[bonesy]

So some fading behind a mount may occur after a long period of time. How long I do not know. With float mounting that will at least be fairly even.

Never thought about it this way but Im sure I'll be laying in bed pondering this tonight.... Thanks Harvey

[curiousgeorge]

Museum glass is not ALWAYS the best option (depending on manufacturer) some brands museum glass offer less uv protection than conservation products!

[manty]

Not at all to do with this threads OP and the seller, but I just wanted to put my little tilt on the whole framing thing

A picture tends to look much better in a frame than not, if a picture needs to be reframed it must be very rare that it cant be done because of it previous framing, so in truth will look fine

I dont really get the point in these framing comments, though I have always arranged my framing properly in case I do decide to sell, and the purchaser would rather not have the print in the frame, but in a portfolio sleeve.

Its almost like any old print i.e warhol etc must now be worthless because its in a frame and I guess wouldnt have had all the much talked about conservation bits, but yet they do sell rather well, why is that?

I dont think any pics sold at auction are devalued because they are framed, and who knows how they have been done? and do the buyers honestly give a shit?

I do think its all rather anal.

[curiousgeorge]

Read condition reports from prints of the era you mention, and might understand why the industry/craft has changed so much

To me buying framed is buying blind, I've read so many times on here "but i told the framer it was worth a lot and i wanted conservation quality"

[manty]

I agree with condition reports, but most prints/ pics sold at auction are framed, so no-one really has any idea how it was done. Condition reports usually refer to the print inside the frame being creased rippled etc, which you can see visually, but they dont go into whats holding the print in place, and I dont suppose anyone would know if the print has glue stuck to the back of it due to being reframed unless they in turn decide to remove it from the frame, in which case it will just go in another, so no harm done

its surely the front thats important ?


I am probably the only person that sees it this way, so happy to be swayed.

[curiousgeorge]

If it was all about the front we would all be using gaffer tape?

I've no shame in saying i don't want products/methods used on my art that will (worst case) reduce the value by 50%

[mookie]

If it is truly framed to conservation standard then the frame will do just that... conserve the print. Quite often prints that are kept in folios under the bed do get damaged through movement, finger marks, darts from taking the print in and out of the sleeve etc. I suspect a lot of folios used are just the cheap ones that do not protect the art properly. Personally I use selwyns sleeves as they work really well.

When you inspect the print just open up the frame and take a look at the print before handing over any cash. I've not seen a frame that you can't just remove the back to inspect. Also check out the framer that did the print and ask for an invoice for the frame to see what materials were used. I really don't see how buying a framed print is buying blind.

[curiousgeorge]

How do you pop the back off when buying on ebay for example?

Just read 1st post again just to confirm it was about things that can happen when buying blind..

[mookie]

I should add that I would never buy a framed picture if I could not collect. If they don't let you open it up then I would suspect something is up.

[manty]

Jan 26, 2010 22:11:05 GMT 1 curiousgeorge said:

If it was all about the front we would all be using gaffer tape?

I've no shame in saying i don't want products/methods used on my art that will (worst case) reduce the value by 50%

yeah ok, you got me on that one ;D

[monkeyart]

This thread is bonkers, why do framers ever feel the need to drymount prints to mounts I recently contacted John jones because of someones advice on here in the restorers thread, I said my silkscreen has a few little waves nothing major what would you recommend? - They said we can sort it out by drymounting to 'a' material, why do they recommend it?

[etched]

generic answer - should you go in and explain value etc i doubt they would recommend drymounting

[etched]

100% archival - no tapes used !!

[monkeyart]

Etched, I did mention it was the second ever signed print..therefore worth ? Thats what they said? Why, if I didn't know it shouldn't be done, why did they recommend it?
Have a mail if you want it?

[etched]

Jan 26, 2010 23:22:13 GMT 1 @monkeyart said:

Etched, I did mention it was the second ever signed print..therefore worth ? Thats what they said? Why, if I didn't know it shouldn't be done, why did they recommend it?
Have a mail if you want it?

i reckon the tea lady/receptionist answers the mail - no framer with any cop-on would recommend this - unless they are a tat framer

[etched]

in my experience you have to deal with the framer him/herself - direct line and not through sales staff etc or this could happen easily


ok, roll film--- - monkeyart pops to framers to get his high value and cherished beauty EVAN HECOX 'black sun' framed - hes annoyed at the ripple in the the print and mentions this to sales staff - sales staff know drymounting but never actually drymounted anything - sales staff fills out worksheet order and both are happy - framer gets docket and does what it says on the docket - ripple gone . .. . . .. ..

[Guest]

Jan 26, 2010 23:17:31 GMT 1 etched said:

100% archival - no tapes used !!

keep it simple, always works the best.

[manty]

Jan 26, 2010 23:51:46 GMT 1 @ronhill said:

Jan 26, 2010 23:17:31 GMT 1 etched said:

100% archival - no tapes used !!

keep it simple, always works the best.

Agreed, and saves a lot of fucking about.

[monkeyart]

Jan 26, 2010 23:45:40 GMT 1 etched said:

in my experience you have to deal with the framer him/herself - direct line and not through sales staff etc or this could happen easily


ok, roll film--- - monkeyart pops to framers to get his high value and cherished beauty EVAN HECOX 'black sun' framed - hes annoyed at the ripple in the the print and mentions this to sales staff - sales staff know drymounting but never actually drymounted anything - sales staff fills out worksheet order and both are happy - framer gets docket and does what it says on the docket - ripple gone . .. . . .. ..

Nice scene..seems alot of effort for a non fictional quote...now can I say he made this up? Ok the true story is I own a few old signed banksys and my HAND is a bit rippled as I had it framed badly and asked JJ what they could do, they said drympount. why ?? Etched I expect your an emplyee, I've got the email if you wish... I don't own a hecox, can I ask why I??

[monkeyart]

Jan 27, 2010 0:29:21 GMT 1 @monkeyart said:

Jan 26, 2010 23:45:40 GMT 1 etched said:

in my experience you have to deal with the framer him/herself - direct line and not through sales staff etc or this could happen easily


ok, roll film--- - monkeyart pops to framers to get his high value and cherished beauty EVAN HECOX 'black sun' framed - hes annoyed at the ripple in the the print and mentions this to sales staff - sales staff know drymounting but never actually drymounted anything - sales staff fills out worksheet order and both are happy - framer gets docket and does what it says on the docket - ripple gone . .. . . .. ..

No I know need too I will kick hiss arsse...t**t!


Nice scene..seems alot of effort for a non fictional quote...now can I say he made this up? Ok the true story is I own a few old signed banksys and my HAND is a bit rippled as I had it framed badly and asked JJ what they could do, they said drympount. why ?? Etched I expect your an emplyee, I've got the email if you wish... I don't own a hecox, can I ask why I??

[etched]

of course i made that scenario up - "ma" is the customer - "evan hecox" is the art - my point was that we should talk to the framer personally to make sure we are getting what we want....

[monkeyart]

I would never use JJ, they wanted to drymount my 03 HAND because it had small ripple I have 09 proof if you need it etched? Be nice to know why?

[tomega]

Sorry to hear about the print but hopefully paper restorer (not sure I’d trust the framer who initially did it) can remove adhesive safely.

Agree with Manty in that in the 60/70s when such iconic art being produced the people buying pop art prints weren’t having them framed to the standard talked about here (museum quality etc). And as Manty pointed out hasn’t affected their prices. An undamaged Wharhol/Blake print sells very well despite non-archival framing methods.

I don’t have much money which means I can’t afford to go to framers. I have bought cheap new frames (B&Q, Ikea etc) along with second-hand frames from car boot sales. Sometimes these frames have a mount sometimes not which isn’t a big deal as I am happy for a print to be pressed against glass. If use a mount I never use tape/glue as I simply put another layer (paper or card) over back of print so that when I fasten the backboard into place it is a tight enough fit to hold the print in place. I realise that in using such basic and cheap framing methods that in 50yrs time my prints may suffer some fading and if removed from frame have some areas of discoloration but that’s in the future and by then I’ll be too old to care, my daughter may not even want them and they may not even have much of a resale value anyway. So, in terms of having the prints on my wall to enjoy as works of art then this target has been met despite my framing methods.

[rosstierney]

Jan 27, 2010 1:41:05 GMT 1 tomega said:

Sometimes these frames have a mount sometimes not which isn’t a big deal as I am happy for a print to be pressed against glass.

i can understand everything but this. please, no