[tomhills1]

here's one for you.

i had the opportunity to buy a morons on friday morning. i missed it, not necessarily because i didn't want to buy it but more so because i didn't move quick enough.

let me give you a few detalis: i went to bed on thursday night having been made aware that morons went up for sale at 3pm and then the POW site crashed, etc, etc. i had had an email at lunchtime to tell me they were going up at 3pm, but it was totally irrellavent(sic?) as i didn't get home 'til nearly six.

all this i thought was quite amusing, i read the various posts on here about missing out and CBL's number 62 and thought i was best off out of it. then, i got a phone call around 4am telling me the remainder were up on the website for sale. i missed this call and got the answer phone message just after, then a text telling me the same thing, all from a very trusted member of this forum.

basically, by the time i had got all this information and decided whether or not to act upon it it was too late. i went downstairs, logged on and they were all gone.

my point is, i didn't really want this print but saw an opportunity to get a signed edition that would make great swapsy material of re-sale to get my long-lusted-after LITA. the ends justify the means etc.

what i'm getting at is, given the chance, who would pass up that opportunity if it meant you could subsidise your holy grail of prints? it's all academic as i missed out, i just want to know if anyone has the morals to walk away from something valuble they don't want, even thogh they had the opportunity.

not sure if i could of. think long and hard about it and tell me honestly you wouldn't do the same. it's a horrible feeling to konw that you would become what you despise just to get other prints you can't afford.

don't be judgementle, just put yourself in my shoes and tell me why you wouldn't do what i was going to, only to have that choice vanish in front of me.

points awarded for honesty ;D

[stuey09]

I think you make a reasonable point, and I've never had a reason to question your integrity from past posts and I wouldn't presume to start now. IMHO the issue is with those who have no interest in art but bought Morons purely for profit. It was this minority, and I do believe it was a minority, that made it even more difficult for those of us, who genuinely wanted to put the print up on our walls, to do so at an affordable price. However, it's history now. Bring on Trolley's so we can go through the whole thing yet again

[monkeypuzzle]

Personally I have no prob with collectors buying prints they plan to use as a swap, if they cant find the swap they still have another piece in their collection, by an artist they are at least interested in. A much better situation than Bertie Bagger buying prints for quick profit and no interest whatsoever. The trouble is actually finding the swap Wednesday, you may have seen my weekly postings for the last while looking for an unobtainable bombhugger, offering well over the odds in swaps or considering and cash requests ( none as yet I hasten to add). I was lucky enough to swap 2 nice prints for a LIITA a few weeks ago, but the swapee was VERY nervous as they couldn't understand why I was offering 2 prints with a perceived value a good bit higher than the LIITA, even after I explained it was a print I had been interested in for a while but no oportunity to get and would rather offload 2 prints that ment less to me than the one I would be getting.
Good luck with the hunt, keep us posted.

[Octopus UK]

I would of taken one of these prints with the intention of using it to make a swap or part exchange for another Banksy. I got some negative feedback for saying this. But don't we have a section on this forum for actually offering trades and swaps? On this scheme there would be two winners, I'd get my ideal Banksy and soemone (who wanted it) would get a Morons.

Of course when I got it I might of been so impressed that I decided this was the Banksy I'd like to keep - even with the word sh*t in it.

[7eny]

Ok, I'll be honest.

With the rising cost of prints etc, IF there was a signed Banksy I really really wanted but seeing the currently ebay pricing of nearly £5k now, I know I couldn't afford it and if a new print was coming out that I knew I would be able to swap for it and only cost £500. I'd try buy the print I didn't like just so I could swap it for the one I really wanted. Sorry

Having said that I have done this and I'm currently choosing frames .

[taco]

I didn't get a moron's print on Thursday as couldn't get onto POW. Now quite glad as realised if had, my credit card would have been taken well past credit limit.

Would have been more annoying if had gotten through, paid, then had credit card rejected the next day, so in a strange way happy didn't get through. Now I can still blame POW and not my own lack of foresight ;D

[tomhills1]

it's weird as i would probably criticise someone for just picking one up for self-gain. yet the thing that persauded me was the fact it was four in the morning and i really want a couple of older banksy prints and this way i could have got them for the £500/£650 outlay of a signed morons.

like i said it didn't transpire for the simple fact i was too late, but that's not to say i wouldn't have tried. just nice to know i'm not on my own when it comes to compromises if it suits your own ends. not something to be proud of but it was a split minute decision at 4am and i thought - look after number one. maybe justice was done, i missed out yet i'm not that fussed and hopefully someone who actually wanted it beat me to it. won't hold my breath on that one though.

[corblimeylimey]

I have to agree with the points in this thread, it's something that I didn't used to agree with and I've posted here months ago saying something along the lines of if I'm not interested in keeping it I won't buy it, most people at the time were saying to me buy anything and swap for what you want.

The BIG difference I think is where there's a genuine interest in this type of art and ploughing any gain back into art, as opposed to people who don't know and are not interested in anything about the art and just see the cash profit.

[ricosg11]

Lesbo, i gotta say i agree with everything you said except the part of it being a question about morality. Nothin wrong with the situation you described above. Just the nature of limited editions. You win some, you lose some. There are as s holes in every aspect of life.

[budoukiba]

Good thread lesbianwednesdays!

I think that there isn't a problem with people buying prints that they do not necessarily want and plan to use it in a trade for something they do. In the print world these days you dont really get a chance to decide whether you actually want the print or not because if you dont buy it straight away then your going to have to pay inflated ebay costs. I am pretty new to the print scene and have a fairly small collection, but as i am a student i have very little expendable income so it is pretty much impossible for me to buy most prints at their current ebay costs, expecially something like a micallef or a banksy. I am trying to build up a collection of various pieces from my favourite artists, but most of the prints i prefer are past editions and therefore sold out and very expensive. I have sold a couple of prints recently, but only to use that money to buy a print that i really want. Is this wrong?

I only buy prints that i actually like and are from artists i love, but sometimes i sell of trade these prints for something i want more. I do feel guilty if i buy a print which im pretty sure i will use to get a different print as i sypathise with the people who missed out on the print and really wanted it (this has happened to me a lot recently ) but it is the only way i am able to purchase the art that i want.

I despise scalpers as much as anybody as they only do it for a profit and have no interest in the art itself, but is buying prints to trade just as immoral?

I was lucky enough to get an unsigned Morons (my first Banksy!! ) and i love the image and cant wait to see it in the flesh, but would i be tempted to use it in a trade for a different Banksy? Im not too sure yet

[tomhills1]

sorry monkeypuzzle, well done on getting LIITA, if memory serves me right you already serves you already have a wicked collection? not that i'm jealous (much) . , green as a jolly green giant right now!!

[smartussi]

Great topic!

Looks liek ther eare alot of similar opinions here...definatly thought provoking

[ctc2]

I did just what you described. I kind of halfway talked myself into thinking I wanted to keep it. Things were confirmed when my wife told me she really did not like it. I really hope to trade my Morons for an Applause. Somehow, I don't really feel immoral about it because I want to do a trade. Seems different than if I just put it out on ebay and took the cash.

[monkeypuzzle]

tomhills1 said:

sorry monkeypuzzle, well done on getting LIITA, if memory serves me right you already serves you already have a wicked collection? not that i'm jealous (much) . , green as a jolly green giant right now!!

Thanks Wednesday, I have been lucky to have been collecting for a few years now, require hugger, pulp, rude copper and radar rat for the whole print run, copper and the rat are well beyond my modest means now with pulp and hugger still atainable ( just now), my golf sale went to someone last year who promised to apreciate it more than I do, and they have been true to their word. Never been a fan of selling art but usually happy to swap ( which makes me one hell of a hypocrit as I have bought the majority of my prints from either POW or the bay), hence my lack of botheration for anyone who bought the print to enhance their own collection. I hasten to add I was lucky enough to have built my collection before scalping was the problem it is now, so feel OK about not liking scalpers.

[neutral]

I really do not see anything wrong with buying and then wanted to swap for something you want better, or even reselling it to reinvest into another piece really.
It is somehow contributing one way or another. Saying that I never sold a print on the bay nor bought and I did swap once with a friend who liked the piece much more than I did.

Of course it is a different mentality than buying a print for a quick profit yet it does also allow people who have missed the boat to get a chance to catch back. There is surely a price to pay for it but we cant always have it all all the time (unfortunately).
If all were buying for the pure love, that will still make some person unhappy as I am sure there is more than 300 people lovin the sepia version, or maybe not?

[Montubu7]

I purchased a signed one for myself, possibly in the hope of swapping it at some point for one of the three Banksy prints i am really after, although as its my first Banksy print i would be just as happy to frame it up & keep it.

I also gave one 1 x signed Morons print to a forum member ( dont know if they have posted this so wont say who) for face value + £20 squid. ( Ignore the fact its a limit of 1 its easy to work around that)

I also phoned a few people from this forum( 2 in the morning) who managed to get prints so thats my good deed for the month!

I could if i wanted easily have grabbed 20+ signed prints but chose to hold a few for people & finally boot them out the basket for others.

Same with the Dface print, one for me & one for someone i know.

For me its quite good as my strike rate is spot on & had i wanted i could have got most everything of late including Bleks 4 prints & obs got Banksy/Dface & the random Micallef print that appeared on Pow a few weeks back.

Although people may think im a c**t even though a few known Touts have emailed me to ask them for help in getting whichever prints i have chosen not to 'Tip' them off & help ot a few other peeps on here.

Im also confident of getting the next print release from Banksy, if its the one im after thats great but even if not it will go in my swap pille for later....

[tomhills1]

i think the crux of this issue is this: if i didn't buy this print someone else would. transversly, if it weren't for the baggers, i would have time to decide whether or not to buy one. it's a bit of a catch 22.

do you buy because you can exploit a situation to your own ends, or because if you didn't, some bagger would.

not that i'm saying i agree with the thatcherite view of everyman for himself but i was very tempted to become what i despise, for the simple fact that if you can't beat them, then maybe you should join them?

i hate myself for running downstairs and looking to line my own, but i still stand by my humanist persona that is essentially flawed. didn't get a print and still feel guilty, maybe i should've been a catholic

[nombei]

thanks to the site crashing and then coming back on line at a time that worked well for those of us on the US West Coast, i was able to get a Sepia Morons. i'll admit, it's not anything close to my favorite Banksy piece...but after not buying up the prints i liked better when they were all just sitting on POW years ago, i felt like i didn't want to miss out on a rare chance to get a signed Banksy.

once it shows up and i get a good look at it, i'll know if i want to put it on the wall or not. if the answer is "not", then i'll see if anyone here wants to trade for something. while i have purchased some prints from eBay, grinding a print on eBay is not my thing.

[neutral]

tomhills1 said:

maybe i should've been a catholic

With a name like "lesbianwednesdays" I am sure they will love you as a catholic

[tomhills1]

neutral said:

tomhills1 said:

maybe i should've been a catholic

With a name like "lesbianwednesdays" I am sure they will love you as a catholic

or five year old boys thursdays? ouch

[neutral]

You cracked me up....

[stuey09]

neutral said:

tomhills1 said:

maybe i should've been a catholic

With a name like "lesbianwednesdays" I am sure they will love you as a catholic

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[ABC]

I dont know why but when they came up on Thursday I was online from the off, I went for an "Unsigned" one reason was that I dont think the image is that great but didnt want to miss out. Yes I could have gone for a signed but thought there was no chance. In the end I didnt get any so should not have bothered for any. Got appluase from Flee Bay so why not Morons becuase there is going to be loads soon.

A good thread and If I thought there was a chance of getting a signed Im sure I would be telling porkies if I said I didnt want one.

[arcam]

I was one of the lucky ones who happened to be awake when the prints came back on sale. And I have to admit I'm kicking myself I didn't buy another purely for the purpose of a swap. I am not a fan of purchasing items through ebay but unfortunately that's where you have to go in order to further your collection. I much prefer the idea of swapping a print for another with someone from this site. If anything you can be assured that the print will be genuine.

If you think about it and everyone on here bought a second (if the chance came about) then maybe through 'swapping' there won't be the need to go to ebay? In theory it could work. Cover each others backs as it were. I'm just thinking out loud. ;D

[budoukiba]

maybe we should set up some sort of trading area where we can list which prints we own but would trade if something we wanted more was offered

[arcam]

budoukiba said:

maybe we should set up some sort of trading area where we can list which prints we own but would trade if something we wanted more was offered

One already exists.

banksyforum.proboards82.com/index.cgi?board=ebaychat

[budoukiba]

hahaha yeah i know, but i mean maybe a thread where can all list what we have and may trade. That way we can all help each other out to build our own personal collections

[gbh]

Understand everyone's points, all very valid.

is this an investment forum or an art forum?
is it the same thing?
I dunno.

[corblimeylimey]

The deciding factor for me is would I be happy to keep it.

For the Morons the answer is yes, although I might be open to swops, to get something I prefer.

When the latest Faile release came on POW I was lucky enough to bag a 1 of 5 edition of Happens Every Day (i just happened to take a look at the moment they came live, all the other editions had already sold out, I was just looking) but I put it in my basket for another member of this forum, when they declined it (for cost price) I let it go, I felt this the right thing to do as I had no interest in it at all personally.

I took the same reasoning on the Dan Baldwin prints, I'm not interested because I don't really want them, although I could see a very real potential rise in value.

Buy art because you like it, I know it's been said a dozen times before but that's the most important thing, you can get down to the nitty gritty of whether you prefer something else later.

[dmandpenfold]

CBL's and the other points are all good, at the end of the day the value of the individual piece is personal and what you would pay and trade for it varies depending on your appreciation of the artists work. Stating the obvious really..

More by luck than judgement i was in the right place at the right time to be able to buy a Morons print, this being the first Bansky print i have been able to get at original price from POW. I have a modest collection of 12 prints by various artists and am keen to pick up some Micallef work, however the prices fetched on ebay and galleries mean i could only just about stretch to an Angel Bomber which i think would still leave me wanting and feeling i had compromised because of affordability. My intent is to hold onto the Morons print for sometime, however i am also very aware that given it will rise rapidly in price, it may give me the chance to extend my bargaining power when going for that 'Micallef print' and allow me to at least seriously consider some of the more expensive pieces.

Like some of you i could have picked up all the latest Black Le Rat prints, but these didnt appeal to me and i dropped the one i was thinking about out of the basket in the end, this was a matter of personal taste and monetary value didnt come into it.

Even through trades we are helping each other out as the bagger doesnt want to trade they are only interested in the fast buck, generally the trades are offered through this forum and to real collectors and if someone is able to pick up a print for trade which may have otherwise gone to a bagger then this is still for mutual benefit of the collectors and not a plain case of motivation for money.

I addition if you know someone wants a print and they arent able to pick one up then there's no harm in ordering it and passing it on at cost, at least its gone to a good and appreciative home. I phoned a couple of guys on this forum re- the Morons print when it appeared in the early hours, fortunately one of them managed to get the message and was able to pick up a print. At that time there was only 8 people logged into the forum and just about all were in the US, everyone made a huge effort to try and contact those asleep in the UK and i am hoping as a result a lot more people got prints that they would have otherwise missed.

If everyone can do even a little bit by trading, by holding in their basket and warning about releasing or even buying for someone you know is keen, then this forum is a much better place, karma spreads around and it does something to keep the 'profiteers' at bay.

my rather long tuppence-worth..