moleman
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,866
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March 2008
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obey question , by moleman on Dec 26, 2008 17:38:03 GMT 1, hi all a bit political for boxing day
Obey obama print hope etc one of the biggest images of the year in america for what ever reason ie image or cost.
Other great obey images are the anti oil companies, wars and my personal favourite the new world order one with the hand with the eye over the world saying hostile take over.
The obey poster is pro obama, but check out a few youtube posts about obama and you get clips of him saying new world order alot, repeating bush etc alot and basically not saying alot different to bush much.
Know im not looking for political answers i dont follow it much especially america polotics.
So what does obey think to this ie being so behind the man that is saying lets do some more of what obey was against.
If you cant find the links feel free to ask ill soon find them and while your there look at msg, aspartame and flouride
hi all a bit political for boxing day
Obey obama print hope etc one of the biggest images of the year in america for what ever reason ie image or cost.
Other great obey images are the anti oil companies, wars and my personal favourite the new world order one with the hand with the eye over the world saying hostile take over.
The obey poster is pro obama, but check out a few youtube posts about obama and you get clips of him saying new world order alot, repeating bush etc alot and basically not saying alot different to bush much.
Know im not looking for political answers i dont follow it much especially america polotics.
So what does obey think to this ie being so behind the man that is saying lets do some more of what obey was against.
If you cant find the links feel free to ask ill soon find them and while your there look at msg, aspartame and flouride
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obey question , by snausages on Dec 26, 2008 19:47:40 GMT 1, His New World Order is a lot like the old one. Obama has appointed a "new" cabinet that features a number of faces recycled from both the Bush and Clinton administration. People don't seem to care so much about details like that. They just want to think happy thoughts and repeat mantras like 'Hope' and 'Change' and forget that it's just more of the sameโwell, with a slightly different twist, that's all.
His New World Order is a lot like the old one. Obama has appointed a "new" cabinet that features a number of faces recycled from both the Bush and Clinton administration. People don't seem to care so much about details like that. They just want to think happy thoughts and repeat mantras like 'Hope' and 'Change' and forget that it's just more of the sameโwell, with a slightly different twist, that's all.
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Francis
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,571
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September 2007
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obey question , by Francis on Dec 26, 2008 21:39:30 GMT 1, You can't just be against everything. Here's what he said:
โPeople like to categorizeโit makes for better posturingโand not to engage. They say โOh, if voting made a difference then it would be illegal,โ but someone like Obama can infiltrate the system. A government, like capitalism, can be ethical. If I only criticize but donโt try and get a candidate into the system then I have no justification. I have an opportunity to help change the system.โ
You can't just be against everything. Here's what he said:
โPeople like to categorizeโit makes for better posturingโand not to engage. They say โOh, if voting made a difference then it would be illegal,โ but someone like Obama can infiltrate the system. A government, like capitalism, can be ethical. If I only criticize but donโt try and get a candidate into the system then I have no justification. I have an opportunity to help change the system.โ
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obey question , by snausages on Dec 26, 2008 21:53:24 GMT 1, So is that supposed to mean that he's beyond criticism? Obama isn't infiltrating any "system." Obama is part of it. Anyway you already said this at least once ...and it's not even your own words.
Symbolically Obama's election is important, but realistically speaking...
So is that supposed to mean that he's beyond criticism? Obama isn't infiltrating any "system." Obama is part of it. Anyway you already said this at least once ...and it's not even your own words.
Symbolically Obama's election is important, but realistically speaking...
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origo
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,973
๐๐ป 512
April 2008
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obey question , by origo on Dec 26, 2008 22:01:48 GMT 1, Only time will tell the differences and changes he will make, they will come for sure. After all he is a democrat unlike Bush.
To being with he wantยดs to pull out of Iraq, that is one huge change if he manages to do so in a reasonable amount of time.
The true character of a leader truly shows when he meets challenges, Obama has a very big challenge ahead of him and thatยดs the economy, if he can get it back on track he has already come a long way.
Only time will tell the differences and changes he will make, they will come for sure. After all he is a democrat unlike Bush.
To being with he wantยดs to pull out of Iraq, that is one huge change if he manages to do so in a reasonable amount of time.
The true character of a leader truly shows when he meets challenges, Obama has a very big challenge ahead of him and thatยดs the economy, if he can get it back on track he has already come a long way.
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barry cilit
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 298
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March 2007
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obey question , by barry cilit on Dec 26, 2008 22:10:06 GMT 1, Bush - Clinton - Bush - Obama
Bad guy - Nice guy - Bad Guy - Nice Guy
republican - democrat.... putting the nice guy in charge makes people feel there will be a difference from the bad guy and then when nothing seems to happen the bad guy comes along to take over. a 5 year period is NOTHING in terms of the progress of the new world order!
the men behind the curtain know what they are doing and they are thinking in decades!!!
wether or not Fairy does is another question.
Bush - Clinton - Bush - Obama
Bad guy - Nice guy - Bad Guy - Nice Guy
republican - democrat.... putting the nice guy in charge makes people feel there will be a difference from the bad guy and then when nothing seems to happen the bad guy comes along to take over. a 5 year period is NOTHING in terms of the progress of the new world order!
the men behind the curtain know what they are doing and they are thinking in decades!!!
wether or not Fairy does is another question.
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raiden
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 512
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April 2008
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obey question , by raiden on Dec 26, 2008 22:36:06 GMT 1, What the hell are you all talking about???
Do any of you have half a brain to realize the difference between the United States under Bush versus the United States of 8 years ago???
We now run a torture camp which we placed in Cuba so we can skirt the Geneva convention! Say what you will about CIA covert ops during the Reagan and Bush I administrations, the US has never so blatantly flaunted international human rights to the point of loosing all credibility on human rights matters world wide!
That's a major change.
Secondly, the US is at war and currently occupying two nations, one with not a shred of legitimate reason - I don't see an Obama administration being a warhawk President who will rush to war.
That's a major change.
Thirdly, graft and corruption in the US has increased precipitously... The list here is soooo long, and all because of the Bush administration and its policies, that I won't begin to list them - suffice to say, this was largely due to the politicization of the US Executive Branch and gross abuse in dispensing jobs for political contributions -- a policy that Obama has steered far clear from, to the point of appointing political rivals.
That's a major change.
THE UNITED STATES IS A MESS!!! Who do YOU think Obama should nominate for his cabinet? Yes he's appointed ex-Clinton administration officials - these people are some of the most competent people out there and <<GASP>>> many are by and large diametrically opposed to the policies of Bush and have said so vocally in the media for 8 years.
This idea that appointing executive branch members who served in the Clinton administration A DECADE AGO equals business as usual is ridiculous... and may I say, A LOT has happened in that decade. Might I remind you, Clinton was generally a progressive reformer after the gross excesses of 12 years of Reagan and Bush, when we heard many of the same things we're hearing now about the long-term viability of the US economy. (Albeit W fucked things up way, way worse)
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY...
CALM THE FUCK DOWN ABOUT OBAMA.... The man hasn't had any authority as President yet and already everyone is complaining he hasn't brought enough change?!? WTF... Trust the man a little.
As for Shepard, we talked about Obama a couple times, and there really wasn't much to say.... It boils down to this - Obama was a relatively political outsider candidate who spelled the biggest shift away from the Neo-Conservativism of Bush of any viable candidate. Furthermore, ideologically, he's far more akin to classic progressive liberals on policy after policy than Clinton, who was a centrist DLC moderate - albeit, both appear almost equal distant to the left because our nation swung so far to the right...
I think Obama IS Change because he's pretty diametrically opposed to the majority of Bush's policy positions.
Shep, myself, others all supported him because we wanted the farthest thing from Bush (that was offered and viable) and Obama is an extremely motivating orator. (not to mention the many policy positions we stand lock step on)
What the hell are you all talking about???
Do any of you have half a brain to realize the difference between the United States under Bush versus the United States of 8 years ago???
We now run a torture camp which we placed in Cuba so we can skirt the Geneva convention! Say what you will about CIA covert ops during the Reagan and Bush I administrations, the US has never so blatantly flaunted international human rights to the point of loosing all credibility on human rights matters world wide!
That's a major change.
Secondly, the US is at war and currently occupying two nations, one with not a shred of legitimate reason - I don't see an Obama administration being a warhawk President who will rush to war.
That's a major change.
Thirdly, graft and corruption in the US has increased precipitously... The list here is soooo long, and all because of the Bush administration and its policies, that I won't begin to list them - suffice to say, this was largely due to the politicization of the US Executive Branch and gross abuse in dispensing jobs for political contributions -- a policy that Obama has steered far clear from, to the point of appointing political rivals.
That's a major change.
THE UNITED STATES IS A MESS!!! Who do YOU think Obama should nominate for his cabinet? Yes he's appointed ex-Clinton administration officials - these people are some of the most competent people out there and <<GASP>>> many are by and large diametrically opposed to the policies of Bush and have said so vocally in the media for 8 years.
This idea that appointing executive branch members who served in the Clinton administration A DECADE AGO equals business as usual is ridiculous... and may I say, A LOT has happened in that decade. Might I remind you, Clinton was generally a progressive reformer after the gross excesses of 12 years of Reagan and Bush, when we heard many of the same things we're hearing now about the long-term viability of the US economy. (Albeit W fucked things up way, way worse)
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY...
CALM THE FUCK DOWN ABOUT OBAMA.... The man hasn't had any authority as President yet and already everyone is complaining he hasn't brought enough change?!? WTF... Trust the man a little.
As for Shepard, we talked about Obama a couple times, and there really wasn't much to say.... It boils down to this - Obama was a relatively political outsider candidate who spelled the biggest shift away from the Neo-Conservativism of Bush of any viable candidate. Furthermore, ideologically, he's far more akin to classic progressive liberals on policy after policy than Clinton, who was a centrist DLC moderate - albeit, both appear almost equal distant to the left because our nation swung so far to the right...
I think Obama IS Change because he's pretty diametrically opposed to the majority of Bush's policy positions.
Shep, myself, others all supported him because we wanted the farthest thing from Bush (that was offered and viable) and Obama is an extremely motivating orator. (not to mention the many policy positions we stand lock step on)
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moleman
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,866
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March 2008
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obey question , by moleman on Dec 26, 2008 23:18:17 GMT 1, All i can say is there is alot about it on the tube ill dig some up. If you think bush fucked it up and obama will fix it all your very wrong. It may just be a way to get you to trust his judgement as president as he cant be as bad as bush. Im sure there is a clip where they take what bush said and obama says the same things. I realise that this was going to tread on toes over the pond but please keep your views friendly its a family show. And please take 10 mins to look at this stuff to see where i am coming from before you sound out in anger about how wrong i am. Links to follow
All i can say is there is alot about it on the tube ill dig some up. If you think bush fucked it up and obama will fix it all your very wrong. It may just be a way to get you to trust his judgement as president as he cant be as bad as bush. Im sure there is a clip where they take what bush said and obama says the same things. I realise that this was going to tread on toes over the pond but please keep your views friendly its a family show. And please take 10 mins to look at this stuff to see where i am coming from before you sound out in anger about how wrong i am. Links to follow
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moleman
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,866
๐๐ป 0
March 2008
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obey question , by snausages on Dec 26, 2008 23:46:14 GMT 1, What the hell are you all talking about??? Do any of you have half a brain to realize the difference between the United States under Bush versus the United States of 8 years ago???
Wow man, thanks for explaining everything for me!
So of course I know Obama is a democrat Bush is a republican yes I know. Your diatribe was wonderful and I'll agree that personally I think Obama will be better than Bush and I agree we should follow the geneva conventions etc.
My problem is that Obama is clearly a politician, he's a normal human being, he is at times hypocritical, like all politicians. But sure I think he'll be better than Bush, Hallelujah!
But, quote "CALM THE f**k DOWN ABOUT OBAMA" jeez man, you're the one typing in all caps and using expletives in every paragraph. This is the kind of fanaticism about Obama that worries me, you say a single thing about this guy that isn't praising him and you get a reign of terror unleashed upon you by his fanatics. You also get people talking things like "Obama can infiltrate the system." It's ridiculous pseudo revolutionary posturing that's making it out to be more of game than real politics.
The guy is a politician, plain and simple, and I think it's very fair to criticize a person who is elected based on his marketing campaign of "change" who then selects a cabinet that are 50%+ Bush and Clinton veterans. I think it speaks volumes about how much change we should realistically expect. And I also think it's very fair and a slight bit funny of moleman to point out Obama speaking of a "new world order." If a republican said this and or selected a cabinet completely unlike the theme he was elected upon, you people would tear him apart. We will get change, sure, but let's just keep it real.
What the hell are you all talking about??? Do any of you have half a brain to realize the difference between the United States under Bush versus the United States of 8 years ago??? Wow man, thanks for explaining everything for me! So of course I know Obama is a democrat Bush is a republican yes I know. Your diatribe was wonderful and I'll agree that personally I think Obama will be better than Bush and I agree we should follow the geneva conventions etc. My problem is that Obama is clearly a politician, he's a normal human being, he is at times hypocritical, like all politicians. But sure I think he'll be better than Bush, Hallelujah! But, quote "CALM THE f**k DOWN ABOUT OBAMA" jeez man, you're the one typing in all caps and using expletives in every paragraph. This is the kind of fanaticism about Obama that worries me, you say a single thing about this guy that isn't praising him and you get a reign of terror unleashed upon you by his fanatics. You also get people talking things like "Obama can infiltrate the system." It's ridiculous pseudo revolutionary posturing that's making it out to be more of game than real politics. The guy is a politician, plain and simple, and I think it's very fair to criticize a person who is elected based on his marketing campaign of "change" who then selects a cabinet that are 50%+ Bush and Clinton veterans. I think it speaks volumes about how much change we should realistically expect. And I also think it's very fair and a slight bit funny of moleman to point out Obama speaking of a "new world order." If a republican said this and or selected a cabinet completely unlike the theme he was elected upon, you people would tear him apart. We will get change, sure, but let's just keep it real. |
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obey question , by leumasdarnley on Dec 26, 2008 23:49:22 GMT 1, IMO Shepard should stick to art just because he made a print that helped Obama doesn't mean s**t other than he's an artist. This whole thing has really gone to his head and he's speaking like anyone cares....
from his site:
"StopโฆObama Time! Stopโฆ intolerance!
Tomorrow my illustration for Time Magazineโs โPerson of The Yearโ hits the newsstands. While Iโm very honored to be validated by a periodical that is nothing short of an American institution, the moment is bittersweet because Iโm very disappointed by Obamaโs appointment of Rick Warren to deliver his invocation during Obamaโs inaugural address. Rick Warren is against gay marriage and reproductive rights, and he does not believe in evolution (maybe he offers himself as proof of lack of evolution). I understand that Obama is trying to appeal to conservatives and evangelicals, but this move is symbolically a slap in the face to many people. Warren is not a uniter, but a dividerโฆ he is intolerant in many of his views. I still think Obama is the best choice for president, but I canโt condone Warrenโs involvement in Obamaโs inauguration, no matter how insignificant it is. While Iโm on the subject of gay marriage, I will be donating a chunk of the proceeds from an inauguration poster of Obama I was asked to create to the movement to overturn Prop 8. At first I was considering pulling my inauguration poster, but I think re-directing funds from it to put into a cause I care about is actually more constructive. Plus, I wouldnโt want withdrawing the image to come across as a blanket boycott of Obama. Iโm sure I will ultimately disagree with Obama about many things, but I think I will agree with him on more. I think it is important to speak oneโs mind, but also to not let the narcissism of petty differences sabotage our unity and progress.
-Shepard"
wtf isn't this the guy that breaks laws to hang his art and got started making stickers of andre the giant.....
IMO Shepard should stick to art just because he made a print that helped Obama doesn't mean s**t other than he's an artist. This whole thing has really gone to his head and he's speaking like anyone cares....
from his site:
"StopโฆObama Time! Stopโฆ intolerance!
Tomorrow my illustration for Time Magazineโs โPerson of The Yearโ hits the newsstands. While Iโm very honored to be validated by a periodical that is nothing short of an American institution, the moment is bittersweet because Iโm very disappointed by Obamaโs appointment of Rick Warren to deliver his invocation during Obamaโs inaugural address. Rick Warren is against gay marriage and reproductive rights, and he does not believe in evolution (maybe he offers himself as proof of lack of evolution). I understand that Obama is trying to appeal to conservatives and evangelicals, but this move is symbolically a slap in the face to many people. Warren is not a uniter, but a dividerโฆ he is intolerant in many of his views. I still think Obama is the best choice for president, but I canโt condone Warrenโs involvement in Obamaโs inauguration, no matter how insignificant it is. While Iโm on the subject of gay marriage, I will be donating a chunk of the proceeds from an inauguration poster of Obama I was asked to create to the movement to overturn Prop 8. At first I was considering pulling my inauguration poster, but I think re-directing funds from it to put into a cause I care about is actually more constructive. Plus, I wouldnโt want withdrawing the image to come across as a blanket boycott of Obama. Iโm sure I will ultimately disagree with Obama about many things, but I think I will agree with him on more. I think it is important to speak oneโs mind, but also to not let the narcissism of petty differences sabotage our unity and progress.
-Shepard"
wtf isn't this the guy that breaks laws to hang his art and got started making stickers of andre the giant.....
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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obey question , by Deleted on Dec 26, 2008 23:55:54 GMT 1, IMO Shepard should stick to art just because he made a print that helped Obama doesn't mean s**t other than he's an artist. This whole thing has really gone to his head and he's speaking like anyone cares.... from his site: "StopโฆObama Time! Stopโฆ intolerance! Tomorrow my illustration for Time Magazineโs โPerson of The Yearโ hits the newsstands. While Iโm very honored to be validated by a periodical that is nothing short of an American institution, the moment is bittersweet because Iโm very disappointed by Obamaโs appointment of Rick Warren to deliver his invocation during Obamaโs inaugural address. Rick Warren is against gay marriage and reproductive rights, and he does not believe in evolution (maybe he offers himself as proof of lack of evolution). I understand that Obama is trying to appeal to conservatives and evangelicals, but this move is symbolically a slap in the face to many people. Warren is not a uniter, but a dividerโฆ he is intolerant in many of his views. I still think Obama is the best choice for president, but I canโt condone Warrenโs involvement in Obamaโs inauguration, no matter how insignificant it is. While Iโm on the subject of gay marriage, I will be donating a chunk of the proceeds from an inauguration poster of Obama I was asked to create to the movement to overturn Prop 8. At first I was considering pulling my inauguration poster, but I think re-directing funds from it to put into a cause I care about is actually more constructive. Plus, I wouldnโt want withdrawing the image to come across as a blanket boycott of Obama. Iโm sure I will ultimately disagree with Obama about many things, but I think I will agree with him on more. I think it is important to speak oneโs mind, but also to not let the narcissism of petty differences sabotage our unity and progress.-Shepard" wtf isn't this the guy that breaks laws to hang his art and got started making stickers of andre the giant.....
The guy does not believe in Evolution... Someone should say something, why not Shep.
IMO Shepard should stick to art just because he made a print that helped Obama doesn't mean s**t other than he's an artist. This whole thing has really gone to his head and he's speaking like anyone cares.... from his site: "StopโฆObama Time! Stopโฆ intolerance! Tomorrow my illustration for Time Magazineโs โPerson of The Yearโ hits the newsstands. While Iโm very honored to be validated by a periodical that is nothing short of an American institution, the moment is bittersweet because Iโm very disappointed by Obamaโs appointment of Rick Warren to deliver his invocation during Obamaโs inaugural address. Rick Warren is against gay marriage and reproductive rights, and he does not believe in evolution (maybe he offers himself as proof of lack of evolution). I understand that Obama is trying to appeal to conservatives and evangelicals, but this move is symbolically a slap in the face to many people. Warren is not a uniter, but a dividerโฆ he is intolerant in many of his views. I still think Obama is the best choice for president, but I canโt condone Warrenโs involvement in Obamaโs inauguration, no matter how insignificant it is. While Iโm on the subject of gay marriage, I will be donating a chunk of the proceeds from an inauguration poster of Obama I was asked to create to the movement to overturn Prop 8. At first I was considering pulling my inauguration poster, but I think re-directing funds from it to put into a cause I care about is actually more constructive. Plus, I wouldnโt want withdrawing the image to come across as a blanket boycott of Obama. Iโm sure I will ultimately disagree with Obama about many things, but I think I will agree with him on more. I think it is important to speak oneโs mind, but also to not let the narcissism of petty differences sabotage our unity and progress.-Shepard" wtf isn't this the guy that breaks laws to hang his art and got started making stickers of andre the giant..... The guy does not believe in Evolution... Someone should say something, why not Shep. |
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moleman
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,866
๐๐ป 0
March 2008
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obey question , by snausages on Dec 27, 2008 0:01:56 GMT 1, The guy does not believe in Evolution... Someone should say something, why not Shep.
It's just that it's a bit patronizing, preachy and implies a overinflated sense of self worth imo.
The guy does not believe in Evolution... Someone should say something, why not Shep. It's just that it's a bit patronizing, preachy and implies a overinflated sense of self worth imo. |
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moleman
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,866
๐๐ป 0
March 2008
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moleman
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,866
๐๐ป 0
March 2008
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obey question , by moleman on Dec 27, 2008 0:39:42 GMT 1, Check out council of foriegn relations and its members you will find they include
bush, chainey,rockafeller,clintons and obamas
both parties are the same thing controled by a higher power
Check out council of foriegn relations and its members you will find they include
bush, chainey,rockafeller,clintons and obamas
both parties are the same thing controled by a higher power
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raiden
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 512
๐๐ป 3
April 2008
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obey question , by raiden on Dec 27, 2008 0:44:23 GMT 1, First, Shep is a statement artist who has always been vaguely political. Albeit "Andre the Giant Had a Posse" was less political than what evolved into, it still was a vaguely skate culture critique of consumer society, the idea of popular followings, and a subversive statement of what it is to get behind something.
Fast forward to recent era, and Shep embraces a politician that at the moment was probably polling 8th in general election polling - not to mention was a black man who was always anti-Iraq war and talked against corruption and restoring power to the people. Hardly the most "establishment" decision - it just ended up working out that Barack went from dark horse candidate with 1/5th the money of Hillary and no name recognition outside of Illinois and political junkies like me, to being President.
leumasdarnley... shame on your statement about "IMO Shepard should stick to art just because he made a print that helped Obama doesn't mean s**t other than he's an artist. This whole thing has really gone to his head and he's speaking like anyone cares...."
As an artist, I expect you to make statements, particularly as a street artist. I salute Shep's genuine desire to use his art and the money he makes from it to advance progressive political causes he feels strongly about.
But what you're also wrong about leumasdarnley, is that Shep has been political for years. That's the nature of his art - long before his "Obama Hope" image.
Now as for real change....
Moleman, you're video is a ridiculous amalgamation of mainline conspiracist clap trap that draws non-sequitur conclusions based upon dubious use of evidence taken out of context - for example citing a 10th string Obama economic adviser as a member of "Skull and Bones" and then drawing the comparison that Bush was Skull and Bones... get over it. Yes, skull and bones is a secret organization, but its pretty much a glorified Yale fraternity that hand picks the best and brightest of Yale for its membership. It doesn't have an extremely cohesive New World Order plan that your video seems to suggest.
Suddenly clipping in scenes of "Silence of the Lambs" into the video? What is this? Some sort of crude use of "Soviet Montage Theory"? What a laughable piece of propaganda.
Frankly, its just drawing non-existent links between David Icke-level conspiracy theories with zero evidence to link Obama to any of the policy positions being discussed - but using crude montage to somehow draw a link.
Finally... snausages... you raise a lot of good points. Totally agree... Obama is a politicians - and might I add a very brilliant one and very good one (you don't get to where he is at 47 if you're not!)
I personally do not think Obama's cabinent singles there won't be big changes - or even less change than I anticipated. But I will say that in the desperate times the US is in, there has been a tendency to look to almost a Messianic figure and expect all things from him. If someone has gotten to that level of fanaticism from him, well then they'll be disappointed... but, like you point out, that's bound to happen with any politician. Even Bush's radical pro-Life supporters are probably disappointed he didn't do more.
Similarly, in some areas, I concede Obama has an uphill battle bringing sweeping change - namely I think he may fail on healthcare in his first term. But on energy, every indication is that Obama will bring more change than we expected. Same on drug control policy. Verdict is out on Iraq.... I can go down the list of issues...
As for his cabinet, I don't think appointing former Clinton administration appointments at all hurts change - especially when you consider their capabilities and the fact that many of the appointees Obama is selecting were every bit more liberal than Bill was and probably were stymied from going much further by his distinctly more moderate tilt than Obama's.
Amazingly, Obama is in fact the first true liberal who has been elected President in my lifetime. That alone is a significant change.
First, Shep is a statement artist who has always been vaguely political. Albeit "Andre the Giant Had a Posse" was less political than what evolved into, it still was a vaguely skate culture critique of consumer society, the idea of popular followings, and a subversive statement of what it is to get behind something.
Fast forward to recent era, and Shep embraces a politician that at the moment was probably polling 8th in general election polling - not to mention was a black man who was always anti-Iraq war and talked against corruption and restoring power to the people. Hardly the most "establishment" decision - it just ended up working out that Barack went from dark horse candidate with 1/5th the money of Hillary and no name recognition outside of Illinois and political junkies like me, to being President.
leumasdarnley... shame on your statement about "IMO Shepard should stick to art just because he made a print that helped Obama doesn't mean s**t other than he's an artist. This whole thing has really gone to his head and he's speaking like anyone cares...."
As an artist, I expect you to make statements, particularly as a street artist. I salute Shep's genuine desire to use his art and the money he makes from it to advance progressive political causes he feels strongly about.
But what you're also wrong about leumasdarnley, is that Shep has been political for years. That's the nature of his art - long before his "Obama Hope" image.
Now as for real change....
Moleman, you're video is a ridiculous amalgamation of mainline conspiracist clap trap that draws non-sequitur conclusions based upon dubious use of evidence taken out of context - for example citing a 10th string Obama economic adviser as a member of "Skull and Bones" and then drawing the comparison that Bush was Skull and Bones... get over it. Yes, skull and bones is a secret organization, but its pretty much a glorified Yale fraternity that hand picks the best and brightest of Yale for its membership. It doesn't have an extremely cohesive New World Order plan that your video seems to suggest.
Suddenly clipping in scenes of "Silence of the Lambs" into the video? What is this? Some sort of crude use of "Soviet Montage Theory"? What a laughable piece of propaganda.
Frankly, its just drawing non-existent links between David Icke-level conspiracy theories with zero evidence to link Obama to any of the policy positions being discussed - but using crude montage to somehow draw a link.
Finally... snausages... you raise a lot of good points. Totally agree... Obama is a politicians - and might I add a very brilliant one and very good one (you don't get to where he is at 47 if you're not!)
I personally do not think Obama's cabinent singles there won't be big changes - or even less change than I anticipated. But I will say that in the desperate times the US is in, there has been a tendency to look to almost a Messianic figure and expect all things from him. If someone has gotten to that level of fanaticism from him, well then they'll be disappointed... but, like you point out, that's bound to happen with any politician. Even Bush's radical pro-Life supporters are probably disappointed he didn't do more.
Similarly, in some areas, I concede Obama has an uphill battle bringing sweeping change - namely I think he may fail on healthcare in his first term. But on energy, every indication is that Obama will bring more change than we expected. Same on drug control policy. Verdict is out on Iraq.... I can go down the list of issues...
As for his cabinet, I don't think appointing former Clinton administration appointments at all hurts change - especially when you consider their capabilities and the fact that many of the appointees Obama is selecting were every bit more liberal than Bill was and probably were stymied from going much further by his distinctly more moderate tilt than Obama's.
Amazingly, Obama is in fact the first true liberal who has been elected President in my lifetime. That alone is a significant change.
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obey question , by melmoth on Dec 27, 2008 1:04:18 GMT 1, I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of everyone's arguments here, but let's just say that I'm more in line with Raiden's viewpoint than some of the others stated here.
Yes, there will be some similarities between snippets of speech between Obama and Bush. However, you could do this with any two diametrically opposed people who have made public speeches, and to imply that Obama is some form of Bush-redux is absurd.
In terms of the statements on his appointments, I would say that Obama has so far appointed competent people to his cabinet, and ones who actually have relevant experience. Scientists responsible for science related issues! Whoever would have thought it? Obama is not appointing people based on nepotism, cronyism, if they happen to be on his Christmas card list, or have a good working knowledge of horses.
Fairey laid out his support at a time where it was not the popular thing to do. His support has not been universally uncritical, as evidenced by his response to Warren being asked to the inauguration. And the thought that this is his first political activity, or his involvement has been expedient or advantageous for him to do so, is patently ridiculous.
I have far more problems with Fairey raising his prices and not fixing his server than I do with anything to do with Obama. 
I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of everyone's arguments here, but let's just say that I'm more in line with Raiden's viewpoint than some of the others stated here. Yes, there will be some similarities between snippets of speech between Obama and Bush. However, you could do this with any two diametrically opposed people who have made public speeches, and to imply that Obama is some form of Bush-redux is absurd. In terms of the statements on his appointments, I would say that Obama has so far appointed competent people to his cabinet, and ones who actually have relevant experience. Scientists responsible for science related issues! Whoever would have thought it? Obama is not appointing people based on nepotism, cronyism, if they happen to be on his Christmas card list, or have a good working knowledge of horses. Fairey laid out his support at a time where it was not the popular thing to do. His support has not been universally uncritical, as evidenced by his response to Warren being asked to the inauguration. And the thought that this is his first political activity, or his involvement has been expedient or advantageous for him to do so, is patently ridiculous. I have far more problems with Fairey raising his prices and not fixing his server than I do with anything to do with Obama. |
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moleman
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,866
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March 2008
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obey question , by moleman on Dec 27, 2008 1:05:49 GMT 1, Anti iraq was but pro iran check the second film. It may all be bull who knows alot of conspiracy stuff comes true ( check john lindon). And i think the silence of the lambs is to do with sheeple all people following each other. Im not saying its my view its just interesting to bring other views to small minded people
Anti iraq was but pro iran check the second film. It may all be bull who knows alot of conspiracy stuff comes true ( check john lindon). And i think the silence of the lambs is to do with sheeple all people following each other. Im not saying its my view its just interesting to bring other views to small minded people
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etched
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,302
๐๐ป 72
February 2008
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obey question , by etched on Dec 27, 2008 1:31:57 GMT 1, uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3bZzM4s0Hgs
santo gold and kanye east are doing a cover for shep
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obey question , by leumasdarnley on Dec 27, 2008 4:41:01 GMT 1, Shame on me? Raiden why do you choose to prove everyone wrong rather than let people have there opinions. Just because Shep does political art doesn't mean he is a politician. I have followed shep for a few years I am aware of his art but sometimes when you have the stage (Shepard) you need to know when to pick your battles. Obama isn't even in office yet... shep just got cover of time Obama got elected but its not enough. Your scary dude turn the tv off stop reading political chat boards and relax. If someone believes the sky is red it's their believe its called tolerance deal with it. What got me most is that he says "our unity and progress" then speaks of narcissism. "our" meaning who America or Shepard or people who think like Shepard. The thing is maybe Shepard meant everything he said in the best of ways but when you start making statements like this with a huge audience it's not always going to come off well. And to my point its cool to be political and to stand for things but IMO in moderation otherwise your the angry guy. I think he's going to turn a lot of people off but that's his choice.
Shame on me? Raiden why do you choose to prove everyone wrong rather than let people have there opinions. Just because Shep does political art doesn't mean he is a politician. I have followed shep for a few years I am aware of his art but sometimes when you have the stage (Shepard) you need to know when to pick your battles. Obama isn't even in office yet... shep just got cover of time Obama got elected but its not enough. Your scary dude turn the tv off stop reading political chat boards and relax. If someone believes the sky is red it's their believe its called tolerance deal with it. What got me most is that he says "our unity and progress" then speaks of narcissism. "our" meaning who America or Shepard or people who think like Shepard. The thing is maybe Shepard meant everything he said in the best of ways but when you start making statements like this with a huge audience it's not always going to come off well. And to my point its cool to be political and to stand for things but IMO in moderation otherwise your the angry guy. I think he's going to turn a lot of people off but that's his choice.
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