Francis
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September 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Francis on Feb 26, 2009 8:36:24 GMT 1, Maybe Parla should adopt the Hirst auction model and put all his future works for sale in an auction, to prevent all this widespread flipping that is happening with his artwork. He should get more of the money, not flippers.
Maybe Parla should adopt the Hirst auction model and put all his future works for sale in an auction, to prevent all this widespread flipping that is happening with his artwork. He should get more of the money, not flippers.
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guest2
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December 2006
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by guest2 on Feb 26, 2009 9:15:21 GMT 1, Even though I do agree that the current estimate for the Parla is a s**t-take by Sotheby's, I also think 75K GBP is a joke as well for a piece by anyone in this current movement besides Banksy
I think Parla considers himself to be a contemporary artist with roots fro the streets and not a guerilla street artist and I gather he hates to be pigeon holed into the bansky category. Not sure we'll see him at elms lesters again. He was hanging out with Murakami and co in London earlier this month. Hmmmm - wonder if thats business or pleasure?
When the rest of the over hyped, over priced and irresponsibly 'placed' artists are busted it will be the Parlas of the world rising to the top and on their own merits. The man is an Artist - through and through an he is brilliant.
Even though I do agree that the current estimate for the Parla is a s**t-take by Sotheby's, I also think 75K GBP is a joke as well for a piece by anyone in this current movement besides Banksy I think Parla considers himself to be a contemporary artist with roots fro the streets and not a guerilla street artist and I gather he hates to be pigeon holed into the bansky category. Not sure we'll see him at elms lesters again. He was hanging out with Murakami and co in London earlier this month. Hmmmm - wonder if thats business or pleasure? When the rest of the over hyped, over priced and irresponsibly 'placed' artists are busted it will be the Parlas of the world rising to the top and on their own merits. The man is an Artist - through and through an he is brilliant.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by chav on Feb 26, 2009 9:47:12 GMT 1, both walk hand in hand cocteau - you assess artistic merit by how much it cost you. ;D I cannot help but think that the pricing of Parla by galleries like Elms and Cristina, Il Triglinero, over the last couple of years has been on the back of the phenomenon of urban art, in particular Banksy, as it is urban art collectors who give Parla the most recognition. I guess also Parla's collectability can be gauged by what is still available at both Elms and Cristina
This is very true, you have to hand it to them though, these gallerys managed to squeeze a lot of cash out of people whilst the going was good, Parla is extremely overrated and laughably overpriced - are people finally waking up to this fact?, I think so, watch this space........
both walk hand in hand cocteau - you assess artistic merit by how much it cost you. ;D I cannot help but think that the pricing of Parla by galleries like Elms and Cristina, Il Triglinero, over the last couple of years has been on the back of the phenomenon of urban art, in particular Banksy, as it is urban art collectors who give Parla the most recognition. I guess also Parla's collectability can be gauged by what is still available at both Elms and CristinaThis is very true, you have to hand it to them though, these gallerys managed to squeeze a lot of cash out of people whilst the going was good, Parla is extremely overrated and laughably overpriced - are people finally waking up to this fact?, I think so, watch this space........
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Simococo
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April 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Simococo on Feb 26, 2009 10:06:19 GMT 1, its one piece in one auction its bearing on the future success of Parla is zero
its one piece in one auction its bearing on the future success of Parla is zero
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spanksy
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December 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by spanksy on Feb 26, 2009 10:59:52 GMT 1, all this negative energy towards Parla makes me wonder why his prices are so high ? I have been trying to purchase a water colour recently or any parla original as a matter of fact, but cant justify spending 10k PLUS for a small piece by a relatively unknown artist (away from this forum), and when an ESTABLISHED PROFESSIONAL auction house places this sort of estimate its just amplifies how inflated these pice are. BUT WHY are the galleries selling Parla's art at these prices, are they letting their expectations and OPINIONS cloud the actual reality of the market?
I just think that the power of this forum is seemingly so strong that it can dictate 'smaller' artist prices without anything being bought/sold.
all this negative energy towards Parla makes me wonder why his prices are so high ? I have been trying to purchase a water colour recently or any parla original as a matter of fact, but cant justify spending 10k PLUS for a small piece by a relatively unknown artist (away from this forum), and when an ESTABLISHED PROFESSIONAL auction house places this sort of estimate its just amplifies how inflated these pice are. BUT WHY are the galleries selling Parla's art at these prices, are they letting their expectations and OPINIONS cloud the actual reality of the market?
I just think that the power of this forum is seemingly so strong that it can dictate 'smaller' artist prices without anything being bought/sold.
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hlarmy
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November 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by hlarmy on Feb 26, 2009 11:25:01 GMT 1, all this negative energy towards Parla makes me wonder why his prices are so high ? I have been trying to purchase a water colour recently or any parla original as a matter of fact, but cant justify spending 10k PLUS for a small piece by a relatively unknown artist (away from this forum), and when an ESTABLISHED PROFESSIONAL auction house places this sort of estimate its just amplifies how inflated these pice are. BUT WHY are the galleries selling Parla's art at these prices, are they letting their expectations and OPINIONS cloud the actual reality of the market? I just think that the power of this forum is seemingly so strong that it can dictate 'smaller' artist prices without anything being bought/sold.
There's a lot of talk about certain artists being unknown away from the forum and also the hype the forum can create around an artist; how do people know how popular an artist is 'away from the forum' or is it just an assumption people are making. Without knowing who Elms Lesters (eg) have sold to, is it not somewhat presumptuous to make such a comment??
Not having a go, just interested to here people's thoughts on this...
all this negative energy towards Parla makes me wonder why his prices are so high ? I have been trying to purchase a water colour recently or any parla original as a matter of fact, but cant justify spending 10k PLUS for a small piece by a relatively unknown artist (away from this forum), and when an ESTABLISHED PROFESSIONAL auction house places this sort of estimate its just amplifies how inflated these pice are. BUT WHY are the galleries selling Parla's art at these prices, are they letting their expectations and OPINIONS cloud the actual reality of the market? I just think that the power of this forum is seemingly so strong that it can dictate 'smaller' artist prices without anything being bought/sold. There's a lot of talk about certain artists being unknown away from the forum and also the hype the forum can create around an artist; how do people know how popular an artist is 'away from the forum' or is it just an assumption people are making. Without knowing who Elms Lesters (eg) have sold to, is it not somewhat presumptuous to make such a comment?? Not having a go, just interested to here people's thoughts on this...
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by wiz on Feb 26, 2009 11:27:32 GMT 1, Whos "Elms"?.
Whos "Elms"?.
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spanksy
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December 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by spanksy on Feb 26, 2009 11:34:49 GMT 1, all this negative energy towards Parla makes me wonder why his prices are so high ? I have been trying to purchase a water colour recently or any parla original as a matter of fact, but cant justify spending 10k PLUS for a small piece by a relatively unknown artist (away from this forum), and when an ESTABLISHED PROFESSIONAL auction house places this sort of estimate its just amplifies how inflated these pice are. BUT WHY are the galleries selling Parla's art at these prices, are they letting their expectations and OPINIONS cloud the actual reality of the market? I just think that the power of this forum is seemingly so strong that it can dictate 'smaller' artist prices without anything being bought/sold. There's a lot of talk about certain artists being unknown away from the forum and also the hype the forum can create around an artist; how do people know how popular an artist is 'away from the forum' or is it just an assumption people are making. Without knowing who Elms (eg) have sold to, is it not somewhat presumptuous to make such a comment?? Not having a go, just interested to here people's thoughts on this...
Of course i dont know who elms are selling, in fact i question whether they sell anything judging by their pricing
what im saying is i dont understand where this huge valuation has come from? Normally the buzz is created by staggering auction sales and/or high press of which parla has neither?
If there is a market for the 75k pieces and they are selling then ill concede this point. and it was meerly a point of topic and an observation not an argument . . .
my friends in the art-world (outside the banksy forum) have pretty much no interest/knowledge of Parla.
its not a knock against him as i like his work. but a question? Has anyone on the forum spend 50k Plus on an original?
all this negative energy towards Parla makes me wonder why his prices are so high ? I have been trying to purchase a water colour recently or any parla original as a matter of fact, but cant justify spending 10k PLUS for a small piece by a relatively unknown artist (away from this forum), and when an ESTABLISHED PROFESSIONAL auction house places this sort of estimate its just amplifies how inflated these pice are. BUT WHY are the galleries selling Parla's art at these prices, are they letting their expectations and OPINIONS cloud the actual reality of the market? I just think that the power of this forum is seemingly so strong that it can dictate 'smaller' artist prices without anything being bought/sold. There's a lot of talk about certain artists being unknown away from the forum and also the hype the forum can create around an artist; how do people know how popular an artist is 'away from the forum' or is it just an assumption people are making. Without knowing who Elms (eg) have sold to, is it not somewhat presumptuous to make such a comment?? Not having a go, just interested to here people's thoughts on this... Of course i dont know who elms are selling, in fact i question whether they sell anything judging by their pricing what im saying is i dont understand where this huge valuation has come from? Normally the buzz is created by staggering auction sales and/or high press of which parla has neither? If there is a market for the 75k pieces and they are selling then ill concede this point. and it was meerly a point of topic and an observation not an argument . . . my friends in the art-world (outside the banksy forum) have pretty much no interest/knowledge of Parla. its not a knock against him as i like his work. but a question? Has anyone on the forum spend 50k Plus on an original?
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mike hunt
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December 2006
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by mike hunt on Feb 26, 2009 12:51:14 GMT 1, Something that is beginning to click is that Elms are responsible for making Neate a relative auction failure with their aggressive primary pricing (its far higher than anyone at auction is willing to pay, so people question why they should pay that much primary), this could well cause him long term damage.
Bang on - short term gain won and it still annoys me, because I think Adam Neate is very very good.
Something that is beginning to click is that Elms are responsible for making Neate a relative auction failure with their aggressive primary pricing (its far higher than anyone at auction is willing to pay, so people question why they should pay that much primary), this could well cause him long term damage. Bang on - short term gain won and it still annoys me, because I think Adam Neate is very very good.
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jimbob68
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January 2009
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by jimbob68 on Feb 26, 2009 15:02:31 GMT 1, Who controls the price of artists at a a gallery? Do the artists lose all control and have prices imposed on them? I must admit that I am not very much on top of the mechanics of artist / gallery contracts. I know that the usual split of a sale is 50-50 and that some galleries pay a monthly keeper fee to stop a popuilar artist going elsewhere but that is about it. Perhaps Neate and Parla have no say in these issues. It would be interesting to find out
Who controls the price of artists at a a gallery? Do the artists lose all control and have prices imposed on them? I must admit that I am not very much on top of the mechanics of artist / gallery contracts. I know that the usual split of a sale is 50-50 and that some galleries pay a monthly keeper fee to stop a popuilar artist going elsewhere but that is about it. Perhaps Neate and Parla have no say in these issues. It would be interesting to find out
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funster
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October 2006
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by funster on Feb 26, 2009 15:12:25 GMT 1, Who controls the price of artists at a a gallery? Do the artists lose all control and have prices imposed on them? I must admit that I am not very much on top of the mechanics of artist / gallery contracts. I know that the usual split of a sale is 50-50 and that some galleries pay a monthly keeper fee to stop a popuilar artist going elsewhere but that is about it. Perhaps Neate and Parla have no say in these issues. It would be interesting to find out
I'm lead to believe that Jose is very keen on setting the pricing and knowing the buyers of the works. Not sure if the sames true for Adam.
Who controls the price of artists at a a gallery? Do the artists lose all control and have prices imposed on them? I must admit that I am not very much on top of the mechanics of artist / gallery contracts. I know that the usual split of a sale is 50-50 and that some galleries pay a monthly keeper fee to stop a popuilar artist going elsewhere but that is about it. Perhaps Neate and Parla have no say in these issues. It would be interesting to find out I'm lead to believe that Jose is very keen on setting the pricing and knowing the buyers of the works. Not sure if the sames true for Adam.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by graeme501 on Feb 26, 2009 16:07:46 GMT 1, there is a few galleries/artists that take an interest in where the works go and not just to the person with the most money, good way to do it too
there is a few galleries/artists that take an interest in where the works go and not just to the person with the most money, good way to do it too
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Heavyconsumer
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February 2008
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Heavyconsumer on Feb 26, 2009 16:13:35 GMT 1, if this sells within the estimate then surely all the galleries will have to drop their prices for parlas as I'm trying to get a watercolor and I'm being quoted upwards of 10k and these are less desirable and less values than the originals.
To be honest, I've seen plenty of his watercolours which I'd prefer to this piece (without actually seeing it in person of course). This could be the most "relevant" or "important" piece of his career, but it happens to be one that I'm not too keen on. I dont own any of Parla's work and as such try to take it on a piece by piece basis and this one doesn't get me excited in the way that much of his work does - I prefer the more layered pieces and feel that this lacks a bit of depth in comparison, although I do like the colours.
I'll leave those of you who are either more knowledgable or invested to some degree, to argue the pricing issues surrounding this piece and Parla's work in general. However, it's probably worth noting that the vast majority of Parla's fans (within this street art scene) cannot afford to go out and drop 5/6-figure sums on art in general and I can't help but wonder if this may be his true motivation for "hating to be pigeon holed into the bansky category," and as such, even as a fan of the work myself, I also believe this may well present a major obstacle not only for him, but for many artists looking to "defect" or progress from street to contemporary scenes. The buyers are different and in the case of the latter, it may take some doing for the likes of Parla + Co' to woo the trend-setters of the contemporary art world. I personally feel that his chances are better than most, as there seems to be an almost political element involved in picking up his work at source, which is def' not present for most artists in this scene. As such I have no difficulty in believing Frankie and Funster's comments above. (My personal and perhaps limited view, is that there are a lot less talented artists selling work for more money than Parla in the contemporary scene as it is)
What's been said above regarding Neate's pricing certainly seems very sensible - but if collectors won't bid to ANYWHERE NEAR retail pricing levels in auctions, how on earth do Elms manage to sell out at such levels consistantly? I'm left scratching my head everytime a nice Neate original comes up at auction, as they never seem to reach the lower estimate!
if this sells within the estimate then surely all the galleries will have to drop their prices for parlas as I'm trying to get a watercolor and I'm being quoted upwards of 10k and these are less desirable and less values than the originals. To be honest, I've seen plenty of his watercolours which I'd prefer to this piece (without actually seeing it in person of course). This could be the most "relevant" or "important" piece of his career, but it happens to be one that I'm not too keen on. I dont own any of Parla's work and as such try to take it on a piece by piece basis and this one doesn't get me excited in the way that much of his work does - I prefer the more layered pieces and feel that this lacks a bit of depth in comparison, although I do like the colours. I'll leave those of you who are either more knowledgable or invested to some degree, to argue the pricing issues surrounding this piece and Parla's work in general. However, it's probably worth noting that the vast majority of Parla's fans (within this street art scene) cannot afford to go out and drop 5/6-figure sums on art in general and I can't help but wonder if this may be his true motivation for "hating to be pigeon holed into the bansky category," and as such, even as a fan of the work myself, I also believe this may well present a major obstacle not only for him, but for many artists looking to "defect" or progress from street to contemporary scenes. The buyers are different and in the case of the latter, it may take some doing for the likes of Parla + Co' to woo the trend-setters of the contemporary art world. I personally feel that his chances are better than most, as there seems to be an almost political element involved in picking up his work at source, which is def' not present for most artists in this scene. As such I have no difficulty in believing Frankie and Funster's comments above. (My personal and perhaps limited view, is that there are a lot less talented artists selling work for more money than Parla in the contemporary scene as it is) What's been said above regarding Neate's pricing certainly seems very sensible - but if collectors won't bid to ANYWHERE NEAR retail pricing levels in auctions, how on earth do Elms manage to sell out at such levels consistantly? I'm left scratching my head everytime a nice Neate original comes up at auction, as they never seem to reach the lower estimate!
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aginghippie
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December 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by aginghippie on Feb 26, 2009 16:29:26 GMT 1, There's a lot of talk about certain artists being unknown away from the forum and also the hype the forum can create around an artist; how do people know how popular an artist is 'away from the forum' or is it just an assumption people are making. Without knowing who Elms Lesters (eg) have sold to, is it not somewhat presumptuous to make such a comment?? Not having a go, just interested to here people's thoughts on this... For some of us, like me, this is a sideline and because it's still cheap I can collect things I like. My main focus is elsewhere (mostly abstract expressionists for those who are curious) and that's where the bulk of my activity is.
Personally I like Parla but I feel he needs to develop more. At this point If he progresses then I would definitely be interested but at the moment and at those Elms prices there are definitely better places to spend my money. To put this in context I bought a Franz Kline work on canvas last year for 70K GBP and although it was definitely a bargain it shows what is out there and what he is competing against.
There's a lot of talk about certain artists being unknown away from the forum and also the hype the forum can create around an artist; how do people know how popular an artist is 'away from the forum' or is it just an assumption people are making. Without knowing who Elms Lesters (eg) have sold to, is it not somewhat presumptuous to make such a comment?? Not having a go, just interested to here people's thoughts on this... For some of us, like me, this is a sideline and because it's still cheap I can collect things I like. My main focus is elsewhere (mostly abstract expressionists for those who are curious) and that's where the bulk of my activity is. Personally I like Parla but I feel he needs to develop more. At this point If he progresses then I would definitely be interested but at the moment and at those Elms prices there are definitely better places to spend my money. To put this in context I bought a Franz Kline work on canvas last year for 70K GBP and although it was definitely a bargain it shows what is out there and what he is competing against.
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Francis
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September 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Francis on Feb 26, 2009 18:31:56 GMT 1, its one piece in one auction its bearing on the future success of Parla is zero
You're very naive and perhaps incontinent if you believe that.
its one piece in one auction its bearing on the future success of Parla is zero You're very naive and perhaps incontinent if you believe that.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by snausages on Feb 26, 2009 18:38:53 GMT 1, Actually I think simococo is kind of right. We're all putting too much weight on this one thing. His future success is more dependent upon things like critical reviews, perhaps a museum show maybe being picked up by a serious gallery. And maybe he doesn't even need that if Elms has found a Niche audience with deep pockets. But all that stuff is way more important than going for double or triple estimates in some auction that most people aren't even watching closely anyway. There's a couple artists in this scene with amazing auction records who I think will never ever reach those prices again, so even if this sets a record for Parla, that's not going to guarantee him future success at all.
Actually I think simococo is kind of right. We're all putting too much weight on this one thing. His future success is more dependent upon things like critical reviews, perhaps a museum show maybe being picked up by a serious gallery. And maybe he doesn't even need that if Elms has found a Niche audience with deep pockets. But all that stuff is way more important than going for double or triple estimates in some auction that most people aren't even watching closely anyway. There's a couple artists in this scene with amazing auction records who I think will never ever reach those prices again, so even if this sets a record for Parla, that's not going to guarantee him future success at all.
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Francis
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September 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Francis on Feb 26, 2009 18:54:02 GMT 1, It definitely has some bearing, as people will say "oh he was able to achieve this much at Sotheby's" or "oh he didn't do too well at Sotheby's" as a justification for their decision to invest or not invest. They are not gonnna say "oh cocteau is in love with his Parla, so you should buy one" or "Parla is a true artist, unlike those spray paint geezers, so you should dump this in your pool room"
It definitely has some bearing, as people will say "oh he was able to achieve this much at Sotheby's" or "oh he didn't do too well at Sotheby's" as a justification for their decision to invest or not invest. They are not gonnna say "oh cocteau is in love with his Parla, so you should buy one" or "Parla is a true artist, unlike those spray paint geezers, so you should dump this in your pool room"
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by snausages on Feb 26, 2009 19:05:58 GMT 1, It's definitely a factor but no art adviser is going to recommend clients drop 50-100k on someone based on an auction at Sotheby's unless there's critical acclaim and the promise of big things in the pipeline too.
It's definitely a factor but no art adviser is going to recommend clients drop 50-100k on someone based on an auction at Sotheby's unless there's critical acclaim and the promise of big things in the pipeline too.
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Cocteau 101
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January 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Cocteau 101 on Feb 26, 2009 19:14:03 GMT 1, snausages - Do any of these art advisers ever tell their clients to buy art that they actually admire and like or am I being naive.
Francis - thanks for undermining my position in developing Parla's market lol.
snausages - Do any of these art advisers ever tell their clients to buy art that they actually admire and like or am I being naive.
Francis - thanks for undermining my position in developing Parla's market lol.
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RBK
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September 2006
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by RBK on Feb 26, 2009 19:22:59 GMT 1, Something that is beginning to click is that Elms are responsible for making Neate a relative auction failure with their aggressive primary pricing (its far higher than anyone at auction is willing to pay, so people question why they should pay that much primary), this could well cause him long term damage. Could this auction start a backlash in primary pricing for Parla if history repeats and this meets its estimates only and not the ยฃ75K it must surely reach to justify his current primary pricing? Now looking forward to this auction more than ever.
Slowmo - I respectfully disagree with some of your points. I think what's hurt Neate a bit is that so many of his works appeared at auction so early - but it doesn't surprise me so many did given speculative craze of the past 2 years. Elms should have done a better job vetting buyers that's for sure! However I don't think he can be deemed an auction failure whatsoever. Suicide Bomber obtained 78.5K GBP at Sotheby's. All subsequent Neate pieces entered into auction were in the bottom 25% of his production quality-wise (take that escalator piece for example) . If his bangers were coming up to auction and not selling I would agree more with you - but that's just not the case.
And not geared at you - another thing I think many fail to realize is that sell-out shows are not the norm in the contemporary art world. So there doesn't need to be some huge price reduction for works (given the horrendous economies it will play more of a factor I admit) but I don't think Neate originals are suddenly going to be 50% of the prices of his last show. They should probably keep them the same or slightly lower, or maybe have him create smaller-in-size works, and if God forbid works don't sell they can be used in subsequent shows or go to secondary galleries.
And lastly going back to Parla... comparing this work at Sothebys from 2002 to Parla's recent works at Elms & Italy is comparing apples to oranges.
Something that is beginning to click is that Elms are responsible for making Neate a relative auction failure with their aggressive primary pricing (its far higher than anyone at auction is willing to pay, so people question why they should pay that much primary), this could well cause him long term damage. Could this auction start a backlash in primary pricing for Parla if history repeats and this meets its estimates only and not the ยฃ75K it must surely reach to justify his current primary pricing? Now looking forward to this auction more than ever. Slowmo - I respectfully disagree with some of your points. I think what's hurt Neate a bit is that so many of his works appeared at auction so early - but it doesn't surprise me so many did given speculative craze of the past 2 years. Elms should have done a better job vetting buyers that's for sure! However I don't think he can be deemed an auction failure whatsoever. Suicide Bomber obtained 78.5K GBP at Sotheby's. All subsequent Neate pieces entered into auction were in the bottom 25% of his production quality-wise (take that escalator piece for example) . If his bangers were coming up to auction and not selling I would agree more with you - but that's just not the case. And not geared at you - another thing I think many fail to realize is that sell-out shows are not the norm in the contemporary art world. So there doesn't need to be some huge price reduction for works (given the horrendous economies it will play more of a factor I admit) but I don't think Neate originals are suddenly going to be 50% of the prices of his last show. They should probably keep them the same or slightly lower, or maybe have him create smaller-in-size works, and if God forbid works don't sell they can be used in subsequent shows or go to secondary galleries. And lastly going back to Parla... comparing this work at Sothebys from 2002 to Parla's recent works at Elms & Italy is comparing apples to oranges.
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Va Va Voom
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October 2006
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Va Va Voom on Feb 26, 2009 19:24:18 GMT 1, It definitely has some bearing, as people will say "oh he was able to achieve this much at Sotheby's" or "oh he didn't do too well at Sotheby's" as a justification for their decision to invest or not invest. They are not gonnna say "oh cocteau is in love with his Parla, so you should buy one" or "Parla is a true artist, unlike those spray paint geezers, so you should dump this in your pool room"
Pretty much sums up the problem ...Every piece of art i have purchased was for the love of the image,wanting to have the pleasure of seeing it everyday.Bad result at Bonhams/Drewatts/ Christies/Sothebys ..who gives a sh*t, the art remains undiminished in my eyes.I am purchasing a canvas from an american artist ( not parla ) that has taken 2 years to organise,dollar is shot to bits,art market is on the floor...do I cancel..NO ..because I have wanted a work by this artist for years.Buy what you can afford and buy what you love then you never lose.
It definitely has some bearing, as people will say "oh he was able to achieve this much at Sotheby's" or "oh he didn't do too well at Sotheby's" as a justification for their decision to invest or not invest. They are not gonnna say "oh cocteau is in love with his Parla, so you should buy one" or "Parla is a true artist, unlike those spray paint geezers, so you should dump this in your pool room" Pretty much sums up the problem ...Every piece of art i have purchased was for the love of the image,wanting to have the pleasure of seeing it everyday.Bad result at Bonhams/Drewatts/ Christies/Sothebys ..who gives a sh*t, the art remains undiminished in my eyes.I am purchasing a canvas from an american artist ( not parla ) that has taken 2 years to organise,dollar is shot to bits,art market is on the floor...do I cancel..NO ..because I have wanted a work by this artist for years.Buy what you can afford and buy what you love then you never lose.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by snausages on Feb 26, 2009 19:24:32 GMT 1, snausages - Do any of these art advisers ever tell their clients to buy art that they actually admire and like or am I being naive. You really think people devote their lives to this without actually loving the art? It's their living, it's their passion. The gallery I'm at and many others are getting by by the skin of their teeth in this economy and many are risking their own personal wealth because they love what they do and they want their artists to succeed.
You can admire any artist from afar, but if you're about to spend 50, 100, 200k on them you should know what you're doing and conduct some in depth research.
snausages - Do any of these art advisers ever tell their clients to buy art that they actually admire and like or am I being naive. You really think people devote their lives to this without actually loving the art? It's their living, it's their passion. The gallery I'm at and many others are getting by by the skin of their teeth in this economy and many are risking their own personal wealth because they love what they do and they want their artists to succeed. You can admire any artist from afar, but if you're about to spend 50, 100, 200k on them you should know what you're doing and conduct some in depth research.
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Francis
Junior Member
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September 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Francis on Feb 26, 2009 19:35:39 GMT 1, It definitely has some bearing, as people will say "oh he was able to achieve this much at Sotheby's" or "oh he didn't do too well at Sotheby's" as a justification for their decision to invest or not invest. They are not gonnna say "oh cocteau is in love with his Parla, so you should buy one" or "Parla is a true artist, unlike those spray paint geezers, so you should dump this in your pool room" Pretty much sums up the problem ...Every piece of art i have purchased was for the love of the image,wanting to have the pleasure of seeing it everyday.Bad result at Bonhams/Drewatts/ Christies/Sothebys ..who gives a sh*t, the art remains undiminished in my eyes.I am purchasing a canvas from an american artist ( not parla ) that has taken 2 years to organise,dollar is shot to bits,art market is on the floor...do I cancel..NO ..because I have wanted a work by this artist for years.Buy what you can afford and buy what you love then you never lose.
When you spend anything more than $5,000, it takes A LOT more than love. Not everyone is as rich as you, mate, so economic and investment decisions play a huge factor.
It definitely has some bearing, as people will say "oh he was able to achieve this much at Sotheby's" or "oh he didn't do too well at Sotheby's" as a justification for their decision to invest or not invest. They are not gonnna say "oh cocteau is in love with his Parla, so you should buy one" or "Parla is a true artist, unlike those spray paint geezers, so you should dump this in your pool room" Pretty much sums up the problem ...Every piece of art i have purchased was for the love of the image,wanting to have the pleasure of seeing it everyday.Bad result at Bonhams/Drewatts/ Christies/Sothebys ..who gives a sh*t, the art remains undiminished in my eyes.I am purchasing a canvas from an american artist ( not parla ) that has taken 2 years to organise,dollar is shot to bits,art market is on the floor...do I cancel..NO ..because I have wanted a work by this artist for years.Buy what you can afford and buy what you love then you never lose. When you spend anything more than $5,000, it takes A LOT more than love. Not everyone is as rich as you, mate, so economic and investment decisions play a huge factor.
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RBK
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September 2006
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by RBK on Feb 26, 2009 19:47:24 GMT 1, BUT WHY are the galleries selling Parla's art at these prices, are they letting their expectations and OPINIONS cloud the actual reality of the market?
A gallery's expectations & opinions don't force someone to open up their wallet and purchase a piece!
I honestly feel many threads on here should be mirrored: 1. One to discuss the actual art/artistic merit 2. The other to discuss it from an investment perspective
People who buy art should derive HUGE ENJOYMENT from having art in their lives/on their walls. Also I think there is a great quote in Collecting Contemporary that you're making a lifestyle decision. Being involved in the arts surrounds you with people that hopefully share a similar passion, introduce you to great people and artists, and hopefully you have fun along the ride.
If you look at art as you would a stock/mutual fund then: 1. I feel sorry for you 2. That speculative phase/boat has already longed sailed
BUT WHY are the galleries selling Parla's art at these prices, are they letting their expectations and OPINIONS cloud the actual reality of the market? A gallery's expectations & opinions don't force someone to open up their wallet and purchase a piece! I honestly feel many threads on here should be mirrored: 1. One to discuss the actual art/artistic merit 2. The other to discuss it from an investment perspective People who buy art should derive HUGE ENJOYMENT from having art in their lives/on their walls. Also I think there is a great quote in Collecting Contemporary that you're making a lifestyle decision. Being involved in the arts surrounds you with people that hopefully share a similar passion, introduce you to great people and artists, and hopefully you have fun along the ride. If you look at art as you would a stock/mutual fund then: 1. I feel sorry for you 2. That speculative phase/boat has already longed sailed
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Va Va Voom
New Member
Posts โข 631
Likes โข 135
October 2006
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Va Va Voom on Feb 26, 2009 20:12:18 GMT 1, Pretty much sums up the problem ...Every piece of art i have purchased was for the love of the image,wanting to have the pleasure of seeing it everyday.Bad result at Bonhams/Drewatts/ Christies/Sothebys ..who gives a sh*t, the art remains undiminished in my eyes.I am purchasing a canvas from an american artist ( not parla ) that has taken 2 years to organise,dollar is shot to bits,art market is on the floor...do I cancel..NO ..because I have wanted a work by this artist for years.Buy what you can afford and buy what you love then you never lose. When you spend anything more than $5,000, it takes A LOT more than love. Not everyone is as rich as you, mate, so economic and investment decisions play a huge factor.
Dont know where the "rich" tag comes from Francis ? , irrespective of pricepoint it is quite simple...Buy what you can afford and what you love.Obviously research the artist if they are unknown to you...but a recommendation from a top gallery and or using auction results to buy a work that is a "good investment"is no guarantee of future worth,the past is littered with "nearlys" and there are many more to come.
Pretty much sums up the problem ...Every piece of art i have purchased was for the love of the image,wanting to have the pleasure of seeing it everyday.Bad result at Bonhams/Drewatts/ Christies/Sothebys ..who gives a sh*t, the art remains undiminished in my eyes.I am purchasing a canvas from an american artist ( not parla ) that has taken 2 years to organise,dollar is shot to bits,art market is on the floor...do I cancel..NO ..because I have wanted a work by this artist for years.Buy what you can afford and buy what you love then you never lose. When you spend anything more than $5,000, it takes A LOT more than love. Not everyone is as rich as you, mate, so economic and investment decisions play a huge factor. Dont know where the "rich" tag comes from Francis ? , irrespective of pricepoint it is quite simple...Buy what you can afford and what you love.Obviously research the artist if they are unknown to you...but a recommendation from a top gallery and or using auction results to buy a work that is a "good investment"is no guarantee of future worth,the past is littered with "nearlys" and there are many more to come.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by slowmo on Feb 26, 2009 20:39:20 GMT 1, Hey RBK, nice points well made. Always two sides to any coin and a nice bit of debate going on on this thread.
Hey RBK, nice points well made. Always two sides to any coin and a nice bit of debate going on on this thread.
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Cocteau 101
Junior Member
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January 2007
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Cocteau 101 on Feb 27, 2009 1:48:27 GMT 1, snausages - Do any of these art advisers ever tell their clients to buy art that they actually admire and like or am I being naive. You really think people devote their lives to this without actually loving the art? It's their living, it's their passion. The gallery I'm at and many others are getting by by the skin of their teeth in this economy and many are risking their own personal wealth because they love what they do and they want their artists to succeed. You can admire any artist from afar, but if you're about to spend 50, 100, 200k on them you should know what you're doing and conduct some in depth research.
snausages, somethings getting lost in translation here. I'm not criticising gallery people just asking that although they may well love their artists do the people buying theart love it equally as much or do they see it more as an investment trip. I was being somewhat flippant. But lets not get too precious everyone is trying their best to survive in this economy no matter what they do, gallerists aren't martyrs and again no offence intended by the comment.
As for admiring an artist and doing the research that is the point I was making in earlier posts re Parla, I've spent the ยฃ50k and have done my research but to be honest at this point in his career the research is limited and my decisions are primarily based on my reaction to his art and my desire to live with his work for many years into the future.
snausages - Do any of these art advisers ever tell their clients to buy art that they actually admire and like or am I being naive. You really think people devote their lives to this without actually loving the art? It's their living, it's their passion. The gallery I'm at and many others are getting by by the skin of their teeth in this economy and many are risking their own personal wealth because they love what they do and they want their artists to succeed. You can admire any artist from afar, but if you're about to spend 50, 100, 200k on them you should know what you're doing and conduct some in depth research. snausages, somethings getting lost in translation here. I'm not criticising gallery people just asking that although they may well love their artists do the people buying theart love it equally as much or do they see it more as an investment trip. I was being somewhat flippant. But lets not get too precious everyone is trying their best to survive in this economy no matter what they do, gallerists aren't martyrs and again no offence intended by the comment. As for admiring an artist and doing the research that is the point I was making in earlier posts re Parla, I've spent the ยฃ50k and have done my research but to be honest at this point in his career the research is limited and my decisions are primarily based on my reaction to his art and my desire to live with his work for many years into the future.
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urbanangel
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August 2012
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by urbanangel on Feb 27, 2009 2:36:59 GMT 1, Without meaning to sound either patronising or condescending, Jose Parla has a much larger, global following than people realise.
I would actually argue that the people that speak about him on the street art forums only represent a fraction of his market, especially when it comes to buying the work itself.
There is certain things going on with Jose that most people simply aren't aware of. It isn't my place to say, but i can assure you that he is being collected by some of the most respected collectors world-wide.
But most importantly of all, he is collected by some of the worlds leading contemporary artists themselves. For an artist like Jose to be collected by his piers, is a serious mark of respect.
I totally understand why people would think that outside of the forums he isn't well known, but i can honestly say it's quite the opposite.
Jose's is one of only a few that has a truly global following.
As for the piece at Sotheby's, i think it will sell for between $50k and $75k USD, which by the time you add the 20%, plus the VAT on the 20%, could push it around the $100k mark.
For an older piece, that would be a pretty respectable price and most certainly in-line with current pricing. His work has moved on leaps and bounds, and if you check the thread started by Vavavoom, you'll see some photo's of some pretty amazing work.
Neate...well that's another story...i could go on, but feel i would get a battering
Without meaning to sound either patronising or condescending, Jose Parla has a much larger, global following than people realise. I would actually argue that the people that speak about him on the street art forums only represent a fraction of his market, especially when it comes to buying the work itself. There is certain things going on with Jose that most people simply aren't aware of. It isn't my place to say, but i can assure you that he is being collected by some of the most respected collectors world-wide. But most importantly of all, he is collected by some of the worlds leading contemporary artists themselves. For an artist like Jose to be collected by his piers, is a serious mark of respect. I totally understand why people would think that outside of the forums he isn't well known, but i can honestly say it's quite the opposite. Jose's is one of only a few that has a truly global following. As for the piece at Sotheby's, i think it will sell for between $50k and $75k USD, which by the time you add the 20%, plus the VAT on the 20%, could push it around the $100k mark. For an older piece, that would be a pretty respectable price and most certainly in-line with current pricing. His work has moved on leaps and bounds, and if you check the thread started by Vavavoom, you'll see some photo's of some pretty amazing work. Neate...well that's another story...i could go on, but feel i would get a battering
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edcase
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,151
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July 2008
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by edcase on Feb 27, 2009 2:37:11 GMT 1, It definitely has some bearing, as people will say "oh he was able to achieve this much at Sotheby's" or "oh he didn't do too well at Sotheby's" as a justification for their decision to invest or not invest. They are not gonnna say "oh cocteau is in love with his Parla, so you should buy one" or "Parla is a true artist, unlike those spray paint geezers, so you should dump this in your pool room" Pretty much sums up the problem ...Every piece of art i have purchased was for the love of the image,wanting to have the pleasure of seeing it everyday.Bad result at Bonhams/Drewatts/ Christies/Sothebys ..who gives a sh*t, the art remains undiminished in my eyes.I am purchasing a canvas from an american artist ( not parla ) that has taken 2 years to organise,dollar is shot to bits,art market is on the floor...do I cancel..NO ..because I have wanted a work by this artist for years.Buy what you can afford and buy what you love then you never lose.
Paul - talking sense as usual. Hope you're well.
It definitely has some bearing, as people will say "oh he was able to achieve this much at Sotheby's" or "oh he didn't do too well at Sotheby's" as a justification for their decision to invest or not invest. They are not gonnna say "oh cocteau is in love with his Parla, so you should buy one" or "Parla is a true artist, unlike those spray paint geezers, so you should dump this in your pool room" Pretty much sums up the problem ...Every piece of art i have purchased was for the love of the image,wanting to have the pleasure of seeing it everyday.Bad result at Bonhams/Drewatts/ Christies/Sothebys ..who gives a sh*t, the art remains undiminished in my eyes.I am purchasing a canvas from an american artist ( not parla ) that has taken 2 years to organise,dollar is shot to bits,art market is on the floor...do I cancel..NO ..because I have wanted a work by this artist for years.Buy what you can afford and buy what you love then you never lose. Paul - talking sense as usual. Hope you're well.
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