Art as an investment

[medichead]

This thread has gotten pretty weird.

I agree with a few of the others who are saying ‘do your homework’. That’s the best advice. Watch the market for a while. Don’t buy out of FOMO. Sit on your wallet for a year or two (the things you think are your last opportunities to get on the hype train probably aren’t). People have weird tastes and if you walked around the houses of some of the people saying ‘X is a safe bet’, you would know how to contextualise that advice...

The most specific advice I can give is: buy originals, try and get the artist’s best work, and build a collection of quality items slowly.

[lorraballs]

Aug 15, 2020 10:41:48 GMT 1 @plurker said:

Aug 15, 2020 9:49:55 GMT 1 mission said:

Definitely not Banksy ATM

I find it hard to agree though

We all know that the prices are flying right now, but I've not seen them *ever* take a downward trajectory, since I joined this board in 2007.

They plummeted in 2008

[lorraballs]

Aug 15, 2020 8:57:42 GMT 1 edge said:

Hi Everyone,

I'm loving this group. Just joined this week and I love reading everyones comments and advise 

I have been collecting art for the last 10 years and have some nice pieces on my wall 

Looking for some advise if thats ok? Who's a good artist to invest in right now, as Banksy's are crazy prices now (Glad a got mine 12 years ago) 

Anyone you think would be a good investment for the future???

Thanks for your honest and help x 

 

What art do you own? Why did you buy it?

[lorraballs]

Aug 15, 2020 12:33:25 GMT 1 JockoLad said:

Aug 15, 2020 11:58:30 GMT 1 The Italian One said:

last year i read an article in a very famous economic newspaper that said real investment in art start at 1 million and up..
below that amount there are not good art investment.

off course i do not agree with that...but there is some truth!

Could someone work out the percentage increase for these please:

£100 increase to £12,000
£450 increase to £32,000
£1.99 increase to £150/£200

I challenge anyone in investing to find me something better than that over the space of 10 to 15 years.

While I appreciate that £1m is good for the mega rich, the margins I have on my meagre investments in art (completely unexpected as a bonus) are simply incredible.

It wasn’t an investment. It was a coincidence.

[shy]

Aug 16, 2020 16:48:27 GMT 1 Winter said:

Personally I wouldn't trust a word of anyone on here, especially if it means dropping a lot of money on a piece of art. Do your own homework and research and if you don't know what you're doing invest in something else.

Winter always has very good advice.

You can trust Winter's opinions.

[JockoLad]

Aug 16, 2020 17:18:47 GMT 1 lorraballs said:

Aug 15, 2020 12:33:25 GMT 1 JockoLad said:

Could someone work out the percentage increase for these please:

£100 increase to £12,000
£450 increase to £32,000
£1.99 increase to £150/£200

I challenge anyone in investing to find me something better than that over the space of 10 to 15 years.

While I appreciate that £1m is good for the mega rich, the margins I have on my meagre investments in art (completely unexpected as a bonus) are simply incredible.

It wasn’t an investment. It was a coincidence.

[br

I can assure that it was not. I bought many works knowing I could flip a print for double the next day. I have sat on a lot of art (not of great value) and watched values rise. Many of the pieces I have bought have been as a consequence of following trends/recommendations on this forum. Take away my Banksy purchases and I’ve still made a really good return on investment.

I can say, hand on heart and having been a member of this forum since the mid-noughties, that I was in the right place, at the right time and bought well. That perhaps was a coincidence, but I found this site after purposefully searching.

I only wish I had bought more when I had the chance. Even the items that have little worth adorn my walls and brighten up my ‘pomme de terre’.

I now own Hirst, Perry, Banksy, Dolk, Ai Weiwei to name but a few. I have commissioned works and love visiting galleries. I would have had no clue about art had I not found this forum at the time I did. A hobby is now a passion and it is certainly not down to coincidence. I feel I have planned my purchases well and have benefitted immensely from the advice of others. Not bad for a boy from a single parent family in Leith!

It interests me as financial investors are considered some of the brightest/smartest individuals (not by everyone, of course) but is what they do any different from art collectors or people sticking money on a horse. If you plan well, you should get good returns.

The benefit with art collecting is, even if the market tanks, you’ve still got colourful things hanging on your walls.

[lorraballs]

Aug 15, 2020 15:37:15 GMT 1 nobokov said:

KAWS
Sandra Chevrier
Martin Whatson
Mr. Brainwash
Conor Bros.

These are all sure bets for investment and forum favorites.

This is a joke, yes?

[mojo]

INVEST IN ESTATE
ESTATE 

[lorraballs]

Aug 16, 2020 17:33:46 GMT 1 JockoLad said:

Aug 16, 2020 17:18:47 GMT 1 lorraballs said:

It wasn’t an investment. It was a coincidence.

[br

I can assure that it was not. I bought many works knowing I could flip a print for double the next day. I have sat on a lot of art (not of great value) and watched values rise. Many of the pieces I have bought have been as a consequence of following trends/recommendations on this forum. Take away my Banksy purchases and I’ve still made a really good return on investment.

I can say, hand on heart and having been a member of this forum since the mid-noughties, that I was in the right place, at the right time and bought well. That perhaps was a coincidence, but I found this site after purposefully searching.

I only wish I had bought more when I had the chance. Even the items that have little worth adorn my walls and brighten up my ‘pomme de terre’.

I now own Hirst, Perry, Banksy, Dolk, Ai Weiwei to name but a few. I have commissioned works and love visiting galleries. I would have had no clue about art had I not found this forum at the time I did. A hobby is now a passion and it is certainly not down to coincidence. I feel I have planned my purchases well and have benefitted immensely from the advice of others. Not bad for a boy from a single parent family in Leith!

It interests me as financial investors are considered some of the brightest/smartest individuals (not by everyone, of course) but is what they do any different from art collectors or people sticking money on a horse. If you plan well, you should get good returns.

The benefit with art collecting is, even if the market tanks, you’ve still got colourful things hanging on your walls.

Fair do. I don’t believe you. You literally said it was unexpected. That makes it not an investment

[JockoLad]

Aug 16, 2020 18:03:24 GMT 1 lorraballs said:

Aug 16, 2020 17:33:46 GMT 1 JockoLad said:

[br

I can assure that it was not. I bought many works knowing I could flip a print for double the next day. I have sat on a lot of art (not of great value) and watched values rise. Many of the pieces I have bought have been as a consequence of following trends/recommendations on this forum. Take away my Banksy purchases and I’ve still made a really good return on investment.

I can say, hand on heart and having been a member of this forum since the mid-noughties, that I was in the right place, at the right time and bought well. That perhaps was a coincidence, but I found this site after purposefully searching.

I only wish I had bought more when I had the chance. Even the items that have little worth adorn my walls and brighten up my ‘pomme de terre’.

I now own Hirst, Perry, Banksy, Dolk, Ai Weiwei to name but a few. I have commissioned works and love visiting galleries. I would have had no clue about art had I not found this forum at the time I did. A hobby is now a passion and it is certainly not down to coincidence. I feel I have planned my purchases well and have benefitted immensely from the advice of others. Not bad for a boy from a single parent family in Leith!

It interests me as financial investors are considered some of the brightest/smartest individuals (not by everyone, of course) but is what they do any different from art collectors or people sticking money on a horse. If you plan well, you should get good returns.

The benefit with art collecting is, even if the market tanks, you’ve still got colourful things hanging on your walls.

Fair do. I don’t believe you.

Check my profile, not many people on this forum anymore from the mid-2000s.

I tended to lurk historically but want to contribute a bit more now as the standard of conversation has plummeted of late.

[lorraballs]

Aug 16, 2020 18:07:54 GMT 1 JockoLad said:

Aug 16, 2020 18:03:24 GMT 1 lorraballs said:

Fair do. I don’t believe you.

Check my profile, not many people on this forum anymore from the mid-2000s.

I tended to lurk historically but want to contribute a bit more now as the standard of conversation has plummeted of late.

Plummeted of late? You’ve obviously not been paying attention for the last 10 years. Also, if you were hanging in your pomme de tere, you’d have a much clearer understanding of the logic and passion that drove that collector. And, once again, you said that any return was completely unexpected. That makes it coincidence. Luck. Kismet. It does not make it an investment. I think you are an old sock puppet account, rejuvenated to revitalise a staid forum... would that you weren’t 

[JockoLad]

A return absolutely was expected. The level of return as of now - unexpected. Certain amount of luck involved, I’ll go with that.

I think this forum has a while to go yet until it completely stagnates. There are still a lot of people making the effort to make it interesting.

[JockoLad]

I said in an earlier post that came close to selling a print a few years back for £700ish. I knew when I bought it I could instantly make money. Did I think it would reach these levels - not at all. I dreamed that it might. I was honestly amazed to discover how the art market works and how easily money could be made.

I’ve always had a ballpark trigger price that I would sell at. That price is creeping ever closer and I now think I’d be a fool not to continue to hold out for a while longer.

If the bubble were to burst tomorrow I would still have lovely art on my walls and even more stories to tell.

[Deleted]

Aug 16, 2020 18:30:04 GMT 1 lorraballs said:

Aug 16, 2020 18:07:54 GMT 1 JockoLad said:

Check my profile, not many people on this forum anymore from the mid-2000s.

I tended to lurk historically but want to contribute a bit more now as the standard of conversation has plummeted of late.

Plummeted of late? You’ve obviously not been paying attention for the last 10 years. Also, if you were hanging in your pomme de tere, you’d have a much clearer understanding of the logic and passion that drove that collector. And, once again, you said that any return was completely unexpected. That makes it coincidence. Luck. Kismet. It does not make it an investment. I think you are an old sock puppet account, rejuvenated to revitalise a staid forum... would that you weren’t 

All investment is luck. Something becoming much more valuable than expected doesn't mean it wasn't an investment. It means it was a good investment.

[lorraballs]

Aug 16, 2020 18:50:49 GMT 1 @whatilike said:

Aug 16, 2020 18:30:04 GMT 1 lorraballs said:

Plummeted of late? You’ve obviously not been paying attention for the last 10 years. Also, if you were hanging in your pomme de tere, you’d have a much clearer understanding of the logic and passion that drove that collector. And, once again, you said that any return was completely unexpected. That makes it coincidence. Luck. Kismet. It does not make it an investment. I think you are an old sock puppet account, rejuvenated to revitalise a staid forum... would that you weren’t 

All investment is luck. Something becoming much more valuable than expected doesn't mean it wasn't an investment. It means it was a good investment.

Don’t be daft. That would make a roulette spin an investment

[Deleted]

Aug 16, 2020 18:53:50 GMT 1 lorraballs said:

Aug 16, 2020 18:50:49 GMT 1 @whatilike said:

All investment is luck. Something becoming much more valuable than expected doesn't mean it wasn't an investment. It means it was a good investment.

Don’t be daft. That would make a roulette spin an investment

No it wouldn't. You can buy something thinking it's an investment that might appreciate a little bit. Just because it far exceeds your expectations it doesn't mean you weren't investing. People bought Banksy work years ago for a few hundred quid, or less, and thought they were a good investment because they probably wouldn't lose value. I don't think any bought thinking they'd be worth 1,000 times what they paid.

All investment is based on luck. You can invest intelligently and do lots of homework, but it's still reliant on luck. Financial crashes, artists falling out of favour or tarnishing their reputation, global pandemics - they can all tank a seemingly bulletproof investment.

[Eton Groover]

Art is not an investment. It’s a hobby / collection pastime and a way of holding assets. The more money you have the more expensive the things you collect. You primarily collect for enjoyment of owning, collecting, sourcing.

If you’re constantly following markets and buying primarily with an eye to making a profit, you’re not investing, you’re working.

[tab1]

Aug 16, 2020 23:58:57 GMT 1 @plurker said:

Aug 16, 2020 18:48:02 GMT 1 JockoLad said:

I’ve always had a ballpark trigger price that I would sell at. That price is creeping ever closer and I now think I’d be a fool not to continue to hold out for a while longer.

Mine passed the threshold last month.
I'm holding on, for now...

I said the same 6 years ago and now the figure I had in mind met, but without needing the funds and how the market is expanding globally would be unwise to sell now , the price I bought for even with a crash in the market ,should not reach that price again , so only potential profit lost and initial outlay is safe

[Coach]

Aug 17, 2020 10:25:38 GMT 1 @plurker said:

Aug 17, 2020 10:12:31 GMT 1 tab1 said:

I said the same 6 years ago and now the figure I had in mind met, but without needing the funds and how the market is expanding globally would be unwise to sell now , the price I bought for even with a crash in the market ,should not reach that price again , so only potential profit lost and initial outlay is safe

I work in live music, my job is lost

I'm trying to hold on, but rent is more pressure than art ☹️

I’m very sorry to hear that; and wish you all the best. Terrible times.

[sandinista]

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2020 10:25:38 GMT 1 @plurker said:

Aug 17, 2020 10:12:31 GMT 1 tab1 said:

I said the same 6 years ago and now the figure I had in mind met, but without needing the funds and how the market is expanding globally would be unwise to sell now , the price I bought for even with a crash in the market ,should not reach that price again , so only potential profit lost and initial outlay is safe

I work in live music, my job is lost

I'm trying to hold on, but rent is more pressure than art ☹️

I work in live music as well. Hope we make it through to next year!

[Deleted]

I’m curious who is gonna be the next big thing worldwide! Who’s got some new artists to share??

[ca]

Aug 17, 2020 15:44:48 GMT 1 @afreefilms said:

I’m curious who is gonna be the next big thing worldwide! Who’s got some new artists to share??

lol

[rockbeer]

A few years ago in the course of a project I was working on I got to spend several hours in a van with an art buyer responsible for making purchasing decisions that involved significant sums of Russian money. (I didn't ask where it came from!)

There was no point in probing her for specific investment hints as everything she was looking at was so far out of my league it wasn't funny. So I asked her how she knew what to buy.

Her advice boiled down to this:

1. Learn to trust yourself, your taste and your instinct.

I got the impression she'd done this (before she started spending other people's money) by starting small and paying close attention to what happened to her purchases. Which ones appreciated and which ones went nowhere. Why? She recognised there was a lot of luck involved, but also that it wasn't entirely a matter of luck. The more informed she got about people's tastes and about fashions in the art world, the luckier she got – and the more able to trust her ability to find the sweet spot where her own tastes and preferences coincided with those of the wider market.

2. Just start. You never know what will happen – only that if you do nothing, nothing will happen.

3. Be prepared to get it wrong. Not everything you buy will be a winner, and that's fine. To give yourself a chance of success, you have to be brave enough to face the possibility of failure.

4. Don't take it too seriously. It's only daubs of paint (or ink or whatever) on paper. Nothing important really hangs on it, and as long as you are happy to own what you've bought and are willing to place no weight on the outcome then you can just enjoy the art, and the process of seeking it out and buying it, for what it is. Fun, essentially.

Last I heard of her, she was in a Siberian Gulag after losing £150 million of her paymasters' money.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2020 15:51:21 GMT 1 ca said:

Aug 17, 2020 15:44:48 GMT 1 @afreefilms said:

I’m curious who is gonna be the next big thing worldwide! Who’s got some new artists to share??

lol

What's so funny? Just curious who people think is gonna be a household name next up.

[Coach]

Aug 17, 2020 16:58:36 GMT 1 @afreefilms said:

Aug 17, 2020 15:51:21 GMT 1 ca said:

lol

What's so funny? Just curious who people think is gonna be a household name next up.

The question has been asked time and time again over the years I’ve frequented this forum.
Simple answer is that no one knows.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2020 17:02:20 GMT 1 Coach said:

Aug 17, 2020 16:58:36 GMT 1 @afreefilms said:

What's so funny? Just curious who people think is gonna be a household name next up.

The question has been asked time and time again over the years I’ve frequented this forum.
Simple answer is that no one knows.

Yes haha, that is obvious. Just asking for opinions.. Don't care if they know or not. That's the fun of it!

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2020 16:35:21 GMT 1 rockbeer said:

A few years ago in the course of a project I was working on I got to spend several hours in a van with an art buyer responsible for making purchasing decisions that involved significant sums of Russian money. (I didn't ask where it came from!)

There was no point in probing her for specific investment hints as everything she was looking at was so far out of my league it wasn't funny. So I asked her how she knew what to buy.

Her advice boiled down to this:

1. Learn to trust yourself, your taste and your instinct.

I got the impression she'd done this (before she started spending other people's money) by starting small and paying close attention to what happened to her purchases. Which ones appreciated and which ones went nowhere. Why? She recognised there was a lot of luck involved, but also that it wasn't entirely a matter of luck. The more informed she got about people's tastes and about fashions in the art world, the luckier she got – and the more able to trust her ability to find the sweet spot where her own tastes and preferences coincided with those of the wider market.

2. Just start. You never know what will happen – only that if you do nothing, nothing will happen.

3. Be prepared to get it wrong. Not everything you buy will be a winner, and that's fine. To give yourself a chance of success, you have to be brave enough to face the possibility of failure.

4. Don't take it too seriously. It's only daubs of paint (or ink or whatever) on paper. Nothing important really hangs on it, and as long as you are happy to own what you've bought and are willing to place no weight on the outcome then you can just enjoy the art, and the process of seeking it out and buying it, for what it is. Fun, essentially.

Last I heard of her, she was in a Siberian Gulag after losing £150 million of her paymasters' money.

This thread should be locked after that post. Perfect.

[Deleted]

Aug 17, 2020 17:31:35 GMT 1 Mooncub said:

Aug 17, 2020 16:58:36 GMT 1 @afreefilms said:

What's so funny? Just curious who people think is gonna be a household name next up.

Even if I did know, I wouldn't go spouting my head off in here.  

And anybody who says "x is going to be huge" is either (a) slightly deluded, or (b) has an ulterior motive for saying so, or (c) possibly both.  

Agreed. I go by the phrase.. "Buy what you like"

[nobokov]

Aug 16, 2020 18:01:20 GMT 1 lorraballs said:

Aug 15, 2020 15:37:15 GMT 1 nobokov said:

KAWS
Sandra Chevrier
Martin Whatson
Mr. Brainwash
Conor Bros.

These are all sure bets for investment and forum favorites.

This is a joke, yes?

No Joke, they're blue chip investment grade artists.