[manchestermike]

linenbasket said:

My least favourite banksy...
Could never have it on my wall.

It has a strong message, but it is an very poor quality print, I know a fair few Banksys aren't great quality, but this one is particularly bad. Just aesthetically I wouldn't want it up although the message wouldn't stop me from doing so.

[gozgoz]

kiki said:

fourputt said:

Here's a question. If it were possible to get the girl in Banksy's "Napalm" to sign a copy of the print, how would it affect the value? Increase, decrease, destroy? I know that she lives in the same general area of Canada as I do. She moved here after the war and gives interviews regularly. So it would not be too hard to track her down, I assume. I have no intention of doing this. Looked at my copy today and thought it might make for some good debate on the forum.

Perhaps a little background and history is required here.

I have always been slightly uncomfortable with Phan Thị Kim Phúc's image in the 'Napalm' screenprint and the subsequent 'Can't Beat The Feeling' canvas commissioned by Hirst. Although the irony of the juxtaposition in those pieces is clear, the use of Kim Phúc is also flippant and, arguably, disrespectful.

Let's weigh it all up.

Kim Phúc suffered from severe and life-threatening burns following a napalm attack. Although permanently scarred, she survived from her injuries following close to 20 surgical operations. During the same attack, many of her fellow villagers and a couple of her family members were killed.

Years later, Kim Phúc escaped from the communist and then totalitarian regime of Vietnam. She defected, sought and was granted political asylum in Canada, a democratic and capitalist country which no doubt represented to her the freedom she never had in her own country.

Nick Ut's 1972 photograph of Kim Phúc running naked down a road screaming and burning is one of the most recognised photos of the Vietnam War. For many people, it symbolises the horrors of that war. For Kim Phúc, it is a very personal reminder of the physical and psychological trauma she and her family experienced first hand, during the Vietnam War itself and probably during its aftermath once the country was reunified under communist rule and hundreds of thousands of South Vietnamese were sent to 'reeducation camps' (one of the most brilliant euphemisms ever coined).

The context of Ut's photograph is then turned on its head when Banksy cuts out Kim Phúc's image and slaps it down next to Ronald and Mickey as an ironic comment on capitalism, consumerism and globalisation.

fourputt - If you were in Kim Phúc's position, would you, given her background, be happy to sign a 'Napalm' print that was shoved under your nose?

This situation is not the same as, say, asking Kate Moss to sign a Banksy 'Kate' screenprint. It is more akin to asking the lone protester who stood up to the tanks near Tiananmen Square in 1989 to sign a copy of 'Golf Sale'. Oh. That's right. He can't. He was probably tortured and then executed.

whew. word to yo momma!

[ejvaze]

Thanks Kiki for the info

I agree with BONGO

[fourputt]

WOW, I knew there would be some backlash to my post, but it was a completely rhetorical question. As I said in the original post. I would never do it. For those who negged me, bravo, you certainly have taught me a lesson! I thought forums were for the open trade of thoughts and discussion. I guess I should just stick to asking questions about which framer to use or post pics of my horribly framed prints.

[sm]

one of my favouirte banksy prints, would love to have one. I have to agree with the majority of posts, It would be very disrespectful to get this signed. Phan Thi Kim Phuc is not a celebrity but a victim of war, she should be teated with respect. Having her autograph anything for profit is sickening.

[Run Pig Run]

fourputt said:

WOW, I knew there would be some backlash to my post, but it was a completely rhetorical question. As I said in the original post. I would never do it. For those who negged me, bravo, you certainly have taught me a lesson! I thought forums were for the open trade of thoughts and discussion. I guess I should just stick to asking questions about which framer to use or post pics of my horribly framed prints.

there are hundreds of sick subjects we choose not to discuss. this is because on the whole we are not all weird sickos and these thoughts don't enter our heads.
post what you like, but don't expect people to agree with you

[curiousgeorge]

I must be alone in thinking that her image should never be in a print, no matter what the message being conveyed is???

[BONGO]

curiousgeorge said:

I must be alone in thinking that her image should never be in a print, no matter what the message being conveyed is???

BONGO THINK EVERYTHING SHOULD BE AVAILABLE IN ART

BONGO WARY OF ANY PROHIBITION TO CREATIVITY. IT IS A DANGEROUS PRECEDENT TO SET.

BONGO ALSO BELIEVES THAT THIS DEGREE OF FREEDOM CARRIES A GREAT BURDEN OF RESPONSIBILITY

BONGO THINK THAT THIS IS NOT UNLIKE FREE SPEECH - WHERE THE AVAILABILITY TO EXPRESS A VIEWPOINT FREELY IS NOT A LICENCE TO SPREAD HATE - JUDGEMENT IS IMPORTANT

BONGO BELIEVE THAT THIS PARTICULAR IMAGE IS RECOGNISABLE TO A MINDSET, A PLACE AND A TIME - THE IMAGE IS NOT IMPORTANT IN ITSELF , BUT THE BAGGAGE THAT IT CARRIES IS KEY TO ITS IMPACT

[pezlow]

I'm thinking of dipping my Love rat in pure rat's blood. Do you reckon it would increase it's value?

[tintin]

Reminds me about the controversy behind the original photo behind this artwork, but I think Dolks representation is brilliant.





If this now dead guy as any remaining family would you think of asking his children to sign the photograph?

[kiki]

tintin said:

Reminds me about the controversy behind the original photo behind this artwork, but I think Dolks representation is brilliant.





If this now dead guy as any remaining family would you think of asking his children to sign the photograph?

Which dead guy do you mean? General Nguyễn Ngọc Loan or Nguyễn Vãn Lém (whose execution, in my view and under the circumstances, was completely justified)?

[tintin]

In this case it's more tasteless to ask the children of the guy being shot, as this actually captures the moment.

I am fully aware of the ins and outs of this picture (that the photographer regrets taking it and that it directly caused the death of the guy doing the shooting)

[bigstrunso]

What's the story behind this image? Why was he executed?

[tintin]

The prisoner of war was captured after shooting dead some Americans, and was instantly executed. This of course is not 'playing by the rules' so the photograph played a part in sentencing the shooter to death.

[bigstrunso]

tintin said:

The prisoner of war was captured after shooting dead some Americans, and was instantly executed. This of course is not 'playing by the rules' so the photograph played a part in sentencing the shooter to death.

So, the guy with the gun pointed at his head had shot and killed a few Americans?

[tintin]

Eddie Adams was the photographer..

"The general killed the Viet Cong; I killed the general with my camera. Still photographs are the most powerful weapon in the world. People believe them; but photographs do lie, even without manipulation. They are only half-truths.
What the photograph didn't say was, 'What would you do if you were the general at that time and place on that hot day, and you caught the so-called bad guy after he blew away one, two or three American people?"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Adams_(photographer)

He was also responsible for this shot



digitaljournalist.org/issue0410/adams01.html

digitaljournalist.org/issue0410/adams_thumbs.html

[kiki]

Wikipedia has a fair account of the background:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Ngoc_Loan

I should add that the execution of the Viet Cong prisoner was not related to the death of any Americans.

[tintin]

kiki said:

Wikipedia has a fair account of the background:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Ngoc_Loan

I should add that the execution of the Viet Cong prisoner was not related to the death of any Americans.

ahhhhh, I was wrong about him, I had the impression he was killed.

I bow to your superior knowledge.

I got completely another understanding from what the photographer said about that photo.

[tintin]

bigman said:

and thanks kiki +1 when "i have the power"

You'll have to take the point away from me Bigman ;D for getting my facts mixed up

[tintin]

bigman said:

you spent your time trying to help tintin, im sure thats what the respect system is meant to be for.If someone goes out of there way to type info when its asked of them a +1 is deserved i think.

Cheers.

Well, at least my Reply #32 was correct in every way.

[BONGO]

BONGO HUMBLY SUGGEST THAT FORUM MEMBERS LOOK INTO TIM PAGES PORTFOLIO OF VIETNAM PHOTOGRAPHS IF THEY HAVE THE CHANCE

[funster]

Hi all, just wondering about the colours on a Napalm. Are they all the same or are some different? Thanks ;D

[bristolboy]

I think they were either yellow or grey.

[craigf]

I assume you aren't including the AP's?

[funster]

craigf said:

I assume you aren't including the AP's?

Nope. I've seen them on other threads and they look great. I was mainly wondering if it was two editions each of 500, or different colours (grey/yellow) within the same edition.

[Rabbitlegs]

check these sublime colours ;D no its not mine.

[ABC]

There are quite a few colour variations but those are on the A/Ps

[cosmic]

27 color ways of the AP´s and the actual run were two slightly differing back round colors

[The Voice of Authority]

* Print name - Napalm

* Release date - 02/12/2004

* Dimensions - 700mm x 500mm

* Edition size - 650 + 27 A/P's (See additional details below)

* Signed edition - 1 / 150
(Signature - Located on right hand side of print)
(Numbering - Located on left hand side of print)

* Unsigned edition - 1 / 500
(Numbering - Located on left & right hand side of print)

* Banksy tagged - Without

* P.O.W. Embossed stamp - Both with & without

&

* Additional details (if any) - (Artist ProoFor Sale - The first seven were signed, marked A/P but not numbered.
The remaining 20 were signed, marked A/P and numbered in an edition of 27)


Please advise of any variations to above details

[Daniel Silk]

Not everyones cup of tea this one, but when you see it for real its a great print. Good detail in the picture and looks fab framed up Its the sort of print that really gets people talking about its meaning.