[hasselhoff]

I left work at 4pm yesterday and raced from Cambridge to London in an attempt to get to TLSG to obtain a SBFO print. I knew the chances of getting one were relatively slim, but thought I'd try my luck anyway.

I missed out by about 8 places in the queue in the end and I find it soul destroying to find approximately that number listed on ebay already.

It used to be fun, I could dither for a couple of days over a signed Banksy on POW and I could decide which Faile print I would like (I could even ask Patrick for my choice of edition #). Now I'm fighting with people who are just buying in order to sell on for a (very) quick profit. I am not on a premier league footballer's salary so I cannot afford to buy the pieces I want from the secondary market.

I know times change and I've studied economics, so I understand supply and demand and how free markets work - but it's just no fun for me any more. The whole scene has become far too competetive for me and I am announcing my retirement.

I will still keep up with the goings on of the art market, but I am relieving myself from the pressure of competing for prints with souless profiteers.

I understand I may come in for some criticism from my peers but I am sure that I'm not the only one feeling like this at the moment.

All the best.

[becksaboo]

I think a lot of people are....

[Gentle Mental]

i've just started, and i'm thinking of giving up!


thank god for guy denning!

[babyford]

I cant work out these re-sellers. The print is amazing - No love or money will I part with mine. :)There is one on ebay at moment from a guy whom had to re-list it as he had it unsigned!!!! Obvously did not even check print!!! Same seller sold his fools gold the next day after release!

[beau]

Well depressing!

I too missed out by not many was wet and sad! put a bid on one last night for £350 - went to bed thinking is that too much what have i done - woke up to be laughed at - well outbid - one on for £995 - sad

[paulx01]

Great standing with you all in the pre-massive downpour queue yesterday! Definitely well worth the 6 hours wait ... special cheers too for the conversation and espresso, Babyford! Fab hospitality from the TLSG staff in our moment of need too! If the opportunity were to arise, would I do it again? Yeah!! Enjoy your prints. All being well this one is off to the framers in the next couple of weeks. Managed to see the framed print on the gallery wall before leaving, it looked really impressive with a white mount and white frame. Excellent ...

[mammal2]

hasselhoff said:

I left work at 4pm yesterday and raced from Cambridge to London in an attempt to get to TLSG to obtain a SBFO print. I knew the chances of getting one were relatively slim, but thought I'd try my luck anyway.

I missed out by about 8 places in the queue in the end and I find it soul destroying to find approximately that number listed on ebay already.

It used to be fun, I could dither for a couple of days over a signed Banksy on POW and I could decide which Faile print I would like (I could even ask Patrick for my choice of edition #). Now I'm fighting with people who are just buying in order to sell on for a (very) quick profit. I am not on a premier league footballer's salary so I cannot afford to buy the pieces I want from the secondary market.

I know times change and I've studied economics, so I understand supply and demand and how free markets work - but it's just no fun for me any more. The whole scene has become far too competetive for me and I am announcing my retirement.

I will still keep up with the goings on of the art market, but I am relieving myself from the pressure of competing for prints with souless profiteers.

I understand I may come in for some criticism from my peers but I am sure that I'm not the only one feeling like this at the moment.

All the best.

you'll be back.....

[slowmo]

I have now stood in a queue unsuccessfully twice, last night I was only trying to pick one up for Thomas. I have come to the conclusion that it is a very bad idea to have print releases of less than 500 edition on a queue basis as its just a nightmare when you miss out.

I wonder if, on the strength of beejoir selling out 140 (did they sell the a/p's?) or 125 in about 30 minutes, Santa's ghetto could ever open its doors again? I bought Judgement day and Flag by rolling up to the shop after the queue had long gone, doubt very much that would happen now.

[gordy]

Bigger editions also would lower the resale price etc....

The Flag was 1000 which is probably more realistic in the current climate!

But then there would not be as much hype?

[mammal2]

I wish all Banksy were runs of 1000! fuck it make that 10,000!!!

[ambrosiabaptism]

I think there are positives and negatives to this.
Real art lovers are now searching of new, undiscovered artists so they can buy art which is affordable to them. This helps the development of new ideas/themes/interests, moving the dinosaurs out and giving finance to those with a need.
Profiteering from art can only be sustained if there is a market. If we stop thinking we need the pieces there and then and art lovers pull out of this market the price will fall ... maybe there would be PANIC SELLING instead of PANIC BUYING !?
"The big wheel keeps on turning ... one man troubles while another relaxs.." - Massive Attack

[slowmo]

Don't believe the hype! ;D I honestly believe that this print should have been a 500 run, well popular with people (don't see the attraction myself) if they had done 500 the queue would all have got one, the rest (maybe as much as 300) could have been sold online to those who can't get to London.

Small runs are all well and good, but when the popularity is there, up the numbers.

[gordy]

Next banksy edition of 5000.....sorted ;D ;D

We will all be able to have a trolley!!!!

[manchestermike]

Everything is a bunfight... it's getting very difficult to get work by the artist(s) of your choice from the primary seller if anything at all has been said about them on forums... Almost makes you try and keep them a secret... but it gets out in the end...

[Ågent ßacardi]

If you feel the futility, imagine how you'd feel if you were in a totally different continent (and time zone) like me!

I can totally empathize with the feeling of defeat, but methinks you'll be back after some time. After all, as with everything else in life, you win some and you lose some. So you lost this one... but there's plenty for you to win in the future yet!

Still, I'm so sorry that your steadfast efforts were all for naught. I feel very angry for you that blatant flippers (definition: people who bought only for the SOLE purpose of profit and didn't even give a damn who Beejoir is) got in your way.

[gordy]

Word has it Mike that Banksy fella is quite good!!!!! ;D ;D
LOL

[manchestermike]

gordy said:

Word has it Mike that Banksy fella is quite good!!!!! ;D ;D
LOL

You bastard... they'll ALL know now!

[mcnuts]

slowmo said:

Don't believe the hype! ;D I honestly believe that this print should have been a 500 run, well popular with people (don't see the attraction myself) if they had done 500 the queue would all have got one, the rest (maybe as much as 300) could have been sold online to those who can't get to London.

Small runs are all well and good, but when the popularity is there, up the numbers.

To be honest, I'm quite amazed at the demand of this print. I thought about trying to go for the SBFO on iraqi cash but passed as the image didn't work for me. I, obviously wrongly, didn't peg these to sell out as quickly as they did. I see this run and the smaller run as day and night and can't get my head around the demand, especially paying close to 1000GBP for the bigger edition. WHere the hell does all this cash come from?

As for selling it, yes, i can see why people did wait in line. That much cash, quickly, who wouldn't? As has been said before, it all seems a bit mad and a lot like a bubble. The board also generates interest in artists and people art touting as well (the new concert tickets).

The debate has been had and rehashed, I'll just watch from the sidelines and save my cash for a banksy

But the line between tout and fan and re-seller and on-line gallery is a fine one. NOt even a fine one, a blurry one at best.

IS everyone a tout or a flipper trying to buy the next signed banksy no matter what the image in order to have banksy collateral?

You show me one person who will honestly pass up the chance to buy one as he doesnt like the image. I'm not talkin about sitting around f5ing all day. But one person, given the POW heads up via email,who wouldnt give it a go.
.
.
.
.
thought so

[mammal2]

mcnuts said:

slowmo said:

Don't believe the hype! ;D I honestly believe that this print should have been a 500 run, well popular with people (don't see the attraction myself) if they had done 500 the queue would all have got one, the rest (maybe as much as 300) could have been sold online to those who can't get to London.

Small runs are all well and good, but when the popularity is there, up the numbers.

Have'nt you got a baby to look after or something!

To be honest, I'm quite amazed at the demand of this print. I thought about trying to go for the SBFO on iraqi cash but passed as the image didn't work for me. I, obviously wrongly, didn't peg these to sell out as quickly as they did. I see this run and the smaller run as day and night and can't get my head around the demand, especially paying close to 1000GBP for the bigger edition. WHere the hell does all this cash come from?

As for selling it, yes, i can see why people did wait in line. That much cash, quickly, who wouldn't? As has been said before, it all seems a bit mad and a lot like a bubble. The board also generates interest in artists and people art touting as well (the new concert tickets).

The debate has been had and rehashed, I'll just watch from the sidelines and save my cash for a banksy

But the line between tout and fan and re-seller and on-line gallery is a fine one. NOt even a fine one, a blurry one at best.

IS everyone a tout or a flipper trying to buy the next signed banksy no matter what the image in order to have banksy collateral?

You show me one person who will honestly pass up the chance to buy one as he doesnt like the image. I'm not talkin about sitting around f5ing all day. But one person, given the POW heads up via email,who wouldnt give it a go.
.
.
.
.
thought so

Have'nt you got a baby to look after or something!!

[mcnuts]

mammal2 said:

Have'nt you got a baby to look after or something!!

.... you caught me..... he's having a nap... shouldn't you be doing lesson plans

[numusic]

There's literally thousands of artists out there producing work with this sort of content and style. Guy Denning, Neate, Beejoir, Mantis.. whoever.. wether your looking for dark figurative art with a social conscience or propoganda stencil art.. just forget this board and the other forums.. and go find your own thing. Scroll through stencil revolution or for figurative art try Saatchi online.. all of the work mentioned on here you could have bought last year for a 10th of the price.. trust your instincts.. forget the herd. Give your money to the producers and artist.. cut out the suited middlemen with swanky galleries and cocktails and go direct.

www.stencilrevolution.com
www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/yourgallery/artist_profile/Guy+Denning/3686.html

[Imoy-San]

I believe the A/P's are still available.

All is not lost.

[carlito]

from the demand for this print...(I had a vain kind of belief that because it was purely a exhibition release that it would be a slow burner rather than a super fast sell out)...the speed at which a number turned up on Ebay...have to think there's a lot of lurkers on here purely for $$$ .. makes me think twice about bigging up anyone in the future...

[jonpud]

mcnuts said:

slowmo said:

You show me one person who will honestly pass up the chance to buy one as he doesnt like the image.

I hate to admit this but you do have a point here, I love Banksy's work BUT there are prints that I love more than others, I tried (Unsuccessfully) to get a copy of Grannies when released. Grannies is my least favourite print from the LA run, BUT it would have given me the chance to swop it with someone who wanted it and had a Banksy that I wanted in exchange. Not selling for profit, not really 'flipping' in the true sense of the word BUT still means I am stopping someone who really loves the image from getting it!
Yes I feel bad about it and yes many would probably look down on me for doing it but this is what the market has driven us to, there will be thousands after the next Banksy release who couldn't give 2 fucks about the art, at least I do, and in the long run 2 Banksy fans will both end up happy with a swap deal for the print they REALLY wanted!

[bobbyt23]

carlito said:

from the demand for this print...(I had a vain kind of belief that because it was purely a exhibition release that it would be a slow burner rather than a super fast sell out)...the speed at which a number turned up on Ebay...have to think there's a lot of lurkers on here purely for $$$ .. makes me think twice about bigging up anyone in the future...

I agree. But I think from chatting to people and reading what others put it is obvious who is in it for what reasons.

The key is to buy before you big something up. Then tell your friends so we can get one too. ;D ;D

[manchestermike]

yomster said:

I believe the A/P's are still available.

All is not lost.

APs are long gone

[speebe]

With this release at tlsg and the other recent upsetter WWAF/Fools Gold drop at Stolen Space the majority of people in both of the queues would have all walked away quite happy or had a better ideas of their chances of getting a print if both galleries sold the full quota of editions as stated on the websites.

If in fact all of the 15 AP'S and all 125 SBFO prints were sold on the day most or all would have come away from the found line up with what they'd set out for... but then would it create the same buzz/demand/press?

I appreciate that both galleries have their reasons for not selling the full edition but at least people wouldn't feel bitter.

All this will just create earlier queues and a bigger secondary resale market, dictating that Full Time baggers will stand a greater chance of getting these.

[bobbyt23]

jonpud said:

mcnuts said:

slowmo said:

You show me one person who will honestly pass up the chance to buy one as he doesnt like the image.

I hate to admit this but you do have a point here, I love Banksy's work BUT there are prints that I love more than others, I tried (Unsuccessfully) to get a copy of Grannies when released. Grannies is my least favourite print from the LA run, BUT it would have given me the chance to swop it with someone who wanted it and had a Banksy that I wanted in exchange. Not selling for profit, not really 'flipping' in the true sense of the word BUT still means I am stopping someone who really loves the image from getting it!
Yes I feel bad about it and yes many would probably look down on me for doing it but this is what the market has driven us to, there will be thousands after the next Banksy release who couldn't give 2 f**ks about the art, at least I do, and in the long run 2 Banksy fans will both end up happy with a swap deal for the print they REALLY wanted!

The market has driven many people to this and in this case I dont think this kind of trade is a bad thing. A straight swap where two people get the print they want is the same as them getting it in the first place. For people who joined the hunt late like me it would be the only way I could get some of the older prints I really like. Especially at the prices most are now at.

[jonpud]

I heard that TLSG had received over 1000 requests to reserve a copy of SBFO?

That is some going for a relitively new artist, I wonder how many of them wanted to frame the print and hang it in their home?

[Strange Al]

numusic said:

There's literally thousands of artists out there producing work with this sort of content and style. Guy Denning, Neate, Beejoir, Mantis.. whoever.. wether your looking for dark figurative art with a social conscience or propoganda stencil art.. just forget this board and the other forums.. and go find your own thing. Scroll through stencil revolution or for figurative art try Saatchi online.. all of the work mentioned on here you could have bought last year for a 10th of the price.. trust your instincts.. forget the herd. Give your money to the producers and artist.. cut out the suited middlemen with swanky galleries and c**ktails and go direct.

www.stencilrevolution.com
www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/yourgallery/artist_profile/Guy+Denning/3686.html

I hear you Nu, but then I won't be able to turn my one hundred pounds into six hundred over night.