[ala399]

Is it my imagination, or do I detect a definit/significant price drop across all signed/unsigned Banksys?

With the recent stock market crash if there is downward trend its sure to dip further before it levels.

Any thoughts?

[BONGO]

BONGO THINK THAT WHEN THE CREDIT SQUEEZE COMES, ART IS THE FIRST LUXURY TO BE DUMPED.

BONGO THINK IF YOU LIKE THE ART, THE CURRENT FINANCIAL VALUATION IS UNIMPORTANT

[mcnuts]

buy buy buy - sell sell sell

[®at]

Its august
quiet month for lots of things

[tomhills1]

what stock market 'crash'

prices go up, they level out, they may drop slightly. this is hardly a crash, values and markets halving overnight would be. the stock market is falling but then look where it was at at the start for the year, it's still up.

[tokyojeff]

Bongo is right, it's not necessarily stock prices that are or will impact luxury purchases but the CREDIT squeeze that will. I haven't seen a global market intervention like this in many a moon and it will get worse before it gets better and most certainly will have a negative impact on art prices. That said, it will hopefully weed out some of the flippers and bring valuations to more affordable levels, well one can only hope.

[organics1]

tomhills1 said:

what stock market 'crash'

prices go up, they level out, they may drop slightly. this is hardly a crash, values and markets halving overnight would be. the stock market is falling but then look where it was at at the start for the year, it's still up.

I agree to a certain degree LBW but I started a thread yesterday titled Doom & Gloom because I just have a gut feeling about things. Off-course the stock market fluctuates throughout the year but this is the first time in ten years we've seen property prices drop in London. Interest rates have nearly doubled in 4 years, the Dollar/Pound exchange rate is hitting the tourism market hard and the country is in a horrible debt crisis. Not forgetting the continuing rising cost of crude oil and the on-going war in the Middle-East. For my sins (and please don't minus any respect points for this) I used to be an Estate Agent for many years and before me my Father and he tells me about the mood of the nation before the last recession and describes the current situation to be quite similar. Also I keep a close eye on Mortgage borrowers reporting and there have been more repossessions in the last 24 months than there were in the previous 4 years and predicted to rise. I don't mean to sound pessimistic but more realistic and honest. If there's anything to sound positive about please let me know but I just can't see it and will agree with Bongo when he says that it's Luxury's items, art being on of them that will suffer first.

[hankpank]

It was the same last august. It was the last time you had a chance of getting a Banksy for a reasonable price on the secondary market. Then came Paris Hilton and Barely Legal and everything exploded.

Guess it's the english holidays.

[organics1]

organics1 said:

tomhills1 said:

what stock market 'crash'

prices go up, they level out, they may drop slightly. this is hardly a crash, values and markets halving overnight would be. the stock market is falling but then look where it was at at the start for the year, it's still up.

I agree to a certain degree LBW but I started a thread yesterday titled Doom & Gloom because I just have a gut feeling about things. Off-course the stock market fluctuates throughout the year but this is the first time in ten years we've seen property prices drop in London. Interest rates have nearly doubled in 4 years, the Dollar/Pound exchange rate is hitting the tourism market hard and the country is in a horrible debt crisis. Not forgetting the continuing rising cost of crude oil and the on-going war in the Middle-East. For my sins (and please don't minus any respect points for this) I used to be an Estate Agent for many years and before me my Father and he tells me about the mood of the nation before the last recession and describes the current situation to be quite similar. Also I keep a close eye on Mortgage borrowers reporting and there have been more repossessions in the last 24 months than there were in the previous 4 years and predicted to rise. I don't mean to sound pessimistic but more realistic and honest. If there's anything to sound positive about please let me know but I just can't see it and will agree with Bongo when he says that it's Luxury's items, art being on of them that will suffer first.

Let me just add that I hope I'm wrong and reading too much into this and that it is just the summer holidays slowing things down

[corblimeylimey]

Although Banksy prices are lower than they were three weeks ago they're still much higher (about 50% higher) than they were three months ago (for the unsigned that is), wouldn't worry about it just enjoy the art on the wall.

[adrscib]

the point of extreme pessimism is the best time to buy.... but for those who have bought to resell they will be pressurised to sell at cost or at a small loss... so yes prices are coming down... furthermore the banksy vs warhol exhibition fail to generate the enthusiam desired...

i own no banksy at the moment but if prices get attractive again i will definitely jump the band wagon.... and as said by many ppl if you have bought art for the sake of art you dont have to worry about the current value...

also the fact that banksy failed to issue new print releases have turned ppl in search of the next riser... like adam neate and other lesser known street artist...

now with the "credit crunch", these same buyers are realising what they have done and cannot sell these prints so they might own some banksy which they can afford to sell at a discount because they still have a good profit...

however i have noted quite a number of ppl who are trying to offload banksies thru this forum which is pretty unusual... but i believe this will be short term (even because its summer and ppl change their spending habits into holidaying and max their credit cards), so i would not worry about his long term value, however i would worry about the value of other less established artists...

[tomhills1]

interestingly organics has stated how all the necassary factors are in place for an economic downturn at least, maybe even a recession.
a couple of points, firstly since the last recession in this country there have been two almost worldwide recessions, both of which failed to have an impact in this country. house prices will, at worst, level off. there is still far more demand for housing than supply and all the major housebuilders will continue to stifle new-builds to maintain current values and their profits.
also, historically, interest rates are still very low. yes, they may well have risen 5 times in a year but so what, in the grand scheme of things anything below 7% represents good value.

it may be as simple as it is summer, people are either going, on, or just got back from holiday. they are going out spending money more as there is more to do and therefore have less money to spend on art. anthony micallef and adam neate have seen fantastic appreciation recently whilst banksy has remained consistant, with maybe a slight dip/correction. with another release or some new work, the whole banksy star will probably go mad again.

what has happened in the last year is exceptional and will probably not be repeated, now we are all more likely to see steady, sustained, progreesive appreciation perhaps only going scu-wiff when a show or release takes place. all that is happening is that you can no longer buy a print, sit on it for a few weeks and double your money.

a few years back you could buy a house, do nothing to it and sell it six months later for a 10% profit. these days you won't lose money but you'll have to work hard to make some.

growth is steady, maybe that is what's happening now to banksy prices

[carlito]

the damage has already done for those of us who didn't get on the housing ladder before the recent years ridiculous rises... UGH

[a4mnt]

Bring on a price drop. I want to buy a Pulp Fiction still!

And a Queen Victoria.

[corblimeylimey]

Interest rates are still really low, a lot of you aren't old enough to remember the eighties and the problems that caused (bitch Thatcher) the rates are going up at 0.25% I remember them going up in 1% to 2% jumps with the rate being between 10% - 15% instead of the 5.75% we have now.

Check out this table for a quick glance history
www.houseweb.co.uk/house/market/irfig.html

[neutral]

a4mnt said:

Bring on a price drop. I want to buy a Pulp Fiction still!

And a Queen Victoria.

Ditto, I want a CWSB still ...

[Yessir]

If you have bought art as an investment, or for quick returns at profit, in the not to distant future, you COULD be in TROUBLE.

If like I suspect many of us on this forum have bought art that we love irrespective of value, who cares what the world markets are doing.

If anything I think the economy going into decline can be a good thing for ART, as these circumstances cause a "CORRECTION", where the majority of art investors "DUMP", their art investments into the hands of genuine art lovers.

[robstar]

You wait til Christmas! Christmas on Ebay things go CRAZY!!! Most people are out of the UK right now which is why there might be a dip in prices, but to be honest it looks pretty healthy on Ebay right now. And I agree, if you buy art you love, you never have to worry about prices changes anyway! That's always the best idea. I only wanted to sell a few of my prints as a way of paying for a painting by a new artist I love, that was I don't feel guilty as I'm not getting profit, only a new art work I love! x

[slacker]

organics1 said:

organics1 said:

I agree to a certain degree LBW but I started a thread yesterday titled Doom & Gloom because I just have a gut feeling about things. Off-course the stock market fluctuates throughout the year but this is the first time in ten years we've seen property prices drop in London. Interest rates have nearly doubled in 4 years, the Dollar/Pound exchange rate is hitting the tourism market hard and the country is in a horrible debt crisis. Not forgetting the continuing rising cost of crude oil and the on-going war in the Middle-East. For my sins (and please don't minus any respect points for this) I used to be an Estate Agent for many years and before me my Father and he tells me about the mood of the nation before the last recession and describes the current situation to be quite similar. Also I keep a close eye on Mortgage borrowers reporting and there have been more repossessions in the last 24 months than there were in the previous 4 years and predicted to rise. I don't mean to sound pessimistic but more realistic and honest. If there's anything to sound positive about please let me know but I just can't see it and will agree with Bongo when he says that it's Luxury's items, art being on of them that will suffer first.

Let me just add that I hope I'm wrong and reading too much into this and that it is just the summer holidays slowing things down

unless you have every banksy that you would like to own (which most of us don't) then a slowdown is good thing surely?

[bobbymeachamjr]

Ok peeps just ask yourself this.... "Do I need to obtain these art PRINTS by going into credit card debt?". IMO going into debt to obtain something is bad enough but when that something is a REPLICA of something = bad news down the line

[ABC]

Id say the increase was due to expectation of the Hospital show. Before the Andipa show prices were steady, after the show they climbed fast. The investors IMO were snapping up stuff incase the values went up even further, the difference being this time was the fact that the Hospital show is crap.

[keepingitreal]

Oh my god! Panic! sell everything you have the Banksy phenomenon is over.

Come on! Think about it, in the art world Banksy is only 7 years old, his art and the huge impact it has had is not just a fad and don't forget how far up the food chain his work has climbed in a very short time. The only reason prices are so high is simply supply and demand & for all any of us know his work might never peak in value in our life times.

Put it up on the wall & enjoy it!

[tomhills1]

i think this thread is a prime example a bored saturday conjecture debate. i don't care though coz spurs lost ;D

[pw]

abcollings said:

Id say the increase was due to expectation of the Hospital show. Before the Andipa show prices were steady, after the show they climbed fast. The investors IMO were snapping up stuff incase the values went up even further, the difference being this time was the fact that the Hospital show is crap.

prices may or may not have been affected by the hospital show, but there are several auctions coming up in september, october and november that will undoubtedly create more interest and force prices up further.
in september sothebys are selling banksy prints for the first time, which is a clear sign that they think hes now a big player and will be around long-term. previously they would only sell originals.

[bobbymeachamjr]

Its easy to say "Put the art up on the wall and enjoy it - irregardless of the price".
But when you're paying 10K for a print and the market is 1/5 that its kinda hard to enjoy. What peeps tend to forget - Banksy is a cultural phenomenon known more for his pranks than the art itself. Phenomenons come and go and where will the art by itself stand? Human pysychology is a wonderful disease. Banksy craze = thoughts of new careers as art investors. Whos the next banksy? There can not be another banksy.

[bobbymeachamjr]

pw said:

abcollings said:

Id say the increase was due to expectation of the Hospital show. Before the Andipa show prices were steady, after the show they climbed fast. The investors IMO were snapping up stuff incase the values went up even further, the difference being this time was the fact that the Hospital show is crap.

prices may or may not have been affected by the hospital show, but there are several auctions coming up in september, october and november that will undoubtedly create more interest and force prices up further.
in september sothebys are selling banksy prints for the first time, which is a clear sign that they think hes now a big player and will be around long-term. previously they would only sell originals.

If you pull the strings and you see easy millions to be made on the lucrative banksy "replicas" business - wouldnt you hype it up and have auctions too? Previously only sold originals? Can they make more? lol

*diclosure - I have more than 2 signed banksys

[dgb133]

Like I said, remember all of this, it will be a story to tell the grandkids.

This stuff will continue to remain very expensive BUT what we saw isn't normal. Such widespread and rampant flipping of a print for several hundred and several thousands of profit is not normal! (Banksy, Beejoir, Choe, Micallef, Neate etc.) Things are going to come back down to earth for a bit in my opinion. Doesn't sound like it's hit the UK quite as bad but there is major worries in the states about the increasing amount of people defaulting on loans and their mortgages. And "technically speaking" if you follow stock charting -some pretty strong damage has been done to the US markets after they peaked out at a record high. Although it's about due for a small bounce. Don't let that fool you.

On the one hand I wouldn't mind Banksy prints getting cheaper. But I also think it's going to be harder to get a lot of money for stuff that I already own.

[johnas]

bobbymeachamjr said:

Ok peeps just ask yourself this.... "Do I need to obtain these art PRINTS by going into credit card debt?". IMO going into debt to obtain something is bad enough but when that something is a REPLICA of something = bad news down the line

Amen!

[organics1]

havana07 said:

organics1 said:

I agree to a certain degree LBW but I started a thread yesterday titled Doom & Gloom because I just have a gut feeling about things. Off-course the stock market fluctuates throughout the year but this is the first time in ten years we've seen property prices drop in London. Interest rates have nearly doubled in 4 years, the Dollar/Pound exchange rate is hitting the tourism market hard and the country is in a horrible debt crisis. Not forgetting the continuing rising cost of crude oil and the on-going war in the Middle-East. For my sins (and please don't minus any respect points for this) I used to be an Estate Agent for many years and before me my Father and he tells me about the mood of the nation before the last recession and describes the current situation to be quite similar. Also I keep a close eye on Mortgage borrowers reporting and there have been more repossessions in the last 24 months than there were in the previous 4 years and predicted to rise. I don't mean to sound pessimistic but more realistic and honest. If there's anything to sound positive about please let me know but I just can't see it and will agree with Bongo when he says that it's Luxury's items, art being on of them that will suffer first.

Absolute rubbish! One minute your talking up Neate Portrait prints at 20 grand and beyond and Aza better sells his CWSB for it, Now this! As nuart says...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

See what you've gone and done Nuart......You trend setter ;D

[numusic]

organics1 said:

havana07 said:

Absolute rubbish! One minute your talking up Neate Portrait prints at 20 grand and beyond and Aza better sells his CWSB for it, Now this! As nuart says...
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

See what you've gone and done Nuart......You trend setter ;D

Maybe we should get a little z counter next the respect system !