[love]

Heard Steve had a expensive trip to Miami.

[Winter]

On a separate note I like that an artist decided to call himself 'Blood Sausage'

[rottenredrooster]

Dec 7, 2011 0:18:07 GMT 1 Winter said:

On a separate note I like that an artist decided to call himself 'Blood Sausage'

hahah ;D

[maumau93]

Dec 6, 2011 21:59:01 GMT 1 Argiebaji said:

Just seen these from my emails from Laz...

Zevs | Liquidated Louis Vuitton (Multicolore) (2011)
70cm x 48cm
17-colour screen print on Arches 88 300gsm paper
Edition of 50 signed by the artist
£400

Invader | Invaded Scream (2011)
21cm x 31.5cm
Woodcut on Fabriano Rosipina Avorio 285gsm paper
Edition of 50 signed by the artist
£280

So why the difference....... Invader =£280 ...Zevs =£480...same emails ....no mention of VAT....

poor form, he shoulda just taken the hit its not like he/they cant afford it charging those prices, gotta say laz has always pissed me off with its greedy attitude

[max711]

Dec 7, 2011 0:04:13 GMT 1 dundun said:

Dec 6, 2011 22:57:25 GMT 1 @max711 said:

I used to live stateside and always paid the same price (including VAT) as folks in the UK for prints from POW and Black Rat when buying online. Don't see what the problem is, you see the price, you choose to buy it or you don't. Simple as that.

I didn't get charged VAT for my Dran "Art Thief", nor any Banksy. Don't know what you're talking about.

I didn't say you got charged VAT, I'm saying you paid exactly the same as someone in the UK would. If the Banksy print (I wish!) goes online at POW now for £500 you'll pay exactly that anywhere in the world, they will not refund the VAT.

[Deleted]

Dec 7, 2011 0:04:13 GMT 1 dundun said:

Dec 6, 2011 22:57:25 GMT 1 @max711 said:

I used to live stateside and always paid the same price (including VAT) as folks in the UK for prints from POW and Black Rat when buying online. Don't see what the problem is, you see the price, you choose to buy it or you don't. Simple as that.

I didn't get charged VAT for my Dran "Art Thief", nor any Banksy. Don't know what you're talking about.

Did either of you pay the same price as UK/EU customers on your purchases? If so, was there anything about VAT on the invoice or just a total?

[Ottomatik]

Dec 6, 2011 22:25:36 GMT 1 LAZARIDES said:

The Outsiders do not, nor have we ever had the facility for VAT free shopping online, and do not refund any VAT for online orders delivered to the Channel Islands or outside of the EU. The price you see on the website is inclusive of VAT, and is the price you will be charged wherever you live, just as it always has been.

It's perhaps worth noting that this, we believe, is exactly the same protocol used by similar well known online galleries in their retailing of print editions.

Anyone who purchased this print is of course welcome to a no-quibble full refund if they are in any way dissatisfied with our terms of service. We'd like to conclude by once again apologising for the typo regarding the price of this edition in our mailout of 3 days ago, it was not our intention to mislead or misrepresent the intended price of this edition.

Scrooge strikes again!

1- Why should folks that do not live in the UK have to pay a VAT?
2-So you're saying that because 'similar well known galleries' do it, that's your reason for doing it?
3-If it was just a 'typo' on the email, why did your team reaffirm the £400 price on Twitter today?

Seems MBW gave Steve a crash course in customer service while they were in Miami.

[sohohoho]

www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/exports/goods.htm#6

[lazk]

Dec 6, 2011 22:25:36 GMT 1 LAZARIDES said:

The Outsiders do not, nor have we ever had the facility for VAT free shopping online, and do not refund any VAT for online orders delivered to the Channel Islands or outside of the EU. The price you see on the website is inclusive of VAT, and is the price you will be charged wherever you live, just as it always has been.

It's perhaps worth noting that this, we believe, is exactly the same protocol used by similar well known online galleries in their retailing of print editions.

Anyone who purchased this print is of course welcome to a no-quibble full refund if they are in any way dissatisfied with our terms of service. We'd like to conclude by once again apologising for the typo regarding the price of this edition in our mailout of 3 days ago, it was not our intention to mislead or misrepresent the intended price of this edition.

This is your response? LOL. Really? Wow. Awesome.

[heathunter881]

which government organization can we report Outsiders to? charging international buyers VAT doesn't sit well with me. i wouldn't be surprised if auditors finds conflicting numbers in their books.

i can understand the pricing error (even though it sounds bs), but to charge the same price to international buyers and to local buyers is crossing the illegal line isn't it? why in the world do international buyers have to pay for VAT when we don't even live in the UK?

[mmmike]

If it is the case that you are collecting and submitting VAT then it should show that on the invoice so customers from out of the country can get their money back from the Gov.

This smells really stank!

I bought the print for a friend, if it was for me I would return it. Even though I'm sure there is enough demand that it wouldn't make a difference to you.

I guess I won't be shopping with Laz any time soon.

[howies]

I am sure most of these went OS which is a nice little bonus for LAZ as I'm sure they don't share the bonus VAT with Zevs, but in saying that I have only experienced one gallery in over 30 transactions refunding VAT or tax and that was RotoFugi in the US, So my experience is they are all doing it and have been for years, it just seems to have been made a big deal this time due to incorrect pricing on email.

[sal]

just to add my share to this heated discussion:

I live outside EU, and while Im regularly getting my VAT back through tax free on tech stuff, car parts, etc, I never got any money for the prints I bought.. doesn't matter if they were ordered online (POW, StolenSpace, etc), or in person and I took them on a plane (POW, NellyDuff, etc), I always paid the full price... same goes with galleries in Amsterdam.. I was told these items are under different marge (!?), and cause of that, they can't issue any tax refund..

hope that helps..

[sohohoho]

Dec 7, 2011 1:38:04 GMT 1 sohohoho said:

www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/exports/goods.htm#6

[heathunter881]

considering it's close to Christmas and they pulled a price hike (or mistake), i think the entire VAT from international buyers needs to be refunded without any fuss. it's one thing if customers only spent £100, but at £480 Lazarides already pocketed enough for the holidays.

i don't think any US customers should stand for this either. i suggest requesting VAT refund or full refund of purchase.

[sal]

Dec 7, 2011 2:25:57 GMT 1 Express Post said:

Nelly Duff do work out arrangements for refunding a portion for overseas buyers

now that you mentioned, it COULD be that I worked something out with them (or was it that the owner was a very friendly guy).. but even if that's the case, from my experience that is one in don't-know-how-many...

I would however love to hear if there is a way to do something about this, but from what I was told, I doubt...

I actually believe there is a complicated way to do something, but since galleries are aware of the demand, they just go with NO.. and if you dont like it, the guy after you will buy it with no question asked..

[misterx]

Is it legal though??
that, dear Watson, is the question.

[Grubster]

I just bought this earlier and noticed im being charged VAT... I live in California and have bought multiple prints ect from the UK and rest of the world and have NEVER been charged VAT! just ask DFace at stolenspace or POW or even shady ass old "Leonard street gallery" beejoir LV sculpture...they didnt charge me VAt neither!
I hope to be getting an email from them regarding this issue soon. Especially since someone has posted a link to the law and regulations regarding VAT in the UK !

[mmmike]

Dec 7, 2011 2:19:15 GMT 1 sohohoho said:

Dec 7, 2011 1:38:04 GMT 1 sohohoho said:

www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/exports/goods.htm#6

If it is the case that they can't separate out VAT and charge all VAT that would been both invoices would show VAT.

Laz is just charging "outsiders" extra.

Shady

[mmmike]

I think someone needs to get audited.

[artso]

and I highly doubt they are turning over those funds to the taxman...they are not listing the VAT charge as VAT on the invoice to outside EU customers so in essence they are not charging outsiders VAT they are charging a different price...no VAT to give back...shady but not sure on legality...definitely not the right way no matter who is doing it...

[mmmike]

Dec 7, 2011 2:41:09 GMT 1 misterx said:

Is it legal though??
that, dear Watson, is the question.

Legal or not I don't think it is ethical, or anyway to treat your customers.

But yes I hope someone in the UK can check the legality and it would be interested to see if Laz's records with the tax man are on the up and up.

[mouser]

Good greif, its hardly the end of the world, does it really warrant 7 pages?

I'd be just as interested to hear who reports profits made on selling prints on ebay to the tax man etc.....

How many of those who are up in arms about this actually bought or intended to buy one of these prints?

Write a letter of complaint to the Daily Mail and get on with living your life.

i know I've not bought anything through Laz for a while, but do know that I have been charged VAT on top of sale prices on some original / new pieces.

[Gentle Mental]

Pow charge everyOne a fixed price...

[letiss]

Overpriced at £400, an easy pass at £480.

At the Invader preview last week I was struck by the behaviour of the staff at the Outsiders. I had just forked out 280 notes on an Invader and then got one of their the much discussed waffles. I told them I was taking it home and I was accused by one member of staff who had just taken my money of going to sell the offending waffle on eBay. Whether that was my intention or not I can't think of any other business where you would be insulted after just spending such a significant amount of money. For that reason, I'll be thinking v. carefully before I buy from this outfit again.

[Happy Shopper]

It's an interesting question about VAT.
I've never understood why some galleries mention VAT on some items and not on others. If I remember right, some POW hand finished prints recently have been £Price + VAT, but not most of their stock. Is the VAT just hidden?

Reading the HMRC website it doesn't sound like any retailer HAS TO refund VAT to over seas buyers. In fact it sounds like they have to prove the case with paperwork if they want to give a refund... and frankly, who wants to bother!?

[Deleted]

In my experience I have only ever been charged £££+VAT on OGs and some hand-finished works. Standard release prints have been at "retail" price (VAT included).

It seems Laz/Outsiders are sending prints abroad at the same price as the UK ones with no declaration of VAT paid - which doesn't seem right. It all looks a bit shoddy to me and on top of that, their customer service is lacking at best...

[Winter]

Look sold out anyway

[Forbidden Love]

Dec 7, 2011 8:30:19 GMT 1 letiss said:

Overpriced at £400, an easy pass at £480.

At the Invader preview last week I was struck by the behaviour of the staff at the Outsiders. I had just forked out 280 notes on an Invader and then got one of their the much discussed waffles. I told them I was taking it home and I was accused by one member of staff who had just taken my money of going to sell the offending waffle on eBay. Whether that was my intention or not I can't think of any other business where you would be insulted after just spending such a significant amount of money. For that reason, I'll be thinking v. carefully before I buy from this outfit again.

that is fu**in disgusting of them. how unprofessional, if you paid the money, queued, whatever, you can do what you like with what ever you buy. and it was for the £1 waffle to eat...what a bunch of morons. what is it to them what your gonna do. i wouldve stuck two fingers up at them and told them where to go. why should they give a shit anyway, not going to affect anyone. they do need to sort there staff/ethos out, i remember being treated like shit over the phone and in person at the faile show.

god, i hate the gallery anyway and wont buy any of their overpriced shite. (minus some bits, but wouldnt want to give them any money due to thier customer service)

[manty]

Dec 8, 2011 1:21:04 GMT 1 Forbidden Love said:

Dec 7, 2011 8:30:19 GMT 1 letiss said:

Overpriced at £400, an easy pass at £480.

At the Invader preview last week I was struck by the behaviour of the staff at the Outsiders. I had just forked out 280 notes on an Invader and then got one of their the much discussed waffles. I told them I was taking it home and I was accused by one member of staff who had just taken my money of going to sell the offending waffle on eBay. Whether that was my intention or not I can't think of any other business where you would be insulted after just spending such a significant amount of money. For that reason, I'll be thinking v. carefully before I buy from this outfit again.

Just out of interest, did you ebay it?

I think its called humour? or have i missed something again?