[wildbill]

is all it takes to make a difference. Please take a minute to sign this petition........

www.lifenets.net/darfur.htm

[stuey09]

wtf

[wildbill]

stuey09 said:

wtf

little technical difficulty there

had to do it the old fashion way and link it up.;D

should be good to go and ready to sign

[stuey09]

Noble sentiments billiam and if only petitions worked. From experience, a no fly zone over this area would not stop the killings. Any intervention would only provide a short term pause in a ruthless determination to destroy those in the south.

Sorry, bit of a rant. I'll stick to DB's politics in future.

[wildbill]

its a start. Petitions can be very powerful motivators to get these lazy fatass politicians off there butts especially with elections coming up. Bush thinks that all he has to do is issue some sanctions and everything will work itself out.. These people are being exterminated and the whole word is just sitting around watching.

I'd be stoked if people would just watch the video and learn a little something about whats going on over there. I can't imagine that anyone would not want to sign after educating themselves about the issue.

[tomhills1]

i'm alright jack. that seems to be the general consensus when it comes to such atrocities. how long did it take in yugoslavia and rwanda for the rest of the world to sit up and take any notice?

my worry is something even more catostrophic has to occur before anyone will grow a spine a do owt. it may be a cliche but if there was oil.........................

i've signed the petition but i really think it will take an inexcusable act of genocide before anyone i have the option of voting for dares to get their hands dirty

[wildbill]

Thanks Tom ;D

I thought the same thing and was not at all shocked to find out that in fact there is OIL (a lot of it), and thats what this conflict is all about. China and various Muslim groups are funding it all and encouraging these atrocities to continue so that the oil will continue to flow.

www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html


have you ever heard of this guy who lives in Chelsea and is also funding the regime: Friedhelm Eronat?

www.guardian.co.uk/sudan/story/0,14658,1503470,00.html

[Ågentßacardi]

I've (unfortunately) grown very cynical when it comes to these things. I don't think petitions work at all. It's just like this group of people in Los Angeles who get together every Friday at a major road intersection picketing with signs like "BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW", "END THE WAR", "IMPEACH BUSH", etc... people who drive by honk in agreement, but what good does that do?? At my college, there was a day when students organized a walk-out to protest the war. Again, noble sentiment, but what does that do?? You think Bush is gonna read about it and go "Oh, gee, the students walked out, I think I should withdraw the troops"? Hell, no! I very much doubt that word of these stunts would even get to the White House!

I'm not bashing the efforts of the people at all. It's much better than not doing anything, and it's extremely admirable and noble. The hearts and passions of the people are definitely in the right place. But unfortunately, it's simply not enough, to the point that there's little difference between doing these things and not doing anything at all IMO (e.g., the war's still going on, Bush is still president, etc.). I really wish things were different, but judging from history and recent experiences, it's not even gonna make a ripple in the pond. The Big Machine is simply too powerful. It's a sad, sad situation.

As for Darfur... we all know that things would be different if there were huge oil deposits under western Sudan. Just like things would be different in the middle east today if there were no oil under there.

The world's gone mad.

[mcnuts]

fair play AB but what can be done? What, as an individual, can one do? Thoughts?

[wildbill]

”Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed It’s the only thing that ever has.” –Margaret Mead

[stuey09]

mcnuts said:

fair play AB but what can be done? What, as an individual, can one do? Thoughts?

Without going to deep, I spent 4 months in Rwanda in 94. The difference that we made was fantastic for the duration, but it was only short lived. So on that premise any type of action in Sudan or anywhere else for that matter has to be sustainable for it to be truly effective. As for the solution I don't believe there is one unfortunately.

[Ågentßacardi]

billiam said:

”Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed It’s the only thing that ever has.” –Margaret Mead

(Disclaimer: Just my thoughts and opinions, I'm not forcing any of these sentiments down anybody's throats)

I think the condition in that quote is WHO the committed citizens are. Not everybody has the power to make the same impact. All men are, unfortunately, NOT created equally... as much as we want to believe otherwise. Some are born into rich and powerful families, some are born into poverty, some are born healthy, some are born diseased or handicapped. True, the destiny of the individual can be changed during the course of his/her lifetime, but we only have the cards that we're dealt to work with. We can only change so much, given what we've got. Some will get further, and others will fall flat on their faces. And it's not their fault for lack of trying... you just can't turn a frog into a prince.

And in this superficial world, money talks. I think that if you're a gazillionaire rallying together to effect a change, you would get much further than a group of, say, starving students. It's not so much as different levels of passion and heart between the two groups of people... the cold hard truth is that money and status are pretty much the only channels through which you can get your word out there. Or at least, they're the most effective channels. For instance, George W Bush weaseled his way into power by rigging the election. He probably couldn't have done it if he wasn't George H's son and belonged in a family with wealth, status, and power. Did this small group of citizens (the Bush family, along with their allies) change the world? Most definitely... Just not the direction in which we needed to go, unfortunately.

So yes, individuals can band together to rally a change, but the crucial factor is who these individuals are, how much money they have, their status, and what power and influence they have. I would love to say that everybody stands an equal chance of steering the world in the right direction, but I would also have to tell you that Elvis lives.

We have so many people in this world fighting sooooo hard to save it, which is a definite sign of hope. Now, we just need the right people in the right places to get things moving. It's like a roll of the dice. It'll take time, but we must all remain hopeful that it will happen soon.

[wildbill]

AB - I understand what you're trying to say but you cannot compare a petition with 500,000 signatures to a group of people at an intersection protesting. There is no comparison. A petition of 500,000 signatures is 500,000 people protesting not a small group of 100. It would be comparable to 5,000 of those groups on 5,000 different intersections in LA. So try to picture every single intersection in LA with one of those groups and that is a fair comparision.

This is what BANKSY'S street art is all about. Its a personal protest against injustice and thats why I f**king love the guy. He stands up and fights for what he believes in through his art. He protest right on the streets every time he puts up a stencil. the only difference between him and one the protesters in LA is that he is not standing there holding the sign and his sign's are much more enjoyable to look at and think about.


Protest and picketing may not be the most affective way to get things done but change has to start somewhere. A petition is for the people that want there to be a change but don't have time to visit those street corners. Someone like yourself for example. The "powers that be" want you to believe that there's nothing you can do but thats bulls**t.

I understand what you are saying AB, and I for one choose to take different approaches to fight for what I believe in, but we have to fight for our rights and the rights of those who cannot fight for their own. If we don't then we are all doomed.

[wildbill]

Now, we just need the right people in the right places to get things moving.

that is what a petition or even a street protest is all about. Its a group of people trying to reach more people(perhaps more influential people) to get the gears of changing moving.

It's like a roll of the dice.

Its only a roll of dice if we stand by and do nothing because we think that we cannot make a difference. WE ARE NOT HELPLESS. The government wants you to believe that you can't do shit because that makes you easier to control.

It'll take time, but we must all remain hopeful that it will happen soon.

and just sit around and hope that the world will becomes a better place? the only way that the world will become a better place is if we are proactive in our efforts to make it a better place.

[stuey09]

The only way that politicians will change direction or take note of popular opinion is through organised violence. French and Russian revolutions, US war of Liberty/Independance, abandoning of the Poll Tax in the UK. The list is endless. Petitions don't work, if they did the popular press would have secured Sarah's law years ago.

[guest2]

Not seen this film yet, that guy out of Snatch is in it ain't he?!

[catfelix69]

Love that film

[catfelix69]

Vinnie Jones

[guest2]

catfelix69 said:

Vinnie Jones

thats the one, great Voice!