[sogr8ful]

Most assuredly an Obama fan here...would have loved to have voted for Ron Paul though - he is the only one I've seen with revolutionary enough ideas to actually make a change. No wonder he didn't make it far

[Gentle Mental]

so depressing... it's just so depressing... the idea of more wars ("on the side of god") more pollution, more bombs, more terror, more market plunging, more unwanted babies, more poverty in Africa, more corruption, more power to the corporation.... just because the People thinks "hockey mom" and "lipstick-ed pitbull" are charming phrases from a lovely lady.

the days ahead are going to be very, very dark.

[manchestermike]

Sept 16, 2008 22:01:09 GMT 1 grafffan said:

Mike-

I am going against ya on this one...sounds like you are arguing just to argue. You NEVER EVER in the US leave nothing...the only time that is acceptable is when you find some crazy stuff in your food. 10% is the min on a terrible meal/service.

Never understood the cheap people who do not understand that it is one of the ONLY jobs that a person can support themselves without going to school. Some people are so self consumed...sad people.

That’s how it is here mate...get wit' it.

Absolute rubbish

If you have terrible service and a terrible meal you should not tip. To do so gives them the freedom to carry on that way.

I tip both here and in the US provided the meal and service is worth it. In no way would I ever tip if it wasn't. I remember a few years back going to one of the "best" restaurants in Florida. The meal was appalling in every way, including one person's main course had to go back 3 times... the service was just as bad with the staff rude and obnoxious. We came to the end of the meal and paid without tipping.

The manager and a waitress then had the gall to follow us out of the restaurant demanding their tip. They were told in no uncertain terms where to go.

You say "You NEVER EVER in the US leave nothing" - well how will they learn? You may as well just pour your money down the drain if you tip regardless of how bad it is... Common sense...

Going back to the point, maybe these guys in the restaurant had a similar experience, if they did then good on them not tipping, people need to know if their food / service is shite. To judge a person by them not tipping is utterly preposterous.

[Rude Copper]

i can see lots of reasons why people dont want mccain, but none for why obama should win, apart from default.
Is american politics all about trashing your opponent rather than winning by policy?

[andyctree]

I'm sorry but this "we need a strong president" thing is ridiculous. Do you think Obama is going to hide under a pillow and cry? McCain has admitted that his strong points do not revolve around the economy. His tax cuts are absolutely ridiculous because they help the people that don't need help, aka the "rich-folk".

People want Obama to win because they feel he isn't that removed from the rest of American. He hasn't spent year after year in Washington being completely diluted of reality. People want to believe that things can change for the better and that is what Obama represents. McCain is the same old bullshit of war and a struggling economy. People are going to vote for Obama because of Health Care, and tax cuts for the middle class.

It is better to side with hope and change then to be complacent with pain and struggle.

Strong President......lol. isn't that what got us here in the first place, a little cowboys and indians.

[dmandpenfold]

Sept 17, 2008 9:34:30 GMT 1 manchestermike said:

Absolute rubbish

If you have terrible service and a terrible meal you should not tip. To do so gives them the freedom to carry on that way.

I tip both here and in the US provided the meal and service is worth it. In no way would I ever tip if it wasn't. I remember a few years back going to one of the "best" restaurants in Florida. The meal was appalling in every way, including one person's main course had to go back 3 times... the service was just as bad with the staff rude and obnoxious. We came to the end of the meal and paid without tipping.

The manager and a waitress then had the gall to follow us out of the restaurant demanding their tip. They were told in no uncertain terms where to go.

You say "You NEVER EVER in the US leave nothing" - well how will they learn? You may as well just pour your money down the drain if you tip regardless of how bad it is... Common sense...

Going back to the point, maybe these guys in the restaurant had a similar experience, if they did then good on them not tipping, people need to know if their food / service is shite. To judge a person by them not tipping is utterly preposterous.

Agreeing with MM here, if the services, the food and the restaurant is poor i'd be hardly inclined to pay for the meal let alone tip. And if the waiter / waitress had the balls to ask for one they would definitely be given the good news.

Here's a question for America and other societies that so badly pay their service staff that the only way they can afford to live is to get a tip (either by good service food or bully boy tactics)...why dont you demand that people are paid a fair and honest wage in the first place....then tips definitely become a marker for good service.

[Gentle Mental]

the mildly richer ones, professionals, the forty something white collars, are scared sh*tless of obama, they know they're going to be taxed like there's no tomorrow with this guy.

but they need an excuse to rid their guilt of not voting for change (or a black guy) - hence palin - she's "change" enough...

[Winter]

Goes to show how impressive McCain is when all people can talk about is Palin

[rosstierney]

is there no such thing as a black, mildly richer, professional, forty something white collar?

sort your head out gentlemental

[andyctree]

Sept 17, 2008 18:07:18 GMT 1 Gentle Mental said:

the mildly richer ones, professionals, the forty something white collars, are scared sh*tless of obama, they know they're going to be taxed like there's no tomorrow with this guy.

but they need an excuse to rid their guilt of not voting for change (or a black guy) - hence palin - she's "change" enough...

she has no differing opinions then the ones already in place. i wouldn't call that change. the only thing she has is absolutely no experience

[pastelgirl]

Wow, here comes the election and we really don't have a good candidate. If we elect McCain we get 4 more years of G.W. Bush, and if we elect Obama, we will see Affirmative Action on Steriods in America...Any person who comes to this country and was born in this country and reaps the reward for doing so better be ready to fight for the freedom that OUR FOREFATHERS Fought and died for, and moron who does not believe had better get a clue before it is too late, I hate war everyone hates war BUT it is a terrible fact of life and has always been so since the beginning of man.
i just saw their TV ads in pollclash and its getting warmer this time. well you can see the TV ads in pollclash.com

[hermit]

Obama or I'm moving to whatever country will take me

[Deleted]

Obama for the world's sake... please american.. give the world back that great country it once was..

[slowmo]

I'm going out on a limb an will go for Cynthia Mckinney of the green party, she would make a much nicer print

[otomi]

McCain is the biggest Bush supporter all the "rebel" stuff is just made up and only because he repeats it over and over it does not become true he voted in 95% like Bush. More of the same only older.

Sept 16, 2008 16:11:49 GMT 1 Rude Copper said:

did'nt mcain clash quite a few times with bush on economic policy?
& the question is more,'are americans confident enough in obama's ability to lead them out of recession?',

[otomi]

Sept 23, 2008 21:50:22 GMT 1 pastelgirl said:

Wow, here comes the election and we really don't have a good candidate. If we elect McCain we get 4 more years of G.W. Bush, and if we elect Obama, we will see Affirmative Action on Steriods in America...Any person who comes to this country and was born in this country and reaps the reward for doing so better be ready to fight for the freedom that OUR FOREFATHERS Fought and died for, and moron who does not believe had better get a clue before it is too late, I hate war everyone hates war BUT it is a terrible fact of life and has always been so since the beginning of man.
i just saw their TV ads in pollclash and its getting warmer this time. well you can see the TV ads in pollclash.com

First post. The McCain people have their trolls everywhere.

"if we elect Obama, we will see Affirmative Action on Steriods in America.." - WTF

"born in this country and reaps the reward" - little rewards to ask someone to go and get killed in an unjustified war

"everyone hates war BUT it is a terrible fact of life" If everyone hates it no one would go to war - to many people make too much money with it and the people that decide never go

"OUR FOREFATHERS" - like Germany in '33

shut up

[Gentle Mental]

Sept 17, 2008 19:19:42 GMT 1 @rosstierney said:

is there no such thing as a black, mildly richer, professional, forty something white collar?

sort your head out gentlemental

there are, but, sadly, not enough.

Too many white people, when enclosed in the privacy of their little voting booth, would find it hard to vote for a black person.

This very recent research shows what you know that i know that you know that we all know...

www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/1179168,CST-NWS-mitch23.article

[otomi]

Sept 24, 2008 12:46:51 GMT 1 Gentle Mental said:

Sept 17, 2008 19:19:42 GMT 1 @rosstierney said:

is there no such thing as a black, mildly richer, professional, forty something white collar?

sort your head out gentlemental

there are, but, sadly, not enough.

Too many white people, when enclosed in the privacy of their little voting booth, would find it hard to vote for a black person.

This very recent research shows what you know that i know that you know that we all know...

www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/1179168,CST-NWS-mitch23.article

The article states that 6% of people do so.
If you don't vote for someone because of his skin color you are a racist. (not you generally speaking)

"when enclosed in the privacy of their little voting booth, would find it hard to vote for a black person" Why? Don't imply your views on me.

"shows what you know that i know that you know that we all know" - Sorry - I don't know. This is used by the extreme right over and over again. They don't wanna talk about their racist views so they say say I just say what everyone thinks. That is wrong this study shows 6% are thinking like that.

[Gentle Mental]

my apologies for generalizing and offending. never meant to. was never the point i was trying to make.

think it's a can of worms that may be better discussed on other forums.

just terribly pessimistic about the world sometimes, is all.

[spraycanfan]

Early in the year, obama was riding so high in the polls he was a shoe in for president, just as long as he beat hillary (which he did with a far smaller campaign budget)

However, you always get swings in peoples mood, plus we are so controlled by the media these days and in the states the media is mostly pro republican. The media publishes polls and we believe them as gospel truth. Lets be honest, if 5 networks collaberated 2 days before polling to say that mccain had a 20 point lead in the polls and was guaranteed to be president, it would seriously change the outcome. Some obama supporters would not bother to vote thinking it a waste of time, and if at the same time the same networks had blanket coverage of talking heads saying mccain is amazing and obama a fool then this would have a huge effect on voting.

It is the same with the econemy. If the news reports that high street spending is at its lowest in 50 years we think 'shit, better save instead of spend just incase things go tits up for me'. But when the news reports the highest high street spending of all time we are more inclined to max out our credit cards and blow our savings. The media only adds to the panic or prosperity.

I would love to see Obama win, i really would. The fact is that to become president you need a hell of a lot of cash for your campaign, that is a simmple fact. Bush had a huge kitty in 2000 and 2004 thanks to huge firms giving huge donations. But they dont donate for the fun of it, they do it so their man can alter policy or award contracts in their favour. Even apparant acts of kindness by the bush administration such as the time he announced that the US of A would send billions of dollars of AIDS drugs to africa, are made because the drugs are made by a company which donated to his campaign. Obamas campaign funds mostly come from supporters pockets, so if he gets into power his policies can be made for the common good and not because he owes favours.

Obama is a diplomat, he wont wipe iran off the map for threatening israel like the republicans would, he would talk to them. As for the econemy, in 2000 the bush administration inherited a government which was in profit by billions and didnt owe a penny. Now they are hundreds of billions in debt and having to nationalise big companies which are going bankrupt. How will cutting taxes of rich indeviduals help?

The fact is the states were in excellent shape when clinton left power and now they are in a total effing shambles and that is TOTALLY the fault of the republicans. Bush is not capable of having a thought on how to stop the rotting econemy and neither is mccain or obama, they have advisors. But the republicans surround themselves with the same idiots, no matter who is in charge. That is why the only way a change can be made is if obama gets in power.

If the republicans win with that evil bitch as vice president we are heading towards oblivion. If they do win i hope brown joins the euro and cuts the strong ties we have with the states and just have a normal relationship, because if we get dragged along with their policies we will be in serious trouble

[dmandpenfold]

brown join the euro, he's already got the UK into enough shit, dont think we need any more of his economic strategies

[spraycanfan]

do you REALLY think going into the euro is a bad thing?
The only reason the government wont do it just now is that it will finally hit home to us how much we are shafted on everything. We will be able to see, without convertion exactly how much more expensive everything is in this country. Why a BMW that is 25,000 euro's in germany is 45,000 euro's here.

Why do you think the UK is so financially fucked right now? Could it possibly be because we rely on the US econemy far too much for our own booms and busts. That we got financially involved with their mortgage fiasco's? My point is that a united europe looking after its own would be so much stronger than USA.

If you are a sun reader who doesnt want the euro because the papers say so then dont reply, but if you have a genuine financial reason for us not to join then please lets hear it, because i think we are stupid not to join

[doublehelix]

David Letterman rips John McCain a new one for pulling out of show, watch the whole clip:

[bert]

Sept 16, 2008 19:26:12 GMT 1 melmoth said:

As McCain is also showing clear signs of physically and mentally declining too, there is better than a 1 in 3 chance that she will be President in the next four years.

Yeah, I agree with all of your post, the thought of Palin in charge is actually very scary indeed.

[Rude Copper]

spraycanfan,
it was reported that the candidates fund raising for august was 214m, & was equal in amounts to each, of that, business's donated 47m to mccain, & 68m to obama,
there was a breakdown of the list of donations from business's throughout the course of the campaign, & although i cant remember the amounts, it is fair to say obama has been very well supported from some unexpected sources of commerce.
personally, i think mccain has the experience, & obama has the enthusiasm for change, but neither are properly qualified to take on the position of one of the most powerful men in the world, i think people are deluding themselves that obama will cope, because they are sick & tired of the republicans,
As for the euro, did you know that france, italy, spain & germany all slipped into recession last month?, whereas britain was 0% growth.
sun reader?, you dont work for the guardian do you?

[dmandpenfold]

Sept 25, 2008 0:28:29 GMT 1 spraycanfan said:

.....If you are a sun reader who doesnt want the euro because the papers say so then dont reply, but if you have a genuine financial reason for us not to join then please lets hear it, because i think we are stupid not to join

Spot on Rudecopper....for fear of being labelled a 'sun reader' by mr spraycan ...allow me to retort.....

What's to stop you buying your BMW in Germany if you want one, that's what free borders are all about, fair enough you might have to put up with left hand drive, but you can order a right hand drive model if you wait.

Are the UK the only country involved with dodgy debt, i seem to remember a plethora of banks and institutions were hit including most of those in Europe. Of the European economies France, Spain, Germany, Italy and Ireland are already in recession and Britain is quite possibly about to follow suit..that will be the 3 biggest European economies over the brink. Contrary to your claim membership of the euro club wouldnt have changed a thing except we'd all have nice shiney new blue notes.

A united europe doesnt stand alone it's financial system is intimately linked with that of the rest of the world and as such is subject to the rise and falls experienced by the biggest economies in the world, inlcuding the US. If united europe in some dreamy utopia turned itself into a little 'financial island' perhaps we would be free of influences outside, but that's not realistic, by being an island we would also not reap the benefits of the good times, europe would stagnate and crumble without trade outside it's borders.

...the sun? very judgemental...i could say you must read the clap trap spouted in the Morning Star...but i wont.