Banksy Love Rat Print

[hungrig]

admin said:

abcollings said:

/index.cgi?board=general

As Beejoir says bring it over to (Above link) You will get the answers you need

Ben at POW is the ONLY person that can say for sure anything else is just guess work really

Not quite.

My view is that this kind of categoric statement should be avoided; without qualification, it is simply incorrect.

Not a big deal for this particular thread, but the risk is that other posts with such blanket statements are taken at face value by forumers with less experience in all things Banksy. There is therefore the potential that they make decisions (such as buying a print) on the basis of information which is only partly accurate. The result, of course, would not necessarily be a happy one.

Others at POW, aside from Ben, would be able to say for sure whether the 'Love Rat' print is genuine. I know for a fact that at least one such person is active on the Wall Candy Forum posted above. I concur with Beejoir and ABC. They really know their stuff on that Forum.

[gm]

Size is exactly 33 1\2 cm x 50cm

Thought the pic of yours looked a bit longer and thinner than mine, which is exactly 34.9 x 50mm

No watermark or anything on the paper other than the POW stamp and number (and the sig).

Also the blob above the rat's tail looks slightly less noticeable on yours than mine.

Here's a really crap picture* of mine when it used to live happily in a clip frame, until you lot scared me, so now it lives wrapped in tissue somewhere safe and flat and where I can't get to it while me back's dodgy, so I can't check whether the stamp is ...printmaking or ... dot com.




*originally taken on a camera phone from a larger picture with the rat in the background - I've had to crop and enlarge the rat bit, which is why it's such shite quality. Sorry can't really be of more help.

[artyfarty]

Dear All

Thanks again for all your help and here's the reply from Ben at POW

"The paper used for the love rats has no water marks, so I would say it is a fake, would you send it to me some I can have a look, if you include the details of who you bought it from and how they described it when selling it, I will get in touch with them. When I have finished with it I will return it to you, special delivery so it won’t get lost in the post.
Sorry about your bad news but hopefully we can get your money back and stop this person from doing this again."

I'll update with his comments when he sees it.

[Montubu7]

Thats nice of them @ Pow!

[corblimeylimey]

artyfarty said:

Dear All

Thanks again for all your help and here's the reply from Ben at POW

"The paper used for the love rats has no water marks, so I would say it is a fake, would you send it to me some I can have a look, if you include the details of who you bought it from and how they described it when selling it, I will get in touch with them. When I have finished with it I will return it to you, special delivery so it won’t get lost in the post.
Sorry about your bad news but hopefully we can get your money back and stop this person from doing this again."

I'll update with his comments when he sees it.

Can't say fairer than that.
POW maybe disorganised and frustrating at times but you can't fault their aftersales service.

[arcam]

thomas said:

Thats nice of them @ Pow!

That's really good of them. Nice one Ben that's brilliant.

[Daniel Silk]

artyfarty said:

Dear All

Thanks again for all your help and here's the reply from Ben at POW

"The paper used for the love rats has no water marks, so I would say it is a fake, would you send it to me some I can have a look, if you include the details of who you bought it from and how they described it when selling it, I will get in touch with them. When I have finished with it I will return it to you, special delivery so it won’t get lost in the post.
Sorry about your bad news but hopefully we can get your money back and stop this person from doing this again."

I'll update with his comments when he sees it.

Ben's a top bloke! ;D

Sorry about the bad news

[Vsix]

That is bad news!!.

Now everyone will worry about some of the Love Rats that previously been sold through ebay, it seems like quite a few have always been available!!. Luckily the watermark gives it away! Lets hope that this has been discovered early enough before more get onto the market.

I think we're all going to have to be even more dilligent when puchasing Banksy prints on the Ebay etc.

[numusic]

Anyone know the number on this print, or the ebay listing item number ?

[Vsix]

I wonder if it was this one!! it was bought in the states!!

cgi.ebay.com/BANKSY-LOVE-RAT-NUMBERED-AND-STAMPED_W0QQitemZ230120797814QQihZ013QQcategoryZ360QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[numusic]

that's the one, cheers and respect

[tclem13]

This is the original ebay number 190083292015. I was the original purchaser and then sold it recently to fund another purchase. I had no idea until recently that it may be fake. I've been in contact with the buyer and currently the print is on the way to POW for inspection from Ben. Two things fishy when I originally received the print:

1. It says in the auction that it was bought from POW but the
receipt comes from Art Republic. After I contacted POW to confirm if they have this seller as the purchaser, they did not. The seller then provided me with an artrepublic invoice and claimed to have gotten them mixed up.

2. The picture is of number 81 and I received 62. The seller claimed a mix up again.

The seller seemed very nice and didn't appear to be out to con me. But, after I recently sold it on to fund another purchase, it appears I may have been wrong. As the buyer noticed the watermark and inquired into it. If it is a fake it is a darn good one. I have contacted the seller of the original auction and he says he will refund my money and I in turn will refund the buyer of my auction money after im receive it back.

I hope for everyones sake that it turns out to be real. I guess we will see what happens.

[Vsix]

It looks like the original seller was not totally honest. Lets hope this is resolved quickly!

[Daniel Silk]

tclem13 said:

1. It says in the auction that it was bought from POW but the
receipt comes from Art Republic. After I contacted POW to confirm if they have this seller as the purchaser, they did not. The seller then provided me with an artrepublic invoice and claimed to have gotten them mixed up.

Yeah, if a print comes from ArtRepublic, POW should have it on record as being sold to Artrepublic, but Artrepublic as far as I know dont keep records of who buys what from them.

Could all still be ok

[arcam]

tclem13 said:

2. The picture is of number 81 and I received 62. The seller claimed a mix up again.

The seller 'clearly' advertised print number 81, he even went to the effort of taking a close up picture of the number. That should have set alarm bells ringing, I am amazed you didn't sent it back.

[gm]

gm said:

Size is exactly 33 1\2 cm x 50cm

Thought the pic of yours looked a bit longer and thinner than mine, which is exactly 34.9 x 50mm

Of course, I meant cm

Why can't I edit my posts any more? Is it just me, or everyone?

[tclem13]

I know...I know. I guess the excitement of getting what I thought was a legit "Love Rat" allowed me to overlook the print number issue. Has anyone purchased a print from Artrepublic? I have the alleged original invoice, it has the sellers name, address, item description, etc. Is this normal? When I first received the print, I compared it to the description on the forum and all looked fine with it. Again..I guess we'll see what POW says.

Another strange thing is that two days ago when I learned it may be a fake, I emailed the original seller telling him the jig was up and asked for a refund. He replied quickly and said no problem. I would imagine if this guy is selling fakes he wouldn't have been so accommodating.

[Daniel Silk]

gm said:

gm said:

Thought the pic of yours looked a bit longer and thinner than mine, which is exactly 34.9 x 50mm

Of course, I meant cm

Why can't I edit my posts any more? Is it just me, or everyone?

Hi gm ;D You can only edit your post for 30 minutes after you posted it Sorry, but I was forced to introduce that ages ago, coz one member threatened to go round and delete everything they had ever posted

[zippyblip]

tclem13 said:

I know...I know. I guess the excitement of getting what I thought was a legit "Love Rat" allowed me to overlook the print number issue. Has anyone purchased a print from Artrepublic? I have the alleged original invoice, it has the sellers name, address, item description, etc. Is this normal? When I first received the print, I compared it to the description on the forum and all looked fine with it. Again..I guess we'll see what POW says.

Another strange thing is that two days ago when I learned it may be a fake, I emailed the original seller telling him the jig was up and asked for a refund. He replied quickly and said no problem. I would imagine if this guy is selling fakes he wouldn't have been so accommodating.

Hi- i purchased a grin reaper from ArtRepublic last year - I'm certain its an original and I would be very surprised if a fake made it through them...I know not everyone here is a fan but if the providence of the pieces they sell came into question they would be in big trouble quickly.

I have the invoice from Artrepublic and can post if that'll help you out?

[tclem13]

Does your invoice give the print number? The invoice I got from the seller did not have the print number, just the print decription. I would post a pic of it, but it has the sellers ALLEGED name, address and email on it. Since it's not known if it's fake yet, I won't blow up his spot like that.

[corblimeylimey]

I bought a Jack & Jill from Art republic in July last year, on my invoice it has the description - Banksy 'Jack & Jill' silkscreen print limited edition 2**/350, my name and telephone numbers are on the invoice but not my address. Other info is the date, consultant name and total price my invoice number is 502** (don't want to give too much info away but it gives you an idea of the number as of 20/7/06)

[gm]

admin said:

gm said:

Of course, I meant cm

Why can't I edit my posts any more? Is it just me, or everyone?

Hi gm ;D You can only edit your post for 30 minutes after you posted it Sorry, but I was forced to introduce that ages ago, coz one member threatened to go round and delete everything they had ever posted

Let me guess who...

Thanks for the explanation, but don't people have the right to delete stuff that they no longer want on public view? What if it was for a good reason, not a hissy fit? I suppose you'd have to do the business in that case, if they asked you to.

I have before deleted all my own posts from certain forums during hissy fits, so I'm not really one to judge anyway... but there's also been a few good reasons for me having to delete something or other.

I can see both sides here. I mod on another forum and hate having to delete other people's posts, but will do so if they ask, and allow them to if they want to.

[artyfarty]

Dear All

Just got this reply back from Ben at POW - bad news, but thanks for all of your help.

"Hi Andrew
Its here safely and unfortunately it is a fake, we are trying to find out some more information about it, so would like to keep it for a while. If you need it back just let me know and I will make sure it gets back to you.
Sorry about the bad news,
ben"

[corblimeylimey]

That isn't good news, how many more out there? must be a few, it's too much trouble to just get one done.

How will you sort this out Andrew?

[tclem13]

Andrew has no problem. Since Andrew purchased it from me and I purchased it from a wanker who sells fake sh*t. I'm gonna give Andrew his money back once I get my wonderful fake print back in hands. Then the "Wanker who sells fake sh*t" said he would refund my money if I send it back to him. Unfortunately, I have not received an email response from him since I told him it was being shipped to POW for inspection. So I have a feeling I'm gonna get stuck with it. Oh well. Live and learn. Sucks to have to eat $1000.

[beejoir1]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm fishy.

[arcam]

tclem13 said:

Andrew has no problem. Since Andrew purchased it from me and I purchased it from a wanker who sells fake sh*t. I'm gonna give Andrew his money back once I get my wonderful fake print back in hands. Then the "Wanker who sells fake sh*t" said he would refund my money if I send it back to him. Unfortunately, I have not received an email response from him since I told him it was being shipped to POW for inspection. So I have a feeling I'm gonna get stuck with it. Oh well. Live and learn. Sucks to have to eat $1000.

How did you pay him? If it's credit card you'll have some protection.

This is bad news.

[tclem13]

Look guys. Anyone thinking I'm fishy or something, I'm not out to rip anyone off. I'm a solid ebayer with alot of feedback and history. I'm a banksy forum member and have never been about hiding. I'm taking this one on the chin and will refund Andrew his money once I receive the print back. Even though it's fake I paid alot of money for it and the image is still cool. Hopefully, the Ass I bought it from will refund me. But, if not, I was taken for a ride and considered a fool. I wouldn't pass that onto someone else. The loss will end with me.

Here is the chain of ebay transaction numbers for anyone to see. My user name is everette66. I have the fake invoice the seller provided as well as lots of email correspondence showing the complete trail.

1. 190083292015
2. 230120797814

I paid by paypal. Paypal has protection BUT, you have to file a complaint within 45 days. I originally purchased the print Feb 21, 2007, longer than 45 days so I'm basically f'ed if the seller decides to just ignore me. But, in order to have a paypal account you do have to provide some legit information (I believe) regarding bank accounts, etc. So if he ignores me I'll probably press charges against him and take it to small claims court, just to f with him. This freakin sucks!!!!

If anything this situation poses a real problem for anyone buying prints off the bay or anywhere for that case. This seller provided me with an invoice (obviously fake) but it looked real. I even zoomed in as far as possible on the document to see if I could see some sign of tampering (cut & paste, etc.). Receipts and POW stamps just aren't enough on the older prints. You need to have POW confirmation. The print even had a POW stamp that looked real official (raised, same size, evrything). And the image itself was silk screened. The only give away was the watermark on the paper that I didn't even notice.

[jam]

If you paid VIA paypal and the finds came from a credit card, call the company and dispute the charges. Regardless of Paypal's terms, you can cancel that charge!

[hungrig]

tclem13 said:

I'm taking this one on the chin and will refund Andrew his money once I receive the print back.

tclem13,

Thanks for being so upfront about this issue. Much appreciated. You deserve a lot of credit for that; it would have been very easy for you simply to hide away.

Regarding your comment about receiving the print back, I hope you will not object if Ben at POW or the person you on-sold it to marks it with the word "Fake".

This may be necessary in order to eliminate the risk that the print is re-sold at a later date to someone else believing it to be genuine. Given this fake also has a very convincing blindstamp, I believe that clearly labelling it as such would be in the interest of everyone (other than potential fraudsters).