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Banksy Love Rat Print, by beejoir1 on Apr 30, 2007 20:46:09 GMT 1, Got a photo of the water mark?
Got a photo of the water mark?
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hungrig
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by hungrig on Apr 30, 2007 20:46:14 GMT 1, If it's fake, it must be one of the first fakes ever. There have been som "back door prints", tributes, and prints, but no fakes, I think. Definitevely the first with a stamp. Worrying.
Indeed, HankPank.
This is very worrying. It can completely undermine people's trust that a Banksy print is authentic on the basis of a POW stamp and edition number.
If someone has gone to the trouble of faking a blindstamp, then everyone here should be concerned. Any doubt as to the genuineness of some stamped Banksy prints will cast a shadow of suspicion over all other prints, including the real ones.
Although we love our art for the sake of art, it is also an investment - the amount of time, effort and cash many of us have put into building up a Banksy collection is not to be underestimated.
Speaking from a purely financial perspective for a moment, if the confidence of buyers and potential buyers is rattled by a load of credible stamped fakes flooding the Banksy market, this will result in a significant drop in the value of our collections. Now, some here will laugh with glee. I suspect that many others will be truly saddened.
Those who have not got bullet-proof provenance for all their Banksy prints should especially take note. This will include everyone who did not keep their receipts from years ago, or who bought prints on eBay or traded with others when provenance was not nearly as much of a concern. Probably a good 80% of us.
I look forward to seeing the photos of this print, and the blindstamp in particular.
If it's fake, it must be one of the first fakes ever. There have been som "back door prints", tributes, and prints, but no fakes, I think. Definitevely the first with a stamp. Worrying. Indeed, HankPank. This is very worrying. It can completely undermine people's trust that a Banksy print is authentic on the basis of a POW stamp and edition number. If someone has gone to the trouble of faking a blindstamp, then everyone here should be concerned. Any doubt as to the genuineness of some stamped Banksy prints will cast a shadow of suspicion over all other prints, including the real ones. Although we love our art for the sake of art, it is also an investment - the amount of time, effort and cash many of us have put into building up a Banksy collection is not to be underestimated. Speaking from a purely financial perspective for a moment, if the confidence of buyers and potential buyers is rattled by a load of credible stamped fakes flooding the Banksy market, this will result in a significant drop in the value of our collections. Now, some here will laugh with glee. I suspect that many others will be truly saddened. Those who have not got bullet-proof provenance for all their Banksy prints should especially take note. This will include everyone who did not keep their receipts from years ago, or who bought prints on eBay or traded with others when provenance was not nearly as much of a concern. Probably a good 80% of us. I look forward to seeing the photos of this print, and the blindstamp in particular. |
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ABC
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by ABC on Apr 30, 2007 20:48:00 GMT 1, Ive just looked at mine (numbered In the 300s) and the stamp is (POW printmaking) stamp. Also the paper is not white, its more like recycled paper greyish looking Like TM. Is the paper white or is that just the photo?. Without seeing in the flesh its hard to say 100 percent but if its white paper then its wrong
Ive just looked at mine (numbered In the 300s) and the stamp is (POW printmaking) stamp. Also the paper is not white, its more like recycled paper greyish looking Like TM. Is the paper white or is that just the photo?. Without seeing in the flesh its hard to say 100 percent but if its white paper then its wrong
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ABC
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by ABC on Apr 30, 2007 20:48:32 GMT 1,
The tail is fine
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by Run Pig Run on Apr 30, 2007 20:50:48 GMT 1, when you look at those photos and 'magnify' them they don't look to bad actually.......good fake if it is.
real one here on egay.......... tinyurl.com/2jdx9y
when you look at those photos and 'magnify' them they don't look to bad actually.......good fake if it is. real one here on egay.......... tinyurl.com/2jdx9y |
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by artyfarty on Apr 30, 2007 20:52:32 GMT 1, more pics coming...give me 5 mins
more pics coming...give me 5 mins
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by beejoir1 on Apr 30, 2007 20:53:38 GMT 1, when you look at those photos and 'magnify' them they don't look to bad actually.......good fake if it is. real one here on egay.......... tinyurl.com/2jdx9y
SOLD OUT BANKSY LOVE RAT PRINT. PURCHASED DURECTLY FROM POW
Cornish as well!!!
Anyway, if its got a water mark.... it stinks! Simple!
As for the flood of fakes I would not worry too much, it would be hard to fake EVERY aspect of the print!
when you look at those photos and 'magnify' them they don't look to bad actually.......good fake if it is. real one here on egay.......... tinyurl.com/2jdx9ySOLD OUT BANKSY LOVE RAT PRINT. PURCHASED DURECTLY FROM POW Cornish as well!!! Anyway, if its got a water mark.... it stinks! Simple! As for the flood of fakes I would not worry too much, it would be hard to fake EVERY aspect of the print! |
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by Run Pig Run on Apr 30, 2007 20:55:40 GMT 1, If it's fake, it must be one of the first fakes ever. There have been som "back door prints", tributes, and prints, but no fakes, I think. Definitevely the first with a stamp. Worrying. Indeed, HankPank. This is very worrying. It can completely undermine people's trust that a Banksy print is authentic on the basis of a POW stamp and edition number. If someone has gone to the trouble of faking a blindstamp, then everyone here should be concerned. Any doubt as to the genuineness of some stamped Banksy prints will cast a shadow of suspicion over all other prints, including the real ones. Although we love our art for the sake of art, it is also an investment - the amount of time, effort and cash many of us have put into building up a Banksy collection is not to be underestimated. Speaking from a purely financial perspective for a moment, if the confidence of buyers and potential buyers is rattled by a load of credible stamped fakes flooding the Banksy market, this will result in a significant drop in the value of our collections. Now, some here will laugh with glee. I suspect that many others will be truly saddened. Those who have not got bullet-proof provenance for all their Banksy prints should especially take note. This will include everyone who did not keep their receipts from years ago, or who bought prints on eBay or traded with others when provenance was not nearly as much of a concern. Probably a good 80% of us. I look forward to seeing the photos of this print, and the blindstamp in particular.
provenance will never be a problem if you wanted to cheat someone. just get an old email from POW -pandas rock- anything, paste it into word, change the date, time and print to signed laugh now or whatever. print it out and hey presto!
99% of the time the buyer wouldn't bother contacting POW to confirm.
If it's fake, it must be one of the first fakes ever. There have been som "back door prints", tributes, and prints, but no fakes, I think. Definitevely the first with a stamp. Worrying. Indeed, HankPank. This is very worrying. It can completely undermine people's trust that a Banksy print is authentic on the basis of a POW stamp and edition number. If someone has gone to the trouble of faking a blindstamp, then everyone here should be concerned. Any doubt as to the genuineness of some stamped Banksy prints will cast a shadow of suspicion over all other prints, including the real ones. Although we love our art for the sake of art, it is also an investment - the amount of time, effort and cash many of us have put into building up a Banksy collection is not to be underestimated. Speaking from a purely financial perspective for a moment, if the confidence of buyers and potential buyers is rattled by a load of credible stamped fakes flooding the Banksy market, this will result in a significant drop in the value of our collections. Now, some here will laugh with glee. I suspect that many others will be truly saddened. Those who have not got bullet-proof provenance for all their Banksy prints should especially take note. This will include everyone who did not keep their receipts from years ago, or who bought prints on eBay or traded with others when provenance was not nearly as much of a concern. Probably a good 80% of us. I look forward to seeing the photos of this print, and the blindstamp in particular. provenance will never be a problem if you wanted to cheat someone. just get an old email from POW -pandas rock- anything, paste it into word, change the date, time and print to signed laugh now or whatever. print it out and hey presto! 99% of the time the buyer wouldn't bother contacting POW to confirm. |
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ABC
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by ABC on Apr 30, 2007 21:02:38 GMT 1, Done it before Bombhugger?
Done it before Bombhugger?
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by hankpank on Apr 30, 2007 21:03:50 GMT 1, The numbering is correct out of 600, not 100. If it's fake it's really good. I'm sitting with my framed, signed "dot com"-stamped Love Rat beside me and wonder how many stains there are at the end of the tail. One big and three small om mine. Could you get close-ups of that part, the right part of the tail and the upper part of the rat's left (our right) arm?
The numbering is correct out of 600, not 100. If it's fake it's really good. I'm sitting with my framed, signed "dot com"-stamped Love Rat beside me and wonder how many stains there are at the end of the tail. One big and three small om mine. Could you get close-ups of that part, the right part of the tail and the upper part of the rat's left (our right) arm?
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by artyfarty on Apr 30, 2007 21:05:46 GMT 1, Size is exactly 33 1\2 cm x 50cm
Size is exactly 33 1\2 cm x 50cm
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by beejoir1 on Apr 30, 2007 21:08:09 GMT 1, The screen is easy to knock up, I would not worry about that, its one thing that you could not fail on, and even if you did, every prints different!
Its still that water mark thats got me vexed, it should be the same paper as the virgin mary!
If not it might just be paper from the end of the roll, hence the water mark, but if its thin without flecks and nothing like the VM paper, I'd get my cash back.
Ask these guys though...... they REALLY know their shit....
/index.cgi?board=general
The screen is easy to knock up, I would not worry about that, its one thing that you could not fail on, and even if you did, every prints different!
Its still that water mark thats got me vexed, it should be the same paper as the virgin mary!
If not it might just be paper from the end of the roll, hence the water mark, but if its thin without flecks and nothing like the VM paper, I'd get my cash back.
Ask these guys though...... they REALLY know their shit....
/index.cgi?board=general
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ABC
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by ABC on Apr 30, 2007 21:09:09 GMT 1, They look a little better but it would be good to check with POW as they will be the older ones and the stamp must have changed during the run (Nothing to worry about its happened on other prints) Love rat hung around on POW for a long time before selling out.
They look a little better but it would be good to check with POW as they will be the older ones and the stamp must have changed during the run (Nothing to worry about its happened on other prints) Love rat hung around on POW for a long time before selling out.
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by hankpank on Apr 30, 2007 21:23:44 GMT 1, The stamp looks a bit big. It is 31 mm in diameter and the distance from the bottom edge to the rat is 52 mm on mine.
The stamp looks a bit big. It is 31 mm in diameter and the distance from the bottom edge to the rat is 52 mm on mine.
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hungrig
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by hungrig on Apr 30, 2007 21:28:04 GMT 1, Cheers, artyfarty.
From the photos provided, the 'Love Rat' print and blindstamp actually look ok to me, but my concern relates to the paper used. [Although query why someone would go to the trouble of faking a print and blindstamp but not a signature.]
I don't think we on this Forum can, categorically and with 100% certainty, say that your print is a fake. It would be unwise to do so.
There were a total of 750 of these prints (150 signed and 600 unsigned) in the proper editions. They were not all printed at the same time. I have seen different colour variations for the heart, in red and orange. Perhaps that was just Ben experimenting with different colours, or perhaps POW ran out of one ink and used another. If POW could run out of ink (and, remember, it's a small operation), it is not impossible that POW could momentarily run out of the catridge paper they would normally use for this print.
Ben would know for certain. I suggest you contact him at POW with all the relevant details and photos.
Cheers, artyfarty.
From the photos provided, the 'Love Rat' print and blindstamp actually look ok to me, but my concern relates to the paper used. [Although query why someone would go to the trouble of faking a print and blindstamp but not a signature.]
I don't think we on this Forum can, categorically and with 100% certainty, say that your print is a fake. It would be unwise to do so.
There were a total of 750 of these prints (150 signed and 600 unsigned) in the proper editions. They were not all printed at the same time. I have seen different colour variations for the heart, in red and orange. Perhaps that was just Ben experimenting with different colours, or perhaps POW ran out of one ink and used another. If POW could run out of ink (and, remember, it's a small operation), it is not impossible that POW could momentarily run out of the catridge paper they would normally use for this print.
Ben would know for certain. I suggest you contact him at POW with all the relevant details and photos.
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by snakes on Apr 30, 2007 21:31:38 GMT 1, Didnt the unsigned ones have the blind stamp on the left hand side of the print, whilst the signes ones were on the right?
Although the one on ebay puts this one out as its stamp is on the right hand side too!
Didnt the unsigned ones have the blind stamp on the left hand side of the print, whilst the signes ones were on the right?
Although the one on ebay puts this one out as its stamp is on the right hand side too!
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ABC
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by ABC on Apr 30, 2007 21:34:49 GMT 1, My stamp is on the Left but that doesnt mean a lot Im sure i could be on either side depending when and who did them
My stamp is on the Left but that doesnt mean a lot Im sure i could be on either side depending when and who did them
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ABC
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by ABC on Apr 30, 2007 21:36:05 GMT 1, /index.cgi?board=general
As Beejoir says bring it over to (Above link) You will get the answers you need
/index.cgi?board=general
As Beejoir says bring it over to (Above link) You will get the answers you need
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Strange Al
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by Strange Al on Apr 30, 2007 21:37:49 GMT 1, I'm not going to comment on this particular print - there's little to add that hasn't already been said. As others have suggested, contact POW and see what they say.
Though, I think we all have to accept that there will come a time at some point in the future when there is sufficient return in the market for people to start producing near perfect Banksy fakes (perhaps that point has already arrived).
Compared to other works of art, forging a two colour POW screen-print is one of the simplest artworks to copy. Professional forgers are knocking out copies of renaissance paintings which experts can't tell apart. There's no doubt these individuals could knock out a fake Banksy print with little difficulty. The effort may not be worth it for a £500 print or even £1000 print, but with signed Banksy's now reaching £10,000s there's much more incentive.
Take the amount of Warhol fakes in the market, many of which are indistinguishable from the real thing. The problem has become so bad that a Warhol Authentication Board has been set up. Maybe one day we'll see the same for Banksy's works. I'm sure there are a few members on this forum and on the Wall Candy forum, who'd be front of the queue to join the board.
I'm not going to comment on this particular print - there's little to add that hasn't already been said. As others have suggested, contact POW and see what they say.
Though, I think we all have to accept that there will come a time at some point in the future when there is sufficient return in the market for people to start producing near perfect Banksy fakes (perhaps that point has already arrived).
Compared to other works of art, forging a two colour POW screen-print is one of the simplest artworks to copy. Professional forgers are knocking out copies of renaissance paintings which experts can't tell apart. There's no doubt these individuals could knock out a fake Banksy print with little difficulty. The effort may not be worth it for a £500 print or even £1000 print, but with signed Banksy's now reaching £10,000s there's much more incentive.
Take the amount of Warhol fakes in the market, many of which are indistinguishable from the real thing. The problem has become so bad that a Warhol Authentication Board has been set up. Maybe one day we'll see the same for Banksy's works. I'm sure there are a few members on this forum and on the Wall Candy forum, who'd be front of the queue to join the board.
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by hankpank on Apr 30, 2007 21:39:19 GMT 1, I have one signed bought in 2004 and one unsigned from 2006. The colour of the heart is a bit different between the two, but the details are almost identical. If you can put up some pix even more close up I can at least say if yours doesn't have the same detail. Don't stop now, I love these detective things.
My signed has the "dot-com"-stamp on the left and the unsigned has the "printmaking"-stamp also on the left.
I have one signed bought in 2004 and one unsigned from 2006. The colour of the heart is a bit different between the two, but the details are almost identical. If you can put up some pix even more close up I can at least say if yours doesn't have the same detail. Don't stop now, I love these detective things.
My signed has the "dot-com"-stamp on the left and the unsigned has the "printmaking"-stamp also on the left.
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by Daniel Silk on Apr 30, 2007 21:40:31 GMT 1, /index.cgi?board=general As Beejoir says bring it over to (Above link) You will get the answers you need
Ben at POW is the ONLY person that can say for sure  anything else is just guess work really 
/index.cgi?board=general As Beejoir says bring it over to (Above link) You will get the answers you need Ben at POW is the ONLY person that can say for sure anything else is just guess work really |
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stuey09
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by stuey09 on Apr 30, 2007 21:41:22 GMT 1, Hard to argue with you on that Josh. 
Hard to argue with you on that Josh. |
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by hankpank on Apr 30, 2007 21:42:07 GMT 1, Agreed Silky, but more or less educated guess work.
I will not be able to say if it's fake or not, but i will be able to tell if it differs significantly from my two that is bought one and a half years apart.
Agreed Silky, but more or less educated guess work.
I will not be able to say if it's fake or not, but i will be able to tell if it differs significantly from my two that is bought one and a half years apart.
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by Daniel Silk on Apr 30, 2007 21:42:27 GMT 1, I have one signed bought in 2004 and one unsigned from 2006. The colour of the heart is a bit different between the two, but the details are almost identical. If you can put up some pix even more close up I can at least say if yours doesn't have the same detail. Don't stop now, I love these detective things. My signed has the "dot-com"-stamp on the left and the unsigned has the "printmaking"-stamp also on the left.
Yeah, thats right! they did part of the run with a more pinky colour heart.
I have one signed bought in 2004 and one unsigned from 2006. The colour of the heart is a bit different between the two, but the details are almost identical. If you can put up some pix even more close up I can at least say if yours doesn't have the same detail. Don't stop now, I love these detective things. My signed has the "dot-com"-stamp on the left and the unsigned has the "printmaking"-stamp also on the left. Yeah, thats right! they did part of the run with a more pinky colour heart. |
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hungrig
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by hungrig on Apr 30, 2007 21:46:37 GMT 1, Didnt the unsigned ones have the blind stamp on the left hand side of the print, whilst the signes ones were on the right? Although the one on ebay puts this one out as its stamp is on the right hand side too!
No - There wasn't any consistency as to the location of the blindstamp, other than it being at the bottom-right or bottom-left of the print. That location could differ even for prints stamped by the same person; it depended on their mood and how hung over they were.
Someone even had a print with the edition number written upside-down. Call it part of the POW charm.
Didnt the unsigned ones have the blind stamp on the left hand side of the print, whilst the signes ones were on the right? Although the one on ebay puts this one out as its stamp is on the right hand side too! No - There wasn't any consistency as to the location of the blindstamp, other than it being at the bottom-right or bottom-left of the print. That location could differ even for prints stamped by the same person; it depended on their mood and how hung over they were. Someone even had a print with the edition number written upside-down. Call it part of the POW charm. |
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by Daniel Silk on Apr 30, 2007 21:51:31 GMT 1, I have seen a POW print stamped twice  once in both bottom corners ;D
And a print with the stamp in one corner, and the number in the other
I have seen a POW print stamped twice once in both bottom corners ;D And a print with the stamp in one corner, and the number in the other |
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by numusic on Apr 30, 2007 21:58:27 GMT 1, jeez..looks fine. You think anyone who could fake this would do a unsigned love rat ?
jeez..looks fine. You think anyone who could fake this would do a unsigned love rat ?
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Banksy Love Rat Print, by Daniel Silk on Apr 30, 2007 22:02:15 GMT 1, jeez..looks fine. You think anyone who could fake this would do a unsigned love rat ?
Very Very Very good point!
jeez..looks fine. You think anyone who could fake this would do a unsigned love rat ? Very Very Very good point! |
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anything else is just guess work really 
once in both bottom corners 
