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[Daniel Silk]

#DubaiWalls - Eine at City Walk

[Daniel Silk]

#DubaiWalls: D-Face at City Walk

[kaos]

It's not what you said in your previous post - if I may be so bold as to quote you:

"I think is quite easy for us to judge other cultures when they are full of hatred and bigotry."

[sakyamuni]

Always the same excuse... The issue is not to judge another culture. The only valid question you need to ask yourself is: do I think that living in a place where domestic workers have little or no rights, women can be "disciplined" by their husbands, opponents can be sentenced to years in jail for a comment on twitter, is that what I believe is a normal place to live? Is it what I wish for myself, for my friends and family ? And why would it be different for others ? Some countries have different approach, some may take more time than others to reach the goal, but that doesn't mean you can just say "it's another culture" and end the conversation. Or is it just because you don't care as it happens far away and you know you won't have to suffer from it ?
And, just as a reminder, countries like UEA are far from countries suffering from western's interference. Quite the opposite lately I would say. To quote a recent Human Rights Watch report: The United Arab Emirates (UAE) often uses its affluence to mask the government’s serious human rights problems.

[Deleted]

You think the disparity between rich and poor in our culture is bad. Get outside of the gated communities that westerners live in in the UAE and tell me that this event is warranted in the context they've placed it.

[Daniel Silk]

Are people saying that these artists should refuse to go and paint there due to these issues?

Is it about the location? Do think it they should be doing the work on the streets with the Artists picking the locations? Away from where people in power want it.

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2016 14:54:12 GMT 1 @martedanielsen said:

You think the disparity between rich and poor in our culture is bad. Get outside of the gated communities that westerners live in in the UAE and tell me that this event is warrented in the context they've placed it.

How are you measuring inequality? Assume you're including those that are residing on a short term work visa, or is it only citizens of that country? If it's the latter I'd suggest the UAE is much more equitable than the UK. If the former, wouldn't a comparison be better with the nations they have arrived from than the one they are going to for short term employment? Inequality/disparity takes many forms and isn't easily defined.

[t3c]

Grooverider..

/thread

[BKBOI]

Apr 4, 2016 15:18:26 GMT 1 @letisss said:

Apr 4, 2016 14:54:12 GMT 1 @martedanielsen said:

You think the disparity between rich and poor in our culture is bad. Get outside of the gated communities that westerners live in in the UAE and tell me that this event is warrented in the context they've placed it.

How are you measuring inequality? Assume you're including those that are residing on a short term work visa, or is it only citizens of that country? If it's the latter I'd suggest the UAE is much more equitable than the UK. If the former, wouldn't a comparison be better with the nations they have arrived from than the one they are going to for short term employment? Inequality/disparity takes many forms and isn't easily defined.

If you are a citizen of UAE you are living well. If you include the migrant workers, yes they are living below the standards the west deems acceptable. But the question really is why do the migrant workers continue to work there if it is really that horrible? Surely they can go home anytime they wish.

[The Origin]

Apr 4, 2016 11:19:26 GMT 1 ANE* said:

Apr 4, 2016 11:05:01 GMT 1 Argiebaji said:

ANE* I think we will have to agree to disagree.

A simple search on the internet finds issues within the UAE on many levels. However you live there so we will have to leave it at that. See links below for recent UAE Human rights Stories .. I can find more if you wish?

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/19/us-canadian-libyan-businessmen-charged-united-arab-emirates-torture-terrorism-accusations

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/14/businessmen-uae-tortured-into-confessions-un-report

www.theguardian.com/law/2015/dec/22/gay-british-man-avoids-extradition-to-dubai

Yeah, I guess we can discuss about it during hours but again, if we look closely, I am sure we can find dirty laundry everywhere. UAE is not perfect but I believe it is on a good way. At least effort are done to make things better. I am definitely not saying it is the best country in the world but I cannot let clichés about it go through when it is totally exaggerated or unfair.

We are here for art so let's talk art again...

My last purchase (yesterday):

Slightly off topic but that Vhils is absolutely stunning. Congratulations.

And putting the ethical debate to one side for a moment - some of these walls are fantastic. 

[jmds]

Apr 4, 2016 16:54:00 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

Apr 4, 2016 15:18:26 GMT 1 @letisss said:

How are you measuring inequality? Assume you're including those that are residing on a short term work visa, or is it only citizens of that country? If it's the latter I'd suggest the UAE is much more equitable than the UK. If the former, wouldn't a comparison be better with the nations they have arrived from than the one they are going to for short term employment? Inequality/disparity takes many forms and isn't easily defined.

If you are a citizen of UAE you are living well. If you include the migrant workers, yes they are living below the standards the west deems acceptable. But the question really is why do the migrant workers continue to work there if it is really that horrible? Surely they can go home anytime they wish.

Apart from the number of cases where migrant workers have their passports taken from them by their employers...

[Prints Charles]

Apr 4, 2016 16:54:00 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

Apr 4, 2016 15:18:26 GMT 1 @letisss said:

If you are a citizen of UAE you are living well. If you include the migrant workers, yes they are living below the standards the west deems acceptable. But the question really is why do the migrant workers continue to work there if it is really that horrible? Surely they can go home anytime they wish.

Not if they've had to hand over their passports

(Didn't mean to quote myself and JMDS beat me to it anyway)

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2016 16:54:00 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

Apr 4, 2016 15:18:26 GMT 1 @letisss said:

How are you measuring inequality? Assume you're including those that are residing on a short term work visa, or is it only citizens of that country? If it's the latter I'd suggest the UAE is much more equitable than the UK. If the former, wouldn't a comparison be better with the nations they have arrived from than the one they are going to for short term employment? Inequality/disparity takes many forms and isn't easily defined.

If you are a citizen of UAE you are living well. If you include the migrant workers, yes they are living below the standards the west deems acceptable. But the question really is why do the migrant workers continue to work there if it is really that horrible? Surely they can go home anytime they wish.

Does that statement come in the "seig heil" edition ?

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2016 17:24:28 GMT 1 jmds said:

Apr 4, 2016 16:54:00 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

If you are a citizen of UAE you are living well. If you include the migrant workers, yes they are living below the standards the west deems acceptable. But the question really is why do the migrant workers continue to work there if it is really that horrible? Surely they can go home anytime they wish.

Apart from the number of cases where migrant workers have their passports taken from them by their employers...

It's against the law to do this in the UAE as it is in the UK. But tragically this and worse happens everywhere even in affluent areas of London. So much so that it was only last year that the British government passed the modern slavery act and according to this article there are c.13,000 slaves living in the UK.
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/29/13000-slaves-uk-four-times-higher-previously-thought

Here's an example of one such person's story of coming to Britain to find her freedom taken away.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26769349

I'm not doubting this happens much more in the UAE than the UK, but we should open our eyes to what's happening on our doorsteps first.

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2016 15:12:50 GMT 1 Daniel Silk said:

Are people saying that these artists should refuse to go and paint there due to these issues?

Is it about the location? Do think it they should be doing the work on the streets with the Artists picking the locations? Away from where people in power want it.

It's a good question Dan. For me, all public work automatically includes the site and context of the environment it's placed in alongside who commissioned or validated it. Work on the street comes with a lot of additional meaning aka baggage, other than that which the artist intends. This is the nature of public art. In this case, considering who commissioned the work and the restrictions that applied, you've got the Street Art equivalent of Janet Jackson performing at a Sheik's wedding. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself, unless of course you consider the term "Street Art" as having some inherent value to the community that work and support it. Which a lot of people do. The hypocrisy of a few of these artists is a bit of an eye opener, the banality of a lot of the work not so.

[Daniel Silk]

I guess in some ways the Art is being used to give that area bit of Street Cred, and Dubai needs to buy it just so they can give all these flashy new developments a gritty fashionable edge to attract people there?
So I understand this rubs people up the wrong way, but also I think very few of us would turn down this opportunity if it was offered to us.

[sakyamuni]

Apr 4, 2016 18:15:46 GMT 1 @letisss said:

Apr 4, 2016 17:24:28 GMT 1 jmds said:

Apart from the number of cases where migrant workers have their passports taken from them by their employers...

It's against the law to do this in the UAE as it is in the UK. But tragically this and worse happens everywhere even in affluent areas of London. So much so that it was only last year that the British government passed the modern slavery act and according to this article there are c.13,000 slaves living in the UK.
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/29/13000-slaves-uk-four-times-higher-previously-thought

Here's an example of one such person's story of coming to Britain to find her freedom taken away.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26769349

I'm not doubting this happens much more in the UAE than the UK, but we should open our eyes to what's happening on our doorsteps first.

Letiss, I fear you're missing the point: you can't compare a situation that is the result of criminal activities, even if sometimes Governments don't do as much as they should to put an end to it and a system that is the result of an official regulation established and promoted by the State. Recent improvements are still not sufficient to protect foreign workers.

The kafala sponsorship system, which operates in all Gulf Cooperation Council states, ties migrant workers to individual employers who act as their visa sponsors. In practice, the system severely restricts workers’ ability to change employers. The system gives employers inordinate power over workers by entitling them to revoke migrant workers’ sponsorship at will, thereby removing their right to remain in the UAE and making them liable to deportation. Under new regulations from 2010, workers covered under the labor law can switch employers in certain cases. However, domestic workers—who are excluded from this reach—cannot transfer employers before their contract ends or they receive their employer’s consent.

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2016 18:45:27 GMT 1 sakyamuni said:

Apr 4, 2016 18:15:46 GMT 1 @letisss said:

It's against the law to do this in the UAE as it is in the UK. But tragically this and worse happens everywhere even in affluent areas of London. So much so that it was only last year that the British government passed the modern slavery act and according to this article there are c.13,000 slaves living in the UK.
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/29/13000-slaves-uk-four-times-higher-previously-thought

Here's an example of one such person's story of coming to Britain to find her freedom taken away.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26769349

I'm not doubting this happens much more in the UAE than the UK, but we should open our eyes to what's happening on our doorsteps first.

Letiss, I fear you're missing the point: you can't compare a situation that is the result of criminal activities, even if sometimes Governments don't do as much as they should to put an end to it and a system that is the result of an official regulation established and promoted by the State. Recent improvements are still not sufficient to protect foreign workers.

The kafala sponsorship system, which operates in all Gulf Cooperation Council states, ties migrant workers to individual employers who act as their visa sponsors. In practice, the system severely restricts workers’ ability to change employers. The system gives employers inordinate power over workers by entitling them to revoke migrant workers’ sponsorship at will, thereby removing their right to remain in the UAE and making them liable to deportation. Under new regulations from 2010, workers covered under the labor law can switch employers in certain cases. However, domestic workers—who are excluded from this reach—cannot transfer employers before their contract ends or they receive their employer’s consent.

Is it that unusual to be 'freed' via a letter from your employer? I have gone through this when working on a visa in South Korea, which has a good human rights record.

I think you're slightly missing the point of the articles I posted. The fact that the UK has now imposed such draconian restrictions on non-EEA region migrants means when labourers/domestic workers come to the UK, often with the same promises of that of Dubai, there is a high chance it won't be via a visa at all. This is because the UK T2 visa requires the migrant to have sponsor giving a £35k income guarantee and not many domestic jobs offer that. So, if you are only talking about domestic work, it could be argued that these workers are at greater risk of exploitation due to the UK government's policies. Rest assured they are still coming to the UK, visa or no visa.

It would probably make a very interesting study tracking non EEA migrant 'domestic workers' arriving in Britain and comparing their rights to that of the UAE. I think you'd be surprised with the outcomes.

[Segment]

A wise man once said.

Blinded by the lights, Blinded by the lights, Dizzy new heights!

[Deleted]

It's a very fine line. There are lots of countries where free speech is outlawed or that allow free speech as long as it is pro governement or pro the regime in power. Cuba is one country where some left journo on telly said he was proud the way Castro stood up to the US. Naive me always thought Castro was a dictator who opressed the people and prevented free speech and even internet access for a long time. Maybe allowing Guantanamo meant the US left him alone?

If the artists want to make art in different countries it's their choice and they know why they accept the painting gig. Whether it's for the money or for some sort of pr campaign by a country that wants to attract tourists and buy up more UK and european companies and property showing a respectable face.

Dubai does have some great projects and does buy a lot of western technology and expertise. If commerce can be seperated from religions then thats a good thing. There again i'm not a fan of any religion.

[.dappy]

... close up of piece above ...

http://instagram.com/p/BDwHPByt4sL

[notudon]

I live and work in Dubai and am looking forward to visiting the walls this weekend and often afterwards. Amother reason I love Dubai. It is a great cultural melting pot where those here get along and live and work together and those who don't live here seem to complain and impose their own cultural biases

From the pictures and videos, the walls look great. This is being done at a new retail development. It is worth pointing out that a few weeks ago another retail and residential community had a 3D wall art show that utilized local UAE and GCC talent as well as international. It isn't just the imported talent, there is home grown local as well and the number of walls and businesses that support them is growing.

Glad to see Eine did a wall, his fourth (one was a temporary vinyl wrap) in the UAE in 2 years. Hope this becomes an annual event like Wynwood Walls in Miami. Just wish I had known in advance and met the artists.  I met D*Face in L.A. on a work trip 1.5 years ago and we were discussing Dubai and how he should come over and do a wall.  Glad to see he did. 

[BKBOI]

Thank you for throwing in your 2 cents on this topic. I have never lived there but I do not complain about how they run about their affairs. I however was born and raised in a country that is a major source of the migrant labor in UAE. I have seen how a lot of these migrant workers return back to my country with enough wealth to provide the families they have left behind a good life.

If people want to discuss about inequality, why don't the Europeans look into their own backyard like France and Belgium where their citizens who belong to a certain ethnic background are being disenfranchised due to institutional biases.

Each country has its own faults. But I am always happy when a country takes effort to invest in some good art!

[Deleted]

Apr 6, 2016 12:30:08 GMT 1 BKBOI said:

Thank you for throwing in your 2 cents on this topic. I have never lived there but I do not complain about how they run about their affairs. I however was born and raised in a country that is a major source of the migrant labor in UAE. I have seen how a lot of these migrant workers return back to my country with enough wealth to provide the families they have left behind a good life.

If people want to discuss about inequality, why don't the Europeans look into their own backyard like France and Belgium where their citizens who belong to a certain ethnic background are being disenfranchised due to institutional biases.

Each country has its own faults. But I am always happy when a country takes effort to invest in some good art!

 I have lived in France for a few years now and the citizens you mention need to look at themselves and their own attitude.

I get bored with the blame the white man attitude thats promoted these days.

 Dubai is an arab state with an arab culture and thats fine by me. I can understand why it does not adopt full democracy and equality for women in everything and also why it does not accept migrants and refugees the same way that europe does.

[Daniel Silk]

Dubai exhibition focuses on plight of refugees

[Daniel Silk]

Really interesting video well worth watching



Dubai Art Documentary — All About Art & Life In Dubai

[Daniel Silk]

www.worldartdubai.com/



6 - 9 APRIL 2016
SHEIKH SAEED HALL 3
DUBAI WORLD TRADE CENTRE
2PM - 9PM DAILY - REGISTER ON THE DOOR!
AED15 ENTRY - KIDS UNDER 16 GO FREE!

[Deleted]

Apr 8, 2016 13:34:43 GMT 1 Daniel Silk said:

Dubai exhibition focuses on plight of refugees

Has Dubai taken in Syrian refugees?

This article is interesting as to how gulf states accept Syrians. www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/why-the-rich-gulf-states-are-saying-no-to-syrias-refugees/news-story/9a2cd799330d0502b3db1f8fe455e7a9

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/09/syrias-refugee-crisis-in-numbers/

This article looks like Dubai has given Syrians shelter but doesn't say if teh Syrians actually entered under temporary work permits?

www.thenational.ae/uae/government/100000-syrians-move-to-uae-since-2011

  Regarding refugees. Would the Gulf states give shelter to Christian or non muslim refugees in the way that Europe gives shelter to all regardless of their race and religion or non religion.

[cyberkid]

Curated by Rom Levy, the exhibition will be featuring brand new works from: Andrew Schoultz, Kenton Parker, RETNA, Andrew Faris, Paul Insect, BAST, eL Seed, Jenny Sharaf and Word to Mother.

If you are in the area, the show will be opening on May 11th at 6PM @ Warehouse 38, Street 8A, Al Quoz 1 in Dubai. The buyer’s preview list can be requested at [e-mail]

[cyberkid]