[kayray100]

Hi,
I've been a 'lurker' but really enjoying this forum. I recently bought a signed 'Jack and Jill' on ebay and eagerly (ok, verging on neurotically!) await its arrival. But me and the seller (who seems very nice and honest, I might add) are both new to large international sales, and have had a few problems along the way and I'm wondering if anyone can relate or advise.
First off, because of the value of the print it's being sent by DHL and costing about 95 GBP to send and insure - seems quite a lot, but...
Then I tried to pay through Paypal but because of their ridiculously high conversion rate of dollars to pounds it would have added 65GBP to the price, so I stopped payment through them and, with my sellers approval sent a registered check. He recieved the check and deposited it but has been told by his english bank that it could take up to 28 days (!) to clear.
yipes...

hopefully, this will all work out. But if I ever can raise the funds and want to buy another print (yes, I seem to be another Banksy addict)is there a better way to do all of this?
Thanks!

[tomhills1]

make sure he states it is a gift when he sends it or you will pay import tax. even more expense! fair play for your patience too.

[corblimeylimey]

The gift thing doesn't work, it only increases the value before you're taxed on it, you need the declared value at below £36 and marked as a gift to avoid VAT and Duty. This doesn't apply if you're trading within the EU.

[tomhills1]

didn't know that, cheers. i've just ordered the wife a watch and told the retailer to ship it as a gift on someone's advice! coming from outside the eu and via fed ex, looks like i'm gonna be on customs and excise christmas card list.s**t.
is it 17.5% plus what?
thanks again, too late for me but i won't go dishing that one out again. unless it's to someone i don't like. haha.

[kayray100]

gulp!
I wonder who I pay the taxes to and how much...
oh well...still glad i bought it!

[noodle]

HM Revenue & Customs

for UK forum members

www.hmrc.gov.uk/home.htm
Check out the "internet shopping" section.

Just received a canvas via Fedex that travelled via the states to the UK, all above board with the correct documentation, but good old UK customs still had to open the package and inspect it before releasing it at Stanstead!

UK customs know all about sellers sending goods with a lower value on the documentation.

[RBK]

Marking things as 'original art/art/gift' lessen the chances of it getting caught for import/duties. I ask that seller's mark it as such and pray that it makes it. I've had good luck so far.

[romanywg]

If you don't declare the true value on the package and it gets 'lost in post' then you are only insured for the declared value.
I was just sent my own work from the end of an exhibition in the States and had to pay £300 in import taxes!

[dwight]

I know this a bit long winded and I apologize, but I wish I would have had this information before buying and shipping from overseas.

I'm glad someone started this thread as I've recently learned some valuable lessons that I wanted to share.
First, I recently purchased a love is in the air on ebay. When shipping we used DHL and insured the print up to 1500gbp although I paid a little less than that. Shipping cost us about 75gbp. Upon receiving this item which was well packed in a more than adequate tube, I found it to be damaged. It had been crushed on an end like a paper cup and in the middle of the tube it was dented. I was very upset because the item had been clearly abused...(no small thing to have crushed this tube). When I began the paper work with DHL to make a claim, I soon realized that they are awful on these things. They've asked me to do multiple things that conflict with what they had previously requested. Anyhow, to continue, the declared value really isn't how much money you can claim. You can only be reimbursed for how much money you can prove was payed. If the item was a gift, the giver is supposed to produce an original receipt to prove its value. I'm still waiting to find the outcome of my claim which dhl said could take 4 weeks or longer! Meanwhile, I have worthless print and no help from DHL.

Having said this, DHL has safely delivered other prints and art, but this makes me think twice. Also, I considered using FED EX, but apparently they will not insure frameable works of art... Just be aware that proof of value is everything with DHL.

[pastiepie]

jollroger, that sure does suck. If it is a gift and you provide the original 75quid reciept is that all you are insured for. I hope you get your money back via insurance through DHL, can you still keep the damaged print?

[corblimeylimey]

tomhills1 said:

didn't know that, cheers. i've just ordered the wife a watch and told the retailer to ship it as a gift on someone's advice! coming from outside the eu and via fed ex, looks like i'm gonna be on customs and excise christmas card list. s**t.
is it 17.5% plus what?
thanks again, too late for me but i won't go dishing that one out again. unless it's to someone i don't like. haha.

You won't be on a christmas card list, you'll need to make payment before the goods are released.

[menace2sobriety]

Its definately worth checking what they will be posting the item in and by what method.

I ordered 2 Kozydan prints direct from the US (sent via US postal service) and they were posted in a toilet roll thin cardboard tube and were totally wrecked when they arrived. In fairness Kozydan were cool & sent me replacements, but still in the same crappy tube and still arrived damaged - replacement were not so bad and i cant be arsed to go through it all again.

In total contrast, faile arrived this morning again from US postal service but tube was hard as nails and print is in perfect condition!!

[alvington89]

Don't get me started on that DHL!
A hateful organisation that cost our company dearly a couple of Christmasses ago. (Lost about 2/3 of a number of urgent consignments and spoilt our relationship with a valued client and caused us loads of extra work and grief to sort out.
We will never use them again... EVER. Practically any other company you care to mention is preferable.
NEVER AGAIN!!!

[ricosg11]

my faile print was in a crap tube and im only 45 mins from where they shipped it and it came crushed.

[gbh]

everything I purchase is from abroad

8+)

generally, stuff from UK/Europe is in good strong tubes/flat and well packed.
99% of stuff bought from the US is sent in mega flimsy tubes, had many deliveries crushed from the US.
None from Europe/UK.

[RBK]

This may be overkill for transactions within the UK - but with all my international transactions I require double tubed (tube within a tube). The extra $10-15 for a second tube and slightly more postage is worth the potential hassle of insurance claims/damaged goods/etc.

[dwight]

rk, I completely agree and had already decided if I get brave enough to buy again, I will give the buyer an extra 10-15 quid for putting the first tube inside of another strong tube...

[azlan]

RK - do you want me to double tube your print then!??
(Tubes I'm using are 3mm thick bad boys / 100mm diameter)

[absyrd]

gbh said:

everything I purchase is from abroad

8+)

generally, stuff from UK/Europe is in good strong tubes/flat and well packed.
99% of stuff bought from the US is sent in mega flimsy tubes, had many deliveries crushed from the US.
None from Europe/UK.

I have the same problem. Most of my US stuff comes in those damn weak white Staple's tubes. I thought I was crazy for drawing that line, but I guess others do too.

[pezlow]

I've never had any problems with prints from faile. All come in thick white tubes. But obey....

[RBK]

azlan said:

RK - do you want me to double tube your print then!??
(Tubes I'm using are 3mm thick bad boys / 100mm diameter)

No that should be fine then Az.

[tadghostal]

Packaging/Shipment seems to be one of the biggest thorns in any collector's side. This topic has also been discussed exhaustively at the thegiant.org forums as well. For the more valuable prints, many of the members are using what I consider to be a very novel approach. They are double tubing prints with a cardboard/yazoo indestructable tube that is placed inside an appropriately sized 1/4" thick pvc pipe with threaded end-caps.

Sound like overkill?

Maybe. But I'll tell you what--the damn thing won't be crushed. And when you consider that so many of these prints are made in extremely limited runs, how many of them can we (as a community) really afford to be careless with? Each one that is destroyed reduces your potential chances of finding a replacement, and that will eventually drive the prices of the remaining prints sky-high. Not that they're super-affordable already, but you get my point . . .

The other great thing about using this method is, the tubes are re-usable seemingly indefinitely--particularly if you place the shipping label into one of those handy plastic pockets that can be affixed on the side of the tube. Simply slice the plastic carefully upon receipt, place your own shipping label inside, unscrew/rescrew the threaded end cap and ship away!

It *does* take some effort and expense to have these tubes made, but as many of you have already learnt--the hassles of so-called "insurance" are simply not worth it. And for god's sake, avoid carriers like DHL and UPS like the plague. I think their depot handlers use print tubes as dolly's to roll aircraft out of their hangars.



Now that I've written a short book on the topic, if you felt like there was anything worthwhile in my post (good grammar, proper punctuation, the fact that I hate George Bush, you think my user name is uber-sexy) please click the little plus sign in the lower corner of my name.

It will make your mother so happy when you do.

Jay

[corblimeylimey]

Thanks for that tadghostel, RE your quote "Each one that is destroyed reduces your potential chances of finding a replacement, and that will eventually drive the prices of the remaining prints sky-high."

We'll never know how many get lost, damaged or destroyed but you can bet the amount of perfect ones are less than the original run.

As for your tubing suggestion, it sounds expensive, I know it would make sure your print gets to someone else O.K. but you can't be sure that the person sending to you will be so careful, the answer of course would be to send a tube for the sender to use.

[pastiepie]

I think PVC piping is slight overkill. Being in Australia all my prints bar one have had to travel all the way across the globe. All have been in POW style carboard tubes no problem. Even one home-made triangular shaped tube made it all the way no problems. All this of course by the standard international carrier.

I avoid courier's like the plague after a framed print arrived smashed to smitherines and all the broken glass cut up the print.

You must be from the US tadghostal as all the new members from those parts seems to be asking for respect, seriously why do you care?

[tadghostal]

As far as the respect thing goes? I couldn't give a shit less. Actually, it was intended as a sendup of another post that I encountered earlier and thought "ha ha! that's fucking retarded." So I decided I'd start doing it myself.

You should do the same thing. And while you're at it, you should show me some respect.


<snickering to myself with glee>

[pastiepie]

ironic humour yeah I get it, must of had my radar turned off.

[absyrd]

If I was working at a post office and saw a giant PVC pipe like that, I'd probably want to run it throught the ol' xray machine.

But, yeah, living in the US sucks when the majority of artists you are into live in Europe.

[RBK]

Be happy that you don't have to pay the 17.5% VAT on your purchases though!

[kayray100]

sorry, what's VAT?

[tadghostal]

VAT is a-hole tax, i.e., after they've taken all the money from your wallet and your pockets, they start searching any ol dark place they think it might be hidden. . . . at least that's what it seems like to an outside observer.

No idea why they feel the need to make everything so much more expensive for ordinary people.