unsigned prints will also rise proportionally (simple economics).

sorry to shatter illusions here, bu show me in the art world unsigned prints higher than Banksy? they well over priced in some cases.

[numusic]

monochrome said:

heavyweaponry said:

I believe unsigned prints are currently undervalued - as prices for signed ones continue to soar, unsigned prints will also rise proportionally (simple economics).

sorry to shatter illusions here, bu show me in the art world unsigned prints higher than Banksy? they well over priced in some cases.

Sorry to shatter yours too. New movement, new buyers, new market, new rules.. fuck the art world of old.. no one pays for the tagging and graf on the walls, why should we pay for it on a bit of paper, it's a modernist myth set up to play you.. ;D

Signed being more illustrious is just a bolloxy way to squeeze more cash out of people.. art of the past was rarely signed.. doesn't make it less valuable does it.

[andrewd]

heavyweaponry said:

I believe unsigned prints are currently undervalued - as prices for signed ones continue to soar, unsigned prints will also rise proportionally (simple economics).

This has never been the case previously in the art world. I am not saying it won't happen but there becomes a limit to the amount people will pay for an unsigned piece of work.

[numusic]

andrewd said:

heavyweaponry said:

I believe unsigned prints are currently undervalued - as prices for signed ones continue to soar, unsigned prints will also rise proportionally (simple economics).

This has never been the case previously in the art world. I am not saying it won't happen but there becomes a limit to the amount people will pay for an unsigned piece of work.

Mona Lisa isn't signed !?!.. go figure

[ABC]

Yes it is Nu, By Nick walker!!!

I dont think there is a limit to what people will pay for an unsigned work as long as it has provenance and they can afford it. There are lots of mega wealthy collectors out in the world that would spend £50 million on a painting Im sure they could afford 2k on an unsigned print. The bottom line is its getting expensive for the likes of us, hence the moaning about prices!!

[monochrome]

numusic said:

monochrome said:

Sorry to shatter yours too. New movement, new buyers, new market, new rules.. f**k the art world of old.. no one pays for the tagging and graf on the walls, why should we pay for it on a bit of paper, it's a modernist myth set up to play you.. ;D

Signed being more illustrious is just a bolloxy way to squeeze more cash out of people.. art of the past was rarely signed.. doesn't make it less valuable does it.

Thanks for the free lecture. So show me unsigned prints going for the same values. Of course, this is a new 'movement', but it's just a bunch of grown up record collectors spending their obsessive pennies elsewhere. Look at the forum, male, mid 20s-mid40s, probably all into music, and possibly football, probably like nice trainers too. It's a marketing dream and the only suckers, yes suckers buying unsigned prints is THIS crowd, ie. me, you, and everyone else. The real big time charlies with millions to spend each year would never touch this shit.

Now show me these high valued unsigned prints.

[foundation]

monochrome said:

numusic said:

monochrome said:

Sorry to shatter yours too. New movement, new buyers, new market, new rules.. f**k the art world of old.. no one pays for the tagging and graf on the walls, why should we pay for it on a bit of paper, it's a modernist myth set up to play you.. ;D

Signed being more illustrious is just a bolloxy way to squeeze more cash out of people.. art of the past was rarely signed.. doesn't make it less valuable does it.

Thanks for the free lecture. So show me unsigned prints going for the same values. Of course, this is a new 'movement', but it's just a bunch of grown up record collectors spending their obsessive pennies elsewhere. Look at the forum, male, mid 20s-mid40s, probably all into music, and possibly football, probably like nice trainers too. It's a marketing dream and the only suckers, yes suckers buying unsigned prints is THIS crowd, ie. me, you, and everyone else. The real big time charlies with millions to spend each year would never touch this s**t.

Now show me these high valued unsigned prints.

Unsigned rude copper just went for 2500, not pin money.

[numusic]

monochrome said:

numusic said:

monochrome said:

Sorry to shatter yours too. New movement, new buyers, new market, new rules.. f**k the art world of old.. no one pays for the tagging and graf on the walls, why should we pay for it on a bit of paper, it's a modernist myth set up to play you.. ;D

Signed being more illustrious is just a bolloxy way to squeeze more cash out of people.. art of the past was rarely signed.. doesn't make it less valuable does it.

Thanks for the free lecture. So show me unsigned prints going for the same values. Of course, this is a new 'movement', but it's just a bunch of grown up record collectors spending their obsessive pennies elsewhere. Look at the forum, male, mid 20s-mid40s, probably all into music, and possibly football, probably like nice trainers too. It's a marketing dream and the only suckers, yes suckers buying unsigned prints is THIS crowd, ie. me, you, and everyone else. The real big time charlies with millions to spend each year would never touch this s**t.

Now show me these high valued unsigned prints.

Basically all you just pointed out, was that there are now thousands of new people with an interst in art and in having something decent on their walls.. a good thing no ? what were the alternatives before... bad repro's of pop art at hundreds of quid a "pop".. nicely framed copies of Matisee and Picasso..

keep in mind the basic POW philosophy rather than the scalping galleries and "investors". Art for people into music/football/trainers.. Fucking YES !!!! finally some art with some relevant content and balls.

Alternative has always been suits, bankers, shiny shoes and chinless wonder wannabe's.
They ain't gonna go away..such is life. But there are plenty of 30-100 quid prints out there that people are getting turned onto everyday.

All good IMO.

(Unless you're after a signed Queen Vic, in which case you're fucked, but would be the same for a LOT of artists work we'd like to own)

[monochrome]

a rude copper goes for 2.5k
no other unsigned piece gets close. a BME goes for 1.2k

either way, my 'opinion' (if i am allowed) is that they are over priced and long term gambles.

as for other prints in the market that is unsigned.... does anything come close??

[dirtypete]

monochrome said:

a rude copper goes for 2.5k
no other unsigned piece gets close. a BME goes for 1.2k

either way, my 'opinion' (if i am allowed) is that they are over priced and long term gambles.

as for other prints in the market that is unsigned.... does anything come close??

There only long term gambles if you plan on buying them for investments. All investments have risks attached, but if you plan on buying prints to be put on the wall what does it matter how much you paid for it, if you're never going to sell it on. I personally would rather keep my five unsigned prints than sell them to get one signed edition, but thats because I hang them on the wall rather than praying that one day they'll out perform the FTSE 100

[RBK]

Agree with you dirtypete that it doesn't matter if you are hanging these on your walls.

I think one of the most interesting things to know would be how many of the pieces in the "What Banksy Pieces Do You Have??" thread are actually framed? I'm proud to say that 4 of my 6 are!

[numusic]

monochrome said:

a rude copper goes for 2.5k
no other unsigned piece gets close. a BME goes for 1.2k

either way, my 'opinion' (if i am allowed) is that they are over priced and long term gambles.

as for other prints in the market that is unsigned.... does anything come close??

Give it up mate, you're preaching to the converted. Half the people on here started by buying a little 5 quid book, saw a piece on the street or net that resonated. Most people aren't buying for investment or cred. They'd sold out long before the galleries woke up to Banksy and Street Art. You could still buy em last year for 75 quid.

People are buying a part of their own history, doesn't matter how much it is compared to past or future artists unsigned works. It's our history and it'll be our history we're looking at on our walls in 40 years time.. whether the value goes up or down can't change that. ;D

If you're buying for the wrong reasons, then yeah, you may be in for a surprise somewhere down the line..but that's only relevant to "investors", which most on here are not.

[monochrome]

did i mention the vile 'I' word? NO, so why start going on about it if you're not obsessed with it??

i merely comment on the comment previously regarding to the undervalued unsigned market. i reckon they are at their peak, nothing more. then i get rants lecturing me what i already know.

sorry guys, but this board is full of 'investors' - read the posts, what to buy next, where to buy it from etc. it's full of pocket money hawks buying anything that people tell them in order buy and trade for either hard cash (oh dear) or banksy.

so spare me the pratonising replies or lectures.

[foundation]

I think the silly season for both signed and unsigned is over, the prices will rationalise and steady out, the ages of peices will reflect some in the prices ( older prints are less comonly up for sale) they will slowly rise with time and steady out once the last of the LA prints are out and sold, resold and found good homes rather than scalpers. Dont really see that there is any type of con trick going on, just supply and demand, with stronger prints such as GWB demanding higher prices due to the more recognised style and subject compared to something like sale ends or grannies. IMO

[Ågent ßacardi]

Please peeps, it's possible to have constructive debates and opinion exchanges without getting all worked up and going on the offense. It never achieves anything practical, and it certainly does not drive your argument across.

[numusic]

monochrome said:

did i mention the vile 'I' word? NO, so why start going on about it if you're not obsessed with it??

i merely comment on the comment previously regarding to the undervalued unsigned market. i reckon they are at their peak, nothing more. then i get rants lecturing me what i already know.

sorry guys, but this board is full of 'investors' - read the posts, what to buy next, where to buy it from etc. it's full of pocket money hawks buying anything that people tell them in order buy and trade for either hard cash (oh dear) or banksy.

so spare me the pratonising replies or lectures.

If you have issues with people responding to your posts then don't post mate. easy as.

[ogrgel]

do guys know something about this piece .. or redirect me somewhere where I can get some info about it

thanks

cgi.ebay.co.uk/PAX-BRITANNICA-BANKSY-CAUTY-KENNARD-many-more-SIGNED_W0QQitemZ220073844012QQihZ012QQcategoryZ360QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem