[sausageboonwee]

After a pretty long spell on ebay without any, one has finally emerged. I'm reckoning this may be the first Morons to clear £4k given its additional rarity.

I should point out that this isn't mine but I wish it was. If it was it sure wouldn't be on ebay.

[teatwosugars]

Definitely agree with you there sausageboonwee

There's still just under 7 days to go and it's already been bid up to £3100 (why do people do that?!)

Even without it's scarcity I still prefer it over the sepia version. It's a tidy ebay listing as well. Wouldn't be suprised if it hit four and a half

Whatever happens I'm sure it'll make the first one that came up a month ago for a buy it now of £2999 look like an absolute steal!!!

[bond]

i really don't get why people pile in with big bids straight away.

I'd like to play poker with some of these ebay buyers !


i was watching that , for all of an hour until it got stupid.

Makes me think i should have just bitten the big one and bought a sepia for $ 5,000 -

or maybe i should just forget it !!!

[jam]

Its the famous ebay "I must be the high bidder at all times" syndrome.

All this time I thought the important part was to be the high bidder at the end...

[bond]

clearly we are both wrong mate !!! funny thing is it only seems to happen with art .

I reckon this is why the unsigned prices are starting to rise and rise . People are now getting ever more desparate to own a Banksy.

[dave313perry]

Definately! i think its because the difference between supply and demand is gradually getting further and further apart! soon we will be saying 'remember when you could pick up a sepia for 2.5k' if only!!

[jam]

While I don't want to call it hysteria, it surely seems like quite a frenzy. I do see good value in the market for unsigned prints in relation to the cost of signed prints, but I am afraid the people buying to fill holes in their collections are the minority at the moment. I think the majority of the buyers paying very high prices are getting worried about missing out on the continued rise and therefore feel that they need to purchase at whatever price it takes just to be holding anything as or if the prices continue to rise. It becomes a self perpetuating market and that is not a good thing in my eyes.

I have been buying the prints I really want hanging on my walls, and I am not in a position that if the prices were cut in 1/4 tomorrow that I would regret buying any of them nor would I be crushed that I paid todays prices. I do think the people buying out of reaction to the price increases and talk of easy money and a sure investment will be in a bad spot if the market goes the other way. It concerns me to hear people talking about maxed credit cards and one guy mentioned he needed to sell a few prints to make his mortgage. These are not good signs. Their buying seems more reactionary to the frenzied price raises than to buying a print because it means something to them. Time will tell...

[bond]

Wise words - and as you wrote that the signed print climbs to £ 3,700 ! dear god.

[daz205]

glad i got one for $4k about a month ago seems cheap now but i was worried at the tme

[bond]

problem was i am so annoyed that my POW basket crashed so many times with a signed Morons in it that i refuse to be held to ransom for such high money.

I really like Morons ( the print ! ) and think it's a good statement - let's face it people are now paying several months mortgage money for a print that was priced at £ 650 , or £ 500.

However as most were on EBAY.COM i was too fearful of customs charges so let them all go .

Now it seems that whatever small opportunity there was to get one for around £ 2,500 has gone .


Fingers crossed for the next one !

[Tyler Durden]

Iconic Banksy image. Simple as. I remember teetering on the edge of buying a Grin Reaper and Jack and Jill/police kids print for £2.5k a piece. Those times are gone, as are my chances of picking up a signed Morons at a reasonable price.

[Winter]

There appears to be one hanging around the £3k mark which finishes soon. In a few months that may seem quite 'reasonable'. It is in the UK as well.

[bond]

another sepia just went for $ 6 k on ebay.com

[dgb133]

Already bid up to 4GBP with almost a week to go

I think the moral of this story is ...don't buy the most expensive colourway unless you really like it. I have the black and white unsigned and like it much better than the brown version.

While I don't want to call it hysteria, it surely seems like quite a frenzy.

Not only hysteria but speculation too. I've noted one or two ebayers that have bought at least a dozen prints recently ...including several copies of the same print. Can't remember which ebayer it was now but I'm sure there are even more of these guys out there. But bubbles happen when speculators come in. Speculator's are by nature rising prices artifically as they are not truly part of the supply and demand circle and just prey upon peoples emotions.

And having to place a bid for 4k 7 days before auction ends!?!
That's what you do when you let your emotions make your decisions for you. People are getting out of hand.

And well ...I have to admit that it's become such a vicious circle that I almost bought myself a second unsigned morons (for trading purposes) back when I got mine in the low 400s and could have gotten another for slightly less, but I passed, trying to keep money free in case I might win a signed version for cheap still.

But at this point I'm completely done with the idea of spending that much money on a signed morons. There are other prints I'd much rather spend that much loot on ...if I even had that much loot. I'll wait for the next couple releases on POW and see what happens.

[ABC]

I don't think they are speculators, I think they would be galleries buying for stock.
Take Andipa for instance, a gallery normally associated in dealing high end Fine art, Picasso's, Warhol's etc etc, until recently mind. They could afford to buy these prints selling at 5-10k knowing they would have customers waiting and willing to pay double to get a banksy to show their dinner party guests. These are not the sort of people who would buy from ebay, saying to a guest "Yeah I got it on ebay" doesn't have the same cred as "Bought it from a gallery in Kensington"
I'm also amazed how quick the market has risen in Banksy prints but Look how much Hirst's work commands, 10 years time and Mr B will be in the same Ball park, IMO of course.

[dgb133]

Personally I don't buy that. Even if it is a gallery it's still speculation. Buying 2-3 Morons (plus a dozen other printss in a 1 month period) off of ebay is definitely speculation no matter who you are in my book.

but Look how much Hirst's work commands, 10 years time and Mr B will be in the same Ball park, IMO of course.

What!? As far as price, hype, and demad Mr B is already there and beyond! Hirst has made much fewer prints than Banksy yet his Valliums for example still sell for only £3-4000 on ebay now, and it took years for them to get bid up that high. While Morons is already beyond that immediately after its release. Sure Valium can sell for £10k at a gallery but...

compared to Banksy Hirst's prints look like nobody wants them. You can even get a signed spin etching or lithograph for £1-2k sometimes. The cheapest signed Banksy is about £4k

The big question to me is whether in 10 years time Mr B will still be all the rage or whether the art world will have moved on? (No offense to Mr B ) Or will his prints generate only moderate interest on ebay at that point? I mean I think Banksy has definitely made a permanent mark on the art world. But this kind of hype and absurd rise in price just isn't sustainable forever. People have a limited attention span.

[Run Pig Run]

thats what we were saying this time last year.

[dgb133]

Year ago? But only 6 months ago you could get Banksy prints at half price! And I think it's probably going to take several years to get "their Banksy out" of everyones system in my opinon.

But comparing Banksy and Hirst. Hirst is highly esteemed artist at this point, but he definitely doesn't have the hype like he used to. There isn't always really heavy bidding action on ebay for his prints now. And still a lot of people don't like the guy and a lot of people are already viewing the guy as old and stodgy. YBAs are starting to look rather quaint right now in my opinon. Although I still love them

Anyone know the name of the book talking about how the YBAs or mainly Hirst has transformed himself after the 90s? Had a lego diorama on the cover of Hirst and his shark? I wanted to read it but now I can't find it anymore?

[gordy]

Go an see the skull...

wow!!! is all i will say..but make your own mind up etc...

[dgb133]

I didn't like it at first, but hey I like the Skull actually.

And it looks like the high bidder withdrew their 4000 bid off of B&W Morons. It will probably get back up their again though...

[dgb133]

Anyone know the name of the book talking about how the YBAs or mainly Hirst has transformed himself after the 90s? Had a lego diorama on the cover of Hirst and his shark? I wanted to read it but now I can't find it anymore?

I found it. Anyone read this? ...High-Art-Lite-
www.amazon.co.uk/High-Art-Lite-British-Expanded/dp/1844670856/ref=sr_1_2/105-7155254-5872422?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182004923&sr=1-2

[ruat caelum]

dgb133 said:

But comparing Banksy and Hirst. Hirst is highly esteemed artist at this point, but he definitely doesn't have the hype like he used to. There isn't always really heavy bidding action on ebay for his prints now. And still a lot of people don't like the guy and a lot of people are already viewing the guy as old and stodgy. YBAs are starting to look rather quaint right now in my opinon. Although I still love them

Regarding Hirst prices on eBay, one of the main reasons for the lack of heavy bidding may be that even his prints are now out of eBay's league. In other words, it may be more to do with the fact that eBay is no longer Hirst's market, rather than an indication of a lack of his popularity. Just check out the frenzied bidding for Hirst pieces at the established auction houses and the prices he secures at galleries.

Few serious and sophisticated sellers would now consider selling a Hirst on eBay, just as few would do so with a Warhol. Potential buyers with enough cash or credit to purchase a Hirst will usually be aware of this. The number of high-profile fakes that have come on to the market (a couple of which even fooled Christies for a period of time) will make people even more wary of purchasing on eBay.

Although Banksy is not quite there yet, he hasn't got far to go.

[ABC]

Buying hirst prints on ebay is risky, with the fakes floating around why would you take the risk?. In my post I wasnt talking about Hirst's prints, these are small fry to Him, I was talking about Mr Hirst as an all round "world" established artist. Im sure Banksy could not command 50m a work, Yet. Dont get me wrong I love Banksy more than Hirst Im just making a point.

[dgb133]

Well yes and no. But even at auction a Valium print will only fetch £10k maybe? Possibly less. A lot of Banksy's are fetching more even though there are more Banksy prints out there. Because, (I think) Banksy has got all the hype right now. But I read last year that some one withdrew a spot painting from Sothebys because they weren't happy with what one sold for at auction just a couple weeks before theirs was to go up for sale. Previous one sold for low estimate or below. Kind of seemed like everyone was getting over the "spot" thing. At least for a little while. Seems like Hirst peaked at the Pharmacy sale. And their was that big deal last year or the year before when Hirst bought back a bunch of work from Saatchi. He was afraid Saatchi was going to sell off a bunch of his work, which they've done to previous artists and it totally hurt their prices/image. Either way I think that had an impact on Hirst too.

But I love both Hirst and Banksy, I'm just talking about market trends. It's not always up, that's for sure. But they're both on solid ground.
www.artnet.com/net/Services/MarketTrends.aspx

[dgb133]

Buying hirst prints on ebay is risky, with the fakes floating around why would you take the risk?. In my post I wasnt talking about Hirst's prints, these are small fry to Him, I was talking about Mr Hirst as an all round "world" established artist. Im sure Banksy could not command 50m a work, Yet. Dont get me wrong I love Banksy more than Hirst Im just making a point.

Yeah but only the spot prints have supposedly been forged. I've seen other prints on ebay which go for well under what Banksy's go for. And Banksy probably couldn't get 50 mil for anything yet sure. I'm not really trying to argue though. But just comparing. I think it's weird that Banksy prices have skyrockted way faster and past what Hirst prices has. And my point is just that there has been some down years as far as prices for Hirst prints and works. And I'd be really surprised if it doesn't happen here too. Just a question of when?

Anyway this is getting way off topic, sorry...

[Winter]

I bought a Hirst 'Opium' from Eyestorm in 2000 for £500. They were on their site for about 1-1.5 years. Makes me feel better when I think of the Soup Can I changed my mind on.

[adrscib]

how much do opiums sell for today ?

re soup can... banksys soup can go for 6k right now, warhol similar editions (of 40 years ago... go for 120k on auctions...

so i doubt if their value can ever go down in the long term!

Just my opinion

[dgb133]

how much do opiums sell for today ?

re soup can... banksys soup can go for 6k right now, warhol similar editions (of 40 years ago... go for 120k on auctions...

so i doubt if their value can ever go down in the long term!

Yeah but I've seen an Opium sell for up to £4k one or two years ago. Now there's one on ebay at about £2k and will probably close under 3 I bet.

Warhols prints from 40years ago may sell for up to 120k but they never quadrupled or sextulped (or whatever it might be called) their value the second they were sold. It's taken 40 years for Warhols to command that much money, at this rate Banksy is only a couple years away.

I'm just saying the rate at which Banksy's prices has risen recently makes me worry and think it's unsustainable in the long term. Warhol's prices have gone steadily up. But no where hear as fast as this.

[jam]

Some insightful comments above on Hirst related to Banksy. The Valium prints and alike on ebay are a very sketchy buy unless you have them inspected by eyestorm. There are MANY fakes floating around, I doubt people are getting authentic pieces for £3-4000 seeing that if they have proper provenance and certification from eyestorm they bring £10-20,000 at major auction houses like Sothebys.

I can understand the comments about Galleries buying some of this for the buy & hold or for general inventory, but I am friends with a few gallery owners and when we debated the current market on Banksy they said they wouldn't be buying much from ebay as a gallery, that there are other channels they get artists work from (keep in mind they don't sell his prints, it was just a dinner discussion). Who knows... just seems anything that has price increases in the secondary market this quickly is being acted on by much more than collector demand to me.

[tomhills1]

just a quick point, hirst cannot sell his work for £50M. the skull remains un-sold at the time of writing, asking price and actual sale are sometimes a long way apart.

my opinion? banksy is over-valued right now. there are many reasons for this, the main one is hysteria. they will definitely drop at some point but that is the crux of the issue. are they yet to rise further before they drop, or are they already over-inflated? i would say the peak has yet to come, pretty soon after it though it will drop off, and quickly.

however, over time it will not only pick back up but continue to make consistent appreciation.

point being, if you like what you own or are about to buy, don't get suckered in to this whole whirlwind. if you're looking to speculate to accumalate: egg and face come to mind. good luck.

i can no longer afford to buy any re-sale work by banksy, i have a few opportunities at source, i also play the lottery - odds are about the same. my only hope, and i'm not being a schadenfraude in any way - i own a couple of banksy's, one signed - but i hope things get sensible pretty soon and we can confidently buy pieces without all the hyperbole that goes with it.

wishful thinking, i know.