nah
New Member
Posts โข 822
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April 2009
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Amazon Art , by nah on Aug 7, 2013 13:06:14 GMT 1, Am I the only one that can see the massive irony and hypocrisy of someone saying that this scene is 'anti capitalist' when prints that originally cost around ยฃ300 - ยฃ400 are changing hands on this site for anything up to around ยฃ15k??!! As has just been pointed out, eBay is also a huge corporate company so I don't see why Amazon are being singled out. Amazon is being singled out because an artist started this thread stating they were jumping on the Amazon corporate bandwagon. He also ended the first post with 'winge away'. Why I wonder? The thread Pure Evil started, this one, is called 'Amazon Art'. I don't think it is lame to call PE out on this at all. Is there much of a difference between this thread and a thread in the For Sale section with just a link to a members ebay auction? Yes it's a new and exciting venture by Amazon to get into the art industry but it's a business venture by a HUGE company that will take out small businesses if it does take off. Does PE have employees at his gallery? 'Your Heart Is A Weapon The Size Of Your Fist Keep Fighting Keep Loving' is a powerful message and one of PE's works that I really like so I was disappointed to see this thread and I felt I had to say something. My back went up when PE said he's going into this with his eyes open because I associate 'open your eyes' and 'eyes wide open' with actually seeing how the world is being run and not just opening your eyes for business. There is hypocrisy in all of us but you have to make a start in doing what you know is right. in its current form i don't see how it can do anything but help small galleries. why would it take them out?
Am I the only one that can see the massive irony and hypocrisy of someone saying that this scene is 'anti capitalist' when prints that originally cost around ยฃ300 - ยฃ400 are changing hands on this site for anything up to around ยฃ15k??!! As has just been pointed out, eBay is also a huge corporate company so I don't see why Amazon are being singled out. Amazon is being singled out because an artist started this thread stating they were jumping on the Amazon corporate bandwagon. He also ended the first post with 'winge away'. Why I wonder? The thread Pure Evil started, this one, is called 'Amazon Art'. I don't think it is lame to call PE out on this at all. Is there much of a difference between this thread and a thread in the For Sale section with just a link to a members ebay auction? Yes it's a new and exciting venture by Amazon to get into the art industry but it's a business venture by a HUGE company that will take out small businesses if it does take off. Does PE have employees at his gallery? 'Your Heart Is A Weapon The Size Of Your Fist Keep Fighting Keep Loving' is a powerful message and one of PE's works that I really like so I was disappointed to see this thread and I felt I had to say something. My back went up when PE said he's going into this with his eyes open because I associate 'open your eyes' and 'eyes wide open' with actually seeing how the world is being run and not just opening your eyes for business. There is hypocrisy in all of us but you have to make a start in doing what you know is right. in its current form i don't see how it can do anything but help small galleries. why would it take them out?
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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Amazon Art , by johnnyh on Aug 7, 2013 14:13:06 GMT 1, Yes but Amazon Art is Amazon Art. Sure it will survive regardless of PE.
You see the negatives but looking at it a slightly different way. PE not being there is more likely to effect his business. Number of staff could actually increase as his potential market has just grown. It will take out some businesses but it may well spurn many more. Eg are their less businesses now we have the Internet no there are not there are more. I think PE was saying he understands what he is getting into and the pros and negs of it. That he will try it and make some form of decision. Business and businesses are not all bad things and nor are all corporations. Most of the worlds problems are not created by corporate business just as the tax laws in each country are not and they are all different. That's not to say I believe all corporate business and their practices are good. But that is up to Govt to solve. It's not hypocrisy to sell prints through ebay/amazon/big galleries. He is an artist, he has a gallery......he sells art, he is active in his community (see recent show, Martin Whatson ). As mentioned your first comments were about tax they pay what they legally have to. Gov should change law. Employment rights in US and UK are pretty high up their in most things so not sure it's relevant
Wow this is just an online retailer. He is an artist and gallery. Amazon was a small unprofitable retailer not that long ago. It does not work without business and nor does anyone. Mate get real.....
Yes but Amazon Art is Amazon Art. Sure it will survive regardless of PE.
You see the negatives but looking at it a slightly different way. PE not being there is more likely to effect his business. Number of staff could actually increase as his potential market has just grown. It will take out some businesses but it may well spurn many more. Eg are their less businesses now we have the Internet no there are not there are more. I think PE was saying he understands what he is getting into and the pros and negs of it. That he will try it and make some form of decision. Business and businesses are not all bad things and nor are all corporations. Most of the worlds problems are not created by corporate business just as the tax laws in each country are not and they are all different. That's not to say I believe all corporate business and their practices are good. But that is up to Govt to solve. It's not hypocrisy to sell prints through ebay/amazon/big galleries. He is an artist, he has a gallery......he sells art, he is active in his community (see recent show, Martin Whatson ). As mentioned your first comments were about tax they pay what they legally have to. Gov should change law. Employment rights in US and UK are pretty high up their in most things so not sure it's relevant
Wow this is just an online retailer. He is an artist and gallery. Amazon was a small unprofitable retailer not that long ago. It does not work without business and nor does anyone. Mate get real.....
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 14:31:27 GMT 1, Amazon is being singled out because an artist started this thread stating they were jumping on the Amazon corporate bandwagon. He also ended the first post with 'winge away'. Why I wonder? The thread Pure Evil started, this one, is called 'Amazon Art'. I don't think it is lame to call PE out on this at all. Is there much of a difference between this thread and a thread in the For Sale section with just a link to a members ebay auction? Yes it's a new and exciting venture by Amazon to get into the art industry but it's a business venture by a HUGE company that will take out small businesses if it does take off. Does PE have employees at his gallery? 'Your Heart Is A Weapon The Size Of Your Fist Keep Fighting Keep Loving' is a powerful message and one of PE's works that I really like so I was disappointed to see this thread and I felt I had to say something. My back went up when PE said he's going into this with his eyes open because I associate 'open your eyes' and 'eyes wide open' with actually seeing how the world is being run and not just opening your eyes for business. There is hypocrisy in all of us but you have to make a start in doing what you know is right. in its current form i don't see how it can do anything but help small galleries. why would it take them out? You're quite right. I think that's a short term view though. I was thinking of physical galleries. Amazon is the worlds biggest on-line retailer. I'm sure PE has put in a lot of money, time and effort creating his gallery and the costs are growing all the time. Rent, overheads, staff. Get rid of those costs. Go on-line with the help of Amazon. My main problem with this whole thing though is the distribution of money. Generated by art in this case. It is an art forum. It's the stories that everybody knows (the rich get richer, the 99%, globalization, tax evasion ) and I'm just sorry to see it happening here on the forum in this way. OYE
Amazon is being singled out because an artist started this thread stating they were jumping on the Amazon corporate bandwagon. He also ended the first post with 'winge away'. Why I wonder? The thread Pure Evil started, this one, is called 'Amazon Art'. I don't think it is lame to call PE out on this at all. Is there much of a difference between this thread and a thread in the For Sale section with just a link to a members ebay auction? Yes it's a new and exciting venture by Amazon to get into the art industry but it's a business venture by a HUGE company that will take out small businesses if it does take off. Does PE have employees at his gallery? 'Your Heart Is A Weapon The Size Of Your Fist Keep Fighting Keep Loving' is a powerful message and one of PE's works that I really like so I was disappointed to see this thread and I felt I had to say something. My back went up when PE said he's going into this with his eyes open because I associate 'open your eyes' and 'eyes wide open' with actually seeing how the world is being run and not just opening your eyes for business. There is hypocrisy in all of us but you have to make a start in doing what you know is right. in its current form i don't see how it can do anything but help small galleries. why would it take them out? You're quite right. I think that's a short term view though. I was thinking of physical galleries. Amazon is the worlds biggest on-line retailer. I'm sure PE has put in a lot of money, time and effort creating his gallery and the costs are growing all the time. Rent, overheads, staff. Get rid of those costs. Go on-line with the help of Amazon. My main problem with this whole thing though is the distribution of money. Generated by art in this case. It is an art forum. It's the stories that everybody knows (the rich get richer, the 99%, globalization, tax evasion ) and I'm just sorry to see it happening here on the forum in this way. OYE
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sin
New Member
Posts โข 614
Likes โข 737
February 2013
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Amazon Art , by sin on Aug 7, 2013 15:06:09 GMT 1, I applaud the leap but begrudge its facilitation of the gallery model into a digital environment.
$1000 becomes $850 becomes $425 for the artist.
The internet should be used to truly democratize the process rather than provide expansion of the gallery model into an online sales mechanism.
Also, without proper quality control this could backfire horribly. My mantra (working on the internet for a living) is that the internet makes it possible for people to make mistakes at a greater scale and faster than in any time in history.
1. The search mechanism is clugey and not devised under how I would search for art. 2. Amazon's conduit position with no attention to quality control or frankly keeping the scammers out with such a delicate product is going to lead to serious problems (see sams club art fiasco)
There is a real opportunity here to get market disruptive and help the consumer and the producer get closer together but this (at first glance) isn't it and worse still simply amplifies the current problems.
I applaud the leap but begrudge its facilitation of the gallery model into a digital environment.
$1000 becomes $850 becomes $425 for the artist.
The internet should be used to truly democratize the process rather than provide expansion of the gallery model into an online sales mechanism.
Also, without proper quality control this could backfire horribly. My mantra (working on the internet for a living) is that the internet makes it possible for people to make mistakes at a greater scale and faster than in any time in history.
1. The search mechanism is clugey and not devised under how I would search for art. 2. Amazon's conduit position with no attention to quality control or frankly keeping the scammers out with such a delicate product is going to lead to serious problems (see sams club art fiasco)
There is a real opportunity here to get market disruptive and help the consumer and the producer get closer together but this (at first glance) isn't it and worse still simply amplifies the current problems.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 15:10:27 GMT 1, If Amazon had a night time site it could be called Amazonk, or if they did a spoof one it could be called Shamazon.
They selling art now then or summat?.
If Amazon had a night time site it could be called Amazonk, or if they did a spoof one it could be called Shamazon.
They selling art now then or summat?.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 15:11:15 GMT 1, Yes but Amazon Art is Amazon Art. Sure it will survive regardless of PE. You see the negatives but looking at it a slightly different way. PE not being there is more likely to effect his business. Number of staff could actually increase as his potential market has just grown. It will take out some businesses but it may well spurn many more. Eg are their less businesses now we have the Internet no there are not there are more. I think PE was saying he understands what he is getting into and the pros and negs of it. That he will try it and make some form of decision. Business and businesses are not all bad things and nor are all corporations. Most of the worlds problems are not created by corporate business just as the tax laws in each country are not and they are all different. That's not to say I believe all corporate business and their practices are good. But that is up to Govt to solve. It's not hypocrisy to sell prints through ebay/amazon/big galleries. He is an artist, he has a gallery......he sells art, he is active in his community (see recent show, Martin Whatson ). As mentioned your first comments were about tax they pay what they legally have to. Gov should change law. Employment rights in US and UK are pretty high up their in most things so not sure it's relevant Wow this is just an online retailer. He is an artist and gallery. Amazon was a small unprofitable retailer not that long ago. It does not work without business and nor does anyone. Mate get real..... PE hasn't really said anything on the subject other than he is on board. I really don't mean to have a go at PE personally, I like his art, it's just that he created this thread and it disappoints me that it was him. It is not up to the Governments to solve the issues.You know as well, if not better than I do, that big business controls the laws implemented by Governments at the moment. It is up to the citizens of the countries in these so called democracies to change the way things are done. US and UK rights are relevant because these two Governments are militarily and economically exporting ideologies that should be based on these rights not ideologies that are based on economic/business freedoms regardless of a populations rights. When you say 'get real' do you mean I should just accept the way things are? What is it you really do in China? (PM me if you'd rather not post it)
Yes but Amazon Art is Amazon Art. Sure it will survive regardless of PE. You see the negatives but looking at it a slightly different way. PE not being there is more likely to effect his business. Number of staff could actually increase as his potential market has just grown. It will take out some businesses but it may well spurn many more. Eg are their less businesses now we have the Internet no there are not there are more. I think PE was saying he understands what he is getting into and the pros and negs of it. That he will try it and make some form of decision. Business and businesses are not all bad things and nor are all corporations. Most of the worlds problems are not created by corporate business just as the tax laws in each country are not and they are all different. That's not to say I believe all corporate business and their practices are good. But that is up to Govt to solve. It's not hypocrisy to sell prints through ebay/amazon/big galleries. He is an artist, he has a gallery......he sells art, he is active in his community (see recent show, Martin Whatson ). As mentioned your first comments were about tax they pay what they legally have to. Gov should change law. Employment rights in US and UK are pretty high up their in most things so not sure it's relevant Wow this is just an online retailer. He is an artist and gallery. Amazon was a small unprofitable retailer not that long ago. It does not work without business and nor does anyone. Mate get real..... PE hasn't really said anything on the subject other than he is on board. I really don't mean to have a go at PE personally, I like his art, it's just that he created this thread and it disappoints me that it was him. It is not up to the Governments to solve the issues.You know as well, if not better than I do, that big business controls the laws implemented by Governments at the moment. It is up to the citizens of the countries in these so called democracies to change the way things are done. US and UK rights are relevant because these two Governments are militarily and economically exporting ideologies that should be based on these rights not ideologies that are based on economic/business freedoms regardless of a populations rights. When you say 'get real' do you mean I should just accept the way things are? What is it you really do in China? (PM me if you'd rather not post it)
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Damien
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,323
Likes โข 283
July 2008
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Amazon Art , by Damien on Aug 7, 2013 15:14:35 GMT 1, If Amazon had a night time site it could be called Amazonk, or if they did a spoof one it could be called Shamazon. They selling art now then or summat?. yes nige, they've got a monet on there for a few mill somewhere too, i cant find anything good on there
If Amazon had a night time site it could be called Amazonk, or if they did a spoof one it could be called Shamazon. They selling art now then or summat?. yes nige, they've got a monet on there for a few mill somewhere too, i cant find anything good on there
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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Amazon Art , by johnnyh on Aug 7, 2013 16:31:24 GMT 1, Happy not sure what I do is relevant but I just live here.
You spoke about them exploiting their workforce. I am not sure they do their work force is pretty well protected in the uk and US. Actually it is upto governments. It is them that provide these companies with tax breaks to host their businesses. The google issue that's why they are in Ireland it offers them tax breaks. You want to tax amazon in the uk govt can just introduce a transaction tax not hard. It can also tax it's sales revenue if that's what it wants to do.
When I say get real I think you should accept that you live in a first world economy with a very high standard of living in comparrison to much of the world. You should also get real because as has been mentioned the trading and collecting of art is not quite the antiestablishment folly your pretending it is.
Think you did mean to have a go at both amazon and PE As that's what you did. However this is the point your missing. Do I think these companies should pay more tax in the Uk yes I do but they are not going to unless they are forced to by changes in the law. Your Govt won't do that or it will its their choice. You asked about China well China does penalize with additional taxes foreign companies. It even has transactional taxes to stop the money just being moved around as the uk complains about. So It can be done and the companies pay it as they have to. So I have seen it work.
While we're on the subject what do you do?
Happy not sure what I do is relevant but I just live here.
You spoke about them exploiting their workforce. I am not sure they do their work force is pretty well protected in the uk and US. Actually it is upto governments. It is them that provide these companies with tax breaks to host their businesses. The google issue that's why they are in Ireland it offers them tax breaks. You want to tax amazon in the uk govt can just introduce a transaction tax not hard. It can also tax it's sales revenue if that's what it wants to do.
When I say get real I think you should accept that you live in a first world economy with a very high standard of living in comparrison to much of the world. You should also get real because as has been mentioned the trading and collecting of art is not quite the antiestablishment folly your pretending it is.
Think you did mean to have a go at both amazon and PE As that's what you did. However this is the point your missing. Do I think these companies should pay more tax in the Uk yes I do but they are not going to unless they are forced to by changes in the law. Your Govt won't do that or it will its their choice. You asked about China well China does penalize with additional taxes foreign companies. It even has transactional taxes to stop the money just being moved around as the uk complains about. So It can be done and the companies pay it as they have to. So I have seen it work.
While we're on the subject what do you do?
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rustledust
New Member
Posts โข 139
Likes โข 80
June 2010
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Amazon Art , by rustledust on Aug 7, 2013 16:39:16 GMT 1, I've no idea how I feel about this. I guess time will tell. In one sense, I much prefer the "intimacy" of a small, more bespoke gallery; whether that's online or physical. I feel it's tailored to me and I'm happy to buy several pieces. It's like buying my favourite music from local record shops, I still do that. I'd never buy a CD from a supermarket. The bands I like wouldn't dream of allowing themselves to be in supermarkets anyway....but that's not a fair comparison to my favourite artists (like PE). I see Amazon as like an online supermarket, but then my favourite bands are on Amazon..... I've totally confused myself.
What I don't understand is why PE/any other artist needs to do this. If a print is good enough, it will sell out; and a more independent outlet will see a larger return on those sales for the artist. Art isn't mass-sale orientated, it's totally limited. It's not like music, clothes or anything else.
Besides the whole "stick it to the man"/"support the little guy" debate, I won't be using Amazon for art purchases anyway. The search is clumsy, there's already too much on there, and I don't have the time to wade through all of the shite that gets returned when typing in one artist. I thought eBay was bad enough.
I've no idea how I feel about this. I guess time will tell. In one sense, I much prefer the "intimacy" of a small, more bespoke gallery; whether that's online or physical. I feel it's tailored to me and I'm happy to buy several pieces. It's like buying my favourite music from local record shops, I still do that. I'd never buy a CD from a supermarket. The bands I like wouldn't dream of allowing themselves to be in supermarkets anyway....but that's not a fair comparison to my favourite artists (like PE). I see Amazon as like an online supermarket, but then my favourite bands are on Amazon..... I've totally confused myself.
What I don't understand is why PE/any other artist needs to do this. If a print is good enough, it will sell out; and a more independent outlet will see a larger return on those sales for the artist. Art isn't mass-sale orientated, it's totally limited. It's not like music, clothes or anything else.
Besides the whole "stick it to the man"/"support the little guy" debate, I won't be using Amazon for art purchases anyway. The search is clumsy, there's already too much on there, and I don't have the time to wade through all of the shite that gets returned when typing in one artist. I thought eBay was bad enough.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 16:40:48 GMT 1, Happy not sure what I do is relevant but I just live here. You spoke about them exploiting their workforce. I am not sure they do their work force is pretty well protected in the uk and US. Actually it is upto governments. It is them that provide these companies with tax breaks to host their businesses. The google issue that's why they are in Ireland it offers them tax breaks. You want to tax amazon in the uk govt can just introduce a transaction tax not hard. It can also tax it's sales revenue if that's what it wants to do. When I say get real I think you should accept that you live in a first world economy with a very high standard of living in comparrison to much of the world. You should also get real because as has been mentioned the trading and collecting of art is not quite the antiestablishment folly your pretending it is. Think you did mean to have a go at both amazon and PE As that's what you did. However this is the point your missing. Do I think these companies should pay more tax in the Uk yes I do but they are not going to unless they are forced to by changes in the law. Your Govt won't do that or it will its their choice. You asked about China well China does penalize with additional taxes foreign companies. It even has transactional taxes to stop the money just being moved around as the uk complains about. So It can be done and the companies pay it as they have to. So I have seen it work. While we're on the subject what do you do? Part of your problem is the tone you adopt in your posts. It's patronising. You imply that you know best and your career has elevated you to a status that sees you as the font of all knowledge, and how business/governments work. Just step back from disappearing up your own arse with your own self importance and listen to what others are saying.
Happy not sure what I do is relevant but I just live here. You spoke about them exploiting their workforce. I am not sure they do their work force is pretty well protected in the uk and US. Actually it is upto governments. It is them that provide these companies with tax breaks to host their businesses. The google issue that's why they are in Ireland it offers them tax breaks. You want to tax amazon in the uk govt can just introduce a transaction tax not hard. It can also tax it's sales revenue if that's what it wants to do. When I say get real I think you should accept that you live in a first world economy with a very high standard of living in comparrison to much of the world. You should also get real because as has been mentioned the trading and collecting of art is not quite the antiestablishment folly your pretending it is. Think you did mean to have a go at both amazon and PE As that's what you did. However this is the point your missing. Do I think these companies should pay more tax in the Uk yes I do but they are not going to unless they are forced to by changes in the law. Your Govt won't do that or it will its their choice. You asked about China well China does penalize with additional taxes foreign companies. It even has transactional taxes to stop the money just being moved around as the uk complains about. So It can be done and the companies pay it as they have to. So I have seen it work. While we're on the subject what do you do? Part of your problem is the tone you adopt in your posts. It's patronising. You imply that you know best and your career has elevated you to a status that sees you as the font of all knowledge, and how business/governments work. Just step back from disappearing up your own arse with your own self importance and listen to what others are saying.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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Amazon Art , by johnnyh on Aug 7, 2013 16:48:18 GMT 1, Pulling your head out of your own might help. As many of your messages like the one above prove.
It's just a different view point. May be you should think a bit more before you post. Not sure I particularly have a tone it's probably more of a reasoned argument. Eg earlier it was that amazon did not pay taxes. Then moved to destruction of the art market.
Just not true mate. I have not mentioned my career in these posts and in fact only once in 1853 posts have I ever. So again without being to patronizing but in your case to hell with it. Engage your brain before your fingers or mouth
Pulling your head out of your own might help. As many of your messages like the one above prove.
It's just a different view point. May be you should think a bit more before you post. Not sure I particularly have a tone it's probably more of a reasoned argument. Eg earlier it was that amazon did not pay taxes. Then moved to destruction of the art market.
Just not true mate. I have not mentioned my career in these posts and in fact only once in 1853 posts have I ever. So again without being to patronizing but in your case to hell with it. Engage your brain before your fingers or mouth
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randomname
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,962
Likes โข 1,810
June 2013
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Amazon Art , by randomname on Aug 7, 2013 16:51:05 GMT 1, Looks like they have a ton of counterfeit art on their site. Personally, I would be hesitant to sell my art on a site with no ethical standards.
Looks like they have a ton of counterfeit art on their site. Personally, I would be hesitant to sell my art on a site with no ethical standards.
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plush
New Member
Posts โข 238
Likes โข 18
November 2011
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Amazon Art , by plush on Aug 7, 2013 17:07:21 GMT 1, Looks like they have a ton of counterfeit art on their site. Personally, I would be hesitant to sell my art on a site with no ethical standards.
Ton? Please do share. Are you saying, counterfeit, as it is intended to be passed as real? Or just prints or copies of an original?
Looks like they have a ton of counterfeit art on their site. Personally, I would be hesitant to sell my art on a site with no ethical standards. Ton? Please do share. Are you saying, counterfeit, as it is intended to be passed as real? Or just prints or copies of an original?
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randomname
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,962
Likes โข 1,810
June 2013
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Amazon Art , by randomname on Aug 7, 2013 17:36:51 GMT 1, Looks like they have a ton of counterfeit art on their site. Personally, I would be hesitant to sell my art on a site with no ethical standards. Ton? Please do share. Are you saying, counterfeit, as it is intended to be passed as real? Or just prints or copies of an original?
By counterfeit, I mean reproductions of copyrighted artwork that the seller is not licensed to print or sell.
This seller has 200 pages of work stolen from artists and photographers.
Obviously they are not licensed to sell Faile prints. Take a look at some of the other work they have for sale and you'll find that they are using stock photography which is not licensed to be sold commercially.
They're buying the high-res image under a personal use license, then turning around and mass producing it, cheating the artist out of his or her royalties.
For example, this poster was taken from this stock image. Here's the licensing agreement, which clearly states it can't be resold commercially.
Looks like they have a ton of counterfeit art on their site. Personally, I would be hesitant to sell my art on a site with no ethical standards. Ton? Please do share. Are you saying, counterfeit, as it is intended to be passed as real? Or just prints or copies of an original? By counterfeit, I mean reproductions of copyrighted artwork that the seller is not licensed to print or sell. This seller has 200 pages of work stolen from artists and photographers. Obviously they are not licensed to sell Faile prints. Take a look at some of the other work they have for sale and you'll find that they are using stock photography which is not licensed to be sold commercially. They're buying the high-res image under a personal use license, then turning around and mass producing it, cheating the artist out of his or her royalties. For example, this poster was taken from this stock image. Here's the licensing agreement, which clearly states it can't be resold commercially.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 7, 2013 17:39:21 GMT 1, Your eyes may well be open but what are you looking for? Sleepwalkers have open eyes. What happened to the heart/fist/fighting PE? Sean I would also say that with all due respect the above by Happy meal is the most patronizing post I didn't mean the questions to be patronizing and I tried to explain that I was upset by the 'open eyes' comment. I would still be very interested in the answers. Gotta say I haven't felt patronized by any of your posts jonhnnyh and I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. I'm not great at making my points clear because of my emotions on these issues. I try to do my best and to think of others.That's what I do.
Your eyes may well be open but what are you looking for? Sleepwalkers have open eyes. What happened to the heart/fist/fighting PE? Sean I would also say that with all due respect the above by Happy meal is the most patronizing post I didn't mean the questions to be patronizing and I tried to explain that I was upset by the 'open eyes' comment. I would still be very interested in the answers. Gotta say I haven't felt patronized by any of your posts jonhnnyh and I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. I'm not great at making my points clear because of my emotions on these issues. I try to do my best and to think of others.That's what I do.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
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March 2011
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Amazon Art , by johnnyh on Aug 7, 2013 17:50:27 GMT 1, Cheers chap and likewise
Cheers chap and likewise
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Amazon Art , by Agent Provocateur on Aug 8, 2013 8:03:42 GMT 1, Interesting discussion... I found another website that's similar to Amazon's model (albeit as it's singular function) giving artists and galleries a platform to show and sell their work to a larger audience. They provide the platform and 'reach', the artists and galleries use it a bit like the bay, having their own shop where they can upload and manage the work they have on the system.
It's large and piles the artists high, with tonnes of styles and a range of quality, but think they're passionate about art and very organised.
Not sure why I'm posting this, but probably because of the discussion about large interweb based companies shifting the location of art for the masses from bricks and mortar galleries to a virtual space. Long-term will it have an effect, putting smaller galleries out of business, dumming down the quality with sheer numbers? Haven't got a clue... but I think the wibbly wobbly world is not going away, and in time, with new technology will only integrate itself into our everyday lives even more.
Personally I don't think it's about fighting the technology, or how new formats uses that system, it's more about choosing your battles. And for any artist/gallery to set their ideological/moral standpoint and stick to it, if you're comfortable with a gallery, organisation or website that can aid your career then that's cool. But as this thread points out there are strong opinions that cause heated debate, often coming less from the art and more from the political and sociological angle associated with how that company operates.
Don't think that answers any of the points made on this thread already, has probably just allowed me to ramble on again!
The websites artfinder.com, have a look and see what y'all think, as I said it's got 1,000's of artists and galleries with a massive range of styles so probably not to the tastes of many on here.
And yes I am on there, but this isn't meant to be a self-promotion, just my opinions on a small part of this discussion.
MY big question is... would I use Amazon to promote my work if I knew I'd reach 1,000's more prospective buyers, potentially sell a load more paintings and possibly make a lot of money... I don't know.
[any inaccuracies, b**ls**t, spelling mistakes or waffle in this post is due to me typing this far too early in the morning and not having had a coffee!]
Interesting discussion... I found another website that's similar to Amazon's model (albeit as it's singular function) giving artists and galleries a platform to show and sell their work to a larger audience. They provide the platform and 'reach', the artists and galleries use it a bit like the bay, having their own shop where they can upload and manage the work they have on the system. It's large and piles the artists high, with tonnes of styles and a range of quality, but think they're passionate about art and very organised. Not sure why I'm posting this, but probably because of the discussion about large interweb based companies shifting the location of art for the masses from bricks and mortar galleries to a virtual space. Long-term will it have an effect, putting smaller galleries out of business, dumming down the quality with sheer numbers? Haven't got a clue... but I think the wibbly wobbly world is not going away, and in time, with new technology will only integrate itself into our everyday lives even more. Personally I don't think it's about fighting the technology, or how new formats uses that system, it's more about choosing your battles. And for any artist/gallery to set their ideological/moral standpoint and stick to it, if you're comfortable with a gallery, organisation or website that can aid your career then that's cool. But as this thread points out there are strong opinions that cause heated debate, often coming less from the art and more from the political and sociological angle associated with how that company operates. Don't think that answers any of the points made on this thread already, has probably just allowed me to ramble on again! The websites artfinder.com, have a look and see what y'all think, as I said it's got 1,000's of artists and galleries with a massive range of styles so probably not to the tastes of many on here. And yes I am on there, but this isn't meant to be a self-promotion, just my opinions on a small part of this discussion. MY big question is... would I use Amazon to promote my work if I knew I'd reach 1,000's more prospective buyers, potentially sell a load more paintings and possibly make a lot of money... I don't know. [ any inaccuracies, b**ls**t, spelling mistakes or waffle in this post is due to me typing this far too early in the morning and not having had a coffee!]
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Sacked...
Full Member
Posts โข 7,978
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October 2007
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Amazon Art , by Sacked... on Aug 14, 2013 21:29:22 GMT 1, Here's an article reguarding amazon Art :
When retail Goliath Amazon unveiled its virtual fine art store last week, the site drew a mixture of curious art aficionados and bemused onlookers who flocked there to see what was on offer. Among the most expensive pieces were works by household names like Norman Rockwell, whose painting, โWillie Gillis: Package from Home,โ (1941), was $4.85 million, and Claude Monet, whose portrait of his son Jean was $1.45 million. Not too far down the list of priciest items, however, were a handful of sensuous portraits of women by a lesser-known Pennsylvania-based realist painter Nelson Shanks, ranging from a staggering $500,000 to upwards of $900,000. This seeming anomaly may be indicative of the types of challenges new or inexperienced buyers will face in endeavoring to make major art acquisitions from this expansive new superstore.
www.blouinartinfo.com/news/story/944793/what-the-curious-case-of-nelson-shanks-tells-us-about-online
Here's an article reguarding amazon Art : When retail Goliath Amazon unveiled its virtual fine art store last week, the site drew a mixture of curious art aficionados and bemused onlookers who flocked there to see what was on offer. Among the most expensive pieces were works by household names like Norman Rockwell, whose painting, โWillie Gillis: Package from Home,โ (1941), was $4.85 million, and Claude Monet, whose portrait of his son Jean was $1.45 million. Not too far down the list of priciest items, however, were a handful of sensuous portraits of women by a lesser-known Pennsylvania-based realist painter Nelson Shanks, ranging from a staggering $500,000 to upwards of $900,000. This seeming anomaly may be indicative of the types of challenges new or inexperienced buyers will face in endeavoring to make major art acquisitions from this expansive new superstore. www.blouinartinfo.com/news/story/944793/what-the-curious-case-of-nelson-shanks-tells-us-about-online
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Johnnyroyale
New Member
Posts โข 504
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October 2008
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Amazon Art , by Johnnyroyale on Aug 14, 2013 21:36:20 GMT 1, Free postage! Cant argue with that
Free postage! Cant argue with that
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 21:50:40 GMT 1, Free postage! Cant argue with that
Yep. Good luck to PE I say, the free postage will attract more people to buy his work. Anyone complaining about him using Amazon should do well to remember that this is how he makes his living and so he'd be mad to not look into every avenue to help sell his work.
Free postage! Cant argue with that Yep. Good luck to PE I say, the free postage will attract more people to buy his work. Anyone complaining about him using Amazon should do well to remember that this is how he makes his living and so he'd be mad to not look into every avenue to help sell his work.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 22:44:28 GMT 1, Free postage! Cant argue with that Yep. Good luck to PE I say, the free postage will attract more people to buy his work. Anyone complaining about him using Amazon should do well to remember that this is how he makes his living and so he'd be mad to not look into every avenue to help sell his work. I'm complaining about PE using Amazon and I don't have to remember that this is how he makes a living. He started this thread. There are some avenues that shouldn't really be used as there are no street lights on these avenues. You can't see what's going on.
Free postage though. Can't argue with that.
Free postage! Cant argue with that Yep. Good luck to PE I say, the free postage will attract more people to buy his work. Anyone complaining about him using Amazon should do well to remember that this is how he makes his living and so he'd be mad to not look into every avenue to help sell his work. I'm complaining about PE using Amazon and I don't have to remember that this is how he makes a living. He started this thread. There are some avenues that shouldn't really be used as there are no street lights on these avenues. You can't see what's going on. Free postage though. Can't argue with that.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 23:09:12 GMT 1, Always remember the uaa formula first discovered by dr badrobot in 2013
'For every insightful comment there will be an equal an opposite comment from an old member who's pretending to be new'
Always remember the uaa formula first discovered by dr badrobot in 2013
'For every insightful comment there will be an equal an opposite comment from an old member who's pretending to be new'
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 14, 2013 23:48:57 GMT 1, Yep. Good luck to PE I say, the free postage will attract more people to buy his work. Anyone complaining about him using Amazon should do well to remember that this is how he makes his living and so he'd be mad to not look into every avenue to help sell his work. I'm complaining about PE using Amazon and I don't have to remember that this is how he makes a living. He started this thread. There are some avenues that shouldn't really be used as there are no street lights on these avenues. You can't see what's going on. Free postage though. Can't argue with that.
Well I guess that's easy to say when it's not your career you're talking about.
Yes it would be great if we all lived in his utopian society where art and big business didn't have to meet but this is the real world and art is business.
If this gets him more customers then good luck. I'm quite sure PE could look into half of the companies you use, buy from, or in some even minor way support (as we ALL do) and find that they're avoiding paying taxes too. I'm sure that most of the food you buy will come from huge companies who do their level best to get around the tax system, the clothes you wear might originate from third world countries where the wages are scandalous and the workers are treated poorly. Have you ever looked into these things?
To pick on one man who is trying to sell his work seems a bit unfair seeing as we all end up supporting these tax dodging companies ourselves.
Yep. Good luck to PE I say, the free postage will attract more people to buy his work. Anyone complaining about him using Amazon should do well to remember that this is how he makes his living and so he'd be mad to not look into every avenue to help sell his work. I'm complaining about PE using Amazon and I don't have to remember that this is how he makes a living. He started this thread. There are some avenues that shouldn't really be used as there are no street lights on these avenues. You can't see what's going on. Free postage though. Can't argue with that. Well I guess that's easy to say when it's not your career you're talking about. Yes it would be great if we all lived in his utopian society where art and big business didn't have to meet but this is the real world and art is business. If this gets him more customers then good luck. I'm quite sure PE could look into half of the companies you use, buy from, or in some even minor way support (as we ALL do) and find that they're avoiding paying taxes too. I'm sure that most of the food you buy will come from huge companies who do their level best to get around the tax system, the clothes you wear might originate from third world countries where the wages are scandalous and the workers are treated poorly. Have you ever looked into these things? To pick on one man who is trying to sell his work seems a bit unfair seeing as we all end up supporting these tax dodging companies ourselves.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 1:53:09 GMT 1, I'm complaining about PE using Amazon and I don't have to remember that this is how he makes a living. He started this thread. There are some avenues that shouldn't really be used as there are no street lights on these avenues. You can't see what's going on. Free postage though. Can't argue with that. Well I guess that's easy to say when it's not your career you're talking about. Yes it would be great if we all lived in his utopian society where art and big business didn't have to meet but this is the real world and art is business. If this gets him more customers then good luck. I'm quite sure PE could look into half of the companies you use, buy from, or in some even minor way support (as we ALL do) and find that they're avoiding paying taxes too. I'm sure that most of the food you buy will come from huge companies who do their level best to get around the tax system, the clothes you wear might originate from third world countries where the wages are scandalous and the workers are treated poorly. Have you ever looked into these things? To pick on one man who is trying to sell his work seems a bit unfair seeing as we all end up supporting these tax dodging companies ourselves. I know it's wrong but I could make more money. I know it's wrong but it's easier. I know it's wrong but damn, I look good in these threads.
When you have kids are you gonna sit them down as soon as they can understand and teach them the things above or are you just gonna teach them by ignoring them? Things that you know are wrong. Have I ever looked into these things? What do you think?
I'm complaining about PE using Amazon and I don't have to remember that this is how he makes a living. He started this thread. There are some avenues that shouldn't really be used as there are no street lights on these avenues. You can't see what's going on. Free postage though. Can't argue with that. Well I guess that's easy to say when it's not your career you're talking about. Yes it would be great if we all lived in his utopian society where art and big business didn't have to meet but this is the real world and art is business. If this gets him more customers then good luck. I'm quite sure PE could look into half of the companies you use, buy from, or in some even minor way support (as we ALL do) and find that they're avoiding paying taxes too. I'm sure that most of the food you buy will come from huge companies who do their level best to get around the tax system, the clothes you wear might originate from third world countries where the wages are scandalous and the workers are treated poorly. Have you ever looked into these things? To pick on one man who is trying to sell his work seems a bit unfair seeing as we all end up supporting these tax dodging companies ourselves. I know it's wrong but I could make more money. I know it's wrong but it's easier. I know it's wrong but damn, I look good in these threads. When you have kids are you gonna sit them down as soon as they can understand and teach them the things above or are you just gonna teach them by ignoring them? Things that you know are wrong. Have I ever looked into these things? What do you think?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 4:24:38 GMT 1, Well I guess that's easy to say when it's not your career you're talking about. Yes it would be great if we all lived in his utopian society where art and big business didn't have to meet but this is the real world and art is business. If this gets him more customers then good luck. I'm quite sure PE could look into half of the companies you use, buy from, or in some even minor way support (as we ALL do) and find that they're avoiding paying taxes too. I'm sure that most of the food you buy will come from huge companies who do their level best to get around the tax system, the clothes you wear might originate from third world countries where the wages are scandalous and the workers are treated poorly. Have you ever looked into these things? To pick on one man who is trying to sell his work seems a bit unfair seeing as we all end up supporting these tax dodging companies ourselves. I know it's wrong but I could make more money. I know it's wrong but it's easier. I know it's wrong but damn, I look good in these threads. When you have kids are you gonna sit them down as soon as they can understand and teach them the things above or are you just gonna teach them by ignoring them? Things that you know are wrong. Have I ever looked into these things? What do you think?
Looking into these things and taking a stand against them are two different things. I didn't ask if you'd looked into these things, I asked if you ever used, bought or in some way supported companies who avoided paying taxes. You answered my questions with more queations!
Ever used eBay? Look into their tax avoidance (someone has already mentioned this to you). I'm not sure why you're singling out Amazon when so many different companies are doing it - companies we all use. A bit of research sometimes helps to get a balanced view on things.
Well I guess that's easy to say when it's not your career you're talking about. Yes it would be great if we all lived in his utopian society where art and big business didn't have to meet but this is the real world and art is business. If this gets him more customers then good luck. I'm quite sure PE could look into half of the companies you use, buy from, or in some even minor way support (as we ALL do) and find that they're avoiding paying taxes too. I'm sure that most of the food you buy will come from huge companies who do their level best to get around the tax system, the clothes you wear might originate from third world countries where the wages are scandalous and the workers are treated poorly. Have you ever looked into these things? To pick on one man who is trying to sell his work seems a bit unfair seeing as we all end up supporting these tax dodging companies ourselves. I know it's wrong but I could make more money. I know it's wrong but it's easier. I know it's wrong but damn, I look good in these threads. When you have kids are you gonna sit them down as soon as they can understand and teach them the things above or are you just gonna teach them by ignoring them? Things that you know are wrong. Have I ever looked into these things? What do you think? Looking into these things and taking a stand against them are two different things. I didn't ask if you'd looked into these things, I asked if you ever used, bought or in some way supported companies who avoided paying taxes. You answered my questions with more queations! Ever used eBay? Look into their tax avoidance (someone has already mentioned this to you). I'm not sure why you're singling out Amazon when so many different companies are doing it - companies we all use. A bit of research sometimes helps to get a balanced view on things.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 4:59:21 GMT 1, As I'm sure you know xmy life is full of moral and ethical quandaries, full of grey areas and full of choices we each have to make with the intellectual tools at our disposal. Therefore whilst you are fully allowed to voice support for an area, others are equally able to describe why they oppose that belief.
As I'm sure you know xmy life is full of moral and ethical quandaries, full of grey areas and full of choices we each have to make with the intellectual tools at our disposal. Therefore whilst you are fully allowed to voice support for an area, others are equally able to describe why they oppose that belief.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 8:20:01 GMT 1, As I'm sure you know xmy life is full of moral and ethical quandaries, full of grey areas and full of choices we each have to make with the intellectual tools at our disposal. Therefore whilst you are fully allowed to voice support for an area, others are equally able to describe why they oppose that belief.
Yes DD I know this fact.
That's why there is nowhere in my post where I am saying he is not allowed to have this opinion. This is not an argument it is just a debate, we sit on two sides of the fence on this issue which is fine. I have my view and he has his.
I respect and like Happy Shopper as he comes up with some good posts on the forum and we've always got on well so of course he's entitled to his opinions.
Don't think that just because you upset so many people posting under Deputy Dawg that everyone is always trying to provoke an argument when they post.
PS - who is xmy?
As I'm sure you know xmy life is full of moral and ethical quandaries, full of grey areas and full of choices we each have to make with the intellectual tools at our disposal. Therefore whilst you are fully allowed to voice support for an area, others are equally able to describe why they oppose that belief. Yes DD I know this fact. That's why there is nowhere in my post where I am saying he is not allowed to have this opinion. This is not an argument it is just a debate, we sit on two sides of the fence on this issue which is fine. I have my view and he has his. I respect and like Happy Shopper as he comes up with some good posts on the forum and we've always got on well so of course he's entitled to his opinions. Don't think that just because you upset so many people posting under Deputy Dawg that everyone is always trying to provoke an argument when they post. PS - who is xmy?
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Amazon Art , by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Aug 15, 2013 8:41:25 GMT 1, Free postage!!! Hopefully Elms will start selling neates new work on there
PE keep up the good work and hope you get some sales on there and make some $$
Free postage!!! Hopefully Elms will start selling neates new work on there PE keep up the good work and hope you get some sales on there and make some $$
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 9:09:04 GMT 1, As I'm sure you know xmy life is full of moral and ethical quandaries, full of grey areas and full of choices we each have to make with the intellectual tools at our disposal. Therefore whilst you are fully allowed to voice support for an area, others are equally able to describe why they oppose that belief. Don't think that just because you upset so many people me posting under Deputy Dawg that everyone is always trying to provoke an argument when they post fixed
As I'm sure you know xmy life is full of moral and ethical quandaries, full of grey areas and full of choices we each have to make with the intellectual tools at our disposal. Therefore whilst you are fully allowed to voice support for an area, others are equally able to describe why they oppose that belief. Don't think that just because you upset so many people me posting under Deputy Dawg that everyone is always trying to provoke an argument when they post fixed
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Amazon Art , by Deleted on Aug 15, 2013 9:23:42 GMT 1, Don't think that just because you upset so many people and sent me that abusive PM posting under Deputy Dawg that everyone is always trying to provoke an argument when they post fixed Oops think you made a mistake there DD.
OK now it's fixed.
so anyway...... let's just leave DD and his trolling to one side for now!! I wish Pure Evil all the best with this. Artists do have to look for new avenues to sell their work and make a living. Amazon is a company that almost everyone knows so hopefully by using them he will be able to reach out and be seen by people who otherwise would not have seen his work.
To anyone who doesn't agree with Amazon then it's simple - don't buy from them! This is your right and nobody is forcing you to buy from anyone although obviously you should then never buy or sell on Ebay again either.
Don't think that just because you upset so many people and sent me that abusive PM posting under Deputy Dawg that everyone is always trying to provoke an argument when they post fixed Oops think you made a mistake there DD. OK now it's fixed. so anyway...... let's just leave DD and his trolling to one side for now!! I wish Pure Evil all the best with this. Artists do have to look for new avenues to sell their work and make a living. Amazon is a company that almost everyone knows so hopefully by using them he will be able to reach out and be seen by people who otherwise would not have seen his work. To anyone who doesn't agree with Amazon then it's simple - don't buy from them! This is your right and nobody is forcing you to buy from anyone although obviously you should then never buy or sell on Ebay again either.
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