hungrig
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May 2006
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Falling Prices, by hungrig on Mar 20, 2007 14:46:27 GMT 1, thomas,
By way of qualification, corporations like Clinique are different to the art world in that they have legally enforceable, national and international distribution contracts in place which dictate how and where their products are marketed and sold.
Clinique, for example, would not want its products available at Woolworths because it would be detrimental to and devalue its brand image, not to mention alienate its existing clientele who would not wish to be associated with a discount store. Likewise, distributors of Clinique products would insist that they are contractually protected from being undercut by other distributors (who may have sourced Clinique products more cheaply from other countries). This protection comes in different forms, such as restricting the number of outlets authorised to distribute the products and insisting that the recommended retail price is respected.
The legislation, the regulatory regime and the market are very different for art. Even if they wanted to, Laz or Banksy could not go to eBay and tell them that Laz has the monopoly when it comes to Banksy pieces, no secondary market is permitted, and only Laz can sell on eBay. Nor could they stop sales through other secondary sources, be it the proper auction houses like Sotheby's or galleries like Andipa (regarding the latter, imagine how much they would have liked to!). The most they could do to get a authentic Banksy piece removed from eBay is to disingenuously claim that it was stolen or was not genuine.
thomas,
By way of qualification, corporations like Clinique are different to the art world in that they have legally enforceable, national and international distribution contracts in place which dictate how and where their products are marketed and sold.
Clinique, for example, would not want its products available at Woolworths because it would be detrimental to and devalue its brand image, not to mention alienate its existing clientele who would not wish to be associated with a discount store. Likewise, distributors of Clinique products would insist that they are contractually protected from being undercut by other distributors (who may have sourced Clinique products more cheaply from other countries). This protection comes in different forms, such as restricting the number of outlets authorised to distribute the products and insisting that the recommended retail price is respected.
The legislation, the regulatory regime and the market are very different for art. Even if they wanted to, Laz or Banksy could not go to eBay and tell them that Laz has the monopoly when it comes to Banksy pieces, no secondary market is permitted, and only Laz can sell on eBay. Nor could they stop sales through other secondary sources, be it the proper auction houses like Sotheby's or galleries like Andipa (regarding the latter, imagine how much they would have liked to!). The most they could do to get a authentic Banksy piece removed from eBay is to disingenuously claim that it was stolen or was not genuine.
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Falling Prices, by slowmo on Mar 20, 2007 15:50:21 GMT 1, There is no company on earth who would sign a contract to a supplier that guarantee's no other supplier will sell it cheaper.
Unless it was an exclusive supplier agreement, which does hit the art world.
There is no company on earth who would sign a contract to a supplier that guarantee's no other supplier will sell it cheaper.
Unless it was an exclusive supplier agreement, which does hit the art world.
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hungrig
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Posts โข 173
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May 2006
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Falling Prices, by hungrig on Mar 20, 2007 17:26:51 GMT 1, Perhaps not in such a black and white manner. Retaining the example of Clinique, it would be them telling their distributors "This is the RRP. Your prices should not be below [x]% of the RRP (except during the January and July sales, when they can be lower but not below [y]% of the RRP). A price war between you, our distributors, is in none of our interests. In addition, prices that are too low will diminish the prestige value of our products. So watch it, or we will revoke your contract.".
Laz is currently the exclusive authorised primary source for all new Banksy work (with the exception of POW and Banksy screenprints). However, he has only a limited control over what happens on the Banksy secondary market. This is not to say he has no influence over it. His pricing structure directly and immediately impacts the pricing on the secondary market (and vice versa). There is also the "I'll drip-feed you, Sotheby's, the odd interesting Banksy piece provided you don't accept consignments that are works clearly nicked from the street, like those bastards at Bonhams".
Perhaps not in such a black and white manner. Retaining the example of Clinique, it would be them telling their distributors "This is the RRP. Your prices should not be below [x]% of the RRP (except during the January and July sales, when they can be lower but not below [y]% of the RRP). A price war between you, our distributors, is in none of our interests. In addition, prices that are too low will diminish the prestige value of our products. So watch it, or we will revoke your contract.".
Laz is currently the exclusive authorised primary source for all new Banksy work (with the exception of POW and Banksy screenprints). However, he has only a limited control over what happens on the Banksy secondary market. This is not to say he has no influence over it. His pricing structure directly and immediately impacts the pricing on the secondary market (and vice versa). There is also the "I'll drip-feed you, Sotheby's, the odd interesting Banksy piece provided you don't accept consignments that are works clearly nicked from the street, like those bastards at Bonhams".
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Falling Prices, by slowmo on Mar 20, 2007 17:42:15 GMT 1, Thats fair enough, got confused on your wording, you made it sound like the buyer would want compensation from clinique for any undercutting by other retailers, but I see that what you mean is that Clinique would stop supplying to those who continue to de-value their product.
Thats fair enough, got confused on your wording, you made it sound like the buyer would want compensation from clinique for any undercutting by other retailers, but I see that what you mean is that Clinique would stop supplying to those who continue to de-value their product.
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tadghostal
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Posts โข 491
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February 2007
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Falling Prices, by tadghostal on Mar 20, 2007 17:54:31 GMT 1, You guys know an awful lot about make up.
You guys know an awful lot about make up.
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dwight
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Posts โข 539
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November 2006
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Falling Prices, by dwight on Mar 21, 2007 3:31:15 GMT 1, Let me throw in two more cents on this one...
hungrig is right on about how the distributors work and how entities protect their product image.
The only thing that I want add is that (in the US anway) if you purchase an item legitimately, you have the right from the first sale doctrine to resell it. You own the item, you can describe it, photo it, and sell it. No matter if you buy the item on closeout or pay full price, you can resell it. The real key is knowing that the merchandise is 100% authentic and proving the source.
Let me throw in two more cents on this one...
hungrig is right on about how the distributors work and how entities protect their product image.
The only thing that I want add is that (in the US anway) if you purchase an item legitimately, you have the right from the first sale doctrine to resell it. You own the item, you can describe it, photo it, and sell it. No matter if you buy the item on closeout or pay full price, you can resell it. The real key is knowing that the merchandise is 100% authentic and proving the source.
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pezlow
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,388
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January 2007
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Falling Prices, by pezlow on Mar 21, 2007 14:13:36 GMT 1, I doubt that any of this will happen because artists LOVE having a secondary market. Some do of course get narked off by the scalpers (eg eelus) but most are keen to have it and some engineer it.
I doubt that any of this will happen because artists LOVE having a secondary market. Some do of course get narked off by the scalpers (eg eelus) but most are keen to have it and some engineer it.
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jellya
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,738
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November 2006
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Falling Prices, by jellya on Mar 21, 2007 15:28:03 GMT 1, cheep NW moll right now 120099306512
cheep NW moll right now 120099306512
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BK83
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,604
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October 2006
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Falling Prices, by BK83 on Mar 21, 2007 16:36:54 GMT 1, Whilst the comparison to clinique was insightful -- it has no real bearing on this discussion because it refers solely to first market distribution. what is being discussed here is the transaction after first market selling has transpired -- thus aptly titled 'secondary market'. no matter what price you guys buy your make-up at you could conceivably resell at any price -- the only limitations being set by either the seller (you) or the buyer. This is what is happening with the Banksy market.
J
Whilst the comparison to clinique was insightful -- it has no real bearing on this discussion because it refers solely to first market distribution. what is being discussed here is the transaction after first market selling has transpired -- thus aptly titled 'secondary market'. no matter what price you guys buy your make-up at you could conceivably resell at any price -- the only limitations being set by either the seller (you) or the buyer. This is what is happening with the Banksy market. J
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Falling Prices, by corblimeylimey on Mar 21, 2007 16:48:49 GMT 1, cheep NW moll right now 120099306512
Sold for ยฃ23 less than purchase price
cheep NW moll right now 120099306512 Sold for ยฃ23 less than purchase price
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Falling Prices, by finsburyparkranger on Mar 21, 2007 18:14:59 GMT 1, Its an ugly print isn't it? Someone's bought that to sell i would imagine. The hardcore would have picked it up if they wanted it. Otherwise the outside world is probably not going to be interested in something thats not pleasing to the eye, the mind or the pocket. Which in this case, is niether. I would speculate that the person that bought that doesn't really like it either. They're just banking on it making them a few bucks further down the line.
Its an ugly print isn't it? Someone's bought that to sell i would imagine. The hardcore would have picked it up if they wanted it. Otherwise the outside world is probably not going to be interested in something thats not pleasing to the eye, the mind or the pocket. Which in this case, is niether. I would speculate that the person that bought that doesn't really like it either. They're just banking on it making them a few bucks further down the line.
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stuey09
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Posts โข 49
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August 2008
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Falling Prices, by stuey09 on Mar 21, 2007 18:34:11 GMT 1, Its an ugly print isn't it? Someone's bought that to sell i would imagine. The hardcore would have picked it up if they wanted it. Otherwise the outside world is probably not going to be interested in something thats not pleasing to the eye, the mind or the pocket. Which in this case, is niether. I would speculate that the person that bought that doesn't really like it either. They're just banking on it making them a few bucks further down the line.
I wouldn't call it an ugly print, it's just not very inspirational. However, I'm sure it floats somebody's boat, which is the beauty of art. Just got back on line so happy days to CBL and those that got their TS today. I'm still waiting, so am now looking forward to tomorrow.
Its an ugly print isn't it? Someone's bought that to sell i would imagine. The hardcore would have picked it up if they wanted it. Otherwise the outside world is probably not going to be interested in something thats not pleasing to the eye, the mind or the pocket. Which in this case, is niether. I would speculate that the person that bought that doesn't really like it either. They're just banking on it making them a few bucks further down the line. I wouldn't call it an ugly print, it's just not very inspirational. However, I'm sure it floats somebody's boat, which is the beauty of art. Just got back on line so happy days to CBL and those that got their TS today. I'm still waiting, so am now looking forward to tomorrow.
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Falling Prices, by johnas on Mar 21, 2007 18:39:08 GMT 1, the winner is a member here
no, tis not me
the winner is a member here no, tis not me
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Falling Prices, by corblimeylimey on Mar 21, 2007 20:13:53 GMT 1, Well, he's got a good deal.
Well, he's got a good deal.
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Falling Prices, by bristolmassive on Mar 21, 2007 22:14:45 GMT 1, Its an ugly print isn't it? Someone's bought that to sell i would imagine. The hardcore would have picked it up if they wanted it. Otherwise the outside world is probably not going to be interested in something thats not pleasing to the eye, the mind or the pocket. Which in this case, is niether. I would speculate that the person that bought that doesn't really like it either. They're just banking on it making them a few bucks further down the line.
I resemble those remarks! Each to their own as they say.
Its an ugly print isn't it? Someone's bought that to sell i would imagine. The hardcore would have picked it up if they wanted it. Otherwise the outside world is probably not going to be interested in something thats not pleasing to the eye, the mind or the pocket. Which in this case, is niether. I would speculate that the person that bought that doesn't really like it either. They're just banking on it making them a few bucks further down the line. I resemble those remarks! Each to their own as they say.
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Falling Prices, by corblimeylimey on Mar 22, 2007 10:48:51 GMT 1, bristolmassive, you are now officially hardcore. ;D
bristolmassive, you are now officially hardcore. ;D
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adaminnash
New Member
Posts โข 16
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March 2021
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Falling Prices, by adaminnash on May 8, 2021 15:31:34 GMT 1, it's weird as there doesn't seem to be a lot to buy at the moment, i've been waiting for a bombhugger to pop up for weeks and weeks and what with another 3000 prints to be released (??!!!!!ยฃ$%%$ ??ยฃFuCkINHurrYUpยฃ"! ?**&^%$$ยฃ ?) a good 750-1000 of which will be on ebay I think prices will maybe fall a little more....but then again who the fuck knows.
Not following you hereโฆ.another 3,000 prints to be released?
it's weird as there doesn't seem to be a lot to buy at the moment, i've been waiting for a bombhugger to pop up for weeks and weeks and what with another 3000 prints to be released (??!!!!!ยฃ$%%$ ??ยฃFuCkINHurrYUpยฃ"! ?**&^%$$ยฃ ?) a good 750-1000 of which will be on ebay I think prices will maybe fall a little more....but then again who the fuck knows. Not following you hereโฆ.another 3,000 prints to be released?
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adaminnash
New Member
Posts โข 16
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March 2021
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Falling Prices, by adaminnash on May 8, 2021 15:35:31 GMT 1, Ha. Wow. Well there ya go ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
Ha. Wow. Well there ya go ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
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chichi carter
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,265
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February 2011
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Falling Prices, by chichi carter on May 8, 2021 16:00:53 GMT 1, What's the deal with 15 year old threads suddenly popping up in the 'new threads' section? It's been going on for a couple of weeks now. You don't need to answer my question, I'm just 'thinking out loud' here...
What's the deal with 15 year old threads suddenly popping up in the 'new threads' section? It's been going on for a couple of weeks now. You don't need to answer my question, I'm just 'thinking out loud' here...
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Falling Prices, by Coach on May 8, 2021 21:05:16 GMT 1, What's the deal with 15 year old threads suddenly popping up in the 'new threads' section? ย It's been going on for a couple of weeks now. ย You don't need to answer my question, I'm just 'thinking out loud' here... going on an educated guess but i feel like ppl r joining recently, searching something, thread pops up, n they donโt look at the date b4 replying is all.... ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ
I suspect that in this instance you are wrong. Sometimes admin bumps old threads to the top, for reasons that are sometimes obvious and sometimes not. I suspect that this has happened on this occasion.
What's the deal with 15 year old threads suddenly popping up in the 'new threads' section? ย It's been going on for a couple of weeks now. ย You don't need to answer my question, I'm just 'thinking out loud' here... going on an educated guess but i feel like ppl r joining recently, searching something, thread pops up, n they donโt look at the date b4 replying is all.... ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ I suspect that in this instance you are wrong. Sometimes admin bumps old threads to the top, for reasons that are sometimes obvious and sometimes not. I suspect that this has happened on this occasion.
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Falling Prices, by Lroy on May 8, 2021 21:51:11 GMT 1, going on an educated guess but i feel like ppl r joining recently, searching something, thread pops up, n they donโt look at the date b4 replying is all.... ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ I suspect that in this instance you are wrong. Sometimes admin bumps old threads to the top, for reasons that are sometimes obvious and sometimes not. I suspect that this has happened on this occasion.
Yes I have had one of mine popped up too with Dr Plip ( drip - where are you ? ) quoting me . It was last week.. there was CHN too , soir CNH.. but it was not a bump from a member ... No answer .. Weirdos
going on an educated guess but i feel like ppl r joining recently, searching something, thread pops up, n they donโt look at the date b4 replying is all.... ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ I suspect that in this instance you are wrong. Sometimes admin bumps old threads to the top, for reasons that are sometimes obvious and sometimes not. I suspect that this has happened on this occasion. Yes I have had one of mine popped up too with Dr Plip ( drip - where are you ? ) quoting me . It was last week.. there was CHN too , soir CNH.. but it was not a bump from a member ... No answer .. Weirdos
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