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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Terry Fuckwitt on Jun 17, 2020 11:42:21 GMT 1, I'm not sure you understand how Banksy works. He's not a business man, he is everything but. Take dismaland for an example, £5 a ticket to gain entry to something that would have cost hundreds of thousands to put together and run for that duration. That ticket price probably just covered the fees for the ticket agents. He could have charged £30 a ticket and still sold out every day. He's a modern day Robin Hood, the wealthy pay for some of us peasants to have a good day out and enjoy a bit of art. I think the can will be limited, but its sold as unlimited, so who knows! I think it's a fuckin great thing to own, it cost the price of two beers, what's not to like. It's a shame it always comes back to the value(£'s) though. ? I'm so confused. This is exactly what I have been saying in my previous posts. - I've said the cost of sale is 1/10th the cost of production, which doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. This supports the idea of him not continuing to produce items EN MASSE at such a loss. I'm not rejecting the fact that he could potentially release more items through GDP but the context was about quantity and scarcity. The question is: Did he make 10? 50? 100? 100,000? 10,000,000? It did say UNLIMITED right?  Well, take a step back and we have to assess the feasibility which is pretty dismal considering the known costs and the reasonably assumed costs. - I also agree that the "Limited" and "Unlimited" designations were probably an irony play by him and that it means nothing. I bet the cans are Limited.
Why do you think the cost of this can was 1/10th the production cost? They were £10 plus postage. It's a used can with a bit of old paint splattered in it which is signed.
Production cost I estimate to be around £0 or maybe even in the minus if he normally pays for them to taken away to landfill.
I'm not sure you understand how Banksy works. He's not a business man, he is everything but. Take dismaland for an example, £5 a ticket to gain entry to something that would have cost hundreds of thousands to put together and run for that duration. That ticket price probably just covered the fees for the ticket agents. He could have charged £30 a ticket and still sold out every day. He's a modern day Robin Hood, the wealthy pay for some of us peasants to have a good day out and enjoy a bit of art. I think the can will be limited, but its sold as unlimited, so who knows! I think it's a fuckin great thing to own, it cost the price of two beers, what's not to like. It's a shame it always comes back to the value(£'s) though. ? I'm so confused. This is exactly what I have been saying in my previous posts. - I've said the cost of sale is 1/10th the cost of production, which doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. This supports the idea of him not continuing to produce items EN MASSE at such a loss. I'm not rejecting the fact that he could potentially release more items through GDP but the context was about quantity and scarcity. The question is: Did he make 10? 50? 100? 100,000? 10,000,000? It did say UNLIMITED right? Well, take a step back and we have to assess the feasibility which is pretty dismal considering the known costs and the reasonably assumed costs. - I also agree that the "Limited" and "Unlimited" designations were probably an irony play by him and that it means nothing. I bet the cans are Limited. Why do you think the cost of this can was 1/10th the production cost? They were £10 plus postage. It's a used can with a bit of old paint splattered in it which is signed. Production cost I estimate to be around £0 or maybe even in the minus if he normally pays for them to taken away to landfill. |
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vyrsace
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by vyrsace on Jun 17, 2020 12:19:49 GMT 1, ? I'm so confused. This is exactly what I have been saying in my previous posts. - I've said the cost of sale is 1/10th the cost of production, which doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. This supports the idea of him not continuing to produce items EN MASSE at such a loss. I'm not rejecting the fact that he could potentially release more items through GDP but the context was about quantity and scarcity. The question is: Did he make 10? 50? 100? 100,000? 10,000,000? It did say UNLIMITED right? Well, take a step back and we have to assess the feasibility which is pretty dismal considering the known costs and the reasonably assumed costs. - I also agree that the "Limited" and "Unlimited" designations were probably an irony play by him and that it means nothing. I bet the cans are Limited. Why do you think the cost of this can was 1/10th the production cost? They were £10 plus postage. It's a used can with a bit of old paint splattered in it which is signed. Production cost I estimate to be around £0 or maybe even in the minus if he normally pays for them to taken away to landfill.
So, I can state as a fact that the out of the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost I paid for out of pocket. When the package was ready I was personally contacted by a person from Flight Logistics to confirm my address and contact information. After I confirmed my address they sent me over a tracking number. Once I received a tracking number I could see it was delivered to a courier outlet and then sent from just west of London to across the world to my house within less than 24 hours: International Priority - Overnight. So, I called customer service of the courier for two reasons: 1.) I wanted them to redirect the package to a courier retail outlet instead of my front door so there would be no mixups and no misses and 2.) I wanted to ask them how much that particular package (tracking number provided) cost them to send to me like that. The answer was that it cost roughly 3.5x what I paid for which was around 55 GBP what I paid for it and it costing around 210 GBP. So that's a fact. With some basic math we can deduct that they paid a 155 GBP differrence to send it to me without compensation. That's SHIPPING ALONE!
Do you think there was only one person at Flight Logistics handling the hundreds packages to package, deliver the packages and communicate with customers?
What about the Gross Domestic Product website sales staff? Was there one person answerings potentially thousands of emails?
What about the over 300,000+ applications they received in 3 days for the and processed.
What about the "comedian" that was listed to determined "tie breaker" submissions?
What do you think the website cost? What kind of a server is it running on? Who administrates the website?
What about Banksy's time and effort?
Regardless of what you believe, the world doesn't run on moods and feelings. At some point, people are getting paid even if the task is menial, if the item is meaningless, and the time is minimal. I think assuming that the production cost was 0 GBP because they are looking at the face value of a linear transaction is an allusion to why people believe all kinds of other funny things about artists and an ignorance to supply chain management practice and it's also no surprise that those same people are not artists themselves.
? I'm so confused. This is exactly what I have been saying in my previous posts. - I've said the cost of sale is 1/10th the cost of production, which doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. This supports the idea of him not continuing to produce items EN MASSE at such a loss. I'm not rejecting the fact that he could potentially release more items through GDP but the context was about quantity and scarcity. The question is: Did he make 10? 50? 100? 100,000? 10,000,000? It did say UNLIMITED right? Well, take a step back and we have to assess the feasibility which is pretty dismal considering the known costs and the reasonably assumed costs. - I also agree that the "Limited" and "Unlimited" designations were probably an irony play by him and that it means nothing. I bet the cans are Limited. Why do you think the cost of this can was 1/10th the production cost? They were £10 plus postage. It's a used can with a bit of old paint splattered in it which is signed. Production cost I estimate to be around £0 or maybe even in the minus if he normally pays for them to taken away to landfill. So, I can state as a fact that the out of the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost I paid for out of pocket. When the package was ready I was personally contacted by a person from Flight Logistics to confirm my address and contact information. After I confirmed my address they sent me over a tracking number. Once I received a tracking number I could see it was delivered to a courier outlet and then sent from just west of London to across the world to my house within less than 24 hours: International Priority - Overnight. So, I called customer service of the courier for two reasons: 1.) I wanted them to redirect the package to a courier retail outlet instead of my front door so there would be no mixups and no misses and 2.) I wanted to ask them how much that particular package (tracking number provided) cost them to send to me like that. The answer was that it cost roughly 3.5x what I paid for which was around 55 GBP what I paid for it and it costing around 210 GBP. So that's a fact. With some basic math we can deduct that they paid a 155 GBP differrence to send it to me without compensation. That's SHIPPING ALONE! Do you think there was only one person at Flight Logistics handling the hundreds packages to package, deliver the packages and communicate with customers? What about the Gross Domestic Product website sales staff? Was there one person answerings potentially thousands of emails? What about the over 300,000+ applications they received in 3 days for the and processed. What about the "comedian" that was listed to determined "tie breaker" submissions? What do you think the website cost? What kind of a server is it running on? Who administrates the website? What about Banksy's time and effort? Regardless of what you believe, the world doesn't run on moods and feelings. At some point, people are getting paid even if the task is menial, if the item is meaningless, and the time is minimal. I think assuming that the production cost was 0 GBP because they are looking at the face value of a linear transaction is an allusion to why people believe all kinds of other funny things about artists and an ignorance to supply chain management practice and it's also no surprise that those same people are not artists themselves. |
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Terry Fuckwitt on Jun 17, 2020 12:31:25 GMT 1, Why do you think the cost of this can was 1/10th the production cost? They were £10 plus postage. It's a used can with a bit of old paint splattered in it which is signed. Production cost I estimate to be around £0 or maybe even in the minus if he normally pays for them to taken away to landfill. So, I can state as a fact that the out of the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost I paid for out of pocket. When the package was ready I was personally contacted by a person from Flight Logistics to confirm my address and contact information. After I confirmed my address they sent me over a tracking number. Once I received a tracking number I could see it was delivered to a courier outlet and then sent from just west of London to across the world to my house within less than 24 hours: International Priority - Overnight. So, I called customer service of the courier for two reasons: 1.) I wanted them to redirect the package to a courier retail outlet instead of my front door so there would be no mixups and no misses and 2.) I wanted to ask them how much that particular package (tracking number provided) cost them to send to me like that. The answer was that it cost roughly 3.5x what I paid for which was around 55 GBP what I paid for it and it costing around 210 GBP. So that's a fact. With some basic math we can deduct that they paid a 155 GBP differrence to send it to me without compensation. That's SHIPPING ALONE! Do you think there was only one person at Flight Logistics handling the hundreds packages to package, deliver the packages and communicate with customers? What about the Gross Domestic Product website sales staff? Was there one person answerings potentially thousands of emails? What about the over 300,000+ applications they received in 3 days for the and processed. What about the "comedian" that was listed to determined "tie breaker" submissions? What do you think the website cost? What kind of a server is it running on? Who administrates the website? What about Banksy's time and effort? Regardless of what you believe, the world doesn't run on moods and feelings. At some point, people are getting paid even if the task is menial, if the item is meaningless, and the time is minimal. I think assuming that the production cost was 0 GBP because they are looking at the face value of a linear transaction is an allusion to why people believe all kinds of other funny things about artists and an ignorance to supply chain management practice and it's also no surprise that those same people are not artists themselves.
Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus.
Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused.
Why do you think the cost of this can was 1/10th the production cost? They were £10 plus postage. It's a used can with a bit of old paint splattered in it which is signed. Production cost I estimate to be around £0 or maybe even in the minus if he normally pays for them to taken away to landfill. So, I can state as a fact that the out of the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost I paid for out of pocket. When the package was ready I was personally contacted by a person from Flight Logistics to confirm my address and contact information. After I confirmed my address they sent me over a tracking number. Once I received a tracking number I could see it was delivered to a courier outlet and then sent from just west of London to across the world to my house within less than 24 hours: International Priority - Overnight. So, I called customer service of the courier for two reasons: 1.) I wanted them to redirect the package to a courier retail outlet instead of my front door so there would be no mixups and no misses and 2.) I wanted to ask them how much that particular package (tracking number provided) cost them to send to me like that. The answer was that it cost roughly 3.5x what I paid for which was around 55 GBP what I paid for it and it costing around 210 GBP. So that's a fact. With some basic math we can deduct that they paid a 155 GBP differrence to send it to me without compensation. That's SHIPPING ALONE! Do you think there was only one person at Flight Logistics handling the hundreds packages to package, deliver the packages and communicate with customers? What about the Gross Domestic Product website sales staff? Was there one person answerings potentially thousands of emails? What about the over 300,000+ applications they received in 3 days for the and processed. What about the "comedian" that was listed to determined "tie breaker" submissions? What do you think the website cost? What kind of a server is it running on? Who administrates the website? What about Banksy's time and effort? Regardless of what you believe, the world doesn't run on moods and feelings. At some point, people are getting paid even if the task is menial, if the item is meaningless, and the time is minimal. I think assuming that the production cost was 0 GBP because they are looking at the face value of a linear transaction is an allusion to why people believe all kinds of other funny things about artists and an ignorance to supply chain management practice and it's also no surprise that those same people are not artists themselves. Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused. |
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vyrsace
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by vyrsace on Jun 17, 2020 12:32:28 GMT 1, www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.artnet.com/exhibitions/banksy-dismaland-30-million-tourism-335447/amp-pageYou would be surprised 5-10 million generated for dismaland alone M T-shirt’s £20 each ,most people buying 4 , Jeff Gillette posters £10 average buying 4 , programme £5 , commission on artists works ,fees from food stands or % of sales , vip prints sold upstairs , the evening party tickets cost more?old pow prints sold in the shop , pumpkin photos £15 each ?. Rental of the lido was free , shrewd businessman No question, it brought in needed money and a boost for WSM. Selling tshirts and programmes etc though were just to help support the show. He did the same for Walled Off Hotel, he's not making money from that either. Selling the VIP prints to the wealthy is the point I was making. By doing that, he can subsidy the other stuff for the normal folk. What I'm trying to say in response to vyrsace saying Banksy can't keep releasing these cans at a loss, well yes he could if he wanted to.
So, this is exactly why I capitalized EN MASSE. It's because I knew the meaning would be lost and it would have been taken out of context. Yes, Banksy is known for doing things out of pocket for the spectacle and for his own amusement, I get that. This is no different in that sense. What I'm saying is he produced this at a significant loss per item when comparing the retail cost versus the production cost and if you apply that to the economy of SCALE when asking the question How many did he make? Well you got to rationalize. Did he make 10? Maybe sure. Did he make.... 50? Okay whatever sure maybe. 1000? Hmmmm 10,000? Hmmm 10,000,000? Unlikely. Unlimited? Probably not. How can I be so arrogant to assume "Unlikely" or "Probably not"? Well again, it's scale man. With each iteration of scale 10^2, 10^3, 10^4, etc. you have to consider how much loss you are willing to take to make your point. If you want to make a point then you can make it but only to a certain limit and then you reach a point of diminishing returns. He might have the means to do it for now and for a bit later but can he do it forever? Can he truly deliver on his UNLIMITED claim? what about deliver on a 100,000 claim? Each item probably cost 500-600 GBP in labor and effort to create based on the factors I listed in the previous post. Do you think he's going to give away millions of dollars every year until infinity? We don't know who he is with a high certainty but I can safely assume hes not on the Forbes or Bloomberg Top 500/5000 list.
Also, Why would someone who has made their point, whatever that might be, continue to do it when it's already been made at a significant loss over and over again? AND Why would he do it if he has nothing to defend in court which is the original reason why he created this store in the first place? Is he going to continue to make stuff because people want to buy so badly? Is it because the website said so? To anyone who knows Banksy as a public figure, he clearly could care less about any of that.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.artnet.com/exhibitions/banksy-dismaland-30-million-tourism-335447/amp-pageYou would be surprised 5-10 million generated for dismaland alone M T-shirt’s £20 each ,most people buying 4 , Jeff Gillette posters £10 average buying 4 , programme £5 , commission on artists works ,fees from food stands or % of sales , vip prints sold upstairs , the evening party tickets cost more?old pow prints sold in the shop , pumpkin photos £15 each ?. Rental of the lido was free , shrewd businessman No question, it brought in needed money and a boost for WSM. Selling tshirts and programmes etc though were just to help support the show. He did the same for Walled Off Hotel, he's not making money from that either. Selling the VIP prints to the wealthy is the point I was making. By doing that, he can subsidy the other stuff for the normal folk. What I'm trying to say in response to vyrsace saying Banksy can't keep releasing these cans at a loss, well yes he could if he wanted to. So, this is exactly why I capitalized EN MASSE. It's because I knew the meaning would be lost and it would have been taken out of context. Yes, Banksy is known for doing things out of pocket for the spectacle and for his own amusement, I get that. This is no different in that sense. What I'm saying is he produced this at a significant loss per item when comparing the retail cost versus the production cost and if you apply that to the economy of SCALE when asking the question How many did he make? Well you got to rationalize. Did he make 10? Maybe sure. Did he make.... 50? Okay whatever sure maybe. 1000? Hmmmm 10,000? Hmmm 10,000,000? Unlikely. Unlimited? Probably not. How can I be so arrogant to assume "Unlikely" or "Probably not"? Well again, it's scale man. With each iteration of scale 10^2, 10^3, 10^4, etc. you have to consider how much loss you are willing to take to make your point. If you want to make a point then you can make it but only to a certain limit and then you reach a point of diminishing returns. He might have the means to do it for now and for a bit later but can he do it forever? Can he truly deliver on his UNLIMITED claim? what about deliver on a 100,000 claim? Each item probably cost 500-600 GBP in labor and effort to create based on the factors I listed in the previous post. Do you think he's going to give away millions of dollars every year until infinity? We don't know who he is with a high certainty but I can safely assume hes not on the Forbes or Bloomberg Top 500/5000 list. Also, Why would someone who has made their point, whatever that might be, continue to do it when it's already been made at a significant loss over and over again? AND Why would he do it if he has nothing to defend in court which is the original reason why he created this store in the first place? Is he going to continue to make stuff because people want to buy so badly? Is it because the website said so? To anyone who knows Banksy as a public figure, he clearly could care less about any of that. |
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vyrsace
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by vyrsace on Jun 17, 2020 12:34:29 GMT 1, So, I can state as a fact that the out of the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost I paid for out of pocket. When the package was ready I was personally contacted by a person from Flight Logistics to confirm my address and contact information. After I confirmed my address they sent me over a tracking number. Once I received a tracking number I could see it was delivered to a courier outlet and then sent from just west of London to across the world to my house within less than 24 hours: International Priority - Overnight. So, I called customer service of the courier for two reasons: 1.) I wanted them to redirect the package to a courier retail outlet instead of my front door so there would be no mixups and no misses and 2.) I wanted to ask them how much that particular package (tracking number provided) cost them to send to me like that. The answer was that it cost roughly 3.5x what I paid for which was around 55 GBP what I paid for it and it costing around 210 GBP. So that's a fact. With some basic math we can deduct that they paid a 155 GBP differrence to send it to me without compensation. That's SHIPPING ALONE! Do you think there was only one person at Flight Logistics handling the hundreds packages to package, deliver the packages and communicate with customers? What about the Gross Domestic Product website sales staff? Was there one person answerings potentially thousands of emails? What about the over 300,000+ applications they received in 3 days for the and processed. What about the "comedian" that was listed to determined "tie breaker" submissions? What do you think the website cost? What kind of a server is it running on? Who administrates the website? What about Banksy's time and effort? Regardless of what you believe, the world doesn't run on moods and feelings. At some point, people are getting paid even if the task is menial, if the item is meaningless, and the time is minimal. I think assuming that the production cost was 0 GBP because they are looking at the face value of a linear transaction is an allusion to why people believe all kinds of other funny things about artists and an ignorance to supply chain management practice and it's also no surprise that those same people are not artists themselves. Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused.
But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't.
So, I can state as a fact that the out of the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost I paid for out of pocket. When the package was ready I was personally contacted by a person from Flight Logistics to confirm my address and contact information. After I confirmed my address they sent me over a tracking number. Once I received a tracking number I could see it was delivered to a courier outlet and then sent from just west of London to across the world to my house within less than 24 hours: International Priority - Overnight. So, I called customer service of the courier for two reasons: 1.) I wanted them to redirect the package to a courier retail outlet instead of my front door so there would be no mixups and no misses and 2.) I wanted to ask them how much that particular package (tracking number provided) cost them to send to me like that. The answer was that it cost roughly 3.5x what I paid for which was around 55 GBP what I paid for it and it costing around 210 GBP. So that's a fact. With some basic math we can deduct that they paid a 155 GBP differrence to send it to me without compensation. That's SHIPPING ALONE! Do you think there was only one person at Flight Logistics handling the hundreds packages to package, deliver the packages and communicate with customers? What about the Gross Domestic Product website sales staff? Was there one person answerings potentially thousands of emails? What about the over 300,000+ applications they received in 3 days for the and processed. What about the "comedian" that was listed to determined "tie breaker" submissions? What do you think the website cost? What kind of a server is it running on? Who administrates the website? What about Banksy's time and effort? Regardless of what you believe, the world doesn't run on moods and feelings. At some point, people are getting paid even if the task is menial, if the item is meaningless, and the time is minimal. I think assuming that the production cost was 0 GBP because they are looking at the face value of a linear transaction is an allusion to why people believe all kinds of other funny things about artists and an ignorance to supply chain management practice and it's also no surprise that those same people are not artists themselves. Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused. But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. |
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irl1
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by irl1 on Jun 17, 2020 12:35:53 GMT 1, vyrsace any chance you might know the lotto numbers for Friday night, I'm looking to buy 6 cans for the family 
vyrsace any chance you might know the lotto numbers for Friday night, I'm looking to buy 6 cans for the family |
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lv90210
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by lv90210 on Jun 17, 2020 12:38:28 GMT 1, Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused. But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't.
Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused. But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. you should write a book, i'd buy it..... |
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irl1
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by irl1 on Jun 17, 2020 12:40:14 GMT 1, Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused. But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't.
But he might now if he reads the numbers some people are throwing around for these.
I'm glad you won and yes I would like one, but people paying over £10k for a signed can ... crazy!
Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused. But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. But he might now if he reads the numbers some people are throwing around for these. I'm glad you won and yes I would like one, but people paying over £10k for a signed can ... crazy! |
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vyrsace
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by vyrsace on Jun 17, 2020 12:40:59 GMT 1, Anyways, I think a lot of people are right. At this point, we're 'beating a dead horse'. So unless anyone has anything else to ask about it specifically then I'll discontinue! The debate was fun and no hard feelings. Cheers!
Anyways, I think a lot of people are right. At this point, we're 'beating a dead horse'. So unless anyone has anything else to ask about it specifically then I'll discontinue! The debate was fun and no hard feelings. Cheers!
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irl1
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by irl1 on Jun 17, 2020 12:41:01 GMT 1, But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. you should write a book, i'd buy it.....
Well he's half way there 
But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. you should write a book, i'd buy it..... Well he's half way there |
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irl1
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by irl1 on Jun 17, 2020 12:44:29 GMT 1, Anyways, I think a lot of people are right. At this point, we're 'beating a dead horse'. So unless anyone has anything else to ask about it specifically then I'll discontinue! The debate was fun and no hard feelings. Cheers!
Aw please don't go we love you
Anyways, I think a lot of people are right. At this point, we're 'beating a dead horse'. So unless anyone has anything else to ask about it specifically then I'll discontinue! The debate was fun and no hard feelings. Cheers! Aw please don't go we love you |
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Forbidden Love on Jun 17, 2020 12:46:00 GMT 1, But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. But he might now if he reads the numbers some people are throwing around for these. I'm glad you won and yes I would like one, but people paying over £10k for a signed can ... crazy!
who has paid over £10k. how many have been resold? you seem to have all this info.
But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. But he might now if he reads the numbers some people are throwing around for these. I'm glad you won and yes I would like one, but people paying over £10k for a signed can ... crazy! who has paid over £10k. how many have been resold? you seem to have all this info. |
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vyrsace
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by vyrsace on Jun 17, 2020 12:48:59 GMT 1, Anyways, I think a lot of people are right. At this point, we're 'beating a dead horse'. So unless anyone has anything else to ask about it specifically then I'll discontinue! The debate was fun and no hard feelings. Cheers! Aw please don't go we love you
Haha I'm not leaving the world or deleting the Internet. What do I look like? some emo incel teenager who is angry at the world and society? lol The debate/discussion on this is pretty much over and there's not much valuable information to be shared at this point since we are going on tangents about generalized history and so forth. I actually am finding it fun to participate with an art community and more specifically a community about one of my favorite artists so it's a pleasure and if I have other things to talk about in regards to that then I know exactly where to come and who to ask
Anyways, I think a lot of people are right. At this point, we're 'beating a dead horse'. So unless anyone has anything else to ask about it specifically then I'll discontinue! The debate was fun and no hard feelings. Cheers! Aw please don't go we love you Haha I'm not leaving the world or deleting the Internet. What do I look like? some emo incel teenager who is angry at the world and society? lol The debate/discussion on this is pretty much over and there's not much valuable information to be shared at this point since we are going on tangents about generalized history and so forth. I actually am finding it fun to participate with an art community and more specifically a community about one of my favorite artists so it's a pleasure and if I have other things to talk about in regards to that then I know exactly where to come and who to ask |
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irl1
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by irl1 on Jun 17, 2020 12:53:26 GMT 1, But he might now if he reads the numbers some people are throwing around for these. I'm glad you won and yes I would like one, but people paying over £10k for a signed can ... crazy! who has paid over £10k. how many have been resold? you seem to have all this info.
But he might now if he reads the numbers some people are throwing around for these. I'm glad you won and yes I would like one, but people paying over £10k for a signed can ... crazy! who has paid over £10k. how many have been resold? you seem to have all this info. These are the prices being thrown around for these. If I knew who it was you can be sure I'd have less art |
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Terry Fuckwitt on Jun 17, 2020 12:56:43 GMT 1, Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused. But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't.
Nothing to stop him selling these at £200 each and they would be snapped up in the thousands. He would make some money and the fans would be happy.
Point is, they are sold as 'unlimited'. You/we can speculate on whether they are or not all day long. If this can was put into an auction house, they would have to sell it as it is 'unlimited'.
I love Banksy, I like the way he fucks with us! Just when you think you got him sussed he flips it on its head.
Those extra costs have been offset by the prints they have been selling at £20k plus. Banksy is a very nice fella, offering these little collector items to some fans at such a small fee. It's just a shame it sometimes gets abused. But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. Nothing to stop him selling these at £200 each and they would be snapped up in the thousands. He would make some money and the fans would be happy. Point is, they are sold as 'unlimited'. You/we can speculate on whether they are or not all day long. If this can was put into an auction house, they would have to sell it as it is 'unlimited'. I love Banksy, I like the way he fucks with us! Just when you think you got him sussed he flips it on its head. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 13:44:59 GMT 1, I have read so many words and learned nothing apart from the banksy spray can is called Banksy Black
Maybe that's enough?
I do feel cheated though
I have read so many words and learned nothing apart from the banksy spray can is called Banksy Black
Maybe that's enough?
I do feel cheated though
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Forbidden Love on Jun 17, 2020 13:48:49 GMT 1, But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. Nothing to stop him selling these at £200 each and they would be snapped up in the thousands. He would make some money and the fans would be happy. Point is, they are sold as 'unlimited'. You/we can speculate on whether they are or not all day long. If this can was put into an auction house, they would have to sell it as it is 'unlimited'. I love Banksy, I like the way he fucks with us! Just when you think you got him sussed he flips it on its head.
I dont think he wouldve done this to 'fuck with collectors'. A auction house would not put 'unlimited' as the edition. if it was unlimited you would be able to go get one.
But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. Nothing to stop him selling these at £200 each and they would be snapped up in the thousands. He would make some money and the fans would be happy. Point is, they are sold as 'unlimited'. You/we can speculate on whether they are or not all day long. If this can was put into an auction house, they would have to sell it as it is 'unlimited'. I love Banksy, I like the way he fucks with us! Just when you think you got him sussed he flips it on its head. I dont think he wouldve done this to 'fuck with collectors'. A auction house would not put 'unlimited' as the edition. if it was unlimited you would be able to go get one. |
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drip
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February 2015
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by drip on Jun 17, 2020 13:50:46 GMT 1, Mrs Banksy: Why are you crying, hun? Is it perspective again?
Banksy: I just thought I'd have a look on the art forum.
Mrs Banksy: Did they like your latest work, sweetie?
Banksy: ......I............I dunno?
Mrs Banksy: Well, what are they saying?
Banksy: ......I..............I dunno?
Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy?
Banksy: .......
Mrs Banksy: Why are you crying, hun? Is it perspective again?
Banksy: I just thought I'd have a look on the art forum.
Mrs Banksy: Did they like your latest work, sweetie?
Banksy: ......I............I dunno?
Mrs Banksy: Well, what are they saying?
Banksy: ......I..............I dunno?
Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy?
Banksy: .......
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drip
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by drip on Jun 17, 2020 14:02:01 GMT 1, I have read so many words and learned nothing apart from the banksy spray can is called Banksy Black Maybe that's enough? I do feel cheated though
*hug*
I have read so many words and learned nothing apart from the banksy spray can is called Banksy Black Maybe that's enough? I do feel cheated though What if the blackness was inside us all along? In our hearts. *hug* |
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Terry Fuckwitt on Jun 17, 2020 14:05:08 GMT 1, Nothing to stop him selling these at £200 each and they would be snapped up in the thousands. He would make some money and the fans would be happy. Point is, they are sold as 'unlimited'. You/we can speculate on whether they are or not all day long. If this can was put into an auction house, they would have to sell it as it is 'unlimited'. I love Banksy, I like the way he fucks with us! Just when you think you got him sussed he flips it on its head. I dont think he wouldve done this to 'f**kwith collectors'. A auction house would not put 'unlimited' as the edition. if it was unlimited you would be able to go get one.
What would an auction house have written in the description then?
Also, could you send me a link to buy one of those soup can posters please😉
Nothing to stop him selling these at £200 each and they would be snapped up in the thousands. He would make some money and the fans would be happy. Point is, they are sold as 'unlimited'. You/we can speculate on whether they are or not all day long. If this can was put into an auction house, they would have to sell it as it is 'unlimited'. I love Banksy, I like the way he fucks with us! Just when you think you got him sussed he flips it on its head. I dont think he wouldve done this to 'f**kwith collectors'. A auction house would not put 'unlimited' as the edition. if it was unlimited you would be able to go get one. What would an auction house have written in the description then? Also, could you send me a link to buy one of those soup can posters please😉 |
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Forbidden Love on Jun 17, 2020 14:07:05 GMT 1, Nothing, it’s just unnumbered.
Nothing, it’s just unnumbered.
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Terry Fuckwitt on Jun 17, 2020 14:08:28 GMT 1, Nothing, it’s just unnumbered.
So why are they sold as 'unlimited'?
Nothing, it’s just unnumbered. So why are they sold as 'unlimited'? |
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irl1
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by irl1 on Jun 17, 2020 14:08:32 GMT 1, I sometimes wonder whether, during a sober and conscious moment, Banksy takes a quick look at this place, to see how his work is being received. Do you think he hears the Muppet Show music in his head while he's doing it? Mrs Banksy: Did they like you latest work, sweetie? Banksy:........I............I dunno? Mrs Banksy: Well, what are they saying? Banksy:.......I..............I dunno? Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy? Banksy:......
Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy?
Banksy; Should hope so their getting a s*** lot more money than I got
I sometimes wonder whether, during a sober and conscious moment, Banksy takes a quick look at this place, to see how his work is being received. Do you think he hears the Muppet Show music in his head while he's doing it? Mrs Banksy: Did they like you latest work, sweetie? Banksy:........I............I dunno? Mrs Banksy: Well, what are they saying? Banksy:.......I..............I dunno? Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy? Banksy:...... Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy? Banksy; Should hope so their getting a s*** lot more money than I got |
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Terry Fuckwitt on Jun 17, 2020 14:13:56 GMT 1, I sometimes wonder whether, during a sober and conscious moment, Banksy takes a quick look at this place, to see how his work is being received. Do you think he hears the Muppet Show music in his head while he's doing it? Mrs Banksy: Did they like you latest work, sweetie? Banksy:........I............I dunno? Mrs Banksy: Well, what are they saying? Banksy:.......I..............I dunno? Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy? Banksy:...... Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy? Banksy; Should hope so their getting a s*** lot more money than I got
Mrs Banksy: don't worry love, while you busy sorting out the gdp store, I set up my own website selling art.
Banksy: but you're not an artist.
Mrs Banksy: I know, but I found some of your old stencils in the shed and thought I could give it a go.
Banksy: are you fuckin joking?
I sometimes wonder whether, during a sober and conscious moment, Banksy takes a quick look at this place, to see how his work is being received. Do you think he hears the Muppet Show music in his head while he's doing it? Mrs Banksy: Did they like you latest work, sweetie? Banksy:........I............I dunno? Mrs Banksy: Well, what are they saying? Banksy:.......I..............I dunno? Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy? Banksy:...... Mrs Banksy: Well are they happy? Banksy; Should hope so their getting a s*** lot more money than I got Mrs Banksy: don't worry love, while you busy sorting out the gdp store, I set up my own website selling art. Banksy: but you're not an artist. Mrs Banksy: I know, but I found some of your old stencils in the shed and thought I could give it a go. Banksy: are you fuckin joking? |
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art4all
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by art4all on Jun 17, 2020 14:29:51 GMT 1, But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. you should write a book, i'd buy it..... 
But that's exactly my point in which you implied.. to "some" fans not a million or a trillion or unlimited or infinite. That's simply the point of what I was trying to get across and that's he probably didn't make alot of them although HE COULD, he probably didn't. you should write a book, i'd buy it..... I would consider buying it too, but only if it is a signed and limited edition |
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lv90210
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by lv90210 on Jun 17, 2020 14:52:05 GMT 1, you should write a book, i'd buy it..... I would consider buying it too, but only if it is a signed and limited edition
you should write a book, i'd buy it..... I would consider buying it too, but only if it is a signed and limited edition BOOM BOOM ! |
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Greg
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Greg on Jun 17, 2020 15:27:33 GMT 1, I would not be surprised if they were just painted by members of a team. Similar to the wall sculptures produced at the Walled Off Hotel.
Then potentially each item vetted and given the thumbs up to sell by Banksy/team.
I would still love one and i am super jealous of anyone who picked one up
I would not be surprised if they were just painted by members of a team. Similar to the wall sculptures produced at the Walled Off Hotel.
Then potentially each item vetted and given the thumbs up to sell by Banksy/team.
I would still love one and i am super jealous of anyone who picked one up
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by barbagianni on Jun 17, 2020 18:47:45 GMT 1, It’s lovely how this is worth so much that people will hang on to it until they get old. Welcome to the forum, I think you will find from this thread that quite a few have changed hands..... Thanks, and I know it was a bit subtle, but that was exactly what I wanted to the say.
It’s lovely how this is worth so much that people will hang on to it until they get old. Welcome to the forum, I think you will find from this thread that quite a few have changed hands..... Thanks, and I know it was a bit subtle, but that was exactly what I wanted to the say.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 13:42:02 GMT 1, Smartest comment on this thread by far
So, I think everyone here brings up a good point. It's true with ANYTHING in the art world, even beyond the scope of Banksy, that its hard to establish a going price on that of which you do not know. While I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, I believe there are really only two ways to systematically justify a market price for an art item. 1.) You sell it to a widely known, advertised, and participated auction (or multiple less known auctions) and have it sell with a reasonably deducted Starting Bid with all information laid out to each prospective bidder so they are as educated as possible to do so. An auction of this nature provides a highly competitive environment and creates a healthy amount of pressure and stakes to make a decision instead of constant deliberation and re-deliberation as most art deal discussions tend to resort back to. 2.) Invest the time and take a big survey from "qualified" participants with a large/significant sample size over a confined predetermined amount of time. By "qualified" I mean people who are deemed sincere and genuine in their intentions to purchase that item. Unless one of these two circumstances have occurred then no one can confidently arrive to any definitive conclusion on an accurate market price. So niceguyg touches specifically on 3 good points (he states 4 but #3 and #4 are essentially the same): 1) No Certificate of Authenticity (CoA) 2) No edition size 3) Easy to fake after a few years in circulation My response to that in the context of Banksy Black is this: 1.) As a current owner of a Banksy Black, I will say that it first states that you will get a CoA after 2 years after the date of purchase. This date will vary for each purchaser due to each person completing their purchases at different times. I believe there was a 1 week period in which you were offered and had to complete it or it would expire, after which it would be thrown into a pool of items that were offered to applicants who were "next in line". This next offer is considered the 'Second Phase' of offers. These offers were given by a stand email template and the purchasing process was similar: fill out your credit card details and receive a purchase confirmation email afterward. So, depending on the date, they will get a CoA. Now I've been personally assured by multiple sources that they will just automatically send you a CoA via email or postal mail. However, I happen to have specific email correspondence that I asked them (GDP Sales) if I could receive one if I moved addresses and they said yes no problem and that I could either contact them (Sales GDP) OR Pest Control. So I believe the CoA is imminent although I recognize that this circumstance can change immediately thereafter. What's to hold back GDP, Pest Control or Banksy from saying "nah, We don't do CoAs any more"? Nothing. Is there any recourse? Nope. So nothing is ever truly guaranteed until the moment occurs and passes. Life lesson there for you. 2.) I recognize how important this detail can be. It's true and completely accurate that the Banksy Black comes with no serial or edition number that is specific to the line of Banksy Blacks. It does come with an, what you may call, "edition" number stating your "order" number. Everyone who successfully completed an order with GDP was given an order number that was in the low 1000 mark. However, this includes people who have also ordered any other item from GDP such as the clock, Banksquait, the matt, etc. etc. So it doesn't reveal exactly how many Banksy Blacks there were and which one this is. All you can do is compare your order number with others that you find that have posted publically. The lower the number, the more closer you are to being the first. I'm sure over time people will create a public list of established order numbers and what items were associated with that. Currently, I have seen 5 other Banksy Blacks than my own. I have spoken to most of those owners personally and we have compared pictures, information and such and they all attest they will NEVER sell and yes, they have received multiple big offers. Personally, I believe he made 20. He could have made 50? Now the question is, How many could he have made MAX in this first run? Well, I'll tell you this. The cost of the can plus the shipping was less than ONE THIRD the cost it cost them to send to me. So let's flip that around. It cost them 3.5x to courier it to me than what I paid. I confirmed this by calling the courier and providing them my tracking number and then asking them the cost. And that's with just their cost on shipping ALONE. That's not including the logistics company (Flight Logistics) they paid to handle the shipments and packaging which were absolutely world-class (they personally communicate to you, the packaging was extremely deliberate and carefully put together and was insanely secure). That's not including the production value costs such as actually making it, the costs of the GDP staff and website, and that's also not including his time. So I would assume the costs of a Banksy Black are close to 100x the original cost of the item (not including the shipping as that can vary from destination to destination). How does that make sense? Why would someone sell any item for ANY business of any industry at an extremely significant loss? Sure, Banksy probably has quite a bit of money to fund this and other projects but do you think anyone with the mind and intelligence of Banksy would continue to produce items en masse at a loss until he depletes his own wealth? It literally makes no sense. I bet you he paid a million dollars or more out of his own pocket in order to fund this first run. So you think he's going to produce more items so he can lose more millions until the end of day? I would argue not. Also, another point is that prospective buyers hinge on the idea that he will release more and/or new items through GDP as stated/implied on their website. Okay guys, if you are a true and genuine Banksy fan, you have been following his state of affairs for some while and know clearly the intent and purpose of GDP. The purpose of GDP was to defend his trademark in the EU which was attempted at being stolen by a greeting card company. The greeting card company argued that he doesn't deserve his trademark because he does not use it which is a stipulation required by EU law in order to keep your trademark. If Banksy wanted to open a store and sell his items for profit (going "mainstream") then he would have done so in the last 20-30 years, nothing was stopping him. The disclaimer on the front of the GDP site is most likely to show 'face' and intent in regards to the law but he probably has no real plans to actually bring this store to scale. Do you really think he's hired a global marketing and sales team? Do you think he's trying to establish a materials procurement deal or a global supply chain management infrastructure? He would certainly have to if he wanted to at least break even or eventually turn a profit, which I am telling you I have proof that he is not. Again, it just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint and it doesn't make sense from his own personal identity standpoint either. Let's play devil's advocate and say he did reopen the store, which may happen due to continuous drawn-out court deliberations (common in the EU). There is no guarantee that he will re-release the items that were sold/produced on the first run. They might be completely different items. He would not be contractually bound to any obligations to fulfill that expectation. I also feel that each item and their description was extremely well thought of and deliberate even to the point of the quantity. For those that know Banksy, he is very critical and cynical about the reception of art as a commodity. So, to me, it makes sense that there is an irony and some humor in that the items that were listed as low/limited quantity were actually the opposite, as well as the unlimited ones actually being limited. Nothing obliges him to commit to any predetermined arbitrary quantity/stock. In summary, I believe there are at max 20 with the current rate of public postings but could be as high as 50. I don't seriously believe using the logic listed above that there are 1000s of these as it would not be realistic or feasible with any means. 3.) Well I agree with that. In fact, it's one of the reasons why I chose the Banksy Black versus the shirt or the mug or the clock. ANYONE can make a mug. ANYONE can make a shirt. I think the Banksy Black is a little more charismatic but albeit it is a simple item. I am no artist either but I can't imagine a professional would have a hard time producing this at a high quality given enough points of reference. Now with that said, I have been approached by many prospective buyers and the theme of the conversation is the same in that they want not only the product itself but are interested in the original packaging AND the email correspondence AND are interested in the CoA (which I'll remind you, is due 2 years after the date and they are aware of that). So in order to sell at a proper price, you would have to produce all of those factors. Can those be imitated as well? The packaging, yes. The email correspondence, yes. The CoA, I'm not sure but I assume no because aside from the physical piece, it can also be verified by Pest Control. However, the courier information can also be independently verified from the Sender (Flight Logistics to Original Purchaser). Payment records could be validated and confirmed as they were done online and via credit card. So, there's ways to mitigate this but I think this also it depends on the buyer. If the buyer is impulsive and hasn't paid due diligence then its not just a Banksy Black they should be worried about, its about all art sales as they can all be faked at some point and sold at high risk. If you do a quick search on the Dead Sea Scrolls, you'll find that the "Museum of the Bible" in Washington D.C., recently discovered some of their dead sea scrolls were fakes! So there is associated risk in every piece of work and not just the Banksy Black. If you are worried the value of it will diminish because a bunch of people own counterfeits and are flaunting them around, well that's your prerogative but if that was a common sentiment then no retail brand in the world would retain their value for long like Louis Vuitton for a simple example. In summary, the concern of fakes depends on the buyer's due diligence and not the integrity of the product itself. Anyways, I'm done ranting for now. I've been doing a lot of this lately with all this hype about the Banksy Black and people reaching out to me. Cheers! You wrote an essay to justify the value of a spray can. You really did. Fml.
Smartest comment on this thread by far So, I think everyone here brings up a good point. It's true with ANYTHING in the art world, even beyond the scope of Banksy, that its hard to establish a going price on that of which you do not know. While I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, I believe there are really only two ways to systematically justify a market price for an art item. 1.) You sell it to a widely known, advertised, and participated auction (or multiple less known auctions) and have it sell with a reasonably deducted Starting Bid with all information laid out to each prospective bidder so they are as educated as possible to do so. An auction of this nature provides a highly competitive environment and creates a healthy amount of pressure and stakes to make a decision instead of constant deliberation and re-deliberation as most art deal discussions tend to resort back to. 2.) Invest the time and take a big survey from "qualified" participants with a large/significant sample size over a confined predetermined amount of time. By "qualified" I mean people who are deemed sincere and genuine in their intentions to purchase that item. Unless one of these two circumstances have occurred then no one can confidently arrive to any definitive conclusion on an accurate market price. So niceguyg touches specifically on 3 good points (he states 4 but #3 and #4 are essentially the same): 1) No Certificate of Authenticity (CoA) 2) No edition size 3) Easy to fake after a few years in circulation My response to that in the context of Banksy Black is this: 1.) As a current owner of a Banksy Black, I will say that it first states that you will get a CoA after 2 years after the date of purchase. This date will vary for each purchaser due to each person completing their purchases at different times. I believe there was a 1 week period in which you were offered and had to complete it or it would expire, after which it would be thrown into a pool of items that were offered to applicants who were "next in line". This next offer is considered the 'Second Phase' of offers. These offers were given by a stand email template and the purchasing process was similar: fill out your credit card details and receive a purchase confirmation email afterward. So, depending on the date, they will get a CoA. Now I've been personally assured by multiple sources that they will just automatically send you a CoA via email or postal mail. However, I happen to have specific email correspondence that I asked them (GDP Sales) if I could receive one if I moved addresses and they said yes no problem and that I could either contact them (Sales GDP) OR Pest Control. So I believe the CoA is imminent although I recognize that this circumstance can change immediately thereafter. What's to hold back GDP, Pest Control or Banksy from saying "nah, We don't do CoAs any more"? Nothing. Is there any recourse? Nope. So nothing is ever truly guaranteed until the moment occurs and passes. Life lesson there for you. 2.) I recognize how important this detail can be. It's true and completely accurate that the Banksy Black comes with no serial or edition number that is specific to the line of Banksy Blacks. It does come with an, what you may call, "edition" number stating your "order" number. Everyone who successfully completed an order with GDP was given an order number that was in the low 1000 mark. However, this includes people who have also ordered any other item from GDP such as the clock, Banksquait, the matt, etc. etc. So it doesn't reveal exactly how many Banksy Blacks there were and which one this is. All you can do is compare your order number with others that you find that have posted publically. The lower the number, the more closer you are to being the first. I'm sure over time people will create a public list of established order numbers and what items were associated with that. Currently, I have seen 5 other Banksy Blacks than my own. I have spoken to most of those owners personally and we have compared pictures, information and such and they all attest they will NEVER sell and yes, they have received multiple big offers. Personally, I believe he made 20. He could have made 50? Now the question is, How many could he have made MAX in this first run? Well, I'll tell you this. The cost of the can plus the shipping was less than ONE THIRD the cost it cost them to send to me. So let's flip that around. It cost them 3.5x to courier it to me than what I paid. I confirmed this by calling the courier and providing them my tracking number and then asking them the cost. And that's with just their cost on shipping ALONE. That's not including the logistics company (Flight Logistics) they paid to handle the shipments and packaging which were absolutely world-class (they personally communicate to you, the packaging was extremely deliberate and carefully put together and was insanely secure). That's not including the production value costs such as actually making it, the costs of the GDP staff and website, and that's also not including his time. So I would assume the costs of a Banksy Black are close to 100x the original cost of the item (not including the shipping as that can vary from destination to destination). How does that make sense? Why would someone sell any item for ANY business of any industry at an extremely significant loss? Sure, Banksy probably has quite a bit of money to fund this and other projects but do you think anyone with the mind and intelligence of Banksy would continue to produce items en masse at a loss until he depletes his own wealth? It literally makes no sense. I bet you he paid a million dollars or more out of his own pocket in order to fund this first run. So you think he's going to produce more items so he can lose more millions until the end of day? I would argue not. Also, another point is that prospective buyers hinge on the idea that he will release more and/or new items through GDP as stated/implied on their website. Okay guys, if you are a true and genuine Banksy fan, you have been following his state of affairs for some while and know clearly the intent and purpose of GDP. The purpose of GDP was to defend his trademark in the EU which was attempted at being stolen by a greeting card company. The greeting card company argued that he doesn't deserve his trademark because he does not use it which is a stipulation required by EU law in order to keep your trademark. If Banksy wanted to open a store and sell his items for profit (going "mainstream") then he would have done so in the last 20-30 years, nothing was stopping him. The disclaimer on the front of the GDP site is most likely to show 'face' and intent in regards to the law but he probably has no real plans to actually bring this store to scale. Do you really think he's hired a global marketing and sales team? Do you think he's trying to establish a materials procurement deal or a global supply chain management infrastructure? He would certainly have to if he wanted to at least break even or eventually turn a profit, which I am telling you I have proof that he is not. Again, it just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint and it doesn't make sense from his own personal identity standpoint either. Let's play devil's advocate and say he did reopen the store, which may happen due to continuous drawn-out court deliberations (common in the EU). There is no guarantee that he will re-release the items that were sold/produced on the first run. They might be completely different items. He would not be contractually bound to any obligations to fulfill that expectation. I also feel that each item and their description was extremely well thought of and deliberate even to the point of the quantity. For those that know Banksy, he is very critical and cynical about the reception of art as a commodity. So, to me, it makes sense that there is an irony and some humor in that the items that were listed as low/limited quantity were actually the opposite, as well as the unlimited ones actually being limited. Nothing obliges him to commit to any predetermined arbitrary quantity/stock. In summary, I believe there are at max 20 with the current rate of public postings but could be as high as 50. I don't seriously believe using the logic listed above that there are 1000s of these as it would not be realistic or feasible with any means. 3.) Well I agree with that. In fact, it's one of the reasons why I chose the Banksy Black versus the shirt or the mug or the clock. ANYONE can make a mug. ANYONE can make a shirt. I think the Banksy Black is a little more charismatic but albeit it is a simple item. I am no artist either but I can't imagine a professional would have a hard time producing this at a high quality given enough points of reference. Now with that said, I have been approached by many prospective buyers and the theme of the conversation is the same in that they want not only the product itself but are interested in the original packaging AND the email correspondence AND are interested in the CoA (which I'll remind you, is due 2 years after the date and they are aware of that). So in order to sell at a proper price, you would have to produce all of those factors. Can those be imitated as well? The packaging, yes. The email correspondence, yes. The CoA, I'm not sure but I assume no because aside from the physical piece, it can also be verified by Pest Control. However, the courier information can also be independently verified from the Sender (Flight Logistics to Original Purchaser). Payment records could be validated and confirmed as they were done online and via credit card. So, there's ways to mitigate this but I think this also it depends on the buyer. If the buyer is impulsive and hasn't paid due diligence then its not just a Banksy Black they should be worried about, its about all art sales as they can all be faked at some point and sold at high risk. If you do a quick search on the Dead Sea Scrolls, you'll find that the "Museum of the Bible" in Washington D.C., recently discovered some of their dead sea scrolls were fakes! So there is associated risk in every piece of work and not just the Banksy Black. If you are worried the value of it will diminish because a bunch of people own counterfeits and are flaunting them around, well that's your prerogative but if that was a common sentiment then no retail brand in the world would retain their value for long like Louis Vuitton for a simple example. In summary, the concern of fakes depends on the buyer's due diligence and not the integrity of the product itself. Anyways, I'm done ranting for now. I've been doing a lot of this lately with all this hype about the Banksy Black and people reaching out to me. Cheers! You wrote an essay to justify the value of a spray can. You really did. Fml. |
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Banksy Black Spray Can, Gross Domestic Product™, by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 13:57:13 GMT 1, Am I the only one thinking these posts are way too long? And your analysis on the value of the object makes no sense. Who the f**** cares the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost you paid of out of pocket. Is this your first piece of art? Just display and enjoy it, luck box, and stop speculating with useless assumptions on how much it is valued. No one cares and mr B might just change all your plans because he decides to.
And stop sending these longs posts, confinement is over, go out and make friends.
Why do you think the cost of this can was 1/10th the production cost? They were £10 plus postage. It's a used can with a bit of old paint splattered in it which is signed. Production cost I estimate to be around £0 or maybe even in the minus if he normally pays for them to taken away to landfill. So, I can state as a fact that the out of the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost I paid for out of pocket. When the package was ready I was personally contacted by a person from Flight Logistics to confirm my address and contact information. After I confirmed my address they sent me over a tracking number. Once I received a tracking number I could see it was delivered to a courier outlet and then sent from just west of London to across the world to my house within less than 24 hours: International Priority - Overnight. So, I called customer service of the courier for two reasons: 1.) I wanted them to redirect the package to a courier retail outlet instead of my front door so there would be no mixups and no misses and 2.) I wanted to ask them how much that particular package (tracking number provided) cost them to send to me like that. The answer was that it cost roughly 3.5x what I paid for which was around 55 GBP what I paid for it and it costing around 210 GBP. So that's a fact. With some basic math we can deduct that they paid a 155 GBP differrence to send it to me without compensation. That's SHIPPING ALONE! Do you think there was only one person at Flight Logistics handling the hundreds packages to package, deliver the packages and communicate with customers? What about the Gross Domestic Product website sales staff? Was there one person answerings potentially thousands of emails? What about the over 300,000+ applications they received in 3 days for the and processed. What about the "comedian" that was listed to determined "tie breaker" submissions? What do you think the website cost? What kind of a server is it running on? Who administrates the website? What about Banksy's time and effort? Regardless of what you believe, the world doesn't run on moods and feelings. At some point, people are getting paid even if the task is menial, if the item is meaningless, and the time is minimal. I think assuming that the production cost was 0 GBP because they are looking at the face value of a linear transaction is an allusion to why people believe all kinds of other funny things about artists and an ignorance to supply chain management practice and it's also no surprise that those same people are not artists themselves.
Am I the only one thinking these posts are way too long? And your analysis on the value of the object makes no sense. Who the f**** cares the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost you paid of out of pocket. Is this your first piece of art? Just display and enjoy it, luck box, and stop speculating with useless assumptions on how much it is valued. No one cares and mr B might just change all your plans because he decides to. And stop sending these longs posts, confinement is over, go out and make friends. Why do you think the cost of this can was 1/10th the production cost? They were £10 plus postage. It's a used can with a bit of old paint splattered in it which is signed. Production cost I estimate to be around £0 or maybe even in the minus if he normally pays for them to taken away to landfill. So, I can state as a fact that the out of the pocket cost was 3.5x the cost I paid for out of pocket. When the package was ready I was personally contacted by a person from Flight Logistics to confirm my address and contact information. After I confirmed my address they sent me over a tracking number. Once I received a tracking number I could see it was delivered to a courier outlet and then sent from just west of London to across the world to my house within less than 24 hours: International Priority - Overnight. So, I called customer service of the courier for two reasons: 1.) I wanted them to redirect the package to a courier retail outlet instead of my front door so there would be no mixups and no misses and 2.) I wanted to ask them how much that particular package (tracking number provided) cost them to send to me like that. The answer was that it cost roughly 3.5x what I paid for which was around 55 GBP what I paid for it and it costing around 210 GBP. So that's a fact. With some basic math we can deduct that they paid a 155 GBP differrence to send it to me without compensation. That's SHIPPING ALONE! Do you think there was only one person at Flight Logistics handling the hundreds packages to package, deliver the packages and communicate with customers? What about the Gross Domestic Product website sales staff? Was there one person answerings potentially thousands of emails? What about the over 300,000+ applications they received in 3 days for the and processed. What about the "comedian" that was listed to determined "tie breaker" submissions? What do you think the website cost? What kind of a server is it running on? Who administrates the website? What about Banksy's time and effort? Regardless of what you believe, the world doesn't run on moods and feelings. At some point, people are getting paid even if the task is menial, if the item is meaningless, and the time is minimal. I think assuming that the production cost was 0 GBP because they are looking at the face value of a linear transaction is an allusion to why people believe all kinds of other funny things about artists and an ignorance to supply chain management practice and it's also no surprise that those same people are not artists themselves. |
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