sell out

[learnfury]

I am writing my dissertation on " does commerce sully art" and my question to you all is simple .... Has banksy sold out?
He has made so much money from his art which should represent the common man and wasnt this all suppose to be not about money making, and his latest project...now being loved in hollywood has it all not gone a little far from its roots?
Is banksy a brand or just a man with an important message?
All replies welcome!
Thanks

[Ågent ßacardi]

You can find plenty of relevant responses to your question in the thread titled "Banksy - slowly becoming what he is against..." in the General Banksy Chat Board.

Personally, I'm a little disappointed that fame and fortune has seemed to change what Banksy was all about. He used to be this subversive underground enigma with powerful messages that were accessible to everyone... but now, it seems like after he's experienced what it's like to be rich and famous, he's getting pretty comfortable there. In his latest series of prints, particularly "Festival" (where people are queuing up to buy a 'Fight Capitalism' t-shirt) and "I can't you morons actually buy this s**t" (self-explanatory) which cost US$500 each, I get the feeling that he's looking down on the 'common people' and actually making fun of us. He's clearly become rather capitalistic, which is really ironic when a lot of his work is all about fighting capitalism. It's kinda like a case of 'whine if you don't get it, gloat if you do'.

I'm also suspicious that his messages about poverty were made primarily because it's profitable to do so... the elephant exhibit stirred up lots of controversy, which converted to publicity and eventually fame and profit. While we really wouldn't know if he's contributing any of his profits to actually walking his talk of combating global poverty, we can be certain that he's making plenty of profit.

That being said, I'm still a huge fan of Banksy because he's fundamentally a really great artist... and his messages - while being attached to large price-tags these days - are still undeniably important, necessary, succinctly expressed, and relevant to this day and time. Whether he is a sell out or not would depend on whether you're viewing from the vantage point of a fan of the man or a fan of his work.

Sorry for the long rant

[wezzley]

agentbacardi - it seems your only gripe is that he is selling work for good money...yet you have no idea what he is doing with the money . Also, are you aware of his charity work in the past....?

[Ågent ßacardi]

I never said that I was sure that he didn't do any charity work with his money. I merely admitted that it was only a suspicion... especially since the public doesn't even know who Banksy is. If he has done charity in the past, that's wonderful, but we really wouldn't know if his recent ginormous profits will go to any charitable causes. After all, he is largely anonymous, and it's really not as if he would make a press release about it if he did. I may be wrong about that, of course. He's not as big here in America (yet), and even if he's been doing tons of charity work, it's not news that gets around here... so I would gladly admit that I do not know everything.

[HowAboutNo]

agentbacardi said:

I never said that I was sure that he didn't do any charity work with his money. I merely admitted that it was only a suspicion... especially since the public doesn't even know who Banksy is. If he has done charity in the past, that's wonderful, but we really wouldn't know if his recent ginormous profits will go to any charitable causes. After all, he is largely anonymous, and it's really not as if he would make a press release about it if he did. I may be wrong about that, of course. He's not as big here in America (yet), and even if he's been doing tons of charity work, it's not news that gets around here... so I would gladly admit that I do not know everything.

Me either Agent B (about knowing everything)..but I like u, you talk a lot of sense Pretty much all the likes of us hear is via "main stream media"...and thats just talk of cruelty to elephants and him being an illegal graffiti "person" not artist of course . I know there is a thread about what charity we would like to see him donate to next/again...I know he has done some stuff tied with a "cause" but at the minute (after gm got me sozzled on expensive ...but cheap tasting beer...and took me to a s**t gig ;D) I cant remember which one it was or where it is..but please feel free to all BROWSE.

Oh, of course other than elephants he is apprently kissing Bono's bum (since the Maids?? please correct me) so expect a Banksy "Red" period very soon! Whatever...even if he has sold out...as long as the images remain to be good to look at and something I like, i'll still like him at the end of the day, as simple as that. Same as I like a lot of stuff I look at, whether something copied by copied by Nu (even if the hearts go the wrong way out the plane...yours is still the s**t!! ;D, or Banksy copying Blek, or Blek copying Picasso (just generalising, but you get the point)

Dont blame him for getting greedy really at the end of the day - who would turn it down doing something that diverts from the "norm" of a 9 to 5, is something you obviously gets a rush out of doing, and is prolly the best way of wasting time when spunked up with cash and nothing else to do? (other than spending it on a swimming poo and a lambourghini of course )

My honest opinion of him is that he is basically just subversive when he wants to be, or strikes up a good continuous idea - the rats/pulp fiction/loads of other pieces without any "meaning" for instance and it is just the agents or bigger profiteers forcing him in one direction to get him essentially more mainstream, before he gets fat and dies of an overdose and becomes worth 10 times what he is now that is.

[filteryourmind]

Well, the guy has to make an income somehow...what else is he going to do? work at mcdonalds to help hide his identity? The deserves the money for being original.

[gm]

he is apprently kissing Bono's bum

Oh dear.

[aled]

How much are "swimming poos" these days?

In my day you could get 3, go to the cinema, a bag of chips and a bus home, all for a thrupny bit.

[sputnikeye]

John Waters, the film maker, once said in an interview after being accused of selling out that he'd sell out anytime if he thought anyone would buy it.
It's a fine line for the butcher boy, especially when fans and buyers start to dictate the themes they think he should be handling and what he should be doing with his free time etc, as if owning a Banksy gives this right.
It's all spin and the art is great and poignant.

[foundation]

How can he be selling out, he is doing just the same as he's done for years, its the middle class armchair anarchists who are buying overpriced w@^k paper and then feeling guilty about their newfound capitalist urges that are selling out, me included, but transferal is a wonderfull thing. XXX

[cwrawk]

In my opinion Banksy has whatever it is that strikes true to the soul. It isn't a question of selling out. Look at his latest work - there is no indication that he is making a conscience effort to put out second rate work to to get some bucks. Any fame or money is secondary to the message he is trying to send. If the price of Banksy's work keeps increasing it is by no fault of his own. The price of his art sould not dictate it's relevancy. It is relevant or not. I believe that when an artist comes along and has something very special about him/her they create a demand. Because Banksy operates in a mostly capitalist society he is bound by the rules set up as they are. The fact that he is able to make people see THAT system for what it is, is where the true art lies. and the fact that it is gaining in popularity is what will drive the price up. The art is still pure!

[gm]

But... Bono?

[cwrawk]

This sounds like a fucking soap opera. all your talking about is who he is associating with . pretty fucking sad. who gives a shit about bono. when you make a relevant statement in your art to the world it gets recognized by people. the fact that were talking is the real issue.

[numusic]

cwrawk said:

In my opinion Banksy has whatever it is that strikes true to the soul. It isn't a question of selling out. Look at his latest work - there is no indication that he is making a conscience effort to put out second rate work to to get some bucks. Any fame or money is secondary to the message he is trying to send. If the price of Banksy's work keeps increasing it is by no fault of his own. The price of his art sould not dictate it's relevancy. It is relevant or not. I believe that when an artist comes along and has something very special about him/her they create a demand. Because Banksy operates in a mostly capitalist society he is bound by the rules set up as they are. The fact that he is able to make people see THAT system for what it is, is where the true art lies. and the fact that it is gaining in popularity is what will drive the price up. The art is still pure!

well said that man ! ;D

[gm]

who gives a s**t about bono.

Me, obviously

[LoveRat]

numusic said:

cwrawk said:

In my opinion Banksy has whatever it is that strikes true to the soul. It isn't a question of selling out. Look at his latest work - there is no indication that he is making a conscience effort to put out second rate work to to get some bucks. Any fame or money is secondary to the message he is trying to send. If the price of Banksy's work keeps increasing it is by no fault of his own. The price of his art sould not dictate it's relevancy. It is relevant or not. I believe that when an artist comes along and has something very special about him/her they create a demand. Because Banksy operates in a mostly capitalist society he is bound by the rules set up as they are. The fact that he is able to make people see THAT system for what it is, is where the true art lies. and the fact that it is gaining in popularity is what will drive the price up. The art is still pure!

well said that man ! ;D

Exactly, the message/politics/humour is still there, even if the price tag has changed

[HowAboutNo]

cwrawk said:

In my opinion Banksy has whatever it is that strikes true to the soul. It isn't a question of selling out. Look at his latest work - there is no indication that he is making a conscience effort to put out second rate work to to get some bucks. Any fame or money is secondary to the message he is trying to send. If the price of Banksy's work keeps increasing it is by no fault of his own. The price of his art sould not dictate it's relevancy. It is relevant or not. I believe that when an artist comes along and has something very special about him/her they create a demand. Because Banksy operates in a mostly capitalist society he is bound by the rules set up as they are. The fact that he is able to make people see THAT system for what it is, is where the true art lies. and the fact that it is gaining in popularity is what will drive the price up. The art is still pure!

Yeah, sort 'o like what I said but more interlechewal innit. ;D

Spot on cwrawk

[HowAboutNo]

cwrawk said:

This sounds like a f**king soap opera. all your talking about is who he is associating with . pretty f**king sad. who gives a s**t about bono. when you make a relevant statement in your art to the world it gets recognized by people. the fact that were talking is the real issue.

Bono really was a throwaway example, I am not big of wordage like others so I throw around lose terms. Sorry! Blimey!