fryl
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by fryl on Feb 21, 2017 20:54:56 GMT 1, Dear All
The French auction house "Crait+Muller" -Paris/France- is organizing an original auction sale for the 28th of April in Drouot.
They are looking for some original artworks. If you want to propose some pieces please write directly to
urbanartconsulting -at- gmail.com
Dear All
The French auction house "Crait+Muller" -Paris/France- is organizing an original auction sale for the 28th of April in Drouot.
They are looking for some original artworks. If you want to propose some pieces please write directly to
urbanartconsulting -at- gmail.com
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fryl
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by fryl on Apr 10, 2017 10:07:28 GMT 1, Urban art auction on the friday 28th of April online and live @ Drouot/Paris
Catalogue please click here
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fryl
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by fryl on Apr 19, 2017 20:58:35 GMT 1, Artist listing : ANDRE, 2RODE, AKTE, ALESSIO-B, ARTISTE OUVRIER, AUREL RUBBISH, BABOU, BANGA, BANKSY, BLADE, BLEK LE RAT, CAP ONE, CES ONE, COPE2, CRASH, CREN, DAZE, FLYING FORTRESS, GHOST, GUM, HONSAR, ICY & SHOT, INDIE184, JEF AEROSOL, JEROME MESNAGER, JONONE, KAWS, KEITH HARING, LASZLO, LβATLAS, LOR-K, MOZE156, MR. BRAINWASH, NASTY, NICK WALKER, NICOLAS MOREAU, PART ONE, PHILIPPE BONAN, POEM, PRO176, PSYCHOZE, PURE EVIL, QUIK, RD357, RECTO, RNST, SAEIO, SANE2, SEEN, SHEPARD FAIREY, SHUCK2, SONIC, STAY HIGH 149, SUN7, TAKI183, TANC, TKID170, TRACY168, TRANE, YOUSRI, ZENOY, ZEVS
Artist listing : ANDRE, 2RODE, AKTE, ALESSIO-B, ARTISTE OUVRIER, AUREL RUBBISH, BABOU, BANGA, BANKSY, BLADE, BLEK LE RAT, CAP ONE, CES ONE, COPE2, CRASH, CREN, DAZE, FLYING FORTRESS, GHOST, GUM, HONSAR, ICY & SHOT, INDIE184, JEF AEROSOL, JEROME MESNAGER, JONONE, KAWS, KEITH HARING, LASZLO, LβATLAS, LOR-K, MOZE156, MR. BRAINWASH, NASTY, NICK WALKER, NICOLAS MOREAU, PART ONE, PHILIPPE BONAN, POEM, PRO176, PSYCHOZE, PURE EVIL, QUIK, RD357, RECTO, RNST, SAEIO, SANE2, SEEN, SHEPARD FAIREY, SHUCK2, SONIC, STAY HIGH 149, SUN7, TAKI183, TANC, TKID170, TRACY168, TRANE, YOUSRI, ZENOY, ZEVS
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fryl
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by fryl on Apr 19, 2017 21:01:31 GMT 1, Artist listing : ANDRE, 2RODE, AKTE, ALESSIO-B, ARTISTE OUVRIER, AUREL RUBBISH, BABOU, BANGA, BANKSY, BLADE, BLEK LE RAT, CAP ONE, CES ONE, COPE2, CRASH, CREN, DAZE, FLYING FORTRESS, GHOST, GUM, HONSAR, ICY & SHOT, INDIE184, JEF AEROSOL, JEROME MESNAGER, JONONE, KAWS, KEITH HARING, LASZLO, LβATLAS, LOR-K, MOZE156, MR. BRAINWASH, NASTY, NICK WALKER, NICOLAS MOREAU, PART ONE, PHILIPPE BONAN, POEM, PRO176, PSYCHOZE, PURE EVIL, QUIK, RD357, RECTO, RNST, SAEIO, SANE2, SEEN, SHEPARD FAIREY, SHUCK2, SONIC, STAY HIGH 149, SUN7, TAKI183, TANC, TKID170, TRACY168, TRANE, YOUSRI, ZENOY, ZEVS
Artist listing : ANDRE, 2RODE, AKTE, ALESSIO-B, ARTISTE OUVRIER, AUREL RUBBISH, BABOU, BANGA, BANKSY, BLADE, BLEK LE RAT, CAP ONE, CES ONE, COPE2, CRASH, CREN, DAZE, FLYING FORTRESS, GHOST, GUM, HONSAR, ICY & SHOT, INDIE184, JEF AEROSOL, JEROME MESNAGER, JONONE, KAWS, KEITH HARING, LASZLO, LβATLAS, LOR-K, MOZE156, MR. BRAINWASH, NASTY, NICK WALKER, NICOLAS MOREAU, PART ONE, PHILIPPE BONAN, POEM, PRO176, PSYCHOZE, PURE EVIL, QUIK, RD357, RECTO, RNST, SAEIO, SANE2, SEEN, SHEPARD FAIREY, SHUCK2, SONIC, STAY HIGH 149, SUN7, TAKI183, TANC, TKID170, TRACY168, TRANE, YOUSRI, ZENOY, ZEVS
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fryl
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Viking Surfer
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Pattycakes
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Pattycakes on Nov 11, 2017 13:30:18 GMT 1, ahahhahaa
ahahhahaa
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.dappy
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by .dappy on Nov 11, 2017 13:48:46 GMT 1, ... fryl ... as a representative of the auction house, shouldn't you be more careful in your handling and sales description of any banksy pieces before you try and sell them?
... fryl ... as a representative of the auction house, shouldn't you be more careful in your handling and sales description of any banksy pieces before you try and sell them? |
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met
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by met on Nov 11, 2017 19:18:20 GMT 1, ... fryl ... as a representative of the auction house, shouldn't you be more careful in your handling and sales description of any banksy pieces before you try and sell them?
1. Since I don't know whether the We Love You promo box is genuine or fake, it would be great to hear the specific reasons why those commenting on this thread are so certain the box is indeed fake.
2. Given the accusations which have now been publicly made, Crait + MΓΌller and fryl may wish to offer further details about provenance and previous ownership β as well as due diligence checks made with Wall of Sound / We Love You (including about the edition-of-100 aspect).
[Here's what I myself feel comfortable stating (based on the information available):
(a) While I've never previously seen one of these promo boxes, there are countless other Banksy-related pieces that I'm ignorant of. And so, lack of familiarity would not in itself be reason for me to openly challenge authenticity.
(b) From the auction house's (very low-res) online images, nothing screams "fake" to me. Of course, this doesn't mean the box is genuine; I simply haven't spotted glaring, tell-tale signs of forgery. A point I would focus on is the fact the box is being presented as part of an edition β which is a little inconsistent with what I've seen for other Banksy ephemera from that period.
(c) Notwithstanding at least one typo in the lot description (the incorrect reference to the year 2003), the timeline set out in the rest of that description seems at least credible to my mind.
(d) Different stencils of the early Flower Thrower image were created and used. Minor discrepancies between the image on the promo box and other Flower Thrower pieces are therefore inconclusive as evidence of forgery.
(e) A birthday gift of a Banksy original by Wall of Sound musicians to the DJ Mary Ann Hobbs in 2000 has similarities with the image featured on the box. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to speculate they might have been created around the same time.
 ]
... fryl ... as a representative of the auction house, shouldn't you be more careful in your handling and sales description of any banksy pieces before you try and sell them? 1. Since I don't know whether the We Love You promo box is genuine or fake, it would be great to hear the specific reasons why those commenting on this thread are so certain the box is indeed fake. 2. Given the accusations which have now been publicly made, Crait + MΓΌller and fryl may wish to offer further details about provenance and previous ownership β as well as due diligence checks made with Wall of Sound / We Love You (including about the edition-of-100 aspect). [Here's what I myself feel comfortable stating (based on the information available):(a) While I've never previously seen one of these promo boxes, there are countless other Banksy-related pieces that I'm ignorant of. And so, lack of familiarity would not in itself be reason for me to openly challenge authenticity.(b) From the auction house's (very low-res) online images, nothing screams "fake" to me. Of course, this doesn't mean the box is genuine; I simply haven't spotted glaring, tell-tale signs of forgery. A point I would focus on is the fact the box is being presented as part of an edition β which is a little inconsistent with what I've seen for other Banksy ephemera from that period.(c) Notwithstanding at least one typo in the lot description (the incorrect reference to the year 2003), the timeline set out in the rest of that description seems at least credible to my mind.(d) Different stencils of the early Flower Thrower image were created and used. Minor discrepancies between the image on the promo box and other Flower Thrower pieces are therefore inconclusive as evidence of forgery.(e) A birthday gift of a Banksy original by Wall of Sound musicians to the DJ Mary Ann Hobbs in 2000 has similarities with the image featured on the box. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to speculate they might have been created around the same time. ] |
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.dappy
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by .dappy on Nov 11, 2017 19:32:12 GMT 1, met where did I say it was fake ...
... I think it is right that people should know who is peddling a product though ...
met where did I say it was fake ... ... I think it is right that people should know who is peddling a product though ...
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met
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by met on Nov 11, 2017 19:44:13 GMT 1, met where did I say it was fake ... ... I think it is right that people should know who is peddling a product though ...
That is a fair comment.
And you are correct. It was an error on my part to group those four posts together, since they weren't all saying the same thing.
My apologies.
met where did I say it was fake ... ... I think it is right that people should know who is peddling a product though ... That is a fair comment. And you are correct. It was an error on my part to group those four posts together, since they weren't all saying the same thing. My apologies. |
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.dappy
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by .dappy on Nov 11, 2017 19:49:15 GMT 1, met where did I say it was fake ... ... I think it is right that people should know who is peddling a product though ... That is a fair comment. And you are correct. It was an error on my part to group those four posts together, since they weren't all saying the same thing. My apologies.
... I accept 
met where did I say it was fake ... ... I think it is right that people should know who is peddling a product though ... That is a fair comment. And you are correct. It was an error on my part to group those four posts together, since they weren't all saying the same thing. My apologies. ... I accept |
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avec art
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by avec art on Nov 11, 2017 21:45:32 GMT 1, Fair point, I don't really have much grounds for it being fake. Personally I've not seen the 'we [heart] you' emblem coupled with the flower thrower before, however you've published a pic of a genuine gift to the DJ which shows just that. You're right that we ought to be more careful before making such claims, if we don't we're in danger of de-legitimating our position when we have genuine reason for concern. So for people reading this, I suggest doing your own research.
Fair point, I don't really have much grounds for it being fake. Personally I've not seen the 'we [heart] you' emblem coupled with the flower thrower before, however you've published a pic of a genuine gift to the DJ which shows just that. You're right that we ought to be more careful before making such claims, if we don't we're in danger of de-legitimating our position when we have genuine reason for concern. So for people reading this, I suggest doing your own research.
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Pattycakes
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Pattycakes on Nov 11, 2017 21:55:50 GMT 1, As we all know it's really not hard to authenticate a Banksy. Simply contact PCO and wait X months for their reply. I'm sorry but any auction house should do this as a matter of course, if they don't they are not worth yours, mine or anyone else time, they are jokers jumping on a bandwagon ready to make a quick buck at the expense of some poor schmo buyer who they've duped.
As we all know it's really not hard to authenticate a Banksy. Simply contact PCO and wait X months for their reply. I'm sorry but any auction house should do this as a matter of course, if they don't they are not worth yours, mine or anyone else time, they are jokers jumping on a bandwagon ready to make a quick buck at the expense of some poor schmo buyer who they've duped.
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pklong17
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by pklong17 on Nov 11, 2017 21:57:40 GMT 1, Isnβt that one of the pieces that took the life right out of Sandra Chevrierβs career?
Isnβt that one of the pieces that took the life right out of Sandra Chevrierβs career?
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Warm Gun
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Warm Gun on Nov 11, 2017 22:02:52 GMT 1, Isnβt that one of the pieces that took the life right out of Sandra Chevrierβs career?
Isnβt that one of the pieces that took the life right out of Sandra Chevrierβs career? No, she done that all on her own sadly. |
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Viking Surfer
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Viking Surfer on Nov 11, 2017 22:53:44 GMT 1, ... fryl ... as a representative of the auction house, shouldn't you be more careful in your handling and sales description of any banksy pieces before you try and sell them? 1. Since I don't know whether the We Love You promo box is genuine or fake, it would be great to hear the specific reasons why those commenting on this thread are so certain the box is indeed fake. 2. Given the accusations which have now been publicly made, Crait + MΓΌller and fryl may wish to offer further details about provenance and previous ownership β as well as due diligence checks made with Wall of Sound / We Love You (including about the edition-of-100 aspect). [Here's what I myself feel comfortable stating (based on the information available):(a) While I've never previously seen one of these promo boxes, there are countless other Banksy-related pieces that I'm ignorant of. And so, lack of familiarity would not in itself be reason for me to openly challenge authenticity.(b) From the auction house's (very low-res) online images, nothing screams "fake" to me. Of course, this doesn't mean the box is genuine; I simply haven't spotted glaring, tell-tale signs of forgery. A point I would focus on is the fact the box is being presented as part of an edition β which is a little inconsistent with what I've seen for other Banksy ephemera from that period.(c) Notwithstanding at least one typo in the lot description (the incorrect reference to the year 2003), the timeline set out in the rest of that description seems at least credible to my mind.(d) Different stencils of the early Flower Thrower image were created and used. Minor discrepancies between the image on the promo box and other Flower Thrower pieces are therefore inconclusive as evidence of forgery.(e) A birthday gift of a Banksy original by Wall of Sound musicians to the DJ Mary Ann Hobbs in 2000 has similarities with the image featured on the box. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to speculate they might have been created around the same time. ]
For the risk of opening myself up further...
1. Price: Simply, if this was a genuine 'Banksy' sprayed stencil on cardboard, it wouldn't be advertised at 15 - 20,000 euros.
2. Authentication: There is no Pest Control COA. PC have issued many COA's for many gift works over the years. If it was genuine, an auction house / owner would definitely go through the trouble of getting this work authenticated purely from a financial standpoint if nothing else.
**Even without a COA, the majority of Banksy editions / releases are very well documented. An edition as large as 100 would surely have much more of a history / provenance trail.
3. Source: I've seen a few of these pop up in the past on lower end auction house sites all with low valuations, no provenance etc. Something of this quality you would expect to see in a larger, more prestigious auction house. Take a look at the rest of the lots in that auction.
4. Other factors: Rude Copper is widely recognised as his first attempt at a somewhat numbered 'commercial' release. This would technically pre-date his first 'official' release and that was a heck of a lot rougher around the edges. It's creation literally in the back of a van, poor paper quality, no real continuity in positioning / stamping etc - compared to this almost perfect placement - an edition of 100 no less).
Of course I could still be wrong (I often am), but this is how I came to my conclusion and it is my personal opinion.
I alter my statement to:
'Yeaaaah fake - in my personal opinion'.
... fryl ... as a representative of the auction house, shouldn't you be more careful in your handling and sales description of any banksy pieces before you try and sell them? 1. Since I don't know whether the We Love You promo box is genuine or fake, it would be great to hear the specific reasons why those commenting on this thread are so certain the box is indeed fake. 2. Given the accusations which have now been publicly made, Crait + MΓΌller and fryl may wish to offer further details about provenance and previous ownership β as well as due diligence checks made with Wall of Sound / We Love You (including about the edition-of-100 aspect). [Here's what I myself feel comfortable stating (based on the information available):(a) While I've never previously seen one of these promo boxes, there are countless other Banksy-related pieces that I'm ignorant of. And so, lack of familiarity would not in itself be reason for me to openly challenge authenticity.(b) From the auction house's (very low-res) online images, nothing screams "fake" to me. Of course, this doesn't mean the box is genuine; I simply haven't spotted glaring, tell-tale signs of forgery. A point I would focus on is the fact the box is being presented as part of an edition β which is a little inconsistent with what I've seen for other Banksy ephemera from that period.(c) Notwithstanding at least one typo in the lot description (the incorrect reference to the year 2003), the timeline set out in the rest of that description seems at least credible to my mind.(d) Different stencils of the early Flower Thrower image were created and used. Minor discrepancies between the image on the promo box and other Flower Thrower pieces are therefore inconclusive as evidence of forgery.(e) A birthday gift of a Banksy original by Wall of Sound musicians to the DJ Mary Ann Hobbs in 2000 has similarities with the image featured on the box. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to speculate they might have been created around the same time. ]For the risk of opening myself up further... 1. Price: Simply, if this was a genuine 'Banksy' sprayed stencil on cardboard, it wouldn't be advertised at 15 - 20,000 euros. 2. Authentication: There is no Pest Control COA. PC have issued many COA's for many gift works over the years. If it was genuine, an auction house / owner would definitely go through the trouble of getting this work authenticated purely from a financial standpoint if nothing else. **Even without a COA, the majority of Banksy editions / releases are very well documented. An edition as large as 100 would surely have much more of a history / provenance trail. 3. Source: I've seen a few of these pop up in the past on lower end auction house sites all with low valuations, no provenance etc. Something of this quality you would expect to see in a larger, more prestigious auction house. Take a look at the rest of the lots in that auction. 4. Other factors: Rude Copper is widely recognised as his first attempt at a somewhat numbered 'commercial' release. This would technically pre-date his first 'official' release and that was a heck of a lot rougher around the edges. It's creation literally in the back of a van, poor paper quality, no real continuity in positioning / stamping etc - compared to this almost perfect placement - an edition of 100 no less). Of course I could still be wrong (I often am), but this is how I came to my conclusion and it is my personal opinion. I alter my statement to: 'Yeaaaah fake - in my personal opinion'. |
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fonebone45
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by fonebone45 on Nov 12, 2017 2:09:53 GMT 1, Isnβt that one of the pieces that took the life right out of Sandra Chevrierβs career? No, she done that all on her own sadly.
Isnβt that one of the pieces that took the life right out of Sandra Chevrierβs career? No, she done that all on her own sadly. I haven't been following her recently. What happened there? |
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Warm Gun
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Warm Gun on Nov 12, 2017 11:24:49 GMT 1, No, she done that all on her own sadly. I haven't been following her recently. What happened there?
I think the gist of it is she become slightly popular in the scene but then saturated her own market with quantity rather than quality whilst also raising her prices.
We've all seen this happen many times with many artists, they never seem to fully recover from it.
No, she done that all on her own sadly. I haven't been following her recently. What happened there? I'm not entirely sure, I've only recently come back from a long hiatus from the forum. I think the gist of it is she become slightly popular in the scene but then saturated her own market with quantity rather than quality whilst also raising her prices. We've all seen this happen many times with many artists, they never seem to fully recover from it. |
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Poster Bob
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Poster Bob on Nov 12, 2017 12:33:29 GMT 1, Let's just hope that she and Martin Whatson fade into Nick Walker type obscurity.
Let's just hope that she and Martin Whatson fade into Nick Walker type obscurity.
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sl
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by sl on Nov 12, 2017 13:33:06 GMT 1, Both their work is soooo tired. I donβt own any and donβt even try to. Same idea over and over with changes of subject painted on. Same graffiti and superheroes. Yawn.
The only Whatson I though was good was behind the curtain landscape edition.
But as we know a borrowed idea at best.
Both their work is soooo tired. I donβt own any and donβt even try to. Same idea over and over with changes of subject painted on. Same graffiti and superheroes. Yawn.
The only Whatson I though was good was behind the curtain landscape edition.
But as we know a borrowed idea at best.
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lucyloo
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by lucyloo on Nov 12, 2017 14:36:06 GMT 1, Let's just hope that she and Martin Whatson fade into Nick Walker type obscurity.
Let's just hope that she and Martin Whatson fade into Nick Walker type obscurity. the one trick pony club |
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fonebone45
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by fonebone45 on Nov 12, 2017 16:24:52 GMT 1, I like her work, but I agree that it got repetitive, and flooded the market. It's too bad, she's a super nice person IRL.
I like her work, but I agree that it got repetitive, and flooded the market. It's too bad, she's a super nice person IRL.
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Bill Hicks
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fryl
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by fryl on Nov 14, 2017 14:56:22 GMT 1, Hello Pest Control answered :
"This piece is not eligible for a COA as it was not created to be a commercial work of art.
Best
PCO"
This is an original work of art and not a fake. If so they would have mentionned it.
Thanks.
Fryl
Hello Pest Control answered :
"This piece is not eligible for a COA as it was not created to be a commercial work of art.
Best
PCO"
This is an original work of art and not a fake. If so they would have mentionned it.
Thanks.
Fryl
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Warm Gun
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Warm Gun on Nov 14, 2017 15:01:23 GMT 1, That's not how it really works mate and you know it. You're misleading people.
That's not how it really works mate and you know it. You're misleading people.
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gd79
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by gd79 on Nov 14, 2017 15:04:11 GMT 1, Let's just hope that she and Martin Whatson fade into Nick Walker type obscurity. the one trick pony club
Does Harland Miller fit in there too? Love his stuff, but same timeline of milking one trick, raising prices... Seeing them come up for sale more and more. He's still hot, but what's next?
Let's just hope that she and Martin Whatson fade into Nick Walker type obscurity. the one trick pony club Does Harland Miller fit in there too? Love his stuff, but same timeline of milking one trick, raising prices... Seeing them come up for sale more and more. He's still hot, but what's next? |
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Lunch Special
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Lunch Special on Nov 14, 2017 15:15:13 GMT 1,
My photo my set. Thanks for digging it up. Still have it in tact. Bought this on eBay years ago. Wanted to find the LP and then forgot and now it's worth too much just to add to the collection.
I too asked pow for information and was told the same. But my email was different as it said " that's a nice piece Unfortunately we can not provide a coa for a promo piece as it isn't a work of art" that was enough for mprovenance Owning a LIITA is out of reach so this will suffice. Resell it? Probably not worth the hassle. Trade? Possible but not likely. Listing it in an auction house without any provenance and having the auctioneer defend the stupidity - Priceless!
My photo my set. Thanks for digging it up. Still have it in tact. Bought this on eBay years ago. Wanted to find the LP and then forgot and now it's worth too much just to add to the collection. I too asked pow for information and was told the same. But my email was different as it said " that's a nice piece Unfortunately we can not provide a coa for a promo piece as it isn't a work of art" that was enough for mprovenance Owning a LIITA is out of reach so this will suffice. Resell it? Probably not worth the hassle. Trade? Possible but not likely. Listing it in an auction house without any provenance and having the auctioneer defend the stupidity - Priceless! |
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fryl
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by fryl on Nov 14, 2017 15:25:32 GMT 1, Crait + Muller have the fully provenance of this artwork as it is the personn who was in charge of Labels/Virgin Group in France which was the Wall Of Sound/We Love You label distributor.
We have every elements even a signed letter, visit card, name of the Banksy's friend (the label manager from We Love You) who proposed him to work for this label. And the all story behind it.
Thanks.
Crait + Muller have the fully provenance of this artwork as it is the personn who was in charge of Labels/Virgin Group in France which was the Wall Of Sound/We Love You label distributor.
We have every elements even a signed letter, visit card, name of the Banksy's friend (the label manager from We Love You) who proposed him to work for this label. And the all story behind it.
Thanks.
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Pattycakes
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Crait & Muller Auctions π«π· Paris, by Pattycakes on Nov 14, 2017 19:16:10 GMT 1, but fryl you don't have a certificate, so, you don't actually have anything do you?
I don't mean to sound harsh, but those are the cold hard facts.
but fryl you don't have a certificate, so, you don't actually have anything do you? I don't mean to sound harsh, but those are the cold hard facts. |
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