|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by bernsteiner on May 13, 2017 21:13:12 GMT 1, This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since years and read a lot here.
I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005:
Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory.
- It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London
- The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched)
- This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London
- The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free)
- A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object;
In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner:
..
POC wrote more then a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting):
"
Hi xxx.
The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy.
Kind regards
Pest Control Office
"
I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since they claim that they generally don't do it.
I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes?
Looking forward to the exchange here..
This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005: Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner: .. POC wrote more then a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since they claim that they generally don't do it. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here.. |
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Peter Bengtsen on May 13, 2017 21:22:01 GMT 1, This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since two years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005:  Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link above). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner:  .. POC wrote more than a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since the claim that they don't generally. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here..
Quoted for future reference.
---------------------------------------------- Read more about The Street Art World---------------------------------------------- This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since two years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005: Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link above). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner: .. POC wrote more than a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since the claim that they don't generally. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here.. Quoted for future reference.
---------------------------------------------- Read more about The Street Art World---------------------------------------------- |
|
Matt
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,358
👍🏻 3,450
September 2014
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Matt on May 13, 2017 21:44:40 GMT 1, Interesting that PC (allegedly) states "it is a fake" rather than "we will not authenticate"
If that email from PC is real, then you have your answer !
Interesting that PC (allegedly) states "it is a fake" rather than "we will not authenticate"
If that email from PC is real, then you have your answer !
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Lroy on May 13, 2017 22:04:27 GMT 1, I am really not sure about the elephant itself.
I am really not sure about the elephant itself.
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by bernsteiner on May 13, 2017 22:07:00 GMT 1, Now it's authentic : )
Now it's authentic : ) |
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by bernsteiner on May 14, 2017 10:18:52 GMT 1, How do you mean it?
Does the statement proof it's a fake or the opposit?
I made several comparisons to details of the Bonhams HW.. every element fits 1:1.
The motive on the object and the authenticated canvas have both a very remarkable spot. At the bottom of the front-food you can see a white-area/spot. This spot is on both mediums exactly at the same position, by the same scale. You can see a very zoomed/detailed here (clamp outline (yellow) on Bonhams canvas):
How do you mean it? Does the statement proof it's a fake or the opposit? I made several comparisons to details of the Bonhams HW.. every element fits 1:1. The motive on the object and the authenticated canvas have both a very remarkable spot. At the bottom of the front-food you can see a white-area/spot. This spot is on both mediums exactly at the same position, by the same scale. You can see a very zoomed/detailed here (clamp outline (yellow) on Bonhams canvas): |
|
|
|
Aza
Artist
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,983
👍🏻 3,791
November 2006
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Aza on May 14, 2017 10:22:41 GMT 1, It's all very interesting, however if PC won't authenticate it, it becomes pretty worthless.
How much did you pay for it?
It's all very interesting, however if PC won't authenticate it, it becomes pretty worthless.
How much did you pay for it?
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by bernsteiner on May 14, 2017 10:23:47 GMT 1, low 5 digit price. It has more a art-historical value for me. Especially in the whole "street art belongs to the street" discussion..
Like it it now. I conserve it for coming generations.. on the street it would have gone.
low 5 digit price. It has more a art-historical value for me. Especially in the whole "street art belongs to the street" discussion..
Like it it now. I conserve it for coming generations.. on the street it would have gone.
|
|
Flashback
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,240
👍🏻 1,149
April 2016
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Flashback on May 14, 2017 10:24:26 GMT 1, I'm not a Banksy expert but...Pest Control are!
If they say it's fake, i'm sure it is.
I'm not a Banksy expert but...Pest Control are!
If they say it's fake, i'm sure it is.
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by bernsteiner on May 14, 2017 10:30:18 GMT 1, But why do they say it and did't reject the authentication like normally? What's their agenda with banksys street art pieces? Like I know they (don't) authenticate to devalue it..
But why do they say it and did't reject the authentication like normally? What's their agenda with banksys street art pieces? Like I know they (don't) authenticate to devalue it..
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Sturban Has Saggy Tits on May 14, 2017 10:38:11 GMT 1, This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005:  Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner: .. POC wrote more then a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since they claim that they generally don't do it. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here..
It looks genuine to me, it's just a shame you will probably never have it authorised by pc. Keep hold of it, maybe one day that might change.
This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005: Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner: .. POC wrote more then a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since they claim that they generally don't do it. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here.. It looks genuine to me, it's just a shame you will probably never have it authorised by pc. Keep hold of it, maybe one day that might change. |
|
Dr Plip
Junior Member
🗨️ 7,043
👍🏻 8,981
August 2011
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Dr Plip on May 14, 2017 10:39:20 GMT 1, If PC say they don't authenticate street pieces, then that's one thing, but if they've said outright that it's fake, then I guess unless you find a picture of that actual clamp in a Banksy-related environment, it's unlikely to be thought of as genuine.
It's too easy to fake street pieces. Which is why they won't authenticate them. I'm sure Banksy can't remember all the bins and bollards he's touched up.
If PC say they don't authenticate street pieces, then that's one thing, but if they've said outright that it's fake, then I guess unless you find a picture of that actual clamp in a Banksy-related environment, it's unlikely to be thought of as genuine.
It's too easy to fake street pieces. Which is why they won't authenticate them. I'm sure Banksy can't remember all the bins and bollards he's touched up. |
|
Dr Plip
Junior Member
🗨️ 7,043
👍🏻 8,981
August 2011
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Dr Plip on May 14, 2017 10:41:17 GMT 1, If you bought it because you like it, then whatever you paid for it must have been the right price for you.
Enjoy it for what it is.
Failing that, use the clamp element of it and I'm sure within a year, you'll make your money back from motorists.
If you bought it because you like it, then whatever you paid for it must have been the right price for you.
Enjoy it for what it is.
Failing that, use the clamp element of it and I'm sure within a year, you'll make your money back from motorists. |
|
Dr Plip
Junior Member
🗨️ 7,043
👍🏻 8,981
August 2011
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Dr Plip on May 14, 2017 10:44:03 GMT 1, Perhaps this isn't the first time that PC has seen this piece?
Perhaps this isn't the first time that PC has seen this piece?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Sturban Has Saggy Tits on May 14, 2017 10:49:28 GMT 1, low 5 digit price. It has more a art-historical value for me. Especially in the whole "street art belongs to the street" discussion.. Like it it now. I conserve it for coming generations.. on the street it would have gone.
That is a lot of money to pay for it. What sort of provenance did the dealer provide when you bought it? I take it there must have been something substantial, as two years ago the market was flooded with fake street pieces.
low 5 digit price. It has more a art-historical value for me. Especially in the whole "street art belongs to the street" discussion.. Like it it now. I conserve it for coming generations.. on the street it would have gone. That is a lot of money to pay for it. What sort of provenance did the dealer provide when you bought it? I take it there must have been something substantial, as two years ago the market was flooded with fake street pieces. |
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Deleted on May 14, 2017 11:11:58 GMT 1, low 5 digit price. It has more a art-historical value for me. Especially in the whole "street art belongs to the street" discussion.. Like it it now. I conserve it for coming generations.. on the street it would have gone. That is a lot of money to pay for it. What sort of provenance did the dealer provide when you bought it? I take it there must have been something substantial, as two years ago the market was flooded with fake street pieces.
For me this is worth zero.... sounds like the dealer has had a field day here....
low 5 digit price. It has more a art-historical value for me. Especially in the whole "street art belongs to the street" discussion.. Like it it now. I conserve it for coming generations.. on the street it would have gone. That is a lot of money to pay for it. What sort of provenance did the dealer provide when you bought it? I take it there must have been something substantial, as two years ago the market was flooded with fake street pieces. For me this is worth zero.... sounds like the dealer has had a field day here.... |
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Sturban Has Saggy Tits on May 14, 2017 11:22:37 GMT 1, That is a lot of money to pay for it. What sort of provenance did the dealer provide when you bought it? I take it there must have been something substantial, as two years ago the market was flooded with fake street pieces. For me this is worth zero.... sounds like the dealer has had a field day here....
That's why I was asking, he must have some good provenance to pay £10k+ rather than £200 off ebay. I hope it wasn't just a Coa from the gallery.
That is a lot of money to pay for it. What sort of provenance did the dealer provide when you bought it? I take it there must have been something substantial, as two years ago the market was flooded with fake street pieces. For me this is worth zero.... sounds like the dealer has had a field day here.... That's why I was asking, he must have some good provenance to pay £10k+ rather than £200 off ebay. I hope it wasn't just a Coa from the gallery. |
|
Wearology
Junior Member
Staff at FatFreeArt
🗨️ 3,598
👍🏻 4,514
April 2008
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Wearology on May 14, 2017 13:56:07 GMT 1, I have to agree with Dr. Plip on his or hers theory. PC has probably seen this item presented to them in the past and no longer deemed it as only a one off street piece but rather they saw it as a multiple fake image being passed off as original as well and felt the need to inform potential customers or send a message to the person making them that they are aware of their actions and that they deem the re-creation of the Banksy image, the practice of replicating an image not by the original artist and the potential purchase under false pretense to all to be put into the fake category.
I have to agree with Dr. Plip on his or hers theory. PC has probably seen this item presented to them in the past and no longer deemed it as only a one off street piece but rather they saw it as a multiple fake image being passed off as original as well and felt the need to inform potential customers or send a message to the person making them that they are aware of their actions and that they deem the re-creation of the Banksy image, the practice of replicating an image not by the original artist and the potential purchase under false pretense to all to be put into the fake category.
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Sturban Has Saggy Tits on May 14, 2017 14:34:18 GMT 1, I have to agree with Dr. Plip on his or hers theory. PC has probably seen this item presented to them in the past and no longer deemed it as only a one off street piece but rather they saw it as a multiple fake image being passed off as original as well and felt the need to inform potential customers or send a message to the person making them that they are aware of their actions and that they deem the re-creation of the Banksy image, the practice of replicating an image not by the original artist and the potential purchase under false pretense to all to be put into the fake category.
Just because PC say it's fake, does that really mean it's 100% not made by Banksy? I don't expect PC send off a pic to Banksy of every piece that's submitted to them. I understand that they are there to authenticate originals and prints, but it's very easy for them to dismiss street pieces as fakes just because they were not made to be sold.
If what the op is saying is true, then would someone be able to have replicated an original canvas as well as this, I'm not sure.
I have to agree with Dr. Plip on his or hers theory. PC has probably seen this item presented to them in the past and no longer deemed it as only a one off street piece but rather they saw it as a multiple fake image being passed off as original as well and felt the need to inform potential customers or send a message to the person making them that they are aware of their actions and that they deem the re-creation of the Banksy image, the practice of replicating an image not by the original artist and the potential purchase under false pretense to all to be put into the fake category. Just because PC say it's fake, does that really mean it's 100% not made by Banksy? I don't expect PC send off a pic to Banksy of every piece that's submitted to them. I understand that they are there to authenticate originals and prints, but it's very easy for them to dismiss street pieces as fakes just because they were not made to be sold. If what the op is saying is true, then would someone be able to have replicated an original canvas as well as this, I'm not sure. |
|
.dappy
Full Member
🗨️ 9,841
👍🏻 9,462
December 2010
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by .dappy on May 14, 2017 14:39:06 GMT 1, ... some people so want to believe ... 🙄 😖
... some people so want to believe ... 🙄 😖
|
|
mouser
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,236
👍🏻 1,148
April 2011
|
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Sturban Has Saggy Tits on May 14, 2017 14:51:33 GMT 1, ... some people so want to believe ... 🙄 😖
... some people so want to believe ... 🙄 😖 |
|
|
|
Nick
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,562
👍🏻 1,630
January 2014
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Nick on May 14, 2017 15:20:10 GMT 1, Saying you think its legit as it's the exact same as a canvas sold at bonhams is a bit foolish. That's how forgeries are created. The forger has probably taken that exact image and replicated it to create the illusion of the same stencil (pretty easy, this is a one cut stencil).
Any comparisons like the 'white spot/area' are there to dupe you into handing your money over. Seems you fell for it.
Either way pest control would never give a coa as even if made by mr.B it was never for sale. Your only hope would be to see it in one of his books or on his website and I would have done that digging before handing over 5 figures.
Saying you think its legit as it's the exact same as a canvas sold at bonhams is a bit foolish. That's how forgeries are created. The forger has probably taken that exact image and replicated it to create the illusion of the same stencil (pretty easy, this is a one cut stencil).
Any comparisons like the 'white spot/area' are there to dupe you into handing your money over. Seems you fell for it.
Either way pest control would never give a coa as even if made by mr.B it was never for sale. Your only hope would be to see it in one of his books or on his website and I would have done that digging before handing over 5 figures.
|
|
mutatis
New Member
🗨️ 671
👍🏻 492
July 2013
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by mutatis on May 14, 2017 15:42:47 GMT 1, This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005: Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner: .. POC wrote more then a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since they claim that they generally don't do it. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here..  ??
This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005: Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner: .. POC wrote more then a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since they claim that they generally don't do it. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here.. You went to the official source to get an answer. The answer you received was that the work is a fake not that they wouldn't authenticate it. You don't like the answer. Can you prove otherwise? Did you challenge their assertion with evidence that you have. Do you have any? What did your research tell you? Without any more it's hard to opine on these bald facts. The aforegoing assumes that you did your own research BEFORE buying. You did, didn't you? ?? |
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Sturban Has Saggy Tits on May 14, 2017 15:45:02 GMT 1, Saying you think its legit as it's the exact same as a canvas sold at bonhams is a bit foolish. That's how forgeries are created. The forger has probably taken that exact image and replicated it to create the illusion of the same stencil (pretty easy, this is a one cut stencil). Any comparisons like the 'white spot/area' are there to dupe you into handing your money over. Seems you fell for it. Either way pest control would never give a coa as even if made by mr.B it was never for sale. Your only hope would be to see it in one of his books or on his website and I would have done that digging before handing over 5 figures.
I presume if the op is genuine, then he must have some type of provenance to hand over that sort of money, which is why I quoted him asking what that is. I get there's a million fakes out there, but there are also a small percentage that are genuine. With no way of authorising, genuine ones are just bunched into the same category as being fake. I take people as I find em and the op hasn't just signed up here trying his luck in selling a street piece(yet). I'm not saying it's definitely a genuine piece, but I think some are too fast to slap people down here sometimes.
Saying you think its legit as it's the exact same as a canvas sold at bonhams is a bit foolish. That's how forgeries are created. The forger has probably taken that exact image and replicated it to create the illusion of the same stencil (pretty easy, this is a one cut stencil). Any comparisons like the 'white spot/area' are there to dupe you into handing your money over. Seems you fell for it. Either way pest control would never give a coa as even if made by mr.B it was never for sale. Your only hope would be to see it in one of his books or on his website and I would have done that digging before handing over 5 figures. I presume if the op is genuine, then he must have some type of provenance to hand over that sort of money, which is why I quoted him asking what that is. I get there's a million fakes out there, but there are also a small percentage that are genuine. With no way of authorising, genuine ones are just bunched into the same category as being fake. I take people as I find em and the op hasn't just signed up here trying his luck in selling a street piece(yet). I'm not saying it's definitely a genuine piece, but I think some are too fast to slap people down here sometimes. |
|
Unica
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,076
👍🏻 1,232
November 2013
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Unica on May 14, 2017 17:42:33 GMT 1, This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since two years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005: Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link above). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner: .. POC wrote more than a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since the claim that they don't generally. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here.. Quoted for future reference.
---------------------------------------------- Read more about The Street Art World----------------------------------------------
This is my first posting in this board even I'm a member since two years and read a lot here. I own this wheelclamp since more than two years now. I purchased it personally from an oldtimer-dealer in south Germany who brought it from London around 2005: Since then I made a lot of research.. and have got a reply from PCO: The results are contradictory. - It's an original wheel-clamp/carboot like it is still used today in London - The optical appearance of the object is authentically old (rusty, scratched) - This motive appeared in Banksys early period in Bristol and recently 2000/2001 in London - The motive has been used in two versions on canvases; the strongest differentiation is the middle pair of legs (older motive = the space between is painted black; younger = the space is kept free) - A canvas of the newer motive was auctioned at Bonhams in 2007: www.bonhams.com/auctions/14942/lot/369/ , conforms 1:1 to the motive on the object; In my theory the object was created around the year 2000 and Banksys first show in London, similar to the above mentioned canvas (Bonhams refers to it in their detail discription, see link above). Banksy painted several motives on plain whited-out walls and sold the motives on canvas seperately; this photo shows this wall, see the (younger) motive in the lower left corner: .. POC wrote more than a year ago (after some exchange via mail and several month of waiting): " Hi xxx. The clamp is a fake, it isn’t by Banksy. Kind regards Pest Control Office " I wonder that they make a statement on a street art piece since the claim that they don't generally. I'm very interested in the opinions here? Have you ever seen such an object (Clamp + HW) or any older HW fakes? Looking forward to the exchange here.. Quoted for future reference.
---------------------------------------------- Read more about The Street Art World---------------------------------------------- Unfortunately for you Pest Control have the final say, and if they say its fake then thats it. Sorry that you spent so much on it, I don't know how it would be possible to sell as you would knowingly be selling a forgery. |
|
sl
New Member
🗨️ 460
👍🏻 241
September 2016
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by sl on May 14, 2017 18:30:55 GMT 1,
PC has been very clear for the beginning that they will NOT authenticate a street piece.
It must get really old for them to keep answering the same queries over and over. Have to give them credit that they even bother to answer and remain polite.
No offense to the op but anyone that purchases a street piece, always without a coa, has to know by now they are purchasing something purely for their own enjoyment and cannot expect to get a big return or ever know if it was real. No matter the sales pitch given. There is only 1 person that can say for sure and he ain't talking about it.
I wonder if the gallery that sold it bought it to "save" it or for profit. I like profit but not under the guise of a noble act. If they were "saving it" with the proper provenance maybe donate it for all to enjoy! Rather than hang in a private room for a select few to gawk at.
I also chuckle that anytime a street piece is removed/ purchased that it is for "preservation" not investment. Few actually save it and display for public enjoyment as Banksy intended originally. Cheers to those!
If it not an investment enjoy the piece and know you thought the art was worth it not the name tag.
I didn't see any comments on the beauty, ironic message of the placement or its significance only authenticity and value.
PC has been very clear for the beginning that they will NOT authenticate a street piece.
It must get really old for them to keep answering the same queries over and over. Have to give them credit that they even bother to answer and remain polite.
No offense to the op but anyone that purchases a street piece, always without a coa, has to know by now they are purchasing something purely for their own enjoyment and cannot expect to get a big return or ever know if it was real. No matter the sales pitch given. There is only 1 person that can say for sure and he ain't talking about it.
I wonder if the gallery that sold it bought it to "save" it or for profit. I like profit but not under the guise of a noble act. If they were "saving it" with the proper provenance maybe donate it for all to enjoy! Rather than hang in a private room for a select few to gawk at.
I also chuckle that anytime a street piece is removed/ purchased that it is for "preservation" not investment. Few actually save it and display for public enjoyment as Banksy intended originally. Cheers to those!
If it not an investment enjoy the piece and know you thought the art was worth it not the name tag.
I didn't see any comments on the beauty, ironic message of the placement or its significance only authenticity and value.
|
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by bernsteiner on May 14, 2017 20:19:42 GMT 1, Thank you for your statements. This piece is worth every penny for me. I love it and it looks beautiful in my living room. Several serious banksy collectors like it too.
I just wonder - and was interested in your opinion - why does PC say it's a fake instaed of rejecting the authentication.
You can be sure that I wouldn't have bought it with a bad feeling. I collected the money and drove through half of europe to get it. Before I checked every public information about the HW motive and Banksys early days - and it really was in the hands of the trustworth seller since 2005.
A basic idea of me about forgery of real (and complex) street art: It's hard to reproduce. The specific moment when a piece is created makes the half of its karma, if a Banksy, a Haring or of anybody else. Producing such an authentic piece like this clamp needs a high perfection and dozens of other clamps until one of them looks such good.. and this one is worth more than a four digit price. Forgering a Mona Lisa for million bucks, ok. But faking a piece worth nearly nothing would need another motivation..
My intention here is not to discuss its value nor its beauty or message. I dont't want to sell it. It is more your reflection and your experience with Banksy in general, other HW paintings (maybe a series of HW fakes) and personal feedback you received from PC.
Another intention was - and I experienced it while reading one of the last posts here - to give it a public, to discuss it and the "street art-collecting-thing" and to show that something is here; if fake or not - nobody knows. If it's real it's like a time capsule from 2000: Banksys earliest days in London..
Thank you for your statements. This piece is worth every penny for me. I love it and it looks beautiful in my living room. Several serious banksy collectors like it too.
I just wonder - and was interested in your opinion - why does PC say it's a fake instaed of rejecting the authentication.
You can be sure that I wouldn't have bought it with a bad feeling. I collected the money and drove through half of europe to get it. Before I checked every public information about the HW motive and Banksys early days - and it really was in the hands of the trustworth seller since 2005.
A basic idea of me about forgery of real (and complex) street art: It's hard to reproduce. The specific moment when a piece is created makes the half of its karma, if a Banksy, a Haring or of anybody else. Producing such an authentic piece like this clamp needs a high perfection and dozens of other clamps until one of them looks such good.. and this one is worth more than a four digit price. Forgering a Mona Lisa for million bucks, ok. But faking a piece worth nearly nothing would need another motivation..
My intention here is not to discuss its value nor its beauty or message. I dont't want to sell it. It is more your reflection and your experience with Banksy in general, other HW paintings (maybe a series of HW fakes) and personal feedback you received from PC.
Another intention was - and I experienced it while reading one of the last posts here - to give it a public, to discuss it and the "street art-collecting-thing" and to show that something is here; if fake or not - nobody knows. If it's real it's like a time capsule from 2000: Banksys earliest days in London..
|
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by Deleted on May 14, 2017 21:13:57 GMT 1, Thank you for your statements. This piece is worth every penny for me. I love it and it looks beautiful in my living room. Several serious banksy collectors like it too. What did your serious banksy collector people say about the PC side of it?
Thank you for your statements. This piece is worth every penny for me. I love it and it looks beautiful in my living room. Several serious banksy collectors like it too. What did your serious banksy collector people say about the PC side of it? |
|
|
|
Heavy Weaponry Clamp, by bernsteiner on May 14, 2017 21:25:21 GMT 1, They say: Hold and enjoy it! Maybe one day..
They say: Hold and enjoy it! Maybe one day..
|
|
??
