[Neate Michael]

Can you share with me any info you get.

Clearly selling through an auction house has pluses and minuses... Would be interested to see how people make a decision.

[Jonny Wednesday]

Same. I'm interested as well.

Also thoughts on selling via the forum or selling at an Auction. Always my worry about selling through here is if there are any issues or comeback. At an Auction, you are in effect anonymous to the buyer.

[marquis]

I'd be interested to hear about negotiating seller's fees: if you're selling a print with Christie's or Sotheby's (for the first time) at what expected price for the print could you have a chance of negotiating 0%? What sellers commission percentage could you get on a print that'll hammer for, say, £50 - 60k? Cheers

[sfnyc]

If you have a few prints to place then PM me I can refer you to an old school advisor that will get lower seller fees and placement in top auction houses (sothebys/christies/phillips). They re paid by the auction house for bringing in their clients so you can get much better terms than approaching auctions as a new seller.

[Love Is In The Air]

I'm definitely not an expert but happy to share my limited experience in general on here and you can PM me if you want to know anymore houseofarts.

I sold two items at auction approximately 18 months ago in two separate auctions, both at Phillips.
Was happy with the process but you obviously have less control over your return compared to a sale on here or via a gallery on commission who fix a price.

The items sold for £10-20k(one did better than expected, one a bit disappointing).
Your Banksys would sell for a lot more than my items and I managed to negotiate down to 5% commission fee on hammer price with a few polite emails so you should be looking at less than that I would have thought (maybe 3-5%?).

Like I say was happy enough and felt very safe and no chance of any comeback from buyer with condition reports etc. Money took a few weeks then dropped straight in account.

Selling at a gallery guarantees you an amount.....going to auction is probably more of a gamble but you can put in some safeguards and if you get lucky on a good day you can walk away with a packet. Good example of variation at the moment is a Flags last week sold for £44,100 and then one this week sold at auction for £35,000. Appreciate they mat be in different condition but clearly one seller did a lot better than the other.

[sondrer]

Hi, Im also considering selling an unsigned Banksy. Is it realistic to negotiate the comission fee down to 5-10% at, for instance, sothebys or christies? Ive also contemplated using a gallery or some other artbroker. Does any of you have any experience dealing with Myartbroker or Banksy-value?

[alibear]

OMGGGGGGGG Nearly fell off my seat!

[bob60]

Sept 24, 2020 14:59:47 GMT 1 alibear said:

OMGGGGGGGG Nearly fell off my seat!

Hope you are ok

Come back and join the conversation when you actually have something to say on the subject..

[alibear]

[House of Arts]

Thanks for the replies and PM's people, really helps a lot

[mrblast]

Sept 23, 2020 20:21:08 GMT 1 House of Arts said:

So I own a few unsigned Banksy's. The latest auction results have made me a bit nervous - I bought them a few years ago for 1/10th of what they seem to go for now. I might be interested to sell a few of them as they seem to represent an almost equal value as my entire house.

Can anyone, either here or in a PM, that has sold a Banksy at an auction before, tell me a bit about the process of doing so? Like how did you pick the auction house, what steps did you go through after deciding where you were going to sell them, does an auction house guide you through the process, etc, etc. 

I have only sold a few low value items before so I don't really have a clue. Also I don't live in the UK so I'm a bit worried about transport etc. Any help or stories are much appreciated. And if there already is a topic on this I apologize in advance.

I'd also be interested in any info that people are willing to share.

My prints are in the UK but I live outside of the UK.

Thanks in advance

[jp]

Here is a tip for any of you who want to sell at an international auction. Do *NOT* let the auction house or your local bank perform the currency transfer. You will get screwed hard on the exchange rate. Instead, set up an account ahead of time with transferwise.com or a similar site that does currency conversion at a fraction of the price. Currency conversion is basically a hidden fee, and they charge anywhere from 2-5% of your total auction earnings. It's a massive amount when you are talking about the prices that Banksy prints sell for. I learned this lesson the hard way. Don't make this mistake. Or just sell with an auction house in your home country.

[bernie]

A friend of mine got in touch with one of the bigger auction houses and they said
they would want 25% of the sales price.
This seems way to excessive .
Would anyone know if this is the norm.

[Deleted]

Sept 28, 2020 10:15:11 GMT 1 bernie said:

A friend of mine got in touch with one of the bigger auction houses and they said
they would want 25% of the sales price.
This seems way to excessive .
Would anyone know if this is the norm.

Should be downwards of 10% for sellers

25% plus the extras is the buyers fees

[Lazarus II]

Sept 28, 2020 10:15:11 GMT 1 bernie said:

A friend of mine got in touch with one of the bigger auction houses and they said
they would want 25% of the sales price.
This seems way to excessive .
Would anyone know if this is the norm.

your friend may be confusing sellers premium and buyers premium. Buyers premium will be circa 25% of hammer price. Sellers premium will be 10% or probably less depending on what you are selling etc.

[Love Is In The Air]

No one should be giving up more than 5% commission when selling Banksys at the moment IMHO. You are the one with the asset they want in their auction. They make their money from the fees etc added to the hammer price. As Bren says should be downwards of 10% but I really think if you haggle you will get 5% or even less, don't accept first offer you get.

[Deleted]

Sept 24, 2020 14:21:31 GMT 1 sondrer said:

Hi, Im also considering selling an unsigned Banksy. Is it realistic to negotiate the comission fee down to 5-10% at, for instance, sothebys or christies? Ive also contemplated using a gallery or some other artbroker. Does any of you have any experience dealing with Myartbroker or Banksy-value?

10% is the standard for Christies, and I believe Sothebys. When I sold my Banksy last year I negotiated Christies down to 8%. I'm sure a good negotiator could do better on a very valuable Banksy, although I imagine there are quite a lot of people approaching them to sell at the moment.

I have no experience of other auction houses, but if I ever sell again I would always go for one of these two. The process is smooth, you know they have immense experience and they're very easy to deal with. The professionalism is first rate and I always felt like my print and my money were safe with them. When you're talking this amount of money, it's so important to have complete trust in the auction house. Christies gave me an option of several different auctions and recommended I wait for the Banksy-only one to achieve the best price. They never pressured me to sell. In fact, I think the time between initial approach and eventual sale was 18 months.

I approached My Art Broker before approaching Christies. Wasn't massively impressed. The person I spoke to was nice, but I didn't feel hugely confident in the process. The price they suggested they could achieve was less than half of what the print sold for at auction. They actually contacted me after the auction to see if my print was still for sale. I also spoke to Hang Up and wasn't keen on them. I felt very much like their goal was to sell as quickly as possible to secure their commission. There was no advice or discussion, just a price.

[Love Is In The Air]

Apologies WhatILike clearly has more knowledge/experience than me.....I got 5% from Phillips without much bargaining so presumed that was possible at others....agree Christies or Sothebys is probably the way to go, perhaps 5-8% might be best you can get but I deffo wouldn't just settle for 10%.

[sondrer]

Thank you @whatilike for your insight!
Its great to hear about your approach and experience selling. Especialley since Im completely inexperienced in dealing with auction houses myself

[Deleted]

Sept 28, 2020 11:31:14 GMT 1 Love Is In The Air said:

Apologies WhatILike clearly has more knowledge/experience than me.....I got 5% from Phillips without much bargaining so presumed that was possible at others....agree Christies or Sothebys is probably the way to go, perhaps 5-8% might be best you can get but I deffo wouldn't just settle for 10%.

It may well be possible to negotiate Christies/Sothebys down lower. I genuinely don't know. I'm far from a skilled negotiator. 

[Shoeless]

I realize this discussion has been had before, but I was hoping to have opinions gathered for reference. It seems to be up for debate and may be helpful considering the market is constantly moving.

Banksy-value.com has been a good guide on current auction results but how does that reflect private sale pricing?

We are all aware that consignment with auction houses have various fees applied to the sale. Sellers fees of roughly 5-10%. Buyers fees reaching 34%. And then the hammer prices.

I have seen the following regarding fair private sale asking prices:
-Average hammer price.
-Average amount that buyer actually pays (hammer+fees).
-Average hammer price minus ~10% seller fee
-Somewhere in the middle of what buyer actually pays and what seller actually receives

I do understand that a seller can ask whatever they’d like and it may or may not sell. It would be nice to see others thoughts on this.

[teabaggins]

Oct 27, 2020 19:05:33 GMT 1 Shoeless said:

I realize this discussion has been had before, but I was hoping to have opinions gathered for reference. It seems to be up for debate and may be helpful considering the market is constantly moving.

Banksy-value.com has been a good guide on current auction results but how does that reflect private sale pricing?

We are all aware that consignment with auction houses have various fees applied to the sale. Sellers fees of roughly 5-10%. Buyers fees reaching 34%. And then the hammer prices.

I have seen the following regarding fair private sale asking prices:
-Average hammer price.
-Average amount that buyer actually pays (hammer+fees).
-Average hammer price minus ~10% seller fee
-Somewhere in the middle of what buyer actually pays and what seller actually receives

I do understand that a seller can ask whatever they’d like and it may or may not sell. It would be nice to see others thoughts on this.

The answer to this will always depend on if it is the buyer the or seller that is answering unfortunately. 

[Red Barron]

I’ve always thought auction results thrown out on here should mention:

1) Hammer - estimated seller fees (understanding these can be negotiated)
2) Hammer + all buyers fees

So a 100k print with 5% seller fee and 35% buyer fee would be shown as 95k Seller / 135k Buyer.

Private sales would likely happen somewhere between those two prices depending on demand, price direction, how much the lottery paid out that week, etc. Of course the middle price point would be 115k or roughly 15% lower than the “all in” price.

[RoboJ]

Ultimately it’s what you’re prepared to pay verses what you’re prepared to accept. Fees and percentages from auctions are irrelevant. The seller had no say in what they were paid but there’s the advantage of having attention on your sale. Personally I wouldnt sell at auction unless I wanted the piece of mind of the auction house dealing with the hand over/finances. If you’re a buyer of course try and get a good deal and only pay what you’re comfortable with. If you’re a seller it’s irrelevant what people tell you it’s worth. You have to sell for what feels right to you and if nobody buys it that tells you where you’re at.

[funyoung]

There should be a certain surety by buying through an auction house - your money is safe, they've done due diligence that it's not a fake, you'll actually get a print etc - that you don't get when buying in a motorway services for cash.

The auction house is adding value therefore so I'd expect to pay more there than I would privately when buying (and can see the reduced value if I'm selling)

[alibear]

The bigger issue with all auction houses is that in the UK they all have to add 20% VAT to anything that is sold, significantly increasing the price.

A private sale between 2 people does not requite VAT to be paid (unless you are a private dealer with a registered business buying and selling art)

[Dive Jedi]

Oct 28, 2020 10:47:41 GMT 1 alibear said:

The bigger issue with all auction houses is that in the UK they all have to add 20% VAT to anything that is sold, significantly increasing the price.

A private sale between 2 people does not requite VAT to be paid (unless you are a private dealer with a registered business buying and selling art)

They only have to add VAT to the Buyers Premium. Not to the price of the item itself.

Hammer 1000
BP 25% = 250
VAT 20% = 50
Total for buyer : 1300

So the VAT only adds 5% to the total.

A private sale does not include BP or VAT, so there is a 30% difference there.

In general BP is considered part of the value of the piece (although opinions differ here)
so a private sale of the example above might be 1100 - 1200....

There could be 4% ARR to be paid to the artist as well,

but that is generally not determined as value to the piece.

[RoboJ]

Oct 28, 2020 11:00:00 GMT 1 Dive Jedi said:

Oct 28, 2020 10:47:41 GMT 1 alibear said:

The bigger issue with all auction houses is that in the UK they all have to add 20% VAT to anything that is sold, significantly increasing the price.

A private sale between 2 people does not requite VAT to be paid (unless you are a private dealer with a registered business buying and selling art)

They only have to add VAT to the Buyers Premium. Not to the price of the item itself.

Hammer 1000
BP 25% = 250
VAT 20% = 50
Total for buyer : 1300

So the VAT only adds 5% to the total.

A private sale does not include BP or VAT, so there is a 30% difference there.

In general BP is considered part of the value of the piece (although opinions differ here)
so a private sale of the example above might be 1100 - 1200....

There could be 4% ARR to be paid to the artist as well,

but that is generally not determined as value to the piece.

The value is what ever the buyer agreed to pay. It’s irrelevant if they bought at an auction or privately. The thing to bare in mind if you’re a buyer looking for a deal is that an auction price is the highest value people in the room thought the item was on that given day. With this in mind buying privately you should be able to get a little cheaper based on not everyone at the auction felt the item was worth that much. The Caveat being if there’s an upward trend then the next time an auction comes around the people in the room will have raised their value of the item and so the prices will be higher. Hope this makes sense

[Dive Jedi]

Oct 28, 2020 11:23:19 GMT 1 RoboJ said:

Oct 28, 2020 11:00:00 GMT 1 Dive Jedi said:

They only have to add VAT to the Buyers Premium. Not to the price of the item itself.

Hammer 1000
BP 25% = 250
VAT 20% = 50
Total for buyer : 1300

So the VAT only adds 5% to the total.

A private sale does not include BP or VAT, so there is a 30% difference there.

In general BP is considered part of the value of the piece (although opinions differ here)
so a private sale of the example above might be 1100 - 1200....

There could be 4% ARR to be paid to the artist as well,

but that is generally not determined as value to the piece.

The value is what ever the buyer agreed to pay. It’s irrelevant if they bought at an auction or privately. The thing to bare in mind if you’re a buyer looking for a deal is that an auction price is the highest value people in the room thought the item was on that given day. With this in mind buying privately you should be able to get a little cheaper based on not everyone at the auction felt the item was worth that much. The Caveat being if there’s an upward trend then the next time an auction comes around the people in the room will have raised their value of the item and so the prices will be higher. Hope this makes sense

You could also argue the conscensus was that the item wasn't worth more then the hammer + fees.

My point is that the total price at auction is a good indication of an items value.
But have sold multiple items at (online) auction it can vary a lot.
I have sold exact same items for 120 that went for 500 the next week. Or vice versa......

[Dubman]

Does anyone have any experience of buying from non UK Auction houses like Bukowskis or Heritage for example.

What are the taxes, carriage and insurance liabilities?

Is it worth the extra hassle and does anyone have good / bad insight or experiences

Feels like a faff.