[LJCal]

Feb 14, 2024 20:13:03 GMT 1 artlike said:

Feb 14, 2024 18:52:39 GMT 1 nobokov said:

It's a funny thing with timed editions. You can release a picture of a turd as a timed edition which would result in very few people buying it, and those buying it would be happy thinking that they have rare artwork. But at the same time the people who didn't buy it would be happy that they didn't spend money on a picture of a turd.

I think if you buy it because you like it and want to enjoy it on your wall, then whatever the image you probably would want the lowest edition possible all else considered. Or you just wouldn't care about the edition size.


That's the problem with you people, all you think about when you see releases is "can I make money on it? ". Which is why there's a lot of bitterness around. As you've all been destroyed in the last couple of years and it's only getting worse. 

Really? Ive loved the last couple of years, you actually have to use your brain and and your eyes and there's bargains to be had. For building a collection opportunities like this come round once every 15 or so years. 

[Acme Thunderer]

Interesting insight from LJCal.

I wonder how many dibond panels Heni have stored in their vault? There must be 1,000’s that they are charging people for. They even have the audacity to charge a release fee when you have been paying them $15 per month.

leviathan.heni.com/heni-vault/

[stendhal]

To me, the problem with these is not edition size (whatever you think it is high or low). It is the accumulation of edition sizes, year after year vs. what we could call « artistic growth ». By this I mean his level of new major works brought to the world by the artist. For Hirst, artistic growth has been very low over the last few years. If you think that this is the basis of the value of his editions, clearly there are too much of them. When an artist only lives on low level of risk and numerous poor level editions, he becomes nothing more than a decorator

[High Contrast]

Feb 16, 2024 5:08:34 GMT 1 LJCal said:

Feb 14, 2024 20:13:03 GMT 1 artlike said:

I think if you buy it because you like it and want to enjoy it on your wall, then whatever the image you probably would want the lowest edition possible all else considered. Or you just wouldn't care about the edition size.


That's the problem with you people, all you think about when you see releases is "can I make money on it? ". Which is why there's a lot of bitterness around. As you've all been destroyed in the last couple of years and it's only getting worse. 

Really? Ive loved the last couple of years, you actually have to use your brain and and your eyes and there's bargains to be had. For building a collection opportunities like this come round once every 15 or so years. 

I agree. My collection has surpassed what I ever thought it would be over the last couple years and that is 100% to do with the weak market. Pick your battles, avoid the hype and don't get caught up in punting new releases that you don't intend on keeping is my advice. 

[Wendero]

the money under the mattress suffers  the heat and inflation

[artenthusiast241]

LJ cal. You say cherry blossoms will settle at 8k but others will be at below cost. Why do you think that? Ultimately if the aesthetic is nice then value will increase. And the asset bubble has popped so buyers this time are people who are hanging not speculation. Empresses was a speculation.

[Londown 01]

Feb 16, 2024 22:24:21 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

Ultimately if the aesthetic is nice then value will increase.

You call yourself "artenthusiast" and talk about "nice" aesthetics: 

please enlighten us about WHAT exactly is appealing, innovative, exciting, invigorating or intellectually challenging about the Garden paintings. 

[LJCal]

Feb 16, 2024 22:24:21 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

LJ cal. You say cherry blossoms will settle at 8k but others will be at below cost. Why do you think that? Ultimately if the aesthetic is nice then value will increase. And the asset bubble has popped so buyers this time are people who are hanging not speculation. Empresses was a speculation.

I think that because I know that, I see who is buying and who is selling, I also see the data including a lot of private sales. I can assure you the bulk of these have been bought by speculators as with the majority of his timed releases. Aesthetic is one of many factors, there's plenty of great decorative art that sells for pennies in the pound on the secondary market. Whether the aesthetic is even nice is another debate, I'd say most of his dibonds can only really be described as garish, even kitsch, these new ones in particular. I think if an unknown artist put out some of these works people would quite rightly not touch them with a ten foot barge pole. I think if many people ask themselves honestly if they'd buy/hang these works if it didn't have Hirst's signature on the back, most probably wouldn't. The only exception is perhaps the Virtues but hence why they are selling at a premium, basically every dibond he's done since the NHS rainbow and heart (with the exception of Virtues) has been hot garbage. 

[artenthusiast241]

You still haven’t answered the question. Anyone can look at the “data” and focus on the “what is”. We all know virtues did well but the key question is why? Fundamentally it is still doing well because there is demand for cherry blossoms because of the aesthetic. Everyone here is bashing me on this point but it is true. If someone likes the way an artwork looks and it is endorsed by damien hirst then the value appreciates. It’s that simple. Unless you can give me another reason why virtues is holding well, then I’ll struggle to deviate from this rationale.

Then the second question is how well will the secrets do on secondary. Time will tell and the debate will be settled in due course but my belief is that the “aesthetic” will be appreciated more than the failed drops such as land meets sea, empresses etc. it may not be as desirable as virtues but certainly desirable enough to be above $3.5k.

[Londown 01]

Feb 17, 2024 9:06:41 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

the key question is why?

Alright, so you've joined this forum just recently and the only thing that you talk about is how HENI/Hirst releases are a good investment. 

WHAT exactly is your agenda? What are you trying to accomplish? 

[LJCal]

Feb 17, 2024 9:06:41 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

You still haven’t answered the question. Anyone can look at the “data” and focus on the “what is”. We all know virtues did well but the key question is why? Fundamentally it is still doing well because there is demand for cherry blossoms because of the aesthetic. Everyone here is bashing me on this point but it is true. If someone likes the way an artwork looks and it is endorsed by damien hirst then the value appreciates. It’s that simple. Unless you can give me another reason why virtues is holding well, then I’ll struggle to deviate from this rationale.

Then the second question is how well will the secrets do on secondary. Time will tell and the debate will be settled in due course but my belief is that the “aesthetic” will be appreciated more than the failed drops such as land meets sea, empresses etc. it may not be as desirable as virtues but certainly desirable enough to be above $3.5k.

I sense some bias in your argument. As I said there is far more to the performance of an artwork than the aesthetic, in the case of the Blossoms it was also timing, they were released right at the peak of COVID madness and prior to Hirst taking a giant shit on his market, this allowed them to build up momentum and get some strong auction results which set pricing, but even these have been impacted by over supply of his releases generally and a softening market. I’ve watched them pretty much halve in value in under a year. If the Virtues were released today it would be a very different story. As for the latest release I’d be happy to wager a £1000 in 1 year the auction price for these will be +/- 10% of cost and hammer price will be around -10/30% of cost, with private sale sitting somewhere in that range. 

[artenthusiast241]

Looks like first prints are being listed

www.artsy.net/artwork/damien-hirst-h14-7-selflessness-from-the-secrets

I contacted the gallery and £7,500 is the official list price with offers from international buyers made and declined at £5,000. Not quite 2x but +40% pre delivery is not a bad indication.

I hate to say it again but it seems most of the negativity towards this drop led you guys to miss out on making a few bucks…

[Terry Fuckwitt]

Feb 17, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

Looks like first prints are being listed

www.artsy.net/artwork/damien-hirst-h14-7-selflessness-from-the-secrets

I contacted the gallery and £7,500 is the official list price with offers from international buyers made and declined at £5,000. Not quite 2x but +40% pre delivery is not a bad indication.

I hate to say it again but it seems most of the negativity towards this drop led you guys to miss out on making a few bucks…

That's sales talk, don't be so gullible 🙄

[Londown 01]

Feb 17, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

I hate to say it again but it seems most of the negativity towards this drop led you guys to miss out on making a few bucks…

WHAT exactly is your agenda? What are you trying to accomplish?

[Smokeidaeye]

Feb 17, 2024 17:48:39 GMT 1 Londown 01 said:

Feb 17, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

I hate to say it again but it seems most of the negativity towards this drop led you guys to miss out on making a few bucks…

WHAT exactly is your agenda? What are you trying to accomplish?

He's on the hook for $3.5k looking for a quick flip before even getting it in hand. I hope that sticker doesn't yellow and fall off, otherwise you can print your own garden painting on dibond starting at 9.40GBP.


tinyurl.com/Dibondflowers

[artenthusiast241]

Feb 17, 2024 17:48:38 GMT 1 Terry Fuckwitt said:

Feb 17, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

Looks like first prints are being listed

www.artsy.net/artwork/damien-hirst-h14-7-selflessness-from-the-secrets

I contacted the gallery and £7,500 is the official list price with offers from international buyers made and declined at £5,000. Not quite 2x but +40% pre delivery is not a bad indication.

I hate to say it again but it seems most of the negativity towards this drop led you guys to miss out on making a few bucks…

That's sales talk, don't be so gullible 🙄

Nope, it was an enquiry from myself to consign one of my pieces. It validated my view that they were good investments. Good luck guys. Hopefully you will pull the trigger on the next drop  

[LJCal]

Feb 17, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

Looks like first prints are being listed

www.artsy.net/artwork/damien-hirst-h14-7-selflessness-from-the-secrets

I contacted the gallery and £7,500 is the official list price with offers from international buyers made and declined at £5,000. Not quite 2x but +40% pre delivery is not a bad indication.

I hate to say it again but it seems most of the negativity towards this drop led you guys to miss out on making a few bucks…

I think you'll probably struggle to find anyone naive enough on here that gives weight to a gallery listing or any disclosures they make regarding other offers. You've obviously bought into this and fair play to you, from a purely selfish point I actually hope you're right. I own Hirst and have done well out of brokering and investing in his prints over the last 10 years (last 5 in particular), so it's more out of part exasperation and disappointment I'm making these comments. All I'd leave you with is trying to hype an open edition on here is likely to have the opposite of your desired effect, especially when it's so transparent. If you're confident in your buy let the numbers do the talking, if you're right you can have the satisfaction of rubbing our noses in it in 12 months time (although my £1000 bet is still on the table if you're super confident, happy to discuss parameters and terms, we can have a trusted member on here hold the money). 

[Acme Thunderer]

Feb 17, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

Looks like first prints are being listed

www.artsy.net/artwork/damien-hirst-h14-7-selflessness-from-the-secrets

I contacted the gallery and £7,500 is the official list price with offers from international buyers made and declined at £5,000. Not quite 2x but +40% pre delivery is not a bad indication.

I hate to say it again but it seems most of the negativity towards this drop led you guys to miss out on making a few bucks…

Here is some really useful advice (with the best intentions even if it sounds harsh)

- Wait for it/them to arrive before trying to sell (especially here) otherwise you are going to look like a massive bell end or a ladies front bottom. 

- No one actually cares if you make a profit or loss so we don’t need a running commentary for the next 3 months until you receive it/them. Even if you make a profit no one will believe you.

[its all about me]

Feb 17, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

Looks like first prints are being listed

www.artsy.net/artwork/damien-hirst-h14-7-selflessness-from-the-secrets

I contacted the gallery and £7,500 is the official list price with offers from international buyers made and declined at £5,000. Not quite 2x but +40% pre delivery is not a bad indication.

I hate to say it again but it seems most of the negativity towards this drop led you guys to miss out on making a few bucks…

Oh, come on. That's a sales pitch. You do realise that, don't you?
 
Galleries are going to advertise these for all sorts of silly prices but that doesn't mean they are now *worth* that price.  

I'm sure you're not really as dim as you appear to be.   

[nobokov]

Feb 16, 2024 8:04:38 GMT 1 Acme Thunderer said:

Interesting insight from LJCal.

I wonder how many dibond panels Heni have stored in their vault? There must be 1,000’s that they are charging people for. They even have the audacity to charge a release fee when you have been paying them $15 per month.

leviathan.heni.com/heni-vault/

If I had to guess, I would guess that maybe they don't even print the things until you pay the release fee. That way they would save on actually having to have a storage space. Do they actually have pictures of their storage area?

[blurp]

They actually don't share many but there's this

Feb 18, 2024 14:30:48 GMT 1 nobokov said:

Feb 16, 2024 8:04:38 GMT 1 Acme Thunderer said:

Interesting insight from LJCal.

I wonder how many dibond panels Heni have stored in their vault? There must be 1,000’s that they are charging people for. They even have the audacity to charge a release fee when you have been paying them $15 per month.

leviathan.heni.com/heni-vault/

If I had to guess, I would guess that maybe they don't even print the things until you pay the release fee. That way they would save on actually having to have a storage space. Do they actually have pictures of their storage area?

[Londown 01]

Feb 18, 2024 13:56:09 GMT 1 its all about me said:

Feb 17, 2024 17:23:26 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

I'm sure you're not really as dim as you appear to be.   

Exactly, so what's his agenda?

[sandinista]

I remember the days when this forum was about the art and not the potential profit.

[Johnny Sarcasm]

Feb 18, 2024 14:54:58 GMT 1 sandinista said:

I remember the days when this forum was about the art and not the potential profit.

Do you? Congratulations, I can’t remember that far back

[Londown 01]

Feb 18, 2024 14:54:58 GMT 1 sandinista said:

I remember the days when this forum was about the art and not the potential profit.

Everybody is saying how ugly and cheap these are: that is about the art. 

Only this one guy keeps talking about them as an investment. 

[artlike]

I like most of these (they're all different if you look carefully) . I think they're bright, bold and colourful in a positive but not over the top way. I think he releases too much.

I am 100% certain that people who bought these may not have bought them to flip.

[blurp]

do i sense......sarcasm?

Feb 18, 2024 15:07:22 GMT 1 Johnny Sarcasm said:

Feb 18, 2024 14:54:58 GMT 1 sandinista said:

I remember the days when this forum was about the art and not the potential profit.

Do you? Congratulations, I can’t remember that far back

[artenthusiast241]

£55k for a complete set works out at £7k each. A nice 2x as predicted based on current comparables. Even when you remove the complete set premium, will still see a 1.25x-1.5x multiplier. Great job for those that managed to purchase a piece.

[Londown 01]

You are so clueless and annoying

[met]

Apr 10, 2024 12:08:49 GMT 1 artenthusiast241 said:

£55k for a complete set works out at £7k each. A nice 2x as predicted based on current comparables. Even when you remove the complete set premium, will still see a 1.25x-1.5x multiplier. Great job for those that managed to purchase a piece.

This kind of post is appreciated, because sound reasoning is often just so boring.



Pretty much any random individual can open a seller's account on Artsy. And it's probably even easier if they call themselves a gallery. They can then pick whatever asking prices they want for their wares.

So if I have time next week, I'll try to list a complete set of these Hirsts for £800,000. Or maybe £5,000,000.

The artwork might still be cringeworthy. But holy moly, my multipliers are going to kick some serious ass.