[nacional]

When I was a kid it was all very clear:

A conker that was a "hundreder" was worth 10 fruit salad chews.

A 200AD was worth 2 Roy of the Rover's.

etc etc.

Things have now got a bit more complicated.

Now, I am sure my respect (it stands at zero at present) will plummet as a result of this thread and I will be insulted, hounded and scolded, mocked and "puteado" until the ends of the earth.

BUT..

What is the swap value of a banksy print. Take one of the good first ones for example.

Is it worth 3 Neates or 2 Micaleffs or 3 Beejoits and a Mantis.

It gets even more complicated when a Neate street piece gets thrown into the mix.

is it an impossible question to answer and am I being a #$%nker for asking it. (I know you will say yes to that one)

I know that it also boils down to what you like, but if you had to put a swap value on it or have something very unpleasant happen to you.

Let the replies commence...

[corblimeylimey]

Basically it'll come down to what the monetary value is, if they're not matched you may as well sell what you've got then buy what you want and pocket the change.

[slowmo]

Sell a signed banksy at your peril. Think very seriously outside the hype (yes hype) currently surrounding all these artists, Micallef, Beejoir, Neate etc etc. Outside of the forum circle of friends, how many people do you know who have ever heard of any of them (don't count the one's you introduced to people).

Then ask yourself how many people outside have heard of Banksy! If its for investment purposes, I would not move on any signed banksy. However, if it is for love of other material, like aza's quest for a 3d neate original for a christ with shopping, then fair play, swap for something that appeals to you more.

[howlinhooker]

slowmo couldnt agree more , signed banksys the dogs bo##oc##, i cant part with mine for nothing totally agree with the hype micallef/neate PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO FIND THE NEXT GOOG THING !!!!!

[nacional]

Do all agree that selling a signed Banksy would be stupid..

As for monetary value, its very difficult to tell: how much longer can it be the case that a Neate print pulls in twice or 2.5X as much as a street piece which is a one off.

And for that matter, how much is a Neate deck worth.

When does a "hyped" artist become an established one. Are Neate, Micaleff, Beejoir, Dface hyped or established??

Has Banksy topped out as far as value is concerned..how much can a print pull in...

[organics1]

slowmo said:

Sell a signed banksy at your peril. Think very seriously outside the hype (yes hype) currently surrounding all these artists, Micallef, Beejoir, Neate etc etc. Outside of the forum circle of friends, how many people do you know who have ever heard of any of them (don't count the one's you introduced to people).

Then ask yourself how many people outside have heard of Banksy! If its for investment purposes, I would not move on any signed banksy. However, if it is for love of other material, like aza's quest for a 3d neate original for a christ with shopping, then fair play, swap for something that appeals to you more.

I don't think it's just hype. People are talking about these particular artists because of the quality of their work. If their work was no good that would = no hype. Not everyone will have heard of them agreed but not everyone's heard of Banksy either. However IMO they're work will be recognised not just by the people on here and other forums but by the mass public. I think Micallef stature might grow a bit as I hear he's doing a show in LA sometime soon ;D

[carlito]

jeeeeez there's some severe cynicism starting to crop up these boards...i think there's a little more to Neate, Micallef and Beejoir than just hype

[mcnuts]

howlinhooker said:

slowmo couldnt agree more , signed banksys the dogs bo##oc##, i cant part with mine for nothing totally agree with the hype micallef/neate PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO FIND THE NEXT GOOG THING !!!!!

bring and bling on the next GOOG thing. Bring it on!

[pezlow]

carlito said:

jeeeeez there's some severe cynicism starting to crop up these boards...i think there's a little more to Neate, Micallef and Beejoir than just hype

Don't don't don't don't believe the hype

[danvnuk]

mcnuts said:

howlinhooker said:

slowmo couldnt agree more , signed banksys the dogs bo##oc##, i cant part with mine for nothing totally agree with the hype micallef/neate PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO FIND THE NEXT GOOG THING !!!!!

bing on the next GOOG thing. Bring it on!

yes BING it on!!!!!

BING me that next GOOG thing!!! BING it now!!

[carlito]

pezlow said:

carlito said:

jeeeeez there's some severe cynicism starting to crop up these boards...i think there's a little more to Neate, Micallef and Beejoir than just hype

Don't don't don't don't believe the hype

Chuck D is coming to kick all your ass's! and it will be GOOG thing ;D

[organics1]

pezlow said:

carlito said:

jeeeeez there's some severe cynicism starting to crop up these boards...i think there's a little more to Neate, Micallef and Beejoir than just hype

Don't don't don't don't believe the hype

Didn't know you were a PE fan! RUN DMC for me, Yeah boyyyy ;D

[pezlow]

No hype - one artist - Adam Neate is the great british hope for contemporary painting. The best british painter on the scene since francis bacon and david hockney this guy is going to be mega. One day his star will eclipse everyone else being spoken on these boards. No hype it's the truth

[carlito]

;D

pezlow said:

No hype - one artist - Adam Neate is the great british hope for contemporary painting. The best british painter on the scene since francis bacon and david hockney this guy is going to be mega. One day his star will eclipse everyone else being spoken on these boards. No hype it's the truth

no it's all hype..now give me yours for cost ;D


p.s. I abso-freaking-lutely agree with your sentiment Pez

[organics1]

pezlow said:

No hype - one artist - Adam Neate is the great british hope for contemporary painting. The best british painter on the scene since francis bacon and david hockney this guy is going to be mega. One day his star will eclipse everyone else being spoken on these boards. No hype it's the truth

Well said!

[iwouldfollow youanywhere]

nacional said:

And for that matter, how much is a Neate deck worth.

well you used to be able to get them on ebay BIN 95quid roughly..

didnt snap one up though..oh well

you snooze you lose etc..

[slowmo]

By hype, I don't mean people on forums. At the moment I would say Micallef is beginning to go beyond the hype and move up a little. He is being promoted as a british artist with serious support from heavyweight British organisations that should lead to him being an established artist in time to come.

Adam Neate, a great artist, great potential, but not known outside of these circles at all as yet. Hence when someone asks about how many neates for a Banksy, I would say hype comes into play a little. However, people are beginning to notice Neate outside of this forum, but he still has no more than a listing in time out at the moment. That could all change very soon and would very much be deserved.

Just trying to poitn out that none of these artists comes close to the level of recognition in terms of admiration or revulsion that Banksy has established. I believe in time Micallef and Neate will be established artists (they are to many already), but I am warning nacional that if he is in ownership of a signed banksy, and see's it as a financial tool to speculate with, he would be mad to sell it.

[alderevans2007]

howlinhooker said:

slowmo couldnt agree more , signed banksys the dogs bo##oc##, i cant part with mine for nothing totally agree with the hype micallef/neate PEOPLE JUST TRYING TO FIND THE NEXT GOOG THING !!!!!

Micalleff and Neate are far beyond 'Just hype on this board'.
If I had never heard of banksy and saw a signed print, I would think it was pretty cool. In contrast, if I saw a Micallef or Neate for the first time I would think "Wow, thats unreal, I need one now!".

Banky's stuff on the street is pure genious. It really excites me. As prints however, most of them I wouldn't want on my wall and IMO have subject to far more hype than Neate or Micallef.

all my opinion of course!

[mose]

nacional said:

When does a "hyped" artist become an established one. Are Neate, Micaleff, Beejoir, Dface hyped or established??

Banksy is barely 'established' by traditional art world terms, and with the prices being commanded for his originals you have to judge it by traditional art world terms.

Micallef appears to be on schedule to get there within the next several years(considering his shows, museum presence, rising auction house presence, etc.), Neate is showing promise but needs many more gallery shows, an auction record, and time, D*Face will come no where near, and it is ridiculous even mentioning the term established with regard to Beejoir at this point.

of course, just IMO but I do think many on this board set the bar way too low for what 'established' means. I think of the term 'established' as equal to 'blue chip stock', a title that takes a long record of proven performance in order to earn.....an established artist/blue-chipper will dip slightly in a recession or market correction but will soon rise past previous levels because the foundation/fundamentals are so strong. We can't say that about any of the current generation right now. Too much unknown. Most everyone can still vanish.

[slowmo]

Hey Alderevans, Just playing devils advocate, where did you first hear about Micallef and Adam neate?

[carlito]

who's mentioned the word established?

kinda depressed that a thread that was light hearted and about 'swapsies' has become whats the best stock investment, $$$ etc etc debate

[saltandiron]

carlito said:

who's mentioned the word established?

kinda depressed that a thread that was light hearted and about 'swapsies' has become whats the best stock investment, $$$ etc etc debate

haha, did you forget where you were for a moment?!

[mose]

carlito said:

who's mentioned the word established?

nacional said:

When does a "hyped" artist become an established one. Are Neate, Micaleff, Beejoir, Dface hyped or established??

carlito said:

kinda depressed that a thread that was light hearted and about 'swapsies' has become whats the best stock investment, $$$ etc etc debate

Sorry to let reality creep in to your light heartedness, although as you can see I didn't start it and only gave my opinion on a question that was proposed. The concept of what makes an artist established is, IMO, one that is not discussed here enough, one that many do not consider enough, and one that many will learn - the hard way.

Its always sweetness and light when it looks like the sky is the limit. Depressing is when you crash back down.

[nacional]

Wasn't my intention to turn this thread into a FT stock market report.

Just that I am swapping a signed Banksy, am very happy about swapping my signed Banksy, have no second thoughts about swapping it, but wondered what others thought.

But noone has answered my question.

We are on the playground, I am round the back of the bikeshed, stubbing out my breaktime ciggy and want to swap a signed Banksy...

Whatalyagivemeforit.....

[slowmo]

I did answer your question! If it is for financial gain, don't do it. If it is because you prefer another image, swap for the other image. Its worth what you base it to be worth and if someone swaps they agree

[alderevans2007]

slowmo said:

Hey Alderevans, Just playing devils advocate, where did you first hear about Micallef and Adam neate?

The forum Got me there! ;D Maybe I should rephrase it.

In my opinion, Neate and Micallef have the quality and depth to make a name for themselves in the "big wide" art market. Whereas other artists will get stuck in this "forum-ebay" thingy and then just fizzle out.
I think artists have to make it out of this "forum-ebay-streetscene" thingy to start commanding the real money. I'm not saying people's appreciation of street art is anything to be frowned upon, its just that the money lies outside the scene. banksy is obviously an exception.
Sorry to talk money - it bores me too ;D

[carlito]

so who stated Neate or Micallef were established?

i think for future reference that no one should get excited aboout a new artist for fear that their investments are worth nothing or until Brian Sewell and the art establishment have reassured us it's worth buying...

I always thought this whole street scene and offshoots we're now seeing develop were totally against this art establishment? I thought the whole point with street art is that they're not waiting to be recognised you can see it for yourself...

what you're saying makes sense I get it, I'm having a go at you I'm just saying everything seems to be getting boxed and pushed in that direction when in fact the 'fun' of this scene is that it's not waiting, this is art for the fans citiqued by the fans ... not by the establishment

okayyy I could well be talking bollox sorry about that

[carlito]

and to get back to the question I'd swapped a 'lessor' signed Banksy such as a Sepia for a Red Portrait by Neate

[bored with screen names]

I love Micallef, Neate, etc, but I don't think I would trade my only signed Banksy for any of their works. If I had multiple Banksys I'd probably consider it. Right now the only artist I would enthusiastically agree to trade my Banksy for another signed print 1 to 1 is Hutch!

[nacional]

Thanks Carlito.

Slowmo: sorry mate but you haven't answered my question; I don't want a conceptual answer, that doesn't work in swapsies, I want to know what you will give me for my signed early Banksy...