[hanksy]

In case the discerning collector missed it, those 3 cardboard 'originals' from Japan are now available for of $150k each. It seems for that money you get to wait 3 months and see if you just tossed away a half a million bucks.

tinyurl.com/4dv934c

Thought the original thread about these was interesting... but this is too much.
And the crazy thing is I'm not even sure they're fake?!?

[manty]

If they were Given the all clear from PC, what value would you put on them?

They are pretty big, but if i was minted I wouldn't want to be paying more than ? :-) for them

[Baby Dave]

Theyre nice images......but i'd rather spend the money on a canvas or a few prints.

[Warm Gun]

yeah, nice images but I've never been a massive fan of stuff painted on cardboard, they always look a bit tacky in my worthless opinion. I'd much rather have a canvas and I can't see some loaded banker wanting a bit of old beaten up card on his wall.

[hanksy]

that the t-shirt is signed with the intentionally bad english: "i draw that picture"
if it is fake, it's a genius move

[Lunch Special]

^^Agreed....with 150k you could probably get a whole set of cyw's

[Brushstrokes 75]

I didn't think it was the number he put it here first if I remember correctly (it was something way more affordable!)

Problem with pieces on carboard is they don't last long (conservation wise) compared to a canvas or a print.

[manty]

is that fact or rumour on the cardboard front?

If fact, how long does cardboard last conservation wise

Mar 12, 2011 21:04:37 GMT 1 Brushstrokes 75 said:

I didn't think it was the number he put it here first if I remember correctly (it was something way more affordable!)

Problem with pieces on carboard is they don't last long (conservation wise) compared to a canvas or a print.

[gibbin82]

How could anybody think that someone would want to buy one of these with such a dodgy listing? For a start it has a buy it now of $999 yet the listing says you can not buy them at that price as it is a temporary price and you have to contact him first as he wants $150,000 each, then he wants another $3,000 for postage!!! If that is not enough to put anyone off he then goes on to say he can not confirm them as authentic, but the T-shirt proves they are? Have a look at the item description below

Banksy Painting 2003? Helicopter/ Contact Me!! (100cm x 200cm)

 

You can not bid this soon. At first, you have to contact to me.
My customer has these painting. This is a temporary price. He want to sell them at $150,000 per a painting.
Then, I can not confirm whether this is authentic, now.
But he bought them when one exhibition was held in GAS International Gallery in Tokyo on December 2003. In addition, there are a T-shirt signed by Banksy. He was received from Banksy to prove those are authentic.(But when you buy this painting, T-shirt does not belong to this.)

I'm asking to appraise it to Pest Control Office.
It seems to take several months to finish appraising.
This is a message from PCO.


 

Hi ****,

Thanks for submitting your authentication request. The T-shirt will not receive a Certificate of Authenticity as it is not a work of art by Banksy. As for the other 3 pieces we really need to show them to Banksy, please bear with us while we do this as he is extremely busy and we literally do have a mountain of authentication requests to work through.

Kind regards,

PCO

 

If you are interested in this painting, please contact me.

[Baby Dave]

I'm convinced! I'll have all three....plus if anyone can knock up a few more I'll spend another few hundred thousand on them too!

[mmmike]

lol too funny. Fake, fake, fake - IMO. Even if they were real $150,000? not even for all three.

Oh wait I just saw the t shirt, I stand corrected. There you have it they are real.

[fingerz]

maybe it's supposed to 150,000 yen ... ?

[mmmike]

i think the seller thinks they are real. if not he wouldn't be so greedy. You have to know no one is going to pay above market value for them. Poor guy probably paid good money for them.

[gibbin82]

Mar 12, 2011 22:45:36 GMT 1 mmmike said:

i think the seller thinks they are real. if not he wouldn't be so greedy. You have to know no one is going to pay above market value for them. Poor guy probably paid good money for them.

I think you are possibly right that he thinks they may be real, however by the way he talks about them belonging to a friend I think he is trying to make a quick and huge profit and if he gets somebody prepared to pay stupid money for them he will then buy them from his "friend" to sell on.

[lee3]

If those are legit and you consider what that Abe Lincoln on cardboard brought this week, it boggles the mind to think that the laugh now and happy choppers may well be fair at those prices given their age and dimensions. On the one hand it seems silly but they are quite large and 2 of the 3 are iconic for that artist. Ebay would not be my venue of choice but different strokes/different folks and nobody is paying those prices without PC saying yes anyway.

>>>Problem with pieces on carboard is they don't last long (conservation wise) compared to a canvas or a print.<<<

True, but cardboard certainly outlives us. And to be fair (again if those are legit), if those were canvases from '03 with those dimensions the prices would dwarf those numbers.

[gibbin82]

I can't really believe Banksy was showing any of his work in Japan back in 2003, in the same year as he put his first proper exhibition on in the UK and even over here he was mainly unknown to almost anybody not into street art and local authorities were busy buffing everything they could find. I know there is a thread on here claiming he did a show in 2002, but to be honest I just "do not believe it" (in my best Victor Meldrew voice )

i also Thought midway though this link might be relevant regarding any Banksys in Japan

zichi.posterous.com/british-police-arrest-trio-of-banksy-counterf

[lee3]

>>>I can't really believe Banksy was showing any of his work in Japan back in 2003,<<<

He was indeed. There are 4 or 5 canvases (liita, hw, laugh now, happy choppers, keep it real) that auctioned a couple years ago from his '02 Japan show. I've seen the photos of these 3 works on ebay previously and if I were a betting man I'd guess they are real. Either that or fakes that have been circulating in photos for ages but that's for PC to judge.

[gibbin82]

Mar 12, 2011 23:35:15 GMT 1 lee3 said:

>>>I can't really believe Banksy was showing any of his work in Japan back in 2003,<<<

He was indeed. There are 4 or 5 canvases (liita, hw, laugh now, happy choppers, keep it real) that auctioned a couple years ago from his '02 Japan show. I've seen the photos of these 3 works on ebay previously and if I were a betting man I'd guess they are real. Either that or fakes that have been circulating in photos for ages but that's for PC to judge.

If that was the case (and I have no reason to disbelieve you, but I just still find it very unlikely that the Japanese knew and were featuring somebody who was an virtual unknown to the average person in the UK that was not already into street art, but I am quite happy to be proved wrong) regarding these pieces I would have thought that any work displayed in an exhibition of a major foreign artist (well big enough to put an exhibition on) would have been a little bit grander than some stenciling on cardboard. Some canvases on eBay a couple of years ago do not really prove anymore than they are at least two years old. Any further proof of this exhibition would be interesting to see.

I can find nothing about it or any pictures in any of his books and I thought it would have been a major event for him at that stage

[Deleted]

I respect Lee's opinion as a collector, however he should know the prices for Banksy's new works are commanding higher prices, simply because of where they are being placed and to who, while his older works really haven't shot up that much. For $150K you can buy a Laugh Now on canvas - which is also a collectors preferred medium of choice. For $150K, you can certainly entertain yourself with a more desirable original piece.

Legit or not, they are not worth $150K each in my opinion.

[speebe]

I'm certain he was out there in 02/03... he had work on the street and also a collaboration show at BEAMS in Harajuku. The show was the Griffin x Banksy release of The wrong T-shirts... I was there myself and almost bought a T-shirt that was on sale.


I believe this could be genuine as I saw that show and saw Faile street pieces around that time too, and also bought Shep Fairey prints as he also had a show around that time too in the Dept store.

As for the GAS exhibition... They also had a Faile/BAST show too.



www.dex.ne.jp/gasweb/jp/japanese/200303.html

You'll also note that on their links they have banksy and faile amongst others and have put on a lot of related shows..... with BEAMS T who have sown WK Interact, Dalek etc...

I love the many of you posting are so quick to talk this listing down, but I think it's just a japanese seller with a listing that's just not written in the best english.... I bet it gets a COA too.


Also BANKSY gave LOOP, a club in Tokyo permission to use his images on their fliers around the same time... these are mine, check the dates!!

IMO it all adds up!!





And on a side note I bought a piece from a japanese seller from 03 which initially had problems with PC before they deterimned that it was genuine.

[gibbin82]

Mar 13, 2011 0:09:51 GMT 1 @speebe said:

I'm certain he was out there in 02/03... he had work on the street and also a collaboration show at BEAMS in Harajuku. The show was the Griffin x Banksy release of The wrong T-shirts... I was there myself and almost bought a T-shirt that was on sale.


I believe this could be genuine as I saw that show and saw Faile street pieces around that time too, and also bought Shep Fairey prints as he also had a show around that time too in the Dept store.

As for the GAS exhibition... They also had a Faile/BAST show too.



www.dex.ne.jp/gasweb/jp/japanese/200303.html

You'll also note that on their links they have banksy and faile amongst others and have put on a lot of related shows..... with BEAMS T who have sown WK Interact, Dalek etc...

I love the many of you posting are so quick to talk this listing down, but I think it's just a japanese seller with a listing that's just not written in the best english.... I bet it gets a COA too.


Also BANKSY gave LOOP, a club in Tokyo permission to use his images on their fliers around the same time... these are mine, check the dates!!

IMO it all adds up!!





And on a side note I bought a piece from a japanese seller from 03 which initially had problems with PC before they deterimned that it was genuine.

As said I was quite happy to be proved wrong and that is quite convincing evidence of the exhibition and that I am wrong, however I am still not convinced that these three pieces are genuine. The seller would have been much wiser to have got the coa's before trying to sell them, then there would be no doubt, unless he has already tried and been knocked back.

[lee3]

Here is a thread with a couple photos from the '02 show: urbanartassociation.com/index.cgi?board=banksy&action=display&thread=45728

Here is another piece with Japanese provenance (and is pictured behind the monkey in the first photo in the thread above). Clearly, he seemed to like cardboard at the time:

BANKSY
Untitled (Fly)
2002
spray paint on stamps on cardboard
39 1/4 x 39 1/4 inches (100cm x 100cm)
signed in spray paint lower right

Provenance:
Agnes B Shop, Japan 2002




>>the prices for Banksy's new works are commanding higher prices, simply because of where they are being placed and to who, while his older works really haven't shot up that much.<<<

I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative and concur with you on the Hopper piece. However, the recent auction results have been quite shocking to me as an onlooker. That Lincoln on cardboard left a lot to be desired to my eyes but it was worth 70k to someone and it certainly didn't have any Hopper like provenance behind it. I'm looking at an artnet run in another window and there is an old precision bombing (edition of 10) from '01 that someone splashed down 65k for and a bird with grenade from the same year that cost 110k and a recent HW for even more. As far as I'm aware none of those had any standout provenance but they still had strong pricing. I'm sure the oscar madness played a role but clearly there are buyers and tight supply so prices seem to have lifted recently regardless of who owned pieces for sale. I agree with you, I'd never pay much for a cardboard piece but someone just spent half that ask for a much smaller cardboard piece from '08 of Lincoln. Given that desirability to at least 2 people out there, I wouldn't rule out 150 as an ask for a laugh now or happy choppers from '03 that's 5X+ the size of the Lincoln. Same medium, much larger, iconic and older= strange days indeed.

[gibbin82]

Mar 13, 2011 1:55:02 GMT 1 lee3 said:

Here is a thread with a couple photos from the '02 show: urbanartassociation.com/index.cgi?board=banksy&action=display&thread=45728

Here is another piece with Japanese provenance (and is pictured behind the monkey in the first photo in the thread above). Clearly, he seemed to like cardboard at the time:

BANKSY
Untitled (Fly)
2002
spray paint on stamps on cardboard
39 1/4 x 39 1/4 inches (100cm x 100cm)
signed in spray paint lower right

Provenance:
Agnes B Shop, Japan 2002

The link to the thread 'Banksy in Japan' you posted was the same thread I mentioned earlier that I did not think was very credible, however the picture of the fly on the Monkey Queen stamps has now completely changed my opinion. As said this particular piece can be seen behind the 'Laugh Now' on cardboard (with text in Japanese) and it would be very unlikely that any forger would have reproduced this particular image, as far as I believe it was some of his earliest work, only ever seen in Bristol and not readily recognized as the usual Banksy type of work.

[lee3]

Gibbin:

I agree that fly piece is an atypical work for Banksy and appears to draw more than a little inspiration from the Warhol s&h stamp piece:



I believe these canvases may have been displayed/sold at the Agnes B. Shop as they all share Japanese provenance from the same year ('02):









Edit: I just looked a bit closer and to my naked eye the stencil on the happy chopper canvas just above with the yellow bow looks to be the same as the one on the cardboard for the ebay sale which reinforces my hunch that they are legit. Question is whether or not PC deems the cardboard pieces are the work of the artist and whether they were ever intended for sale in the first place to give a COA.