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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Daniel Silk on Mar 17, 2011 13:05:00 GMT 1, I wonder that Banksy's work has now largely become like a fashion accessory to some  and the true fans of his work have been left behind and forgotten.
I would say the big worry for him is that the people he now seems to be pandering to are very fickle 
I wonder that Banksy's work has now largely become like a fashion accessory to some and the true fans of his work have been left behind and forgotten. I would say the big worry for him is that the people he now seems to be pandering to are very fickle |
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pezlow
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by pezlow on Mar 17, 2011 13:17:12 GMT 1, It isn't just the contemporary art market that it perhaps overpriced though. The prices on Modern British art has gone through the roof in the last 5 years as well. There is no doubt that people are seeing art as an investment. It may well end in tears.
It isn't just the contemporary art market that it perhaps overpriced though. The prices on Modern British art has gone through the roof in the last 5 years as well. There is no doubt that people are seeing art as an investment. It may well end in tears.
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artylang
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by artylang on Mar 17, 2011 13:29:35 GMT 1, It isn't just the contemporary art market that it perhaps overpriced though. The prices on Modern British art has gone through the roof in the last 5 years as well. There is no doubt that people are seeing art as an investment. It may well end in tears.
interesting point Perry. One could also argue that with the volatility within the financial markets makes art a very attractive shelter to hedge against inflation and other such beasts.
It isn't just the contemporary art market that it perhaps overpriced though. The prices on Modern British art has gone through the roof in the last 5 years as well. There is no doubt that people are seeing art as an investment. It may well end in tears. interesting point Perry. One could also argue that with the volatility within the financial markets makes art a very attractive shelter to hedge against inflation and other such beasts. |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Brushstrokes 75 on Mar 17, 2011 15:05:49 GMT 1, It isn't just the contemporary art market that it perhaps overpriced though. The prices on Modern British art has gone through the roof in the last 5 years as well. There is no doubt that people are seeing art as an investment. It may well end in tears.
Prices are through the roof for solid reasons.
That's the difference between modern & contemporary art. Contemporary art is highly volatile, highly manipulated market. Modern artist have usually proved their value. All modern artist have been regaining a lot in the last few years because they are more secured assets.
Same thing happened in the financial markets with technological values 10 years ago. People preferred to invest back in the good old bluechips rather than underdogs.
I'm not saying that the market isn't overall overpriced but it tends to be less important. Modern art are like beta stocks, they don't lose that much in recession.
Of course, art is an investment. Who put more than £10K consistently to buy art if you're thinking that you're gonna lose everything.
If you just compare, prices index between Picasso & Hirst between 2008 and today.
Hirst price has been divided by 3. Picasso lost 40%...
On the other hand, Hirst prices have been multiplied by 10 between 1998 and 2008. Picasso prices a bit more than 2.
It's the same old song. Higher risk with contemporary means potential higher return but potential higher loss as well.
It isn't just the contemporary art market that it perhaps overpriced though. The prices on Modern British art has gone through the roof in the last 5 years as well. There is no doubt that people are seeing art as an investment. It may well end in tears. Prices are through the roof for solid reasons. That's the difference between modern & contemporary art. Contemporary art is highly volatile, highly manipulated market. Modern artist have usually proved their value. All modern artist have been regaining a lot in the last few years because they are more secured assets. Same thing happened in the financial markets with technological values 10 years ago. People preferred to invest back in the good old bluechips rather than underdogs. I'm not saying that the market isn't overall overpriced but it tends to be less important. Modern art are like beta stocks, they don't lose that much in recession. Of course, art is an investment. Who put more than £10K consistently to buy art if you're thinking that you're gonna lose everything. If you just compare, prices index between Picasso & Hirst between 2008 and today. Hirst price has been divided by 3. Picasso lost 40%... On the other hand, Hirst prices have been multiplied by 10 between 1998 and 2008. Picasso prices a bit more than 2. It's the same old song. Higher risk with contemporary means potential higher return but potential higher loss as well. |
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pezlow
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by pezlow on Mar 17, 2011 15:27:23 GMT 1, It isn't just the contemporary art market that it perhaps overpriced though. The prices on Modern British art has gone through the roof in the last 5 years as well. There is no doubt that people are seeing art as an investment. It may well end in tears. Prices are through the roof for solid reasons. That's the difference between modern & contemporary art. Contemporary art is highly volatile, highly manipulated market. Modern artist have usually proved their value. All modern artist have been regaining a lot in the last few years because they are more secured assets. Same thing happened in the financial markets with technological values 10 years ago. People preferred to invest back in the good old bluechips rather than underdogs. I'm not saying that the market isn't overall overpriced but it tends to be less important. Modern art are like beta stocks, they don't lose that much in recession. Of course, art is an investment. Who put more than £10K consistently to buy art if you're thinking that you're gonna lose everything. If you just compare, prices index between Picasso & Hirst between 2008 and today. Hirst price has been divided by 3. Picasso lost 40%... On the other hand, Hirst prices have been multiplied by 10 between 1998 and 2008. Picasso prices a bit more than 2. It's the same old song. Higher risk with contemporary means potential higher return but potential higher loss as well.
Yeah you are right of course art is an investment if you are buying at that level. I guess the point I was trying to make (not very well) was that people are seeing art as a genuine investment alternative to other more natural investment vehicles such as stocks and shares, property, savings products etc.
I think there has been a move into broader art investment (and indeed other alternative investments such as wine). This has led to the price rises we have seen recently. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future but I do wonder whether "art investors" will get stung seriously.
For that reason I'm not sure it is valid to compare different artists to different types of stocks. Yeah sure maybe modern artists are a safer investment than contemporary artists but to buy art at all on the basis that it is an investment is lunacy. Why invest in an industry that is completely unregulated and a slave to massive swings in the value of items due to fashion and taste?
It isn't just the contemporary art market that it perhaps overpriced though. The prices on Modern British art has gone through the roof in the last 5 years as well. There is no doubt that people are seeing art as an investment. It may well end in tears. Prices are through the roof for solid reasons. That's the difference between modern & contemporary art. Contemporary art is highly volatile, highly manipulated market. Modern artist have usually proved their value. All modern artist have been regaining a lot in the last few years because they are more secured assets. Same thing happened in the financial markets with technological values 10 years ago. People preferred to invest back in the good old bluechips rather than underdogs. I'm not saying that the market isn't overall overpriced but it tends to be less important. Modern art are like beta stocks, they don't lose that much in recession. Of course, art is an investment. Who put more than £10K consistently to buy art if you're thinking that you're gonna lose everything. If you just compare, prices index between Picasso & Hirst between 2008 and today. Hirst price has been divided by 3. Picasso lost 40%... On the other hand, Hirst prices have been multiplied by 10 between 1998 and 2008. Picasso prices a bit more than 2. It's the same old song. Higher risk with contemporary means potential higher return but potential higher loss as well. Yeah you are right of course art is an investment if you are buying at that level. I guess the point I was trying to make (not very well) was that people are seeing art as a genuine investment alternative to other more natural investment vehicles such as stocks and shares, property, savings products etc. I think there has been a move into broader art investment (and indeed other alternative investments such as wine). This has led to the price rises we have seen recently. It will be interesting to see what happens in the future but I do wonder whether "art investors" will get stung seriously. For that reason I'm not sure it is valid to compare different artists to different types of stocks. Yeah sure maybe modern artists are a safer investment than contemporary artists but to buy art at all on the basis that it is an investment is lunacy. Why invest in an industry that is completely unregulated and a slave to massive swings in the value of items due to fashion and taste? |
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artylang
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by artylang on Mar 17, 2011 18:59:35 GMT 1, Is that all that different from the financial markets? Clearly they are not regulated the way we all seem to think they are.
Just playing devils advocate
Is that all that different from the financial markets? Clearly they are not regulated the way we all seem to think they are.
Just playing devils advocate
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Brushstrokes 75 on Mar 17, 2011 19:04:27 GMT 1, agree with you on that.
But you know that OTC markets are the more lucrative of all. There's no free lunch (no risk, no profit).
But yeah people investing in art massively may not think of it as a short term investment. There's also a purpose of recognition (signs of wealth and culture awareness), beauty (simply)...
I don't know if it's the case as well in the UK but buying art has as well some serious fiscal advantage for people who have high revenues (and/or large estates).
I also think that the base of potential art buyer widen over the last few years. Asia emerged has an important buying market (for anything cultural actually). When you see the range of people buying street art, you'll understand that the game has changed. There's more people interested in Art now than 10 years ago.
agree with you on that.
But you know that OTC markets are the more lucrative of all. There's no free lunch (no risk, no profit).
But yeah people investing in art massively may not think of it as a short term investment. There's also a purpose of recognition (signs of wealth and culture awareness), beauty (simply)...
I don't know if it's the case as well in the UK but buying art has as well some serious fiscal advantage for people who have high revenues (and/or large estates).
I also think that the base of potential art buyer widen over the last few years. Asia emerged has an important buying market (for anything cultural actually). When you see the range of people buying street art, you'll understand that the game has changed. There's more people interested in Art now than 10 years ago.
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by dancingbear on Mar 18, 2011 6:33:57 GMT 1, as art...way overpriced...go down to your local art studios and really look at what you can pick up for the kind of coin...especially for a PRINT.
as an investment...way overpriced. yoou can buy dali prints/etchings for cheaper...although debatable in the long run.
, more people will recognize a dali and the name more than banksy.....
as art...way overpriced...go down to your local art studios and really look at what you can pick up for the kind of coin...especially for a PRINT.
as an investment...way overpriced. yoou can buy dali prints/etchings for cheaper...although debatable in the long run.
, more people will recognize a dali and the name more than banksy.....
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pezlow
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by pezlow on Mar 18, 2011 7:35:46 GMT 1, I wouldnt advise anyone to buy a dali print given the number of dodgy ones out there
I wouldnt advise anyone to buy a dali print given the number of dodgy ones out there
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pezlow
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by pezlow on Mar 18, 2011 7:43:12 GMT 1, Is that all that different from the financial markets? Clearly they are not regulated the way we all seem to think they are. Just playing devils advocate
They are regulated just sometimes that regulation doesn't work
Is that all that different from the financial markets? Clearly they are not regulated the way we all seem to think they are. Just playing devils advocate They are regulated just sometimes that regulation doesn't work |
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johnnyh
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by johnnyh on Mar 18, 2011 9:44:00 GMT 1,
Think the point is that Banksy is Banksy and as with all things it is worth what someone will pay for it- It is also worth noting the fact that his popularity increased is not a bad thing. One should also not confuse enjoying the art without owning it. There are originals obviously but also prints. Why do people collect signed prints - same picture but rarer so worth more regardless. Not only Banksy produces limited amounts.
Think what is more interesting and whether people like it or not the effect that he has had on the art scene and the opportunities he has created for other artists. He has increased the value and collectability of other artists as well. People here saying they are looking at other artists etc. How cool is that. Excellent more artists earn a living and produce stuff.
Your buying emerging artists that may not have emerged if not for him. Thats not to say that they would not be artists etc.
He in a sense has done what wharhol did for pop art.
This happens quite rarely.
So think his work will continue to increase as he is a special artist who has created a lot of limited work.
thre older it gets the older he gets. Work changes as do themes etc. So the prints and messages gone will never be repeated - but the mesages and concepts delivered are still a reflection on that time etc.
Well thats my rant anyway - interesting topic
Think the point is that Banksy is Banksy and as with all things it is worth what someone will pay for it- It is also worth noting the fact that his popularity increased is not a bad thing. One should also not confuse enjoying the art without owning it. There are originals obviously but also prints. Why do people collect signed prints - same picture but rarer so worth more regardless. Not only Banksy produces limited amounts.
Think what is more interesting and whether people like it or not the effect that he has had on the art scene and the opportunities he has created for other artists. He has increased the value and collectability of other artists as well. People here saying they are looking at other artists etc. How cool is that. Excellent more artists earn a living and produce stuff.
Your buying emerging artists that may not have emerged if not for him. Thats not to say that they would not be artists etc.
He in a sense has done what wharhol did for pop art.
This happens quite rarely.
So think his work will continue to increase as he is a special artist who has created a lot of limited work.
thre older it gets the older he gets. Work changes as do themes etc. So the prints and messages gone will never be repeated - but the mesages and concepts delivered are still a reflection on that time etc.
Well thats my rant anyway - interesting topic
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by heathunter881 on Mar 18, 2011 22:44:54 GMT 1, good post. i don't own a Banksy but i do feel his artwork in the secondary market is way overprice. part of it has to do with the hype, and the other part has to do with people willing to pay ridiculous asking prices due to hype. true, he has a wider appeal to newer collectors because his in now, but his style isn't exactly unique. his stencils can easily be imitated, and messages can be expressed similarly. compare banksy's work against Neate or Keyes and you can easily see which artists put more thought in their work.
years from now i still see street art being a major player. no style of art will ever impact the general population the way street art did, and i'm including 3rd world countries too. as newer collectors get into the game, most of them will probably be exposed to street art and then gradually moving towards the contemporary side. so street art will always stay relevant to casual collectors. the more serious collectors usually have a mix of styles in their collection.
i think as time goes on and new artist emerges, banksy's prices will stay pretty much the same. his prices are overpriced now, so i don't see how it can get any higher unless he stops producing. i can't see Nola being worth 10k 10 years from now even though it's a banksy. once people feel his prints are overpriced that's when it'll slip a bit. better images will catch up with other hype prices, but overall i see prices staying about the same. of course if the economy goes back to 03's then everything related to art will climb back up.
good post. i don't own a Banksy but i do feel his artwork in the secondary market is way overprice. part of it has to do with the hype, and the other part has to do with people willing to pay ridiculous asking prices due to hype. true, he has a wider appeal to newer collectors because his in now, but his style isn't exactly unique. his stencils can easily be imitated, and messages can be expressed similarly. compare banksy's work against Neate or Keyes and you can easily see which artists put more thought in their work.
years from now i still see street art being a major player. no style of art will ever impact the general population the way street art did, and i'm including 3rd world countries too. as newer collectors get into the game, most of them will probably be exposed to street art and then gradually moving towards the contemporary side. so street art will always stay relevant to casual collectors. the more serious collectors usually have a mix of styles in their collection.
i think as time goes on and new artist emerges, banksy's prices will stay pretty much the same. his prices are overpriced now, so i don't see how it can get any higher unless he stops producing. i can't see Nola being worth 10k 10 years from now even though it's a banksy. once people feel his prints are overpriced that's when it'll slip a bit. better images will catch up with other hype prices, but overall i see prices staying about the same. of course if the economy goes back to 03's then everything related to art will climb back up.
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Brushstrokes 75 on Mar 18, 2011 23:08:45 GMT 1, Economic & financial cycles apart (the art market being highly correlated to the financial market moves), I don't see Banksy prices go down anytime soon.
He entered the major league and he's also now supported by important collectors. Those collectors don't play the same game than most of us. I'm not speaking directly moneywise but they won't let Banksy prices getting totally cut (I'm speaking major devaluation here).
As a mugrabi who basically sustain any Warhol painting prices, big collectors are going to sustain Banksy's prices not to devaluate the value of their collection.
I'm mostly talking about OG prices, I don't think those collectors are really invested in prints.
Economic & financial cycles apart (the art market being highly correlated to the financial market moves), I don't see Banksy prices go down anytime soon.
He entered the major league and he's also now supported by important collectors. Those collectors don't play the same game than most of us. I'm not speaking directly moneywise but they won't let Banksy prices getting totally cut (I'm speaking major devaluation here).
As a mugrabi who basically sustain any Warhol painting prices, big collectors are going to sustain Banksy's prices not to devaluate the value of their collection.
I'm mostly talking about OG prices, I don't think those collectors are really invested in prints.
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by heathunter881 on Mar 19, 2011 0:10:38 GMT 1, Banksy originals will always be in demand but that's on a different tier. I doubt anyone (or a handful) on this forum can afford an original Banksy.
Banksy originals will always be in demand but that's on a different tier. I doubt anyone (or a handful) on this forum can afford an original Banksy.
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by manty on Mar 19, 2011 0:29:18 GMT 1, Banksy originals will always be in demand but that's on a different tier. I doubt anyone (or a handful) on this forum can afford an original Banksy.
Interesting comment
I think you will find we are all bankers in disguise, except coach who is a Tory politician
Banksy originals will always be in demand but that's on a different tier. I doubt anyone (or a handful) on this forum can afford an original Banksy. Interesting comment I think you will find we are all bankers in disguise, except coach who is a Tory politician |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by bullet on Mar 19, 2011 0:34:02 GMT 1, Banksy originals will always be in demand but that's on a different tier. I doubt anyone (or a handful) on this forum can afford an original Banksy. Interesting comment I think you will find we are all bankers in disguise, except coach who is a Tory politician
That would explain why what he says is always years out of date and has been said many times before then
Banksy originals will always be in demand but that's on a different tier. I doubt anyone (or a handful) on this forum can afford an original Banksy. Interesting comment I think you will find we are all bankers in disguise, except coach who is a Tory politician That would explain why what he says is always years out of date and has been said many times before then |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by manty on Mar 19, 2011 0:36:01 GMT 1, Interesting comment I think you will find we are all bankers in disguise, except coach who is a Tory politician That would explain why what he says is always years out of date and has been said many times before then
Did you say something Gordon?
Interesting comment I think you will find we are all bankers in disguise, except coach who is a Tory politician That would explain why what he says is always years out of date and has been said many times before then Did you say something Gordon? |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by des77 on Mar 19, 2011 0:52:57 GMT 1, Interesting comment I think you will find we are all bankers in disguise, except coach who is a Tory politician That would explain why what he says is always years out of date and has been said many times before then
;D would be nice to know what originals though, rather than editioned canvas's
Interesting comment I think you will find we are all bankers in disguise, except coach who is a Tory politician That would explain why what he says is always years out of date and has been said many times before then ;D would be nice to know what originals though, rather than editioned canvas's |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by naughtyshorty on Mar 19, 2011 3:34:18 GMT 1, so heres a question: everyone keeps saying that banksy is overpriced - but where is the evidence for that? are there any real comparable artists that you can compare banksy to? as a one in a generation artist surely he sets the benchmark. just because his prices are climbing faster than others, does that fact alone make him over priced? or maybe he is just a one off and actually, we are all part of something that has never happened before..
so heres a question: everyone keeps saying that banksy is overpriced - but where is the evidence for that? are there any real comparable artists that you can compare banksy to? as a one in a generation artist surely he sets the benchmark. just because his prices are climbing faster than others, does that fact alone make him over priced? or maybe he is just a one off and actually, we are all part of something that has never happened before..
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by heathunter881 on Mar 19, 2011 5:57:28 GMT 1, so heres a question: everyone keeps saying that banksy is overpriced - but where is the evidence for that? are there any real comparable artists that you can compare banksy to? as a one in a generation artist surely he sets the benchmark. just because his prices are climbing faster than others, does that fact alone make him over priced? or maybe he is just a one off and actually, we are all part of something that has never happened before..
i think that's one thing going for banksy, he was the first to get his name out there. being the first and having a good marketing campaign, people will always look at his work differently. he's almost like Michael Jordan of street art even though there are other all-stars within his field. good marketers will always brainwash followers into thinking they're the best at what they do.
the reason why i think his prints are a bit overpriced is because his secondary market is creeping closer to an og for other less known artist. let say an original canvas from a solid artist runs about 10k. that canvas is likely to be 1/1 whereas Banksy prints usually have a run of 200+ with a few variations, but they sell for about 3-4k on average. it's one thing if a print with a great image sells for half of an og (Nola), but lately prices has gone up a bit more. a great example is the CYW print. let's face it the image is garbage (imo). sure the reference is cool but is spending 4k justifiable? sorry but a cool image shouldn't be valued at 4k. ask someone that doesn't collect Banksy, and ask that person what they think is a good value for his prints. i bet the answer will be less than 2k.
i don't think there's such a thing as a 1 of 1 artist nowadays especially in the digital age with the aid of photoshop. every artist, one way or another, has stolen a technique from another.
so heres a question: everyone keeps saying that banksy is overpriced - but where is the evidence for that? are there any real comparable artists that you can compare banksy to? as a one in a generation artist surely he sets the benchmark. just because his prices are climbing faster than others, does that fact alone make him over priced? or maybe he is just a one off and actually, we are all part of something that has never happened before.. i think that's one thing going for banksy, he was the first to get his name out there. being the first and having a good marketing campaign, people will always look at his work differently. he's almost like Michael Jordan of street art even though there are other all-stars within his field. good marketers will always brainwash followers into thinking they're the best at what they do. the reason why i think his prints are a bit overpriced is because his secondary market is creeping closer to an og for other less known artist. let say an original canvas from a solid artist runs about 10k. that canvas is likely to be 1/1 whereas Banksy prints usually have a run of 200+ with a few variations, but they sell for about 3-4k on average. it's one thing if a print with a great image sells for half of an og (Nola), but lately prices has gone up a bit more. a great example is the CYW print. let's face it the image is garbage (imo). sure the reference is cool but is spending 4k justifiable? sorry but a cool image shouldn't be valued at 4k. ask someone that doesn't collect Banksy, and ask that person what they think is a good value for his prints. i bet the answer will be less than 2k. i don't think there's such a thing as a 1 of 1 artist nowadays especially in the digital age with the aid of photoshop. every artist, one way or another, has stolen a technique from another. |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by dannykj23 on Mar 20, 2011 11:06:31 GMT 1, Some great discussion here ....
Some great discussion here ....
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daveart
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by daveart on Mar 23, 2011 1:31:19 GMT 1, If you were lucky enough to buy a signed Banksy for say $500 eight years ago and it is now worth $8000 you enjoyed - four doubles in 8 years:
$500 start price
$1000 #1
$2000 #2
$4000 #3
$8000 #4
Turning $500 into $8000 is not really that hard. its just that normally it takes forty years or more. (with compounding and a little rounding up for simplicity money doubles every 10 years at 7% interest). What about the next four doubles. Personally.. i find it hard to believe you ever get four more doubles out of a Banksy print.
That would be:
$16,000
$32,000
$64,000
$128,000
Certainly not in the next eight years right. So the fun easy money is out of the Banksy investment game. The question if you are buying for investment is.. how many years to the next double? I would guess it will take more than 10 years and I dont expect to live long enough to see stop and search worth $128,000. so maybe you just say .. if it ever doubles again even if its 30 years.. i am ok with that because i like it. well then its just an asset plodding along at inflation rates and not really an investment.. but so be it.
The most powerful thing is compounding over a long period of time. Not many hard assets pull it off....
Future Value = Principal (1 + rate)^Years
I am sure some math geeks on here can pick this apart .. but in general i think this is pretty good measure of how to value things over a long period of time. bottom line very few hard assets double forever... money lent at an interest rate can because you can lend collect and re lend however many times you want.. which is why its better to be a bank than a borrower.
None of this means bansky is over priced today.. just that in my opinion the price is so high it will be hard for the prints to move higher at a very fast rate.
For anyone needing to figure the future value of their art collection.....
www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm
If you were lucky enough to buy a signed Banksy for say $500 eight years ago and it is now worth $8000 you enjoyed - four doubles in 8 years: $500 start price $1000 #1 $2000 #2 $4000 #3 $8000 #4 Turning $500 into $8000 is not really that hard. its just that normally it takes forty years or more. (with compounding and a little rounding up for simplicity money doubles every 10 years at 7% interest). What about the next four doubles. Personally.. i find it hard to believe you ever get four more doubles out of a Banksy print. That would be: $16,000 $32,000 $64,000 $128,000 Certainly not in the next eight years right. So the fun easy money is out of the Banksy investment game. The question if you are buying for investment is.. how many years to the next double? I would guess it will take more than 10 years and I dont expect to live long enough to see stop and search worth $128,000. so maybe you just say .. if it ever doubles again even if its 30 years.. i am ok with that because i like it. well then its just an asset plodding along at inflation rates and not really an investment.. but so be it. The most powerful thing is compounding over a long period of time. Not many hard assets pull it off.... Future Value = Principal (1 + rate)^Years I am sure some math geeks on here can pick this apart .. but in general i think this is pretty good measure of how to value things over a long period of time. bottom line very few hard assets double forever... money lent at an interest rate can because you can lend collect and re lend however many times you want.. which is why its better to be a bank than a borrower. None of this means bansky is over priced today.. just that in my opinion the price is so high it will be hard for the prints to move higher at a very fast rate. For anyone needing to figure the future value of their art collection..... www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm |
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artylang
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by artylang on Mar 23, 2011 1:56:37 GMT 1, Haha, just like Damien Hirst's market, right? Dude has a retro at the Tate coming up and, like him or not, is and will be one of the most important artists of the last 20 years and the next 100. Doesn't mean jack who backs you. Slow and steady always wins the race, always.
Economic & financial cycles apart (the art market being highly correlated to the financial market moves), I don't see Banksy prices go down anytime soon. He entered the major league and he's also now supported by important collectors. Those collectors don't play the same game than most of us. I'm not speaking directly moneywise but they won't let Banksy prices getting totally cut (I'm speaking major devaluation here). As a mugrabi who basically sustain any Warhol painting prices, big collectors are going to sustain Banksy's prices not to devaluate the value of their collection. I'm mostly talking about OG prices, I don't think those collectors are really invested in prints.
Haha, just like Damien Hirst's market, right? Dude has a retro at the Tate coming up and, like him or not, is and will be one of the most important artists of the last 20 years and the next 100. Doesn't mean jack who backs you. Slow and steady always wins the race, always. Economic & financial cycles apart (the art market being highly correlated to the financial market moves), I don't see Banksy prices go down anytime soon. He entered the major league and he's also now supported by important collectors. Those collectors don't play the same game than most of us. I'm not speaking directly moneywise but they won't let Banksy prices getting totally cut (I'm speaking major devaluation here). As a mugrabi who basically sustain any Warhol painting prices, big collectors are going to sustain Banksy's prices not to devaluate the value of their collection. I'm mostly talking about OG prices, I don't think those collectors are really invested in prints. |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by heathunter881 on Mar 23, 2011 5:10:10 GMT 1, good message daveart. the best investment on a banksy is if you can get it for retail or super early. im not going to lie, i was very close to jumping the gun thinkin he'll be the next warhol or something. but if you step back and factor everything, you'll notice that his valuation has peaked (imo). shoot, the stencil game has been done way before the banksy fame; banksy was the first artist to get real good marketing. regardless, his messages and stencils are still fun to look at though.
like what i said before, good marketing will brainwash folks into thinking different.
good message daveart. the best investment on a banksy is if you can get it for retail or super early. im not going to lie, i was very close to jumping the gun thinkin he'll be the next warhol or something. but if you step back and factor everything, you'll notice that his valuation has peaked (imo). shoot, the stencil game has been done way before the banksy fame; banksy was the first artist to get real good marketing. regardless, his messages and stencils are still fun to look at though.
like what i said before, good marketing will brainwash folks into thinking different.
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Deleted on Mar 23, 2011 7:47:26 GMT 1, If you were lucky enough to buy a signed Banksy for say $500 eight years ago and it is now worth $8000 you enjoyed - four doubles in 8 years: $500 start price $1000 #1 $2000 #2 $4000 #3 $8000 #4 Turning $500 into $8000 is not really that hard. its just that normally it takes forty years or more. (with compounding and a little rounding up for simplicity money doubles every 10 years at 7% interest). What about the next four doubles. Personally.. i find it hard to believe you ever get four more doubles out of a Banksy print. That would be: $16,000 $32,000 $64,000 $128,000 Certainly not in the next eight years right. So the fun easy money is out of the Banksy investment game. The question if you are buying for investment is.. how many years to the next double? I would guess it will take more than 10 years and I dont expect to live long enough to see stop and search worth $128,000. so maybe you just say .. if it ever doubles again even if its 30 years.. i am ok with that because i like it. well then its just an asset plodding along at inflation rates and not really an investment.. but so be it. The most powerful thing is compounding over a long period of time. Not many hard assets pull it off.... Future Value = Principal (1 + rate)^Years I am sure some math geeks on here can pick this apart .. but in general i think this is pretty good measure of how to value things over a long period of time. bottom line very few hard assets double forever... money lent at an interest rate can because you can lend collect and re lend however many times you want.. which is why its better to be a bank than a borrower. None of this means bansky is over priced today.. just that in my opinion the price is so high it will be hard for the prints to move higher at a very fast rate. For anyone needing to figure the future value of their art collection..... www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm
Interesting methodology, is it standard ? Anyway, if you paid $500 8 years ago for a Banksy, it would have been either a Canvas or 1/1.. in which case it'd be closer to $100 000 today. If you bought a signed print at less than $100, then today you'd be looking at realising up to $20k, if you spent $500..again, closer to your 128k than you'd think depending on what you bought. So the 128k is not to far off..
If you were lucky enough to buy a signed Banksy for say $500 eight years ago and it is now worth $8000 you enjoyed - four doubles in 8 years: $500 start price $1000 #1 $2000 #2 $4000 #3 $8000 #4 Turning $500 into $8000 is not really that hard. its just that normally it takes forty years or more. (with compounding and a little rounding up for simplicity money doubles every 10 years at 7% interest). What about the next four doubles. Personally.. i find it hard to believe you ever get four more doubles out of a Banksy print. That would be: $16,000 $32,000 $64,000 $128,000 Certainly not in the next eight years right. So the fun easy money is out of the Banksy investment game. The question if you are buying for investment is.. how many years to the next double? I would guess it will take more than 10 years and I dont expect to live long enough to see stop and search worth $128,000. so maybe you just say .. if it ever doubles again even if its 30 years.. i am ok with that because i like it. well then its just an asset plodding along at inflation rates and not really an investment.. but so be it. The most powerful thing is compounding over a long period of time. Not many hard assets pull it off.... Future Value = Principal (1 + rate)^Years I am sure some math geeks on here can pick this apart .. but in general i think this is pretty good measure of how to value things over a long period of time. bottom line very few hard assets double forever... money lent at an interest rate can because you can lend collect and re lend however many times you want.. which is why its better to be a bank than a borrower. None of this means bansky is over priced today.. just that in my opinion the price is so high it will be hard for the prints to move higher at a very fast rate. For anyone needing to figure the future value of their art collection..... www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htmInteresting methodology, is it standard ? Anyway, if you paid $500 8 years ago for a Banksy, it would have been either a Canvas or 1/1.. in which case it'd be closer to $100 000 today. If you bought a signed print at less than $100, then today you'd be looking at realising up to $20k, if you spent $500..again, closer to your 128k than you'd think depending on what you bought. So the 128k is not to far off.. |
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mattgold
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by mattgold on Mar 23, 2011 23:13:19 GMT 1, If you hope the Banksy 'market' doubles / triples over the next 10-20 years... Then cross your fingers the Chinese take a liking to him.
If you hope the Banksy 'market' doubles / triples over the next 10-20 years... Then cross your fingers the Chinese take a liking to him. |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Daniel Silk on Mar 30, 2011 13:28:04 GMT 1, Do you think Banksy might increase the price he charges for future print releases?
Do you think Banksy might increase the price he charges for future print releases?
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RetroCanvas
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by RetroCanvas on Mar 30, 2011 13:44:09 GMT 1, I don't think so, it will be shocking if he does.
I think the latests pieces have been about right. I suppose he can only do a certain amount to stop 'flipping' and I guess that he does't really care a great deal who makes money off resales. His art is out there and thats his mission.
Just my thoughts though...
Retro
Do you think Banksy might increase the price he charges for future print releases?
I don't think so, it will be shocking if he does. I think the latests pieces have been about right. I suppose he can only do a certain amount to stop 'flipping' and I guess that he does't really care a great deal who makes money off resales. His art is out there and thats his mission. Just my thoughts though... Retro Do you think Banksy might increase the price he charges for future print releases? |
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by Daniel Silk on Mar 30, 2011 13:51:06 GMT 1, Yeah, I dunno really
Lets say he put them up to £950, how do you think that would effect things? would it be a good move?
Yeah, I dunno really Lets say he put them up to £950, how do you think that would effect things? would it be a good move? |
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RetroCanvas
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Banksy Prices Up or Down?, by RetroCanvas on Mar 30, 2011 13:55:45 GMT 1, I guess that it would put it out of the reach of any normal punter. Not many people have a grand to spend on a print. Whether it's a Banksy or not.
I don't think that this is a direction Banksy would go in given the choice.
Do you think he should?
Retro
Yeah, I dunno really Lets say he put them up to £950, how do you think that would effect things? would it be a good move?
I guess that it would put it out of the reach of any normal punter. Not many people have a grand to spend on a print. Whether it's a Banksy or not. I don't think that this is a direction Banksy would go in given the choice. Do you think he should? Retro Yeah, I dunno really Lets say he put them up to £950, how do you think that would effect things? would it be a good move? |
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and the true fans of his work have been left behind and forgotten.
