[chuppy]

Man.. That is wild. Makes sense that I’ve been offered works of Raghav Babbar, Albert Willem and Duncan McCormick by Maddox!

[chuppy]

Apr 20, 2024 13:56:08 GMT 1 LJCal said:

Apr 20, 2024 13:41:44 GMT 1 Acme Thunderer said:

How cute that they must be sharing the same web designer.

It gets more interesting if you start looking at who is behind some of the galleries representing these people. Guys named for fraud and money laundering in the panama papers, members of the family sent to jail for fraud, but still billionaires. 

[compound]

It’s nice to see this all coming to light. Hopefully keep this thread alive.
Just be careful what you buy from ‘Contemporary Discovery’ and the like auctions. Although, it’ll stop now as there’s a few of the galleries on here.

[artearte]

Apr 20, 2024 14:40:19 GMT 1 LJCal said:

Apr 20, 2024 10:37:20 GMT 1 Pawel said:

 I guess the idea is to sell and buy a fee works at auction for inflated prices ie 150k. The works are your own or your friends so you're only down auction fees and taxes.
You hope that the trend will catch up. Prices are so high, I've heard Gagosian will represent him.

At the same  time you sell 30-40 works for a bargain 50k apiece.
After a while everyone sees no show or gallery rep is gonna happen and prices dive.

Basically yes, but multiply that number sold by 10x - 50x. Do the maths, say a thousand sold at £40,000 each (pay the artist say a few grand each), that's about £37m gross profit. Say you put £4 million of sales over 20-30 lots at auction over 3-4 year period, so £100-250k a lot. That's about £1 million in premiums, call it £2 million with all costs to be generous. Basically £35m to split between the financiers and galleries/dealers pumping and selling work. Tens of millions can be made on each artist for the galleries and the people funding it. 

to me this look like a scam by Maddox and few other gallery and auction private sales 

and I think is a case to be reported

The ask you to signed 2 year not resell contract 
and in 2 years works are lest than 90% what you paid 

[artearte]

Oct 23, 2024 12:20:33 GMT 1 chuppy said:

Apr 20, 2024 13:56:08 GMT 1 LJCal said:

It gets more interesting if you start looking at who is behind some of the galleries representing these people. Guys named for fraud and money laundering in the panama papers, members of the family sent to jail for fraud, but still billionaires. 

Can you give me the name of the person ?

[Pawel]

[cemltz]

As I mentioned, I like his work, but he was the first artist I really looked at and said "wait a minute, this makes no sense..."

Primary works selling at $50K (with two year no resale) and auctioning at 3-4x that...it was right there in front of your face.

I walked.

[artearte]

Is this company ??

WATERHOUSE & DODD LIMITED
Company number 02241117


1 Insolvency case

Case number 1 — Corporate voluntary arrangement (CVA)

Date of meeting to approve CVA
19 December 2019
Date of completion or termination of CVA
5 February 2024
Practitioner
Asher Miller
David Rubin & Partners, Pearl Assurance House, 319 Ballards Lane, London, N12 8LY
Practitioner
David Rubin
Pearl Assurance House 319 Ballards Lane, London, N12 8LY

[artearte]

I bet you next one going from £400k to 10k is
Raghav BABBAR

[cemltz]

I believe W&D were one of, of not the main primary representatives for the artist. They are who I went through.

[LJCal]

Oct 23, 2024 9:44:19 GMT 1 kfroms said:

Oct 23, 2024 7:23:02 GMT 1 emurugne said:

I actually bought a Willem's painting to Maddox end of 2023 for £50k...what do you suggest to do ? are they any other buyer in my situation ? maybe we can file a group complain ?

What do you want to achieve with a 'group complain'?
Legally there is very little, if anything, to argue here.

That's simply not true. 

[LJCal]

Oct 23, 2024 7:23:02 GMT 1 emurugne said:

I actually bought a Willem's painting to Maddox end of 2023 for £50k...what do you suggest to do ? are they any other buyer in my situation ? maybe we can file a group complain ?

I think the chances of actually getting your money back is slim but you likely have some recourse depending on the circumstances of the sale. Even if some kind of group civil claim succeeded the gallery would likely declare insolvency. 

If the gallery made reference to the high auction results, or in anyway missold the work, in the first instance I would make a complaint and ask for a full refund. If this was not forthcoming, I would be looking to involve Trading Standards and the Police, most galleries now are also required to register with HMRC for money laundering purposes, I would report any misselling or suspected fraud to HMRC who will likely revoke their AMP status if proven, meaning they won't be able to sell works over €10,000. The "responsible person" for AML purposes is required to pass the fit and proper person test, any involvement with fraudulent sales or other misselling will mean they will likely fail this test, this will lead to a revocation of their AMP status.

Obviously I don't know who sold you the work and on what basis so it will need to be investigated, they may be perfectly innocent. What's not up for debate is that this is one massive fraud, it's just a question of if the galleries selling these works were involved in the market manipulation and were part of the general conspiracy, or merely acted as brokers completely independent from the criminal element.

If everyone just accepts it without at least reporting to the relevant authorities this type of nonsense will long continue. If the companies involved truly did nothing wrong then I suspect they will be more than happy to assist the relevant authorities to demonstrate that fact. 

Here are some useful links if you're complaint is not dealt with to your satisfaction:
You file complaints to Trading Standards via the Citizens Advice Bureau:
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/cymraeg/consumer/get-more-help/report-to-trading-standards/
I would report suspected fraud to the SFO in the first instance due to the complexity, they may refer you to action fraud:
www.sfo.gov.uk/contact-us/reporting-serious-fraud-bribery-corruption/
www.actionfraud.police.uk
You can report issues around AMPs to HMRC here, it's done under the report tax fraud service however this does allow you to make reports relating to AMPs:
www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud

[LJCal]

Oct 23, 2024 20:42:54 GMT 1 artearte said:

Oct 23, 2024 12:20:33 GMT 1 chuppy said:

Can you give me the name of the person ?

Yeah fuck it, this has got the Nahmad family's grubby finger prints all over. I can't prove it but Joseph Nahmad represents Babbar and it has their MO, they're seriously shady c**t. That's who my money is on. 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Nahmad
itsartlaw.org/2013/04/21/helly-nahmad-heir-of-controversial-art-dealing-dynasty-indicted-in-international-gambling-and-money-laundering-scheme/

[chuppy]

Oct 23, 2024 23:10:44 GMT 1 LJCal said:

Oct 23, 2024 20:42:54 GMT 1 artearte said:

Can you give me the name of the person ?

Yeah fuck it, this has got the Nahmad family's grubby finger prints all over. I can't prove it but Joseph Nahmad represents Babbar and it has their MO, they're seriously shady c**t. That's who my money is on. 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_Nahmad
itsartlaw.org/2013/04/21/helly-nahmad-heir-of-controversial-art-dealing-dynasty-indicted-in-international-gambling-and-money-laundering-scheme/

Diving into this with more interest here… there is an obvious link between Nahmad Projects, Waterhouse & Dodd and Maddox Gallery.  

So Maddox are selling the likes of Raghav, Willems, Duncans and others as an investment in volume.. using the name of W&D and Nahmad as a front and vice versa - there is clearly some form of agreement there.  It’s actually wild how far this has gone…. Would love to know how many works they have sold and what’s going to happen after the non-resale period expires.. Man that’s gunna be tough 

[loui]

What a pathetic bunch of dickheads with all their money and the sick urge to surround themselves with celebrities. How sad can you be

[Pawel]

Oct 24, 2024 7:48:19 GMT 1 loui said:

What a pathetic bunch of dickheads with all their money and the sick urge to surround themselves with celebrities. How sad can you be

[loui]

Oct 24, 2024 8:10:57 GMT 1 Pawel said:

Oct 24, 2024 7:48:19 GMT 1 loui said:

What a pathetic bunch of dickheads with all their money and the sick urge to surround themselves with celebrities. How sad can you be

Yes I thought you were involved. It’s your name that’s pleaing against you. Or wasnt that what you meant to say ? 😁

[kfroms]

Oct 23, 2024 22:25:30 GMT 1 LJCal said:

Oct 23, 2024 9:44:19 GMT 1 kfroms said:

What do you want to achieve with a 'group complain'?
Legally there is very little, if anything, to argue here.

That's simply not true. 

Fair enough. Let me rephrase: good luck & lots of stamina to get a legal grip on this. 

[LJCal]

Oct 24, 2024 16:38:43 GMT 1 kfroms said:

Oct 23, 2024 22:25:30 GMT 1 LJCal said:

That's simply not true. 

Fair enough. Let me rephrase: good luck & lots of stamina to get a legal grip on this. 

I agree you will neet to put in lots of work but if you've lost £50-100k it's worth expending some energy. Two things: the sooner people do this the better their chances, secondly the squeeky wheel gets oil, so be a pain and you may get some of your money back. So yes luck is also involved and as I said the chances of getting any money back is slim, but I think from a moral perspective people should report what's gone on. 

[Happy Shopper]

Oct 23, 2024 7:23:02 GMT 1 emurugne said:

I actually bought a Willem's painting to Maddox end of 2023 for £50k...what do you suggest to do ? are they any other buyer in my situation ? maybe we can file a group complain ?

I guess you would have to prove that the gallery who sold the painting, or someone with a link to the gallery, were artificially forcing prices up at auction. And this was a conspiracy to defraud.

[Eton Groover]

I hope the £50k painting has a moderately amusing title

[from mjolnir]

Oct 23, 2024 10:22:37 GMT 1 artearte said:

vm.tiktok.com/ZGdRyCvBd/

Not to dox myself but this was my video, I based it on this forum discussion actually because it seemed crazy that this was happening and no one was talking more widely about it.  So anyway, should thank you guys for bringing it up first

[LJCal]

Oct 24, 2024 17:39:49 GMT 1 Eton Groover said:

I hope the £50k painting has a moderately amusing title

Bent over and fucked up the ass is an appropriate title 😂

[Patrick 01]

Oct 24, 2024 20:12:30 GMT 1 from mjolnir said:

Oct 23, 2024 10:22:37 GMT 1 artearte said:

vm.tiktok.com/ZGdRyCvBd/

Not to dox myself but this was my video, I based it on this forum discussion actually because it seemed crazy that this was happening and no one was talking more widely about it.  So anyway, should thank you guys for bringing it up first

Some great content on your account!

[met]

Oct 24, 2024 17:39:49 GMT 1 Eton Groover said:

I hope the £50k painting has a moderately amusing title

In fairness to Albert Willem, he has come up with some good names for his paintings.



Among my favourites was a diptych, each side individually titled:


Left panel
Credulous speculator looking to get rich quick insists that due diligence is a waste of time

Right panel
Speculator avoids mirrors and gets angry at the world after being conned

[the answer is 42]

Here’s one of Willem’s pieces coming up for sale at Phillips in HK.


bilder kostenlos ohne anmeldung

www.phillips.com/detail/albert-willem/HK090324/19