[frank11]

once again someone offers an honest opinion, and people start negging.
Bastards please can someone tell me why?
I was only stating the facts that have been discussed. Nothing bad said!!!, i think there are far to many bad vibes at the moment, and if people have not got anything nice to say do not just neg people without stating why

[adrscib]

i ll give u one back... thanks for all guys who negged me too.

[frank11]

adrscib said:

i ll give u one back... thanks for all guys who negged me too.

Straight back at you. Does annoy me that people who regularly post seem to get knocked by Lurkers with no real opinion. just negative vibes.

Peace to one and all!!!!!

[tomhills1]

adrian, you f*ck right off 'mate'. you are so full of sh*t that i find it totally incomprehensible. i have made the effort to appreciate my art, it has been on my wall from the day i bought it, it has never been offered for sale before, it is not going on ebay, it is hopefully going to another lover of the print, it is being replaced by two prints - both of which will be on my walls too, it is not being replaced by dan baldwin crap and then get talked up by an in-bred half-wit, it is being sold by someone who has made a genuine effort to not only contribute to this board but to actively help out other forum members behind the scenes with help and advice in any way i can, you of all people should know that.

i've had that help thrown back in my face well and truly now, how dare you try and paint me out to be anything like you. i am nothing like you, if actually had a point you could have made it, instead you harp on like some hard done by victim and try and compare me to you like we are in some way similar.

i wish i didn't have to sink to this, i'd like to think i am better than this. the last time someone bad-mouthed me instead of addressing me via PM the thread was removed, i can't see that happening on this so i have no choice but to respond.
anyone who actually knows me will see the irony and the farcical nature of what adrian has written but there may also be some who naively think he may in some way have a point. he doesn't.

CBL is right, i would get a much better price in a month or so, if i don't get a good offer i may well hold on to it but that is my business and my business only.

stuey and paulah especially thanks for you're valid points and look adrian, i didn't even mention what you asked us all to move on from, that, to me now, is the least of your crimes.

[jonpud]

tomhills1 said:

adrian, you f*ck right off 'mate'. you are so full of sh*t that i find it totally incomprehensible. i have made the effort to appreciate my art, it has been on my wall from the day i bought it, it has never been offered for sale before, it is not going on ebay, it is hopefully going to another lover of the print, it is being replaced by two prints - both of which will be on my walls too, it is not being replaced by dan baldwin crap and then get talked up by an in-bred half-wit, it is being sold by someone who has made a genuine effort to not only contribute to this board but to actively help out other forum members behind the scenes with help and advice in any way i can, you of all people should know that.

i've had that help thrown back in my face well and truly now, how dare you try and paint me out to be anything like you. i am nothing like you, if actually had a point you could have made it, instead you harp on like some hard done by victim and try and compare me to you like we are in some way similar.

i wish i didn't have to sink to this, i'd like to think i am better than this. the last time someone bad-mouthed me instead of addressing me via PM the thread was removed, i can't see that happening on this so i have no choice but to respond.
anyone who actually knows me will see the irony and the farcical nature of what adrian has written but there may also be some who naively think he may in some way have a point. he doesn't.

CBL is right, i would get a much better price in a month or so, if i don't get a good offer i may well hold on to it but that is my business and my business only.

stuey and paulah especially thanks for you're valid points and look adrian, i didn't even mention what you asked us all to move on from, that, to me now, is the least of your crimes.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but is this the adscrib who bid on his own Reaper? I don't really know why you are a member unless you get a perverse pleasure out of pissing everyone off, oh well guess you need something to do to fill your lonely evenings!

Just out of interest, I put up a post wanting a GR about 5 weeks ago none for sale, now i've done my nuts on another couple of prints there's loads of them!! Gutted, would have had yours off you in a flash Lesbian but sadly cash aint available, and I would have guarenteed it an appreciative home!

[adrscib]

1) if you send me to fuck off pls dont call me a "mate"
2) If i am so full of shit why did you reply to me? you like to talking to shitty ppl?
3) tell us what are the prints u're replacing them with.
4) i have never questioned your honest and geniune help to other members as i was also one who benefited from your advice..
5) why did you take it so personal? dont you realise that the thread was only once directed at you and we eventually took discussion to banksy prices...
6) so u're not selling at cost? that is the only ironic post i have done at you... what is your problem with that... u're (most of the board memebrs) are putting farcical and ironical posts against me all the time and that doesnt seem to bother, i laugh them out as we should all....
7) dont you realise that its thanks to my eventual discussion that a debate triggered CBL to give you advise not to sell just now? to which you have listened?

It is dissappointing the way you have replied... not expected from a "founding" member of this board, it is without offence to him... a verbalkint post... and ppl will view your post in bad taste... forget the negs... i dont really care and i m not giving you one as i'm not childish... but i expect you to reword it... or remove it...

P.S. re: that "in bred half twit" referring to baldwin... i like that comment, I'm happily enjoying that canvas on MY HOUSE WALL, so yes, i also know how to enjoy the arts.

[manchestermike]

adrscib said:

I am a banksy fan too. If its not done for profit, then he should sell @ 2.2k+ framing expenses ... and give it to a good home who is sure that wont resell... I dont think that would be the case....

yes, there are quite a number of grin reapers on the market at the moment... one on the bay, one was being offered by "neaksmeate", one by LBW, one by Campbarbara, now one by opus...

i can understand the sales by dealers as that is their bread and butter... but whats the point of the sales by forum members... first preaching that its his best print ever and then over 5 are being sold simultaneously...

there is a 35% drop on most prints from the highest points so far.... and his warhol exhibition has been a flop (maybe expectations were too high or because it wasnt organised by LAZ).... i am not trying to paint a doomsday scenario.... but we have to admit we're in a correction....

what I believe is the first marketing mistake by Laz... they were making ppl hungry for banksy by not releasing any prints and all of a sudden these fans have set their eyes on artists like micalefs and neates... and have forgotten who is the real leader... consequently bringing the price down as fans get impatient.

without any offence, in my opinion if these "founding members" sell banksies to buy other non banksys such as micallefs, neates ... they are speculators.... as a banksy is not saleable by a "real" collector.

Finally I am glad that prices go down as this might make prints affordable again. so the panic sellers will offload at a loss, or smaller profit and some of us might be tempted to buy one or two prints again.

I am open to criticism that is debatable please ...

Adrian

What absolute bollocks!

I'll address your points one at a time:

When I bought my Banksys it was not for profit, it was because I liked the images and wanted them on my wall. I had no idea Banksy would be the phenomenon he is today. I made a good buy with the Reaper, it cost me £400 and I sold for much more than that. Why should, or would anyone sell at below market value to "to a good home who is sure that wont resell"? It makes no sense. I sold at what I and the buyer perceived as present value. You will note at no point did I try and sell for thousands above market value as someone else did.

What's the point of sales by forum members? What's the point of that question? It's to raise money. I've spent an unbelievable amount on art recently and needed (and still need) to recoup this. Yes it is Banksy's best print in my opinion (quality wise but not for actual print), but my tastes have changed in the two years since I bought it. I want other things on my wall, things I prefer. What should I do with it if not sell it?

Why is Banksy the "real leader"? I really do have to question your reasoning some (well a lot) of the time. Banksy is a one off granted, but classing someone as a "real leader" works in the same way as valuing prints by edition size or surface area... what is a "real leader"? Care to expand?

Your point about selling Banksy prints to fund non Banksy prints is the most laughable of them all. I came to this board as a lover of art (collector if you must) of a certain genre, my tastes have developed and changed and while I still think Banksy is brilliant I, as previously said, prefer to have art that reflects my current taste on the walls. People like Neate and Micallef, who I consider two of the most talented artists in the world today...

I really do read your posts and wonder what goes on in your head, how your brain works, the thoughts behind the logic and reasoning as I've got no idea how you get to your conclusions mate I really don't.

[adrscib]

The only reason to offer it at a higher cost was for marketing purposes.... "to be in the limelight", of which i managed as i really talked on hard and eventually manage to find a buyer.... and when i sell some baldwin "crap" prints i will do just the same...

its just what the big galleries do, so i'm not doing something out of the ordinary.... when i bought my reaper i found it at another gallery... my same one for twice the price! so that he is able to give me a discount....

.............

Banksy is the father of this "new street art movement?"... so he is THE LEADER... I am sure micallef and neate are closing the gap, but they can never overtake him! there is only one such banksy in every generation... not even baldwin or other crap artists we all mention now and then...

............

Mike, my whole point is that when i tried to offload my reaper everyone ridiculed me... for doing the exact same thing that you are doing now... I just had a hindsight and sold at the then peak prices.... i was wiser at the time? or maybe just lucky? yes, luck plays a part too...

and yes, i have bought over 15k mostly in baldwin crap i think... so i am still in the red in art.... we all have to make choices....

We're all in the same boat....

have you forgotten when i bought the soup can off you how you ridiculed me that i overpayed on the other wc board? what did i tell you? nothing, just to stop it...

so why all this emotion and commotion?

[manchestermike]

I'm glad you got your price for the Reaper mate, seriously. But I could never offer at so much above market value with a straight face. I try and sell anything I am doing for a fair price.

I've never called Dan Baldwin crap, I'm quite a fan of his, but not as much as I am a fan of others, therefore I sold some of Dan's work to finance other work, keeping my two favourite prints which are framed.

Banksy is NOT the father of this "movement", street art and stencil street art has been around long before Banksy. Micallef and Neate are only part of said "movement" (wrong word I feel) by association... they are completely different and unlike Banksy I feel they will appeal to traditional (fine) art lovers / collectors. I feel they will be "bigger" (again wrong word) than Banksy due to this and if you're talking prices I think they (well mainly Neate) will command much higher prices for their works.

You did not do the same as me when you sold your Reaper, you touted it a way over the mark prices. I sold at a fair price in order to fund art purchases. My time of selling was nothing to do with prices, peak prices or otherwise.

Finally, I did NOT ridicule you for buying the Elliot Soup Can from me, I said I was happy with the price I was offered as I thought it well over the odds so I bit the buyers hand off... I never mentioned who bought it once, but you came charging in having a go at me for it. Yes I bit your hand off, I got a fantastic deal on something I bought as a bit of a cheap laugh and still see as such

[stuey09]

Adrian, to call Banksy the 'father' of street art is wrong and suggests a lack of research or knowledge. I think you'll find that if anyone in the modern era is going to get that accolade it would be Blek le Rat.

Come on fella, keep up.

[maccamcd]

i just had a baby and need to buy a house. my sale ends in a couple of hours, whether the prices are cheap or not, who cares....i've offered a cheap signed morons as a gesture within the 'sale'....

[adrscib]

stuey in that case one of the founders was also JMB jean michell.. or has blak le ret been long before?

as regards to you mike... we both have our ways of marketing... you are happy with x, i am happy with y... i dont want to keep this debate going on... and excuse me for mentioning that soupcan again... but you got too aggresive with me...

and other ppl reminded me once again that i bid on my own reaper... was this chapter closed? why do some folks have to reopen the story... is this a "sin" i have to carry for life? i dont go hiding under different pseudonyms, my email is public, you all can know who i am, a man of integrity... i have spent thousands of my money on art most of which went to forum members in exchange of their prints!

By bashing me and negging me its not really a problem.... the truth hurts / and reality bites ... otherwise i wouldnt have received such comments.

I'll talk to you next week when you calm down.

Keep cool guys. Stop efffffing me too.
Adrian / [e-mail]

[manchestermike]

HOW???

How did I get too aggressive? Please explain mate, I'm seriously confused!

And as for the Reaper - you brought it up

Jesus Christ!

[johnerotten]

"If you kids keep playing rough, somebody's gonna get hurt."

I think the reason tensions are running so high, besides the real estate and global stock market downward spiral, is because we are all suffering from BLUE BALLS thanks to POW.

let's all just redirect our anger. At least FAILEs people had the decensy to let their customers know a general time frame for release so they don't have to sit by the computer for months at a time. That's what i call decency and respect.

Cheers.

PS If anyone is in LA for the Mcallif show send me a PM. I'm in hollywood.

[tomhills1]

john's right, enough already, i think someone has had their moment in the limelight and we have all had, and mostly taken, our opportunity to respond. lets just draw a line under it and move on, yeah?

back to the thread that was kindly interrupted, would anyone like to buy a grin reaper, from a loving home having been well looked after and hopefully it will end up going to an equally appreciative one .

i'm listening to offers for the next day or so and then i will get back to those that have been kind enough already to get in touch and make one. good luck people .

p.s does anyone watch pheonix nights? do you reckon kenny snr. might have moved? maybe to malta?
;D

[manchestermike]

tomhills1 said:

p.s does anyone watch pheonix nights? do you reckon kenny snr. might have moved? maybe to malta?
;D

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Adrian, have you ever slept with Bonnie Langford?

[tomhills1]

do you know jackie chan?

[manchestermike]

I never knew you were in Vietnam Adrian!

[bobbymeachamjr]

a lot of reading - pretty entertaining. I just want to comment on one thing - I believe many people on here are just "thinking" too much because the answer is so obvious. Its too easy and people want to portray (unconsciously) an aura of more complex thought but simply BANKSY IS THE LEADER AND ALWAYS WILL BE.

[manchestermike]

Leader of?

The Free World?
The Pack?
The Gang?

[Montubu7]

The pack..........

[dave313perry]

Signed CND about to go for a steal on t'ebay! 3.2 i think

[wildbill]

For the record............

Lesbianwednesdays is top notch...

Not that this is anyone's business, but the prospect of having to sell, trade, or pack away the GR have lingered over Tom's head for a while for reasons that are none of our f**king business.

He's known for a long time that the GR is my holy grail of prints, so when the day finally came to let it go, He hit me up first to give me a shot at it, at a reasonable price, because it was more important to him to see it go to a good home than to turn a big profit on it.

So, BACK THE f**k UP OFF OF TOM!!!!!!!

If you don't know what the f**k your talking about than shut your f**king mouth!!

[numusic]

billiam said:

For the record............

Lesbianwednesdays is top notch...

Not that this is anyone's business, but the prospect of having to sell, trade, or pack away the GR have lingered over Tom's head for a while for reasons that are none of our f**king business.

He's known for a long time that the GR is my holy grail of prints, so when the day finally came to let it go, He hit me up first to give me a shot at it, at a reasonable price, because it was more important to him to see it go to a good home than to turn a big profit on it.

So, BACK THE f**k UP OFF OF TOM!!!!!!!

If you don't know what the f**k your talking about than shut your f**king mouth!!

temper temper..

[wildbill]

numusic said:

billiam said:

For the record............

Lesbianwednesdays is top notch...

Not that this is anyone's business, but the prospect of having to sell, trade, or pack away the GR have lingered over Tom's head for a while for reasons that are none of our f**king business.

He's known for a long time that the GR is my holy grail of prints, so when the day finally came to let it go, He hit me up first to give me a shot at it, at a reasonable price, because it was more important to him to see it go to a good home than to turn a big profit on it.

So, BACK THE f**k UP OFF OF TOM!!!!!!!

If you don't know what the f**k your talking about than shut your f**king mouth!!

temper temper..

Nah, I'm chillin:)

Sometimes you have to speak up a little bit to break through all the layers of ignorance and stupidity...

[numusic]

billiam said:

numusic said:

temper temper..

Nah, I'm chillin:)

Sometimes you have to speak up a little bit to break through all the layers of ignorance and stupidity...

yep.. was worried you were about to kick the dog and chuck the laptop out the window

[tomhills1]

bill, i know you're a star but please don't feel the need to get embroiled in any of our good friends entrapment scenarios.

can i just add that those that have PM'd me and also posted responses have made me feel truly humble. people i thought highly of have surpassed themselves and some i didn't know too well have made me feel just as welcome. a lot gets said about the status of this forum, good and bad and it is so nice to see people speak up.

i never felt i had to defend myself and indeed the way i went about doing so felt like i had let myself down. the encouragement i have had since just goes to show the greater, more selfless side of numerous members of this forum. those who have been in touch, big love to all of you, thanks so much.

[dotdot]

i like most folks don't have time to read threads sometimes - a won't break that habit ... for this story... (which from a scant angle looks like it's turned into a proverbial car crash)..

The guy's only trying to sell a print.

It's not a revolution.

Come on people get a grip.

.. best of luck whoever gets it - am sure it'll go to a good home - looks like it is coming from one.

cheers

..

have a nice evening..

[tomhills1]

dotdot said:

i like most folks don't have time to read threads sometimes - a won't break that habit ... for this story... (which from a scant angle looks like it's turned into a proverbial car crash)..

The guy's only trying to sell a print.

It's not a revolution.

Come on people get a grip.

.. best of luck whoever gets it - am sure it'll go to a good home - looks like it is coming from one.

cheers

have a nice evening..

i'll spare the innocent bystanders the grief of this carnage: SOLD.

thanks so much to all who got in touch, just goes to show that the early bird catches the worm. a lot of good offers but none much better than one of the first few i received, so it pays to get in touch quickly. well, with me at least.

cheers very much everyone, tom.