NFT Art

[Monkey]

Maybe this has been sent in other threads but Beeple made a nice amount of cash at its latest sale
observer.com/2020/12/net-artist-beeple-nifty-gateway-auction-record/

Not sure how to consider it yet but it's probably a good time to check in non fungible tokens and blockchain items for future art investments.

This having been said, I don't see the problem with it being a gif / jpg / whatever. At the end, an artist achieved a vision and produced an art piece. The fact it is "immaterial" does not make it worthless. If you think about it, Banksy "only" spray some stencils, Invader "only" glue some tiles... You're not paying for the materials, but for the realisation. Same goes with those. Having it immaterial also allows to create new media: holograms, animations instead of stills, 3d/4d virtual objects... It just widens the possibility
Now with tokens/blockchain it's easy to define how many people and who own a specific art piece and avoid buying fakes! Just my 2cts but interesting topic for sure

[Monkey]

Jan 15, 2021 11:10:53 GMT 1 Onket said:

So you display the art on a screen? I spose I get that, but it isn't for me.
Plus, can't it just be copied & shared?

Yep you can display it on a screen or if it's a still, print it on your favorite paper and frame it

Here's how Beeple pieces look like. I like the rendering of those:

www.dropbox.com/s/ztr80rq4ru3duoo/Beeple.mp4?dl=0

It can be copied and shared for sure. Like prints can be copied and shared, like mosaics can be copied and shared... Like most things finally.

But ownership and signature is yours and can't be faked

Here's an easy read about blockchained art

justincone.com/posts/nft-skeptics-guide/

[Monkey]

Jan 15, 2021 11:45:01 GMT 1 Onket said:

Pretty sure everything can be faked, but I take your point.

Blockchain relies on SHA-256 protocol so yes, in theory, there's a 2^256 chance it can be faked if you have unlimited computing power (or a fully functionnal quantic computer). But if you're able to break RSA, you're actually able to break stock markets, banking systems, GAFA data centers and you'd be the world master

Today we kinda agreed that 256 is enough: privacycanada.net/cryptanalysis/why-is-2-256-secure/

[Monkey]

Jan 15, 2021 12:58:14 GMT 1 derivitive said:

That's just the encryption. Look up 51 percent attacks

Yes, correct! Regarding the current valuation of most cryptocurrencies this is unlikely to happen. The likelihood of a single person or group obtaining enough computing power to overwhelm all the other participants is almost out of reach if the network is popular enough. Not the same order of magnitude than RSA though agreed.
Moreover there're some protection one can setup when launching a new system (like reserve accounts and similar)

[Amber Halo]

With mentions of art-related NFTs in several other threads, I thought it made sense to try to consolidate some of that into one thread to discuss NFTs/Digital Art in one thread.  Odd that I am creating it as I have very little understanding of it all, save for the basics, but again thought it made since to try to corral the discussion into one main thread if possible. 

I'll lead off with the news today from Christie's.

www.theartnewspaper.com/news/the-future-of-the-art-market-christie-s-to-become-first-major-auction-house-to-sell-a-standalone-nft-work-of-art

‘The future of the art market’: Christie’s to become first major auction house to sell a standalone NFT work of art

Are NFTs a fad or do they represent the future of the art market?



That is the question Christie’s appears to be testing later this month when it becomes the first major auction house to offer a standalone NFT (Non-Fungible Token) work of art.



The work is by Beeple—who might sound like a character from a children’s television programme, but whose Instagram account has a very real following of 1.8m—and is titled Everydays: The First 5000 Days (2021). The vast, pixellated work is comprised of 5,000 individual images created every day since 1 May 2007.



Beeple (whose real name is Mike Winkelmann) already has celebrity backing, having created concert visuals for artists such as Ariana Grande, Justin Bieber, Childish Gambino, Nicki Minaj, Skrillex and deadmau5. His art has also attracted considerable prices; a collection of 20 works sold for $3.5m in December.



However, given the unprecedented nature of the Christie’s sale, the auction house is offering Beeple’s work with an “unknown” estimate. Bidding starts at $100 (the auction runs from 25 February-11 March). Unlike the NFT Christie’s sold last October by Robert Alice (which was a virtual version of a painting), Beeple’s work is purely digital. The winning bidder will receive an encrypted file without any kind of physical presence, and the transaction will be registered on the blockchain. Crucially, unlike the traditional art world, the provenance for all NFT purchases are public, immutable and available on the blockchain.



According to Noah Davis, a Christie’s specialist in post-war and contemporary art, the market for NFTs has “seen a rapid ascent over the last few years—especially the last few months”.



One very recent case in point: on 14 February, the graphic designer David Rudnick who is known for high-profile collaborations with musicians including Black Midi, Nicolas Jaar and Oneohtrix Point Never, sold a Valentine’s Day NFT for almost $20,000. An anonymous bidder paid 10.8 WETH (Wrapped Ether), the equivalent of $18,600, for Stem—a glitchy rendering of a flower.



The work was sold on Zora, which offers artists a percentage of all future sales, unlike traditional trading platforms where artists lose out on resales. In the case of Rudnick’s Stem, his share is 10%.

So who is buying this kind of art? Davis says that millennials occupy a “major segment of the market for NFTs, and are mostly new to the traditional art at auction category”, but he also notes that buyers include “a generation of collectors who have long awaited the advent of the market for digital art”.



The potential NFT market is particularly of interest, Davis adds, “because it appeals to audiences who are tech-savvy and singularly focused on digital art, as well as collectors who have long been drawn to the cutting-edge of art in new media”.



Among the tech-savy to have recently publicised their investment in NFT art are the SpaceX and Tesla chief executive, Elon Musk, and Chamath Palihapitiya, the chief executive of the technology holding company Social Capital and former Facebook executive.



Palihapitiya is reported to have been building a sizeable portfolio of NFTs including digital art and virtual trading cards, recently telling Bloomberg: “I do think that that’s the next frontier of digital currency and digital assets.”



Palihapitiya has also been making headlines recently as the “undisputed king of special-purpose acquisition companies [SPACs]”—another new frontier that appears to be opening up in the art market.



For some, such as Jason Bailey, the founder of the analytical database artnome and digital art specialist, the current attention to NFTs is not surprising. As he puts it: “The centre of culture and influence has long been moving from the analogue world to the digital world”—and the pandemic is no doubt accelerating this shift.



Nonetheless, the art world has been typically slow to catch up. As Bailey points out, auction house brands in particular “are built around exclusivity, a centralised system, and analogue events like live auctions and art fairs. This approach worked well with boomers for many decades”.



However, he adds: “The post-boomer generations are poised to benefit from the largest wealth transfer in human history. The younger generations have views that are antithetical to boomer values, preferring brands built on inclusivity, decentralisation, and a digitally native experience. If Christie’s and the other auction houses treat blockchain and NFTs like a trend instead of the future of the art market, they will have missed their opportunity for relevance with future generations.”



The quality of art on offer has been sticking point for some of the more traditional art world players, though Bailey says to write off NFTs based on not liking the work of a handful of artists is “not unlike having seen a few websites from the early 1990s and writing off the entire potential of the internet”.



The question now is how long before NFTs are traded rather than merely being bought and held on to. Only then will we be able to assess whether this market will thrive or not.

[WOOF]

Maybe this is the future, maybe it isn't. But I personally won't be putting a dime into virtual art.

[Amber Halo]

Woof - I hope you’ve been well!

I won’t argue with you. I get it. My personal enjoyment of art is driven by its physical presence. It’s why my flat file is basically non existent and 90+% of what I own is framed and on the wall.

But NFTs I think are here to stay, and a segment of those are art related. So dumping those here I figure might help consolidate the discussion (though perhaps that naive thinking on my part with the forum as it is).

[gimmeabreak]

beanie babies are here to stay


just cashin in on a crypto bubble. can we not have another dumb crypto thread

[WOOF]

Feb 16, 2021 23:19:22 GMT 1 Amber Halo said:

Woof - I hope you’ve been well!

I won’t argue with you. I get it. My personal enjoyment of art is driven by its physical presence. It’s why my flat file is basically non existent and 90+% of what I own is framed and on the wall.

But NFTs I think are here to stay, and a segment of those are art related. So dumping those here I figure might help consolidate the discussion (though perhaps that naive thinking on my part with the forum as it is).

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s totally worthy of discussion. In fairness, I thought I’d never buy crypto either and that changed. Didn’t mean to poo poo your thread haha

[theclash]

Feb 17, 2021 9:32:06 GMT 1 @dmatt said:

Considering how much money is flowing into NTFs and also considering that it is keeping the crypto market up, NFT is a branch of the art purchases that is growing very strong.

You all will be jaw dropping when you’ll see artists releasing a physical artwork only if you purchase an NFT first as COA.

NFT also pay the artist every time an artwork is re-sold, so they will have 400% interest on releasing more NFTs rather than paper works.

Yes could easily see this lead to a proper cataloging of ownership similar to what Everledger did for the diamond market.

[Cool User Name]

I'm very much a bull on Bitcoin and Ethereum but NFT's are looking like the 2021 equivalent of 2017 ICO shitcoins. I predict a bunch of people holding bags of worthless clipart in a year or so
Maybe i'll be proved wrong on this, i dunno...

[Cool User Name]

Very impressive. do you know if niftygateway, opensea, etc... have anything in place to stop shill bidding, artists buying their own work at inflated prices, etc...? I imagine it's quite easy to do.

[Sixty Bells]

Feb 17, 2021 10:34:33 GMT 1 @dmatt said:

I'm just leaving it here...

www.instagram.com/tv/CLSPMpAnybO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Oh man...

[Sunny Garcia]

Digital art is here, and collectors will collect it! But paying big money for something that you can "barely" display, just seems weird!? Unless you're only in it for the money or to say that you own something rare.

We all collect prints and paintings as they decorate our homes, (unless you're 100% in it for pure investment), and define a sense of style about each of us, so I can't see people wanting digital art the same way we want physical art. Maybe it will be more like collecting cards or shoes, that inevitably get tucked away into a closet.

I hate the future 😂

[Sunny Garcia]

Feb 17, 2021 17:40:48 GMT 1 @dmatt said:

Feb 17, 2021 16:59:17 GMT 1 Sunny Garcia said:

Digital art is here, and collectors will collect it! But paying big money for something that you can "barely" display, just seems weird!? Unless you're only in it for the money or to say that you own something rare.

We all collect prints and paintings as they decorate our homes, (unless you're 100% in it for pure investment), and define a sense of style about each of us, so I can't see people wanting digital art the same way we want physical art. Maybe it will be more like collecting cards or shoes, that inevitably get tucked away into a closet.

I hate the future 😂

It will likely be a combination of digital+print or digital+frame or soon they will create a frame to show your NTFs. There are already digital frames for photos (that are just tablets), so I don't see a big jump to companies like Facebook, Apple etc to incorporate purchase through crypto currency and showing in your NFT wallet on your iphone, ipad or iframe.

EDM producer 3LAU is already doing so, adding to the NFT some dope art pieces to show the audio/video/nft purchased.

niftygateway.com/collections/everything

Dope, really? Not my thing, that's for sure. 

Seems like a video game crowd TBH.

[volvic]

Can anyone actually show me some good NFT art? Everything I have seen looks like the sort of thing I’d see in cyber dog. Or in a deadmau5 concert.

I can’t understand why people are paying 80k for something from a totally unknown artist to the artworld with no Musuem support or gallery shows. Who’s buying it? People with an abundance of ETH?

[TAXED]

[Cool User Name]

looks more like pokemon cards than art

[Sunny Garcia]

Feb 17, 2021 19:49:37 GMT 1 @dmatt said:

The Artworld is lagging behind Social media, that's the issue.

There are so many millionaires under 25 that the "normal" people in their 40s-50s totally ignore...

Sure, but that still doesn’t mean they want 8-bit terrible digital whatever these are on their walls?

I get it, these have a place now. But to say that the art world is shifting towards NFT’s is a bit of a stretch at the moment.

Block chain COA’s I see happening - sure. They’ll pay out a fee for every time a piece moves (back to the artist).

Is that what you’re taking about?

[rosac]

Feb 17, 2021 21:37:38 GMT 1 Sunny Garcia said:

Feb 17, 2021 19:49:37 GMT 1 @dmatt said:

The Artworld is lagging behind Social media, that's the issue.

There are so many millionaires under 25 that the "normal" people in their 40s-50s totally ignore...

Sure, but that still doesn’t mean they want 8-bit terrible digital whatever these are on their walls?

I get it, these have a place now. But to say that the art world is shifting towards NFT’s is a bit of a stretch at the moment.

Block chain COA’s I see happening - sure. They’ll pay out a fee for every time a piece moves (back to the artist).

Is that what you’re taking about?

The blockchain COA’s is the only way I can really see it working. This digital art stuff doesn’t float my boat. I want something tangible where i have real brush strokes, not something created on photoshop

[theclash]

Interesting NFT discussion on Clubhouse with Beeple, Christies and a bunch of digital artists right now

[rosac]

Feb 17, 2021 22:45:48 GMT 1 @dmatt said:

Feb 17, 2021 22:10:51 GMT 1 rosac said:

The blockchain COA’s is the only way I can really see it working. This digital art stuff doesn’t float my boat. I want something tangible where i have real brush strokes, not something created on photoshop

They said the same with crypto currency and look where we are...

Depends on whether you are in it for the money... or because you like art. For sure there will be ‘investment’ opportunity’s as the hype train gets going

[spanksy]

Just wait for fully digital paper

[sfnyc]

The mother of all bubbles.

In short: People only buy to resell it. There is no use for it in any format. NFT art has all the characteristics of a pyramid scheme.

How I came to understand it:

Well I didn't understand it at first. Then I created an account in the last few days and actually sold a few stupid images for decent amounts of money (not that much, but more than some actual legitimate artist's prints sell for). And I'm kinda feeling bad for whoever is buying that shit. I dug deeper into it analyzing other "creator" accounts and also realized there is a lot of fake transactions to make it look interesting or real. But most of it is fake volume with people selling between each other's accounts that they control to give a fake sense of valuation and appear on the top seller daily lists. Half the transactions are just fake/fraud transactions to make their shit look desirable.

So yeah, it's a pyramid scheme. I like cryptocurrencies, but NFT Art is for fools.

[Sixty Bells]

Fake Banksy nets $1m in nft sales

cointelegraph.com/news/nft-market-top-signal-fake-banksy-nets-over-1-million-in-eth-sales

[thos]

Feb 19, 2021 8:35:07 GMT 1 sfnyc said:

The mother of all bubbles.

In short: People only buy to resell it. There is no use for it in any format. NFT art has all the characteristics of a pyramid scheme.

How I came to understand it:

Well I didn't understand it at first. Then I created an account in the last few days and actually sold a few stupid images for decent amounts of money (not that much, but more than some actual legitimate artist's prints sell for). And I'm kinda feeling bad for whoever is buying that shit. I dug deeper into it analyzing other "creator" accounts and also realized there is a lot of fake transactions to make it look interesting or real. But most of it is fake volume with people selling between each other's accounts that they control to give a fake sense of valuation and appear on the top seller daily lists. Half the transactions are just fake/fraud transactions to make their shit look desirable.

So yeah, it's a pyramid scheme. I like cryptocurrencies, but NFT Art is for fools.

Or maybe just good old money laundering (the same thing everyone originally said crypto was being used for anyway)?  I personally never understood purchasing digital items, but it looks like there really is a market for it, so good for any artists who can make a buck this way.

I think it would be cool to use blockchain as proof of purchase/ownership for real, material artwork.  Maybe it's already being done?

[darwin]

Christies to offer NFT by Beeple to the market:

www.christies.com/features/Monumental-collage-by-Beeple-is-first-purely-digital-artwork-NFT-to-come-to-auction-11510-7.aspx

[startimeash]

Jan 15, 2021 12:00:44 GMT 1 Monkey said:

Jan 15, 2021 11:45:01 GMT 1 Onket said:

Pretty sure everything can be faked, but I take your point.

Blockchain relies on SHA-256 protocol so yes, in theory, there's a 2^256 chance it can be faked if you have unlimited computing power (or a fully functionnal quantic computer). But if you're able to break RSA, you're actually able to break stock markets, banking systems, GAFA data centers and you'd be the world master

Today we kinda agreed that 256 is enough: privacycanada.net/cryptanalysis/why-is-2-256-secure/

Brute force is literally the worst way to break encryption. RSA and SHA are also two different things completely; SHA is a fixed length, one way hashing algorithm, and RSA is a type of public key encryption algorithm (named for Rivest, Shamir, and Adelman). Hash collision is better attempted by looking at the algorithm itself, as was done with MD5 and SHA-1, and will undoubtedly be done with SHA-256. MD5 is still fine in 99% of use cases that don’t need security. Conversely, SHA-256 is, for the moment, cryptanalytically secure, as far as we know. Would I bet the farm on it if my life were at stake? Probably not, because most people would’ve made the same bet on SHA-1 just 15 years ago.

All that said, you’d have to really want an authenticated copy of the token to go to the trouble.

[Pawel]

Sometimes I just it’s just all the crypto millionaires don’t know not spend their ETH And BTC.
I’d say all the NFT can work great for collectibles like Pokemon or baseball cards. No need to make them, no need to ship them no need to store them. You can see suck card on your mobile. Also it’s very easy to sell/buy.

With artworks, it’s a little more complicated. The main one I believe, the obvious one, is that it’s difficult to put such work on the wall. That might probably change in the future. That said we would all get Banksy NFT.

[Pawel]

Feb 20, 2021 23:57:26 GMT 1 @dmatt said:

oh wow... yup.... here's the NFT train running...

People spend serious money. Of course auction houses want a slice.