[buffruffly]

I've thought of a possible solution how Banksy can come out of the present situation with his head held high. Let's face it, at the moment his credentials as an anti-corporate street artist are at odds with the sky high prices his work is fetching. He has become part of the very establishment that he is mocking.

so.....

proposed solution.......

Banksy floods the market with prints. I mean, hundreds and thousands of them. The outcome being that it will devalue the present market and allow access to his work by the masses on the street. The only people that will be pissed off are the rich wankers who've splashed out on his work for the wrong reasons, as everyone else will be fine with it as they bought it because they loved it.

The irony is that this act will be an act of art in itself and will probably make him even more famous......sigh....maybe there's no escape for him.....

[Octopus UK]

The irony is that this was Warhol's philosophy at the start of his career. Popular art for the masses. But look at the prices that his work (only 20-30 years old?) now commands. Out of the reach of many people who'd love a print of his.

[monkeypuzzle]

buffruffly said:

I've thought of a possible solution how Banksy can come out of the present situation with his head held high. Let's face it, at the moment his credentials as an anti-corporate street artist are at odds with the sky high prices his work is fetching. He has become part of the very establishment that he is mocking.

so.....

proposed solution.......

Banksy floods the market with prints. I mean, hundreds and thousands of them. The outcome being that it will devalue the present market and allow access to his work by the masses on the street. The only people that will be pissed off are the rich wankers who've splashed out on his work for the wrong reasons, as everyone else will be fine with it as they bought it because they loved it.

The irony is that this act will be an act of art in itself and will probably make him even more famous......sigh....maybe there's no escape for him.....

OR.... maybe he isnt anti-capitalist at all, cant remember seeing anything about anti-capitalism from the man, maybe just doing what he has done and is doing by redefining the accesibilty and acceptance of non-establishment art in the general public is more than reason enough to hold his head up high, have a holiday on a beach and live in a nice house, bet it makes a nice change from all those cold winter nights shaking half empty paint tins at 3 a.m whilst waiting for the first coat to dry, knowing he had a decorating job on in 4 hours time and he could be at home in his bed.

[rob]

I may be wrong but, there already is art available for the masses. You can buy a soup can poster for a tenner from POW or even download pictures for free off banksy.co.uk why on earth would he want to devalue his own work?

He produced a series of 1000 for the ghetto, but small time peddlers still stick them on ebay to earn a quick £100 or so. Sadly these are now the editions the general public will be buying from now on.

Do you not think that Banksy or The Laz gallery don't realise that most of the general public only buy the art because they can double their own small investment of about £150 overnight, not for the love of the image.

I personally have a nice collection that I have been buying for 3 years, because I like the images. I do however respect the finantial value of my Banksy's and would be lying if I said I hadn't thought about their worth.

Anyway, If he can earn 100K for 1 canvas from Hollywood 'A' listers then why not?

[cityman]

octopusuk said:

The irony is that this was Warhol's philosophy at the start of his career. Popular art for the masses. But look at the prices that his work (only 20-30 years old?) now commands. Out of the reach of many people who'd love a print of his.

Warhol also advocated backdoor prints and the German company knocking out his images of Marilyn etc - now that is art for the masses.

[beejoir1]

.......... quote from the guy sitting opposite me,

''Sitting in the Traffic on the M5 bitching about the traffic, when you ARE the traffic.''

Banksy will always be a driving force in street art, just wait for another coule of months and see what he blows you mind with!

[slowmo]

Thats a great little quote, sitting in the traffic, bitching about the traffic when you are the traffic.

[buffruffly]

so Trollies isn't anti-capitalist?

[corblimeylimey]

buffruffly said:

so Trollies isn't anti-capitalist?

I think it's aimed more at consumers.

[monkeypuzzle]

buffruffly said:

so Trollies isn't anti-capitalist?

Nah, as CBL says, I think its more anti consumerism, his anti war and anti authoritatian views have been well represented ( CND, HAND, Happy choppers, flying copper etc....), but really dont think he's that bothered about capitalism or the state of the global market, but the good thing is his art can be viewed in different ways depending on your POV, some feel Monkey queen is anti-monarchy, i think its more to express his love of primates, to the degree that one should be crowned, hence the earlier piece, Laugh now but one day we will be in charge..... ( with another cheeky monkey...)

[BK83]

I feel like we go over this quite a lot.

Banksy has never been for the little guy. From the beginning he was just an artists trying to make it -- he had a great little marketing niche that struck a chord with the masses and now after many years of hard work he has reached his goal -- he doesn't want to have loads of art for everyone to buy up -- he wants to be able to drive an underground market that fuels the upper tier markets with canvas sales and sculpture sales -- where the big $$$ are.

Banksy is a fucking genius!! he has created a market where us fans think he is being our spokeman when in reality is laughing all the way to the bank that we bought his cute little idea... come on now -- take a closer look.

[buffruffly]

isn't consumerism a product of capitalism?

[Run Pig Run]

I heard a rumour banksy isn't even a real person but a company set up by richard branson where a load of students fuck about with crayons all day.
I think we are all over analysing and trying to second guess every move he makes and therefore twisting and fucking up the reason we loved his work in the first place. I know because i'm guilty of it myself.
Before the prints and this forum I used to just look forward to seeing some street art either on the street or in the next little book, now it's all "whens Trolleys coming out" or "POW have taken over 13 days to deliever my print"
I think we should all go back to the drawing board, go and have a flick through wall and piece tonight and reflect on how sad we ALL are.

[corblimeylimey]

bombhugger said:

I heard a rumour banksy isn't even a real person but a company set up by richard branson where a load of students f**k about with crayons all day.
I think we are all over analysing and trying to second guess every move he makes and therefore twisting and f**king up the reason we loved his work in the first place. I know because i'm guilty of it myself.
Before the prints and this forum I used to just look forward to seeing some street art either on the street or in the next little book, now it's all "whens Trolleys coming out" or "POW have taken over 13 days to deliever my print"
I think we should all go back to the drawing board, go and have a flick through wall and piece tonight and reflect on how sad we ALL are.

I'm not sad, I'm quite happy Was looking at the book earlier today and showed it to a couple of visiting artists who hadn't heard of him

[Curley]

bombhugger said:

I think we are all over analysing and trying to second guess every move he makes and therefore twisting and f**king up the reason we loved his work in the first place. I know because i'm guilty of it myself.
Before the prints and this forum I used to just look forward to seeing some street art either on the street or in the next little book, now it's all "whens Trolleys coming out" or "POW have taken over 13 days to deliever my print"
I think we should all go back to the drawing board, go and have a flick through wall and piece tonight and reflect on how sad we ALL are.

Well said.

As long as he keeps painting the streets i would be happy never to own another Banksy print.
It was the art on the Streets that i loved first not these expensive posters that everyone is obsessing about. I am always out and about with a camera taking pictures, in fact i have more than 1500 of them and to me they are more valuable than any of my prints. ;D

Some people need to get out more.

[Ågent ßacardi]

corblimeylimey said:

buffruffly said:

so Trollies isn't anti-capitalist?

I think it's aimed more at consumers.

"Festival" (a.k.a. "Fight Capitalism"), one of the yet-to-be-released LA prints, is a bit more anti-capitalist. More specifically, I think it's a dig at how capitalism can exploit even the 'anti-capitalist' mentality and use it to their advantage.

A quote from Banksy (from W&P, if I remember correctly): "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves."

So I would say that capitalism is definitely one of Banksy's hot-button issues...

[tomhills1]

banksy is an artist. he produces images on various media that are limited. he has done so since day one. rude copper - 250, love is in the air - 500, flying copper - 750. if these were open ended editions he never would have been able to sell enough to move onto his next project. in doing so and selling original canvasses, albeit in small editions, he made a steady income to support himself and continue his progress as an artist.

that alone was never going to be enough, so you have the blur album cover, the street art, the palestinian wall, the paris hilton album, the guantanenmo (sic?) prisoner at disneyland etc help raise his profile to astronomical proportions. also his clandestine actions only serve to heighten the intrigue.

the by-product of this deliberate and calculated marketing strategy is us lot. those who actually look at the art and not the hype. we buy because we like, not because we went to a party with jude law and bought a piece.

to qoute the original post "The only people that will be pissed off are the rich wankers who've splashed out on his work for the wrong reasons", i'm not a rich wanker but i did pay a couple of thousand for my grin reaper. i was late in discovering banksy and as such paid a premium for it. i even took out a loan to pay for it because i didn't want the market to run away from me. i would be a little p*ssed off if it suddenly became worthless but it is an image i will never tire of and as such i would happily write of the money, my wife wouldn't!

banksy's image is self-facilitating: he wants to be in with the big boys selling originals for six figures, while a small bunch of militant supporters (us) maintain his self-styled image of a street artist.

i love his work and because of him i joined this forum and because of this forum i now know about loads of other artists and as such he is not the be all and end all for me. if i'm being honest i'd say his new work, the LA prints, don't begin to measure up to the earlier work. so long as he comes back with something that excites me i'll buy it, if not then i won't.

i hope he still tries to please us all rather than go exclusively through laz @£4k a print + vat a' la micallef.

i don't care about the grand scheme, just about thought-provoking art, that puts a smile on your face.

the end.

[finsburyparkranger]

Banksy does tend to either use anti capitalist platforms or draws inspiration from anti capitalist movements.

Banksy's turf war was a celebration of the reclaim the streets movement. His LA exhibition was to draw attention to the fact that there 'is a large elephant in the room that we are not talking about - poverty'. He's been constantly anti royal (monkey queen not anti royal, come on !). He is pre occupied with mocking authority (happy chopper, country side CCTV). He follows the hippy trail often and is quick to be a presence at alternative festivals. He also is fast to defend the underdog and highlight the awful Palestine wall. He's stood up for human rights abuse in his work regarding Guantanamo bay. He question's our crazy consumerist / capitalist world all the time (barcode , christ with shopping). He critises America in 'have a nice day'. He parody's the whole concept of money in 'Di-faced money'. Also he questions the stupidity for our environmental degradation in his canvases of old England. Whilst in his laugh now prints speculates that mankind (the way it is going) will not last as long as it thinks.

I think it would be wrong to say that Banksy is not political or that he doesn't side with the alternative world movement that is commonly termed anti-capitalist.

[tadghostal]

Banksy is a cheeseburger. A cheeseburger with extra-crispy bacon and a fat side of fries (chips, whatever).

Yummmmmmmm. I'm going to grab myself a Banksy for lunch.

[slowmo]

What?

[tomhills1]

tadghostal said:

Banksy is a cheeseburger. A cheeseburger with extra-crispy bacon and a fat side of fries (chips, whatever).

Yummmmmmmm. I'm going to grab myself a Banksy for lunch.

:ojay, you back on the crack again? you know it's whack

[tomhills1]

finsburyparkranger said:

Banksy does tend to either use anti capitalist platforms or draws inspiration from anti capitalist movements.

I think it would be wrong to say that Banksy is not political or that he doesn't side with the alternative world movement that is commonly termed anti-capitalist.

but then surely someone who employs jo brooks management/PR whatever, has a manager - steve lazerides, is pals with dangermouse and damon allbran is not themselves anti-capalist, however much he sides with their views?

you are judged by your actions, not your words. as my mother used to say.

[Lewis Bannister]

Well i thought at first Banksy was all about the underground graffiti movement making the walls look better and im sure he was !!! if you look thought his work in the streets from start to now there are getting alot smaller and alot less of them popping up..... fair enough hes got to keep his head down because even next doors cat know who Banksy is ... but i think he went to the other side as soon as he went hollywood ! with his LA show ! why on earth did he go there ? he seems to hate USA ! so why and all we hear is the originals get bought up by the rich hollywood idiots who think buying british graffiti (Banksy) art makes them cool !! but what does it make Banksy for selling it at this price ?? if he had made it clear that he sells his stuff to gain then no one would have questions to ask like this but he goes on like he hates money makers ?? and now its impossible for him to release a canvas again for sale because if he does then he has to price high enough to stop people going straight to sothebys ! and thats only leaving the rich city t**ts able to buy ( who know nothing) !! so is he thinking DAM !! i can't price at prices my reall fans can afford or is he simply thinking f**k'em !! if rich morons wanna buy then let'em ?? sorry this probably makes no sense lol im at work and tired shoot me now !!!

[tadghostal]

tomhills1 said:

tadghostal said:

Banksy is a cheeseburger. A cheeseburger with extra-crispy bacon and a fat side of fries (chips, whatever).

Yummmmmmmm. I'm going to grab myself a Banksy for lunch.

:ojay, you back on the crack again? you know it's whack

You don't need to tell me. I know, "Crack Kills."

[Lewis Bannister]

DAM !!! they should put that on anti-drug posters !!

[tomhills1]

tadghostal said:

tomhills1 said:

:ojay, you back on the crack again? you know it's whack

You don't need to tell me. I know, "Crack Kills."

;D

[tadghostal]

Artists produce art via their time, energy and talent.

Once the art is produced, it stands on its own. Banksy's work doesn't really need Banksy to do *anything* at this point for it to be important or poignant. And I can't understand all the prattle about what Banksy should or should not do to stay true to some unspoken manifesto about capitalism/consumerism. Most of the time I love reading these boards, but the threads where people try to solve nonexistent problems (like most of this thread), or complain about "flippers"/"I deserve this print because I'm so sensitive/connected to the idea"/"etc, etc, etc"--they are mind numbing.

The guy uses art as a social commentary. Does he really need to do much more? Besides, it seems to me that he is not criticising money per-se, either from the perspective of generating it through business or from having it as a person. Maybe he's criticising dumb corporatism in the blind pursuit of profits, or the fact that people are mindless sheep consuming everything they can get their grubby fucking hands on, while never really thinking--or more importantly, never really living. i.e., if you're wasting your fucking life at a job you hate, getting fat, depressed, etc. just to have a bit of cash so you can buy a bunch of meaningless shite--maybe its time to rethink a few things.

Why not just let the man do whatever he wants, and quit acting like your opinion should matter? He made the art, and created the interest because he took action on something he wanted to do. Its a unique act in and of itself in these days of brainless conformity. Maybe Banksy should just say "Fuck all" and be done with it.

Or maybe its not that important after all.

Which is why I felt compelled to say something meaningless about cheeseburgers. It has about as much to do with Banksy as all this speculation does.

[tomhills1]

i think you're bang on the money there jay. the sad truth being, all the time banksy stays incognito this sort of conjecture is inevitable. as pointless as these regular little dicussions are they're never going to go away.

plus, i get to have an opinion, which is more than i get at home.

[finsburyparkranger]

None conformist cheeseburgers in an anti establishment sesame seed bun with a dash socialist red sauce to be precise. ;D

[tadghostal]

tomhills1 said:

plus, i get to have an opinion, which is more than i get at home.

LW, I feel for you man! I may not get much else, but at least I get to have an opinion. . . .

. . . Then again maybe my opinions are exactly what's keeping me from getting anything else.