[miguelitollanos]

Hello

I have just been offered a flag as a second chance and I feel that it is a bit weird, the item number is 140134309481

Basically it looks like if somebody pushed the price up to find my top bid and then emailed me straight away saying that the top seller pulled out

the buyer doesnt have loads of history (but then i dont either) but he seemed to work the whole thing very quickly...

can you help? thanks a lot

Cheers

M.

[manchestermike]

Assuming you're "Bidder 10" then I think you may be right. Offer to buy it for £620

[miguelitollanos]

Would you trust him/her after (assuming) they did something like that?

[manchestermike]

I don't see why not... I think the print is real, they were just trying to get a higher price... immoral yes, but I imagine they still want to sell

[corblimeylimey]

With the last few selling for
27 June £625
1 July £645
4 July £700

I think an offer of around £630 - £660 would be fair, the winning bid with 0 feedback does look sus, so could of won it without going to £680 by the looks of it.

Obviously make sure the sellers account hasn't been hi-jacked, and let us know how you got on.

[Tyler Durden]

Beautiful print, but it doesn't mean you should pay over the odds if you're feeling like you're being ripped off. Take the above advice on board, think about what you would be happy with parting for it, then stick by your guns.

[dgb133]

This is so common with Banksy, it's either over emotional bidders maxing out their cards and who bid things up more than they can afford and back out, or it's people shilling their own auctions in this environment of greed. I think it's pretty telling how many of these auctions get relisted or second chance deals. So many of these people bidding this stuff up can barely afford it.

If you really want the print, offer 625. But if you want my opinon, I'd bet money that this thing will drift back to about 500-550 in time.

[corblimeylimey]

dgb133 said:

This is so common with Banksy, it's either over emotional bidders maxing out their cards and who bid things up more than they can afford and back out, or it's people shilling their own auctions in this environment of greed. I think it's pretty telling how many of these auctions get relisted or second chance deals. So many of these people bidding this stuff up can barely afford it.

If you really want the print, offer 625. But if you want my opinon, I'd bet money that this thing will drift back to about 500-550 in time.

I'm not sure about that, it would be risky to assume, it could carry on rising or stay flat, hindsight will say for sure.

[ratboy]

tell cheeky flag seller to bog off

[ala399]

manchestermike said:

Assuming you're "Bidder 10" then I think you may be right. Offer to buy it for £620

Ditto, But then wait a day befor U pay to ensure Ebay does not flag this as a scam.... Thats what happened to the J&J a few weeks back if you guys remember

[dgb133]

If you really want the print, offer 625. But if you want my opinon, I'd bet money that this thing will drift back to about 500-550 in time.

I'm not sure about that, it would be risky to assume, it could carry on rising or stay flat, hindsight will say for sure.

You forgot one, "it could carry on rising or stay flat" ...OR GO DOWN IN PRICE. All three are total possibillities. As another poster mentioned this reminds me exactly of the dot com boom and bust. Time will tell. But don't say you weren't warned. ;D

As far as being risky by assuming it will go up even more by not buying it now, ...you're also taking a chance that it will go down and you will lose money. It's a risk either way. Of course if you love the print fine blah blah blah fine.

But one thing I'm curious about. How many people here own a home? I'd bet the vast vast vast majority of Banksy fans and owners don't even own a home yet. I sure don't. Whether or not they are true fans or collectors doesn't matter these things will continue to hit the market as people need to cash in or even just want to switch up their collection.

[corblimeylimey]

dgb133 said:

If you really want the print, offer 625. But if you want my opinon, I'd bet money that this thing will drift back to about 500-550 in time.

I'm not sure about that, it would be risky to assume, it could carry on rising or stay flat, hindsight will say for sure.

You forgot one, "it could carry on rising or stay flat" ...OR GO DOWN IN PRICE. All three are total possibillities. As another poster mentioned this reminds me exactly of the dot com boom and bust. Time will tell. But don't say you weren't warned. ;D

As far as being risky by assuming it will go up even more by not buying it now, ...you're also taking a chance that it will go down and you will lose money. It's a risk either way. Of course if you love the print fine blah blah blah fine.

But one thing I'm curious about. How many people here own a home? I'd bet the vast vast vast majority of Banksy fans and owners don't even own a home yet. I sure don't. Whether or not they are true fans or collectors doesn't matter these things will continue to hit the market as people need to cash in or even just want to switch up their collection.

I own my own home (well about half of it).

You're right of course, they could go down, but I didn't say that as I was replying to the suggestion that it was certain they would go down, so I was just suggesting the other two possibilities.

and I agree, they'll always be prints hitting the market, whether you own your home or not, more pressing or important things come up that need the money.

[ala399]

Banksy's grip on the art market will only become firmer pricewise. His acceptance by the mainstream art critics will get stronger on a monthly basis, and we can see this with the type of auction houses now hosting his art.

However only signed stuff are in my opinion immune from a price crash. Anything signed with provenance can only go up. The main frenzy is now around the unsigned stuff well within the budget of “ok to do” 20/30 something year olds. If anything is to drop its here.

[dgb133]

Anything signed with provenance can only go up.

he...

will get stronger on a monthly basis

It can only go up!!! Buy Now!!! Guaranteed Investment!!! You'll triple your money in one month's time!!! Sounds like an infomercial 'round here sometimes.

This is the kind of unbridled enthusiasm I'm talking about.

[corblimeylimey]

ala399 said:

Banksy's grip on the art market will only become firmer pricewise. His acceptance by the mainstream art critics will get stronger on a monthly basis, and we can see this with the type of auction houses now hosting his art.

However only signed stuff are in my opinion immune from a price crash. Anything signed with provenance can only go up. The main frenzy is now around the unsigned stuff well within the budget of “ok to do” 20/30 something year olds. If anything is to drop its here.

I dissagree about the signed and unsigned difference that you mention, almost anything could happen, if there's a fall the signed have further to fall and if both went down by 50% the biggest losers obviously would be the people with signed. Also the signed price may stall as it gets too high for most, but the unsigned could carry on rising as there could be more demand, from the larger group of people who can afford them.

I wouldn't try to predict it.

[corblimeylimey]

dgb133 said:

Anything signed with provenance can only go up.

he...

will get stronger on a monthly basis

It can only go up!!! Buy Now!!! Guaranteed Investment!!! You'll triple your money in one month's time!!! Sounds like an infomercial 'round here sometimes.

This is the kind of unbridled enthusiasm I'm talking about.

I kinda agree with you, no one knows what's going to happen, but there are a lot of people with regrets that they didn't pick something up earlier when it was more affordable, and as it is and has been rising for 2 years or more it stands to reason that the lessons learnt are not to hesitate.

You never know the best policy could be to wait three or four years and pick one up for half price, is that what you want to try?

[insite]

"But one thing I'm curious about. How many people here own a home?"

I own my own home, outright, paid cash as well. I do live in a caravan though.

[corblimeylimey]

Well done insite, respect!

[discoduster]

Could be genuine.

High bidder may have been deadbeat zero bidder who 9 times otta 10 don't pay up so instantly save relisting and offer to 2nd highest.

[ala399]

I'm not whipping up a frenzy to buy. I for one look for a steady market.

I make the distinction (maybe unsuccessfully) that the signed stuff will find their way out of ebay in to more established auction outlets in parallel to change of collector demography. For that transition you need proper provenance (not even an “I got an email from Dora” type). That market is drive, and will continue to do so by with huge sums to support their collection from UK and mainly foreign cash. However, unsigned will at least for now remain within the current collector demography (ebay) who has less capital to maintain the momentum pricewise, and more susceptible to any knockon effect to price drops.

[dgb133]

...the signed stuff will find their way out of ebay in to more established auction outlets in parallel to change of collector demography.

Well to a degree it will, but willl take a long time I think. I don't know if that many people will really want to do that. You usually have to wait about 6 months before they can auction your piece. And then wait another 1-2 months to get paid. They also take about a 20% fee, charge you an illustration fee and an insurance fee of about 1%. (compared to ebays about 4-5%) I also suspect that they might report the amount of money they pay you to the tax man? So the print would have to sell for 15% more than what it would sell for on ebay for you to make more money. And you still have to wait almost a year to get paid. Most people sell this stuff becaus ethey need the cash now.

For that transition you need proper provenance

I don't think it's quite as rigid as you might suspect. An email from POW is I'm sure fine. And they may take it with or without that email. Just as long as the piece is good condition and isn't suspicious. I think you'd be surprised how many fine art prints are lacking an original receipt at this point. I know this because I've enquired myself about selling something and was put off by it all. WOuld rather sell for less privately than deal with all the trouble.

And even still I honestly think Banksy prints are more than fair valued even by serious deep pocket collectors terms. I doubt any other artist alive right now is selling for like amount for editions this large. Well maybe a couple bnut very rare. Additionally the rich will continue to be able to buy new Banksy prints for as long as he lives even if he goes exclusively to Laz who might charge 5, 10, 20k per print. Banksy is still pretty young and should continue to make lots of prints.

[dgb133]

I own my own home (well about half of it).

And congrats on halfway to owning a home Blimey.

Can't wait for the day I don't have to pay rent anymore.

But can you afford to buy a barcode for 10k too?

[corblimeylimey]

dgb133 said:

I own my own home (well about half of it).

And congrats on halfway to owning a home Blimey.

Can't wait for the day I don't have to pay rent anymore.

But can you afford to buy a barcode for 10k too?

No way, in fact the mortgage on my very modest victorian terrace (in Devon, no where near London) if it were for 100% of the value of the house would cost over £1500 per month! + nearly £200 a month for council tax and water rates.

Owning a house is a double edged sword, you could rent a house cheaper than paying the mortgage on one, and you've got to do all the maintenance, which can be pricey, but you know that you won't have to possibly move every 6 months and you can make it how you like it (well, within budget)

[insite]

corblimeylimey said:

Well done insite, respect!

Thanks mate I think that's the first time I've ever got respect for that ;D

[kat455437]

Hello there. What controversy MY print has caused. Im a genuine ebayer who is just trying to sell my print so i can get out of my student debt. When i was watching the bidding this afternoon to my joy i saw someone had bidded on it £700, only to send me the following email 5mins later

Hi there - I am very sorry - I have just received an email notification regards your listing; there was a mistake in the bid and we thought a provisional note had been place - we didn't realise this was final offer, we're really sorry. We are prepared to pay a relisting fee if needed, let us know.
We hope you are able to sell this to the second highest bidder.
Mr XX

So not knowing what to do, and needing the money asap! i offered it to the top 2 highest bidders. Which one of which is apparently on here.

So unless someone buys the print from my second chance ebay, im oging to have to re-list it.

Has anyone else experienced annoying ebayers like this?

[dgb133]

You never know the best policy could be to wait three or four years and pick one up for half price, is that what you want to try?

Yeah, I'm willing to wait. I do have one Banksy print U/S and I would really love 2 or 3 others but a couple things, I also have a nice little collection of prints and things by other artists that keeps me happy, aside from Banksy there are still a lot of other artists I'd like to own which are more affordable, still a good investment and more stable at this point.

And three I've gotten pretty good at tempering my emotions when it comes to this stuff. I know what it's like to feel like you have to have a print at any cost. Because when I first started buying art that's what I did a few times. I paid top dollar on a couple things. As I've become more experienced I've become much better at finding deals and much better at not letting my emotions control how much I spend. And also because I've seen other artists work go up and drop myself. So I'm extra cautious. And dare I say cheap! Rather I prefer frugal!

[corblimeylimey]

dgb133 said:

You never know the best policy could be to wait three or four years and pick one up for half price, is that what you want to try?

Yeah, I'm willing to wait. I do have one Banksy print U/S and I would really love 2 or 3 others but a couple things, I also have a nice little collection of prints and things by other artists that keeps me happy, aside from Banksy there are still a lot of other artists I'd like to own which are more affordable, still a good investment and more stable at this point.

And three I've gotten pretty good at tempering my emotions when it comes to this stuff. I know what it's like to feel like you have to have a print at any cost. Because when I first started buying art that's what I did a few times. I paid top dollar on a couple things. As I've become more experienced I've become much better at finding deals and much better at not letting my emotions control how much I spend. And also because I've seen other artists work go up and drop myself. So I'm extra cautious. And dare I say cheap! Rather I prefer frugal!

Well done, that's how I've become to! It seems that this art business can take you two ways, one is up the ladder to the serious expensive stuff, which if you're not wealthy isn't possible anyway, or you start to become very choosey, you control your emotions and start to root out the good, inexpensive, art that you like but will also have potential perhaps (although you can't really lose anyway due to the cost).

IMO it's more fun and more difficult than just having a huge pile of dosh and spending several thousand on something by an artist that's already big and hyped.