[Cocteau 101]

Will we ever see a painting from this genre hit this figure.

Not just a topic about money but the whole movement of the genre, artist acceptance with serious collectors, places in history etc.

As an example

[top]

Yes

[top]

Parla, Denning, Simmonds

[pagerage]

banksy. keep it spotless $1.8 million

[Photoxtc]

what Top said...

[mose]

May 4, 2008 1:47:19 GMT 1 pagerage said:

banksy. keep it spotless $1.8 million

He's gotta do it without Hirst.

[lee3]

May 4, 2008 2:41:57 GMT 1 mose said:

May 4, 2008 1:47:19 GMT 1 pagerage said:

banksy. keep it spotless $1.8 million

He's gotta do it without Hirst.

Only a matter of time with inflation; I'd guess that it happens within 30 months.

[mose]

May 4, 2008 3:11:58 GMT 1 lee3 said:

Only a matter of time with inflation; I'd guess that it happens within 30 months.

I agree, it appears quite likely at the moment. Just pointing out that the Auction RED results have a few caveats. One being Hirst, the second being the tax deductible nature of the sale, the third being the reduced buyer's premium of 10%, the fourth being no NY sales tax on the auction, and the 5th being the unique nature and media attention of this particular auction. All combined, they most definitely provided a substantial assist.

If my memory of IRS code is sound, everything above the $350k estimate for the Banksy/Hirst piece can be written off.

[Martin Whatson]

IMo that parla is better then lots of Pollock pieces.
So why not??

[Cocteau 101]

Any other examples out there.
I think Neate will get there over time, and can't make my mind up on who else.

[Rude Copper]

i think both neate & jose parla have the potential, when i bought my neate, i was reading a book 'collecting contemporary', & i thought 'is this good enough to get in the book' ,& it was, it would happily sit between koons & murakami. the same can be said about jose parla,
it really depends on if they get endorsed by a big collector, i know eric clapton, tom ford & agnes b collect parla, & i heard that a major collector has just bought adam's work, so who knows?, watch this space.............

[Martin Whatson]

but does it actually matter?

[Deleted]

May 4, 2008 10:15:59 GMT 1 Martin Whatson said:

but does it actually matter?

doesnt matter as such, but an interesting topic.

anyone know how much that huge neate was(the england fans in the pub)not sure of the actual name. if i had a millon sitting around and a big enough house, id pay a million for that.

[beasty]

I think it was 115K+VAT

[frank11]

May 4, 2008 10:35:57 GMT 1 beasty said:

I think it was 115K+VAT

Certainly was If only i had a house big enough to hang it. Plus 140k

[Cocteau 101]

No the price doesn't matter per se, I'm was more thinking from a development point of view for the artists will we see the critical acclaim that results in the £1m price tag.
I also think Faile might get there if the US market wakes up to their imagery.

[Oliver Garland]

I think Parla and Neate will in the future, but people like Denning will get left behind but still successful.

[funster]

May 4, 2008 9:59:53 GMT 1 Rude Copper said:

i think both neate & jose parla have the potential, when i bought my neate, i was reading a book 'collecting contemporary', & i thought 'is this good enough to get in the book' ,& it was, it would happily sit between koons & murakami. the same can be said about jose parla,
it really depends on if they get endorsed by a big collector, i know eric clapton, tom ford & agnes b collect parla, & i heard that a major collector has just bought adam's work, so who knows?, watch this space.............

A major collector has purchased Adams work and I'm really happy for him. IMO I certainly think that some AN work could one day be a £1m painting, I'd put Parla in that position too. Slightly off tangent though is the question of if some pieces already in the £1m category actually deserve their place there? The main thing I suppose is that someone who had the money thought it was, and thats the main thing.

[Oliver Garland]

sometimes though, making £1m isnt a reflection on how good the work is, but more politics between two extremely rich bidders who wont give in.

[Cocteau 101]

May 4, 2008 11:14:06 GMT 1 Oliver Garland said:

sometimes though, making £1m isnt a reflection on how good the work is, but more politics between two extremely rich bidders who wont give in.

I agree, but I look at some already established major work and can see why it is acclaimed and hung in museums as ground breaking, or an example of a movement and it's contemporaries and I look at Neate and Parla and think that this is quite capable of being regarded in the same way.

It is hard to to create something totally new, I wonder how you would create a new art movement today, everything is derivative and has influeneces that begin somewhere but I honestly believe both these artists have established themselves as groundbreaking. Hopefully more will follow.

[top]

May 4, 2008 10:54:42 GMT 1 Cocteau 101 said:

No the price doesn't matter per se, I'm was more thinking from a development point of view for the artists will we see the critical acclaim that results in the £1m price tag.
I also think Faile might get there if the US market wakes up to their imagery.

When America grasps this phenomenon(a lot have already!), I can only imagine we'll all have to hold onto our seats! ..agree, acclaim will surely evolve all serious artists.

[top]

There is a possibility that many artists could fall by the wayside if current 'pick them up-put them down' trends continue..that said, quality will always rise above, obviously we cannot foresee whom will rise with acclaim, but I am positive that there will be a chasm between pricing structures on the horizon with artists following critical appraisal.

That said, whom does 'judge' the works? is it based on fame and popularity,artistic skill or pertinent qualifications that result in showing work at topnotch venues?

All in my humble and ill educated opinion of course!

[funster]

I think an artists manager has almost as much to rising to the top as the art itself. We have seen over the last 12 months great artists who've been mis-managed, just in the same way as we all probably know some great bands/singers who've neevr made it either.

[skanky]

Ive always thought there is a similarity to music in this way. Parla seems to be going on tour round the world and he is reaping the benefits.

[mcnuts]

that painting will never be worth more than 19.99 sell it now why you can still make your money back. what an eye sore !! ;D

May 4, 2008 1:26:22 GMT 1 Cocteau 101 said:

Will we ever see a painting from this genre hit this figure.

Not just a topic about money but the whole movement of the genre, artist acceptance with serious collectors, places in history etc.

As an example

[Matt-lock]

^^^hands down the best parla to date IMO

[mose]

May 4, 2008 14:57:14 GMT 1 Matt-lock said:

^^^hands down the best parla to date IMO

Schematic Diagram of Cryptography is an icon, but of that style of Parla's work I prefer:


Picture taken from www.joseparla.com


which is a significantly larger piece as well(6' by 6' vs. 4' by 2' for cryptography).

Also coming close is the recent diptych from the Italy show, Writer's Line/Painters' History, which is shown on the cover. It's the type of work that you can loose yourself for years in.

Either which way, you can't go wrong or even close to wrong. Both are a joy to see, let alone own. I commend Cocteau for his vision.

[Cocteau 101]

Thanks for the comments Mose, my Parla was my example of a work I think will be seen as iconic but I agree that the large pieces in a similar style are absolutely stunning. I've also seen a picture of a very small piece similar to mine.
What other pieces (not just the artists) do people think could hit the arbitrary £1m mark.

To reiterate the thread isn't about the value in itself but the significance of the act.

[lee3]

I think you will find a lot of art that has hit your £1m threshold within 30 years not necessarily because of artistic merit but because the purchasing power of fiat currencies continues to decline over time due to inflation. 30 years in dollars has seen a 4.5 fold increase in prices if one accepts government reported statistics as truth. Pounds sterling has seen a 4 fold increase. I suspect both of those numbers are conservative but we'll accept them as fact.

So, if currencies remain on a similar tract (I would venture a guess that they will pick up speed but that is another discussion entirely), you £1m piece of artwork merely has to be trading at 1/4 of that amount today or 250,000. Regardless, I think its safe to presume Banksy will hit that mark before any of the others, unless one wishes to include the NY artists that we're doing this in the 80s as both Basquiat and Haring eclipsed that threshold a long time ago.

Sadly, there will come a day in our lifetimes where £1m will not seem like a lot of money.