[snakes]

bonesy said:

Im assuming Im in the minority, but........ This is BS. The SG pieces were sold as an edition size of 25, not 25 plus 10 hand finished. Just like replacing damaged prints with the same numbered print and having unnumbered unlabeled prints laying around their office, this is another example of these guys having no integrity in terms of the print run. They printed 25 and numbered them, done deal- edition should be closed. Not 4 months later start up the printing presses (I realize its a giclee) and run out another 10 to be handfinished.

About time they did the same for Banksy's Stop & Search

[xhitsthespot]

IMO the print quality was awful on the POW giclees they were totally flat and lifeless, I suspect that is probably why most of them have been "flipped"

[rosstierney]

some of you know how much i love the no surrender image so i bit the bullet

after paying £500 to a flipper in december for the ghetto print i decided to buy a hand finished @ cost

in time, i plan to sell the ghetto print to recoup funds & frame the hand finished

longwinded i know, but i'm happy

one thing that did worry me, i got the impression laz had the original ghetto prints for sale but now sold out

if true, how much were they?

[G-Man]

about 450 +vat if i remember right

[lover]

I got a reflected Jet from SG that I have no intention of selling. Just waiting to move to new house and will be framed and put up somewhere, but it does p11s me off that they have increased the edition size with no prior warning. If not illegal then immoral

[Vegas]

I too was fortunate to get NS and am now struggling to accept that further additions are being produced. Although being a big fan of 3D, my dissapointment lies mainly with the man himself for allowing this happen.

Also what happened to all the unsold SG prints that were on LAZ? Are these going to be put back onto POW? and at what price? £275 or 450=vat?

[lastpost]

Or are these 10 now part of the 25 run?

[pezlow]

On the POW and banksy issue I know that bonesy had been concerned about this for some time. The story in the art newspaper about the bogus prints being sold by a former employee of POW on ebay could only have happened because of additional prints being run off in order to provide replacements.

In many ways POW were a victim of their shoddy packaging - they presumably got loads of prints returned because they failed to package them properly in the first place. Therefore they had to run off lots of spare prints in order to replace those ones which were damaged in transit. Now that their packaging has improved immensely this should hopefully be less of a problem going forward.

I have no problem with POW printing additional copies of prints to provide replacements for a limited period of time. Indeed I applaud them for doing do. Can you imagine how disappointed you would be if your banksy order got lost or damaged in the post and you were told by POW that it was tough luck and it couldn't be replaced. I think it is part of POW's excellent after sales care that they are happy to help with replacements etc.

However after whatever period of time is reasonable (say 2 months?) I think all the additional prints should be destroyed, along with the original screens, so that long term the integrity of the edition is protected.

[Vegas]

Ross - Glad you've got one of the new hand finished prints - I know the hell you went thru in trying to get one before.

Did Laz tell you what was being hand finished on your new print?

[rosstierney]

vegas21 said:

Ross - Glad you've got one of the new hand finished prints - I know the hell you went thru in trying to get one before.

Did Laz tell you what was being hand finished on your new print?

i didn't ask!

i was so dissapointed i missed the heads up on here yesterday, i was just made up they had one left

i suppose it's one more surprise to look forward too, i wonder what number they're going to send i ordered the show poster too as i can't get down

i wouldn't mind this original as a print:

[G-Man]

I've just been down to Laz and seen them in the flesh

The No Surrender hand finished is very cool.. the hand finishing on the prints is not massive though!! Spray paint in red and some splattering, not much variation either. It ais a really scary image in the flesh the little sub human creatures on the bottom are the focus

I loved it but............. not £500+ loved it!

Some of the non ghetto ones were cool and good to see something new

The show print of 50 is a black and white and is fairly small... cool but not £300+ cool IMO

The new Laz space is cool though and was good to see the originals of these there, Its good that Laz can now run two artists concurrently with the new space.

[bonesy]

The No Surrender hand finished is very cool.. the hand finishing on the prints is not massive though!! Spray paint in red and some splattering, not much variation either.

So it was really just a way to make some more of the original edition. Blatantly illegal.

[Heavyconsumer]

Laz know the deal, they should have had him come up with a series of orignal prints for the show, well in advance. Very poor practise this!

[slowmo]

bonesy said:

The No Surrender hand finished is very cool.. the hand finishing on the prints is not massive though!! Spray paint in red and some splattering, not much variation either.

So it was really just a way to make some more of the original edition. Blatantly illegal.

In what way is it illegal?

[rosstierney]

geeman said:

I loved it but............. not £500+ loved it!

to be honest, if i'd paid cost for the ghetto print there's no way i would have bought a hand finished

i just thought i might as well pay the extra £50 for a hand finished edition of 10

any pictures of the show print would be much appreciated

[badabing]

[i was so dissapointed i missed the heads up on here yesterday, i was just made up they had one left

i suppose it's one more surprise to look forward too, i wonder what number they're going to send i ordered the show poster too as i can't get down

anyone seen the show poster?
As much as I like 3d's stuff, I haven't got £500+ to splash about at present, so am thinking of one of these as a cheapo option.

any thoughts on what it's like?

[bonesy]

slowmo said:

bonesy said:

So it was really just a way to make some more of the original edition. Blatantly illegal.

In what way is it illegal?

Its extending the edition. There are very strict laws when it comes to limited editions (I dont know the details). I know here in the US there are some states that even mandate they come with a COA. Im not saying we have to have a COA with every purchase but this has definetly got to be walking on a grey area as far as legal issues involved with limited edition art. (blatantly was the wrong word to use but I would be interested in the legality in things like this)

[robinbanks]

POW/Santa's Ghetto never at any time said that the 3D prints were "limited" edition - just an edition of 25.
There was no disclaimer saying who owned the copyright to the image and whether or not there would be any more prints produced in the future.

As far as I'm aware that is the case for most of the Banksy prints as well and there could be a chance of some of his editions being extended at some point in the future (provided they have the artists consent).

[savilerogue]

This lame re-hashing of the SG prints seems to be purely a money-making exercise. Spray a few of the overrun prints, call them 'hand finished' and sell them at top whack.

Why not release some new stuff? It's not like he's short of images - check out the index of pictures on Laz where you can find stuff like this (all of which would make great prints IMO):

[Vegas]

Bonesy - I share your pain. I too feel like i've been kicked in th bollox...

I'm guessing "they" are getting away with it by saying it's a new run i.e newly numbered and that also the images are ever so slightly different..

Again, my frustration is with Rob Del Naja for allowing/agreeing this to happen. A new set of prints would have been far better to release, but clearly the portfolio can't handle it. RDN has lost lost my respect as an artist with the integrity to his fans and supporters!

[nadir]

As someone who paid a premium on the secondary market to get the only print I really wanted from SG (Peace at Last), I too am pretty annoyed about this. Dissapointed with 3D but not really surprised at POW.

[smuk]

bonesy said:

ianfrancis said:

bonesy...all the hard work for these pieces have been done, such as the photography, color correction, etc. All they need to do is press "print". So, they can keep on making more and more money as long as people will buy them. I think they should make the next set an edition of 500 unsigned for about £75. Doesn't take too much work for them. That way, more people can have them on their walls.

Im fine with there being large print runs but by pressing "print" after the edition size has been determined and sold they are breaking the law, hand embellished or not.

q4t

[rosstierney]

Show Poster

[bonesy]

POW/Santa's Ghetto never at any time said that the 3D prints were "limited" edition - just an edition of 25.

Wrong, the POW site states "All screenprints are produced in-house under secure conditions and strictly to the edition number stated". I realize the 3Ds were from Santa's Ghetto, not POW, and they are giclees, not screenprints, but I think any legal entity would say the POW self-made statement would apply to giclees or the Ghetto. This statement is on their homepage and would apply to every numbered edition they sell.

Even this 3D instance aside its pretty safe to say this is a blatant lie. The fact alone that they replace damages with the same numbered prints means they are not produced "strictly to the edition number stated". Im over arguing the whole damage replacement thing but this statement is just so blatantly deceiving just for the replacement fact alone.

[buddings]

i asked on another thread with no reply whether the old 3D prints sold out at POW? or were they just removed? especially 'in europe' i think its called

[rosstierney]

buddings said:

i asked on another thread with no reply whether the old 3D prints sold out at POW? or were they just removed? especially 'in europe' i think its called

i'd like to think they were removed for future sale because i love in europe

i can't see them selling out back then

[buddings]

thats what i thought, i'm well up for having in europe on my wall. i also think laz should make it possible to buy via the net, i want one of the 3D lithos but ringing up is far too much effort

[tadghostal]

lastpost said:

I am completely though with the whole POW/Laz thing.

POW/Laz = Hype.

POW/Laz does have some good stuff, but there's just way too much shadiness for me to overlook. And its been that way consistently for a long, long time at this point. No way that I'll support people that lack integrity, particularly when they're more than willing to screw their customers.

BTW--I actually stopped being interested in POW prior to the "Morons" release, so this is nothing new. Its just interesting to me that this board, in many ways, is like watching Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day."

[rosstierney]

"The manufacture and sale of prints on POW is in fact an extremely accountable process. All screen prints are produced in-house under secure conditions and strictly to the edition number stated."

www.picturesonwalls.com/FAQ.asp

[They call me Stephen]

Just received this from pow;

It's the anniversary of 1968 when there was fighting on the streets of London and the French barricaded themselves in the Sorbonne. What better way to celebrate these momentus times than looking at pictures of flag waving insurrectionists through a fog
of Bristol skunk smoke.
Enter 3D Del Naja and his rightly praised new giclee edition print series.