[corblimeylimey]

At £2000 a signed print is too much for most of his fans, particularly one's that have been fans the longest, as for the baggers/flippers it won't stop them buying as they'll be able to make a £1000 - £2000 profit straight away, yes it's less profit but since when has that stopped them? they'll even buy a Kinsey print for around £35 and be happy selling it straight away for £70.

Of course commercially POW/Banksy should sell the prints for their true value (£3000 - £4000) and in not doing so lose money for themselves or for charity and increase the pressure on the site and enable baggers to make themselves the profit, BUT it does give his old genuine fans their only chance to still be included.

I have nothing but admiration in the selfless attitude of Banksy in keeping the prices low for the sake of his fans, if he didn't I for one would be priced out, after all £600 or so is still a hell of a lot of money for a print, SOS sell good quality signed prints for around £35 - £70.

[corblimeylimey]

There's more than one type of Banksy fan isn't there artbrute, I've bought three Banksy's from POW and paid market rate for another, they're all in frames and I've posted pics of them. Others have more money than I do and still love him just as much and have theirs framed up too, but of course they're interested in their value as they've spent perhaps well over £10,000. Others won't even frame their prints they just want the investment, and others only buy to sell immediately for profit.

As far as the value of mine, I'm not really bothered I'd be quite happy if there was a price freeze in fact. The thing is, mine are worth between £500 - £800 each and I enjoy having them on the wall, if they all were worth £2000+ I'd be wrestling with myself on whether I should sell them, I'm not sure I could justify having that kind of money hanging on the wall when I could do with a new car, new TV, extra investment in my business for a new mac and photographic equipment, but I'd really miss the Banksy's if they went.

[mickg]

Yeah - all this value definitely changes the way you think of them. I've started worrying that they don't get damaged & are insured properly. If they lost their value overnight I would be happy.

[corblimeylimey]

Great avatar mickg ;D I think that's worth a +1 ;D

[tomhills1]

carlito said:

glad to see not everyone thinks the average Banksy fan should be priced out

i really love the 'I'm alright jack' attitude... I think f5 luck is personally alot fairer than 'personal wealth' as an indicator who gets a print

at last, some actual sense spoken on this thread. U2 toured the world in 2005 and on the uk leg of their tour they had numerous price increments, the highest standing tickets were around £80. now if you love U2, you buy all the albums/singles etc and try to come see them on each tour but you only earn minimum wage, then you ain't gonna be able to afford £80.
if all standing tickets were of the flat rate of say £45-50 then the people that get to the stadium/arena first on the day will be nearer the front, not those that had the money to pay over the odds to be in the 'golden circle'.

it makes me sick to my stomach, partly 'cos i hate U2 and also because i've seen oasis a few times and they always let the first 5k in to the golden circle and when it's full the rest stand further back. ie, the more dedicated you are the more you are rewarded as opposed to the more affluent you are.

there will always be those who can afford to buy their way to the top but my support will be there for those that allow you to work your way up.

hypocrite + c*nt = bono .

[dog byte]

pezlow said:

All this talk by everyone of how the prices should go up is a bit like turkeys voting for christmas.

love that saying pezlow....

couldn't agree more...

[tomhills1]

corblimeylimey said:

There's more than one type of Banksy fan isn't there artbrute, I've bought three Banksy's from POW and paid market rate for another, they're all in frames and I've posted pics of them. Others have more money than I do and still love him just as much and have theirs framed up too, but of course they're interested in their value as they've spent perhaps well over £10,000. Others won't even frame their prints they just want the investment, and others only buy to sell immediately for profit.

As far as the value of mine, I'm not really bothered I'd be quite happy if there was a price freeze in fact. The thing is, mine are worth between £500 - £800 each and I enjoy having them on the wall, if they all were worth £2000+ I'd be wrestling with myself on whether I should sell them, I'm not sure I could justify having that kind of money hanging on the wall when I could do with a new car, new TV, extra investment in my business for a new mac and photographic equipment, but I'd really miss the Banksy's if they went.

absolutely 1 million % profound. CBL, that is pure descriptive perfection, i paid over the odds for a signed print and love it like a child (almost ), but if it were to keep rising above and beyond what i paid then it would be hard to justify it's existence. i'm not rich enough to disregard it's value, part of the reason i prefer unsigned prints, you look at it for it's artist value rather than it's monetery value.

shame i have to wait an hour to big you up.

interesting views on this though.

[paulypaul]

I don't get it. Banksy puts low cost prints on POW and makes a mint, as do POW whilst maintaining 'man of the people' image. Some of us buy them and keep them cos we love them. Some flip them and those that missed out on the first release and can afford it get to buy them and love them.

Everyone's a winner. Banksy/POW loaded. Banksy lovers of all income levels loving their Banksys...

It's a Utopian state....

[siddhartha]

are banksy fans opposed to upping the print runs?

if it's a really great image, i'm sure an edition of 5000 would also sell out.

[corblimeylimey]

artbrute said:

Sure, there's all types of Banksy fans. And I'm sure most of the people here truly enjoy the work. But I feel a lot are also manipulated, influenced, and gone greedy by the price warp factor while Banksy himself hasn't been. I believe I've even seen comments from you telling people to hold on to their prints so they can get even more money from them down the road instead of offering it up now to a Banksy fan. (As if several thousand isn't yet enough) And occasional suggestions that people should try and sell their prints to deep pockets Andipa so they can get every last cent wretched out of the print. Yet selling to Andipa might make those guys some wealth but Andipa's rich client base also puts those prints now well out of reach of the average fan. I can't believe anyone here would recommend selling their print to Andipa if they care at all about "average" fans.

Now I can't really bame them for wanting to make as much money as they can. My point is that it's funny when people keep saying that they only want to pay 500 pounds for a Banksy ...but then say those kinds of things too.

And sure, actually I have seen several people here make fair offers and give free shipping to forum members.

Much respect to those.

Yes you've heard me say "hold on to your prints, they'll be worth more in the future" I'm pretty sure that was said in reference to people immediately selling their signed Morons prints on ebay for around £2500 - £3000.

I personally have never recommended that people sell to Andipa, I may have made a comment along the lines of if you had a very pricey print eg Kate or a very expensive canvas then it's stupid to use ebay, those pieces need someone from Andipa's client list to be able to afford them, they're out of reach of your average Banksy fan anyway.

Yes I'd like to buy at £500 (about my limit) but not being rich, I can't afford to sell them for what I paid for them if in the future they're worth a lot more. Look I'm not on the bread line, I'm not on minimum wage, but I'm far from well off, I have a car worth less than £1000, I own a victorian three bedroom terrace house (council tax band C to give you an idea) which has a mortgage of over 50% on it, I don't even have a flat screen TV.

[tomhills1]

artbrute said:

shame i have to wait an hour to big you up.

Yeah, I feel sorry for you.

Your argument makes perfect sense. I mean I'm a big Jake and Dinos fan too, ever since I saw em at Sensation. So doesn' that mean I should be able to buy their prints for next to nothing? Nope, I'd love a set of their exquisite corpse ...except they sell for about $50,000. So what do I do. Live without. No, it's not the end of the world.

And, "I'm a "real" fan of U2!" I shouldn't have to pay the same price as everyone else! Come on. I see what you're saying but it also doesn't mean you deserve special treatment or that people who pay big money aren't "real" fans. Ridiculous.

I'm just saying it's a bit hypocritical here of people squeezing every last penny out of people for their precious Banksy. Yet they only want (or supposedly can afford) to pay 500 pounds for it.

please, whatever you do, don't miss the point. that being, that whatever the price is that you feel is acceptable, as a seller, don't try squeezing extra pence out of the 'ordinary' punter by pricing them out of the equation, at no point did i suggest that a wealthy U" or even banksy fan is any less a fan than john smith who stands in the pissing rain to be at the front, but he is also no more of a fan and as such should not get preferrential treatment because of the size of his wallet.

devotion, loyalty and persistance and all traits of of both the loyal and the opportunistic, but they are also all you can possess to be in with a chance, without being excluded due to wealth.

exclusivity is for self-obsessed twats who also enjoy the freemasons, golf and the ability to buy both power and respect, in their minds perhaps.

keep the playing field level and if a bagger slips through the net so be it. you pays your money, you takes your chance.

[tomhills1]

corblimeylimey said:

I have a car worth less than £1000, I own a victorian three bedroom terrace house (council tax band C to give you an idea) which has a mortgage of over 50% on it, I don't even have a flat screen TV.

my heart bleeds ;D i thought everyone had a flat screen by now CBL

my mortgage is around 80-85% so count yourself lucky, mind you you have a few years on me i suppose ;D

[corblimeylimey]

artbrute said:

And sure, actually I have seen several people here make fair offers and give free shipping to forum members.

Much respect to those.

On this board I've sold two prints, both for slightly less than I paid for them, down £10 - £20 or so I can deal with, but I'm not selling my Banksy Grannies etc for cost which would be £300-£400 less than it's worth, you'd have to be a saint to do that, or stinking rich in which case you could even afford to give it away.

Now the difference between what I can do and what Banksy can do comes down to wealth. Banksy is now wealthy enough to keep his prints at a realistic price but still the Morons print run alone is worth around a third of a million pounds gross even at his generous rates.

[ABC]

What ever price POW sell them for the baggers will double their money, fact. Even if they are sold for 2k they will still be sucked up like a Anteater feasting on a termite mound. The problem being with a 2k signed print from POW is the fact that most will go to galleries and baggers as average Joe hasn't got 2k for one.
2 years ago a few hundred quid was seen as extravagant for a signed Banksy now were are talking 2k, Please leave them at £600-£700 if your reading.

[corblimeylimey]

artbrute said:

Yes you've heard me say "hold on to your prints, they'll be worth more in the future" I'm pretty sure that was said in reference to people immediately selling their signed Morons prints on ebay for around £2500 - £3000.

Yeah, maybe? But don't you think a £2500 profit is enough? That's a pretty sick amount of money to make for doing nothing. You're on here talking about "true" banksy fans who can't afford to pay very much yet you're encouraging this atmosphere of greed and pushing people to wait and sell their prints until their even further out of reach of the average fan. And it's quite probable, but there is NO guarantee that morons will be woth more than 3000 next year. The more people talk like that the more I think it's done. Keep an eye on the Asian markets. They're teatering on collapse. Any concern about causing these people to lose money if the market tops out and they followed your advice?

Sure, I very much respect Banksy for keeping his prices low. But I'm also the only one here saying that I'm willing to pay Banksy and POW a fair price for their work and would much rather see the extra money go to them or charity instead of paying for someones flat screen. But I'm the bad guy?

No you get me wrong, I don't like people buying Banksy purely to sell for instant large profit at all, and I'm pointing out their money grabbing shortsighted actions is not the wise thing to do. I'd rather people kept their prints, put them in frames and enjoyed them, AND at the moment they're going up too, but as I said already, there's money in them even if they don't go up.

I'm very happy for you being able and willing to pay £3000 on a Banksy release, well done for being wealthy, and your I'm all right Jack attitude. Banksy understands not everyone is as fortunate as yourself and I'm glad for that as I'm obviously one of them.

And as for your flat screen snipe, I haven't got one, even though of course I could have one if I realised the profit from my Banksy prints, but as a true Banksy fan I'd rather they were on my wall.

[ABC]

We have nothing to do with the Banksys price rises, Andipa and Sothebys have raised the game to the next level, not us. Agreed that we fuel the enthusiasm in anticipation of a release but thats about it.

[corblimeylimey]

I too would rather the extra money goes to charity rather than carpet baggers pockets.

FYI I have only got unsigned Banksy prints.

I must say your attitude comes across as I'll pay cos I'm rich enough to and any one who's not as rich as me, let them eat cake.

[tomhills1]

artbrute said:

yet you're encouraging this atmosphere of greed and pushing people to wait and sell their prints until their even further out of reach of the average fan.

i think you're taking those remarks out of context artbrute, CBL would have said that only to someone in either sarcasm to point out the baggers shortsightedness, or as i have done, advised people to hold on for more money because i think it's rude if someone comes on here, ie. magrets? who has a love is in the air A/P and is thinking of selling. i would always advise someone in their best interests, as long as i trusted their intentions. i don't want to see a genuine fan get mugged, although out of context that may sound like i'm telling them to protect their interests and hold out for top dollar.

you raise some interesting arguments artbrute and i know from the past you're a big fan but in spite of the point you make that you would rather pay POW/banksy/charity the 'true' market value, than a bagger, would you not rather pay a very good price to them and be better off yourself whilst maintainig the status quo that POW have with banksy?
you may or may not get lucky and may or may not have to line a bagger's pocket, but surely it is a risk worth taking if it includes the vast majority of 'true' fans being included in being able to purchase at cost or even at all?

paying POW £2-3k or a bagger only eases your conciense, you still get a print. at those prices though a lot of us would fall at the first hurdle, lack of money, regardless of the where the first wave of cash ended up.

[corblimeylimey]

Well said lesbianwednesdays.

[discoduster]

artbrute said:

I'm very happy for you being able and willing to pay £3000 on a Banksy release, well done for being wealthy, and your I'm all right Jack attitude. Banksy understands not everyone is as fortunate as yourself and I'm glad for that as I'm obviously one of them.

And as for your flat screen snipe, I haven't got one, even though of course I could have one if I realised the profit from my Banksy prints, but as a true Banksy fan I'd rather they were on my wall.

Yeah I don't have a flat screen either, I don't even have a car. Art is the only luxury I spend money on when I can. No I don't just drop $6,000 on prints left and right. I'd probably only be able to ever afford one at that price. But if I can only get one, I'd rather money be going to a good cause or Banksy than some chumps flat screen. Sorry if you hate me for saying it. But you can take your all right Jack attitude and "true fan" BS yourself and bite it. If you can't afford it buy an unisgned print or a poster like the rest of the world does when it comes to this kind of frivolous luxury.

Is it just me or are you a hypocritical condescending cock??....No offence.

[tomhills1]

discoduster said:

Is it just me or are you a hypocritical condescending c**k??....No offence.

;D ;D ;D it's the 'no offence' bit, does me everytime ;D

[carlito]

"...No offence" classic ;D

thanks to all the above for taking this thread someonewhere interesting after my frankly useless attempts at getting my point across...

and making me feeling somewhat calmed that financially i'm not alone in stressing about how i'll find the dosh if prices rise higher

[tomhills1]

artbrute, are you like twelve or something? we're not having a go at you for suggesting your thousands of pounds/dollars would be better going to POW/banksy/charity we're saying that why pay thousands? that makes the whole process elitest and the preserve of the rich or at least wealthy, so why not keep it as it is and for-go the odd bagger for the greater good which is art that is affordable for the majority, not the minority - regardless of whom it benefits.

i do however feel i'm wasting my breath on you because you appear to be happy to play the victim and feel we're all out to get you, hence nothing i say is gonna make a difference.
funny how i disagree yet can see your point, yet you cannot see anything past the end of your nose, albeit intending to benefit a 'worthy' cause.

i give up mate.

[tomhills1]

it's nothing personal, i haven't insulted you (apart from calling you a twelve year-old) and even if people have, if you believe in yourself then you should rise above it not sink to whoever's level.

stop feeling it's you that's being picked on: it's your ideals, just 'cos you can afford a few grand doesn't mean we all can. can't you appreciate that, even if your money is whiter than white?

[carlito]

hmmm interesting my rep seems to have dropped...can't remember abusing anyone...oh well

[arcam]

carlito said:

hmmm interesting my rep seems to have dropped...can't remember abusing anyone...oh well

Have one back from me.

[carlito]

ta very much its Friday Edith Bowman just appeared on Friday Night Project so have one too

[arcam]

carlito said:

ta very much its Friday Edith Bowman just appeared on Friday Night Project so have one too

I'm a bit of a Jo Whiley fan myself.......Was nice to see her making an appearance. ;D

[pezlow]

Artbrute - there are plenty of affordable Jake and Dinos prints out there if you look hard enough. Try Whitecube.com which has a couple for under £400.

This banksy market is very fragile. POW and Banksy have no control over the secondary market. If they were to put prices of signed up to £2K they would still be sold at a profit on ebay for a while. But what happens if there is a downturn in the value of his work?

Should Souled out Studios raise their prices too? Should Shepard Fairey?

Why anyone who wants to buy banksy's work from POW would want a price increase is just beyond me. There would be a Bunfight if signed were £2K and a bunfight if they were £650.

[motor]

pezlow said:

Artbrute - there are plenty of affordable Jake and Dinos prints out there if you look hard enough. Try Whitecube.com which has a couple for under £400.

This banksy market is very fragile. POW and Banksy have no control over the secondary market. If they were to put prices of signed up to £2K they would still be sold at a profit on ebay for a while. But what happens if there is a downturn in the value of his work?

Should Souled out Studios raise their prices too? Should Shepard Fairey?

Why anyone who wants to buy banksy's work from POW would want a price increase is just beyond me. There would be a Bunfight if signed were £2K and a bunfight if they were £650.

+