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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by manchestermike on Feb 24, 2009 17:18:48 GMT 1, Just checking
Just checking
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spanksy
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by spanksy on Feb 24, 2009 17:38:36 GMT 1, surely if it ACTUALLY SELLS at this price then its not ludicrous? If this is the current market price based upon the average price that a piece is sold for rather than the gallery asking price, then surley this price is ok?
Its High, yes, however if people are willing to pay this amount then that is all that matters, a piece is worth as much as someone will pay for it at the end of the day, excuse the cliche!
fucking shit load of cash for a few lashes of a paint brush tho
surely if it ACTUALLY SELLS at this price then its not ludicrous? If this is the current market price based upon the average price that a piece is sold for rather than the gallery asking price, then surley this price is ok? Its High, yes, however if people are willing to pay this amount then that is all that matters, a piece is worth as much as someone will pay for it at the end of the day, excuse the cliche! fucking shit load of cash for a few lashes of a paint brush tho
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skelly
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by skelly on Feb 24, 2009 18:14:15 GMT 1, Even though I do agree that the current estimate for the Parla is a shit-take by Sotheby's, I also think 75K GBP is a joke as well for a piece by anyone in this current movement besides Banksy
Even though I do agree that the current estimate for the Parla is a shit-take by Sotheby's, I also think 75K GBP is a joke as well for a piece by anyone in this current movement besides Banksy
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beasty
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by beasty on Feb 24, 2009 18:31:04 GMT 1, As much as I like Parla's work 75K is just too much. As pointed out by many on this thread he has no major gallery representation, no works in museum collections(as far as I know) and little auction history. For a fraction of that amount you can get an editioned series of work ( a small edition run at that) by someone like Robin Rhode who has recently had a solo show at the Hayward Gallery and is in the permanent collections of the Tate and MOMA. Parla may get the same recognition one day but until then it's difficult to see how these prices can hold up against more established artists.
As much as I like Parla's work 75K is just too much. As pointed out by many on this thread he has no major gallery representation, no works in museum collections(as far as I know) and little auction history. For a fraction of that amount you can get an editioned series of work ( a small edition run at that) by someone like Robin Rhode who has recently had a solo show at the Hayward Gallery and is in the permanent collections of the Tate and MOMA. Parla may get the same recognition one day but until then it's difficult to see how these prices can hold up against more established artists.
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skanky
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by skanky on Feb 24, 2009 19:08:31 GMT 1, This whole argument is bollocks and I bet if Jose ever read it he would be squirming, there are people who really believe in him and people who think his work is not worth it. Wow what a f**king revelation ! I have been informed of some serious collectors who own his work and imo he is more than a bit special and deserves all the respect and success he gets.
What people like Snausages fail to comprehend is that I and many more people like me think the contemporary art world is s**t, I wouldnt buy work from these so called "established " artists if you paid me . The whole point and relevance of this movement is art for the people, I dont want some beard stroking pretentious t**t telling me what to buy. I will judge the art I see and buy whatever I bloody like .
This whole argument is bollocks and I bet if Jose ever read it he would be squirming, there are people who really believe in him and people who think his work is not worth it. Wow what a f**king revelation ! I have been informed of some serious collectors who own his work and imo he is more than a bit special and deserves all the respect and success he gets.
What people like Snausages fail to comprehend is that I and many more people like me think the contemporary art world is s**t, I wouldnt buy work from these so called "established " artists if you paid me . The whole point and relevance of this movement is art for the people, I dont want some beard stroking pretentious t**t telling me what to buy. I will judge the art I see and buy whatever I bloody like .
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by They call me Stephen on Feb 24, 2009 19:10:30 GMT 1, art for the people at 75k??
art for the people at 75k??
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skanky
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by skanky on Feb 24, 2009 19:14:22 GMT 1, What no one is allowed to become successfull ? There are plenty of other artists which are affordable, I cant afford a Ferrari but that doesnt mean I cant appreciate it and dream of one day having one. Whats wrong with going to an exhibition and just enjoying it ?
What no one is allowed to become successfull ? There are plenty of other artists which are affordable, I cant afford a Ferrari but that doesnt mean I cant appreciate it and dream of one day having one. Whats wrong with going to an exhibition and just enjoying it ?
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by snausages on Feb 24, 2009 19:23:47 GMT 1, What people like Snausages fail to comprehend is that I and many more people like me think the contemporary art world is s**t, I wouldnt buy work from these so called "established " artists if you paid me . The whole point and relevance of this movement is art for the people, I dont want some beard stroking pretentious t**t telling me what to buy. I will judge the art I see and buy whatever I bloody like . You can buy whatever you like SKanks, but I spoke up because 1. Grajales is not a hugely respected or even widely known gallery in NY. 2. Buy what you want, enjoy what you want, I don't have an issue with that. It's just that the argument I hear is that "once the regular art world finds out about this guy he'll go through the roof." I'm telling you his prices are already through the roof even by "regular art world standards" and if you think "regular collectors" are going to propel him even higher I think you're nuts. Regular collectors are paying less than £75k a canvas for artists who just had solo museum shows at places like LACMA, MOMA and the Whitney. Why would they think Parla is worth more?
Doesn't mean the work is bad, just way overpriced and hyped imo. Anyway, go on and enjoy the show.
What people like Snausages fail to comprehend is that I and many more people like me think the contemporary art world is s**t, I wouldnt buy work from these so called "established " artists if you paid me . The whole point and relevance of this movement is art for the people, I dont want some beard stroking pretentious t**t telling me what to buy. I will judge the art I see and buy whatever I bloody like . You can buy whatever you like SKanks, but I spoke up because 1. Grajales is not a hugely respected or even widely known gallery in NY. 2. Buy what you want, enjoy what you want, I don't have an issue with that. It's just that the argument I hear is that "once the regular art world finds out about this guy he'll go through the roof." I'm telling you his prices are already through the roof even by "regular art world standards" and if you think "regular collectors" are going to propel him even higher I think you're nuts. Regular collectors are paying less than £75k a canvas for artists who just had solo museum shows at places like LACMA, MOMA and the Whitney. Why would they think Parla is worth more? Doesn't mean the work is bad, just way overpriced and hyped imo. Anyway, go on and enjoy the show.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by They call me Stephen on Feb 24, 2009 19:27:25 GMT 1, nothing at all and i agree with you in parts. i would however see aspects of the street art scene and particular artists (including parla) as contemporary artists and part of the art world you brand shit. i agree that the street art scene is about predominantly art for the people but that shouldn't be its limit. It is now much more than that and is part of the contemporary scene. street artists are being shown at the tate and sold in bonhams and sotheby for gods sake. how of the people and 'keeping it real' is that?
nothing at all and i agree with you in parts. i would however see aspects of the street art scene and particular artists (including parla) as contemporary artists and part of the art world you brand shit. i agree that the street art scene is about predominantly art for the people but that shouldn't be its limit. It is now much more than that and is part of the contemporary scene. street artists are being shown at the tate and sold in bonhams and sotheby for gods sake. how of the people and 'keeping it real' is that?
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skanky
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by skanky on Feb 24, 2009 19:48:16 GMT 1, No worries, I never mentioned keeping it real as I hate that phrase. Nothing wrong with natural progression and our artists are only now becoming accepted in the mainstream. Hopefully more of them will be accepted as soon as possible but to be honest I dont think they need to be as their fan base is already there.
No worries, I never mentioned keeping it real as I hate that phrase. Nothing wrong with natural progression and our artists are only now becoming accepted in the mainstream. Hopefully more of them will be accepted as soon as possible but to be honest I dont think they need to be as their fan base is already there.
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spanksy
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by spanksy on Feb 25, 2009 21:17:28 GMT 1, if this sells within the estimate then surely all the galleries will have to drop their prices for parlas as I'm trying to get a watercolor and I'm being quoted upwards of 10k and these are less desirable and less values than the originals.
if this sells within the estimate then surely all the galleries will have to drop their prices for parlas as I'm trying to get a watercolor and I'm being quoted upwards of 10k and these are less desirable and less values than the originals.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by snausages on Feb 25, 2009 21:36:41 GMT 1, It will go over estimates because I know people on this forum are just dying to buy a Parla and galleries are trying to charge 8-12k for small watercolors (Personally I think that's WAY too much but we all have opinions). To clarify, my argument was that if this went relatively undiscovered by his hardcore aficionados on this forum and at Elms that it would have a hard time breaking estimates.
But I'd still wager though that it sells well under retail. But what do I know? I don't know what clients Elms is tapping into who are willing to pay £50-200k for a Parla but more power to them if it's true.
It will go over estimates because I know people on this forum are just dying to buy a Parla and galleries are trying to charge 8-12k for small watercolors (Personally I think that's WAY too much but we all have opinions). To clarify, my argument was that if this went relatively undiscovered by his hardcore aficionados on this forum and at Elms that it would have a hard time breaking estimates.
But I'd still wager though that it sells well under retail. But what do I know? I don't know what clients Elms is tapping into who are willing to pay £50-200k for a Parla but more power to them if it's true.
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Winter
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Winter on Feb 25, 2009 21:46:40 GMT 1, I remember everyone on this forum talking the same way about Neate. When's he going to sort his website out?
I remember everyone on this forum talking the same way about Neate. When's he going to sort his website out?
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by snausages on Feb 25, 2009 21:56:03 GMT 1, I remember everyone on this forum talking the same way about Neate. When's he going to sort his website out? And what's different about Neate now?
I remember everyone on this forum talking the same way about Neate. When's he going to sort his website out? And what's different about Neate now?
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Francis
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Francis on Feb 25, 2009 22:17:11 GMT 1, Adam Neate would design great bowling pins. IMO
Adam Neate would design great bowling pins. IMO
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by mcnuts on Feb 25, 2009 22:57:01 GMT 1, good post slowmo. This will be a fun thread to read with hindsight
good post slowmo. This will be a fun thread to read with hindsight
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Cocteau 101
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Cocteau 101 on Feb 26, 2009 0:01:44 GMT 1, A point that also seems to have been missed, is believing in an artist at a relatively early stage in his career, I believe in Parla wholeheartedly and have put my money were my mouth is. Now of course I would prefer that my capital outlay did not diminish greatly if things ever turn out for the worse and I need to sell; but I have bought the art not as an investment (as a lot of contemporary art that smausages relate to seems to be sold) but because I have happended upon an artist who when I see his work I have a real connection with and moves me in a way that no other living artist has, that may sound far fetched but it is true. Isn't that the reason we should be buying and appreciating art.
A point that also seems to have been missed, is believing in an artist at a relatively early stage in his career, I believe in Parla wholeheartedly and have put my money were my mouth is. Now of course I would prefer that my capital outlay did not diminish greatly if things ever turn out for the worse and I need to sell; but I have bought the art not as an investment (as a lot of contemporary art that smausages relate to seems to be sold) but because I have happended upon an artist who when I see his work I have a real connection with and moves me in a way that no other living artist has, that may sound far fetched but it is true. Isn't that the reason we should be buying and appreciating art.
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Cocteau 101
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Cocteau 101 on Feb 26, 2009 0:10:25 GMT 1, spanksy - the watercolours are originals.
spanksy - the watercolours are originals.
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spanksy
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by spanksy on Feb 26, 2009 0:14:15 GMT 1, A point that also seems to have been missed, is believing in an artist at a relatively early stage in his career, I believe in Parla wholeheartedly and have put my money were my mouth is. Now of course I would prefer that my capital outlay did not diminish greatly if things ever turn out for the worse and I need to sell; but I have bought the art not as an investment (as a lot of contemporary art that smausages relate to seems to be sold) but because I have happended upon an artist who when I see his work I have a real connection with and moves me in a way that no other living artist has, that may sound far fetched but it is true. Isn't that the reason we should be buying and appreciating art.
In one word . . . YES!
A point that also seems to have been missed, is believing in an artist at a relatively early stage in his career, I believe in Parla wholeheartedly and have put my money were my mouth is. Now of course I would prefer that my capital outlay did not diminish greatly if things ever turn out for the worse and I need to sell; but I have bought the art not as an investment (as a lot of contemporary art that smausages relate to seems to be sold) but because I have happended upon an artist who when I see his work I have a real connection with and moves me in a way that no other living artist has, that may sound far fetched but it is true. Isn't that the reason we should be buying and appreciating art. In one word . . . YES!
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Francis
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Francis on Feb 26, 2009 0:27:19 GMT 1, A point that also seems to have been missed, is believing in an artist at a relatively early stage in his career, I believe in Parla wholeheartedly and have put my money were my mouth is. Now of course I would prefer that my capital outlay did not diminish greatly if things ever turn out for the worse and I need to sell; but I have bought the art not as an investment (as a lot of contemporary art that smausages relate to seems to be sold) but because I have happended upon an artist who when I see his work I have a real connection with and moves me in a way that no other living artist has, that may sound far fetched but it is true. Isn't that the reason we should be buying and appreciating art.
What does this have to do with prices?
A point that also seems to have been missed, is believing in an artist at a relatively early stage in his career, I believe in Parla wholeheartedly and have put my money were my mouth is. Now of course I would prefer that my capital outlay did not diminish greatly if things ever turn out for the worse and I need to sell; but I have bought the art not as an investment (as a lot of contemporary art that smausages relate to seems to be sold) but because I have happended upon an artist who when I see his work I have a real connection with and moves me in a way that no other living artist has, that may sound far fetched but it is true. Isn't that the reason we should be buying and appreciating art. What does this have to do with prices?
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Cocteau 101
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Cocteau 101 on Feb 26, 2009 1:04:23 GMT 1, More to do with motivation than prices.
More to do with motivation than prices.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Coach on Feb 26, 2009 1:09:54 GMT 1, A point that also seems to have been missed, is believing in an artist at a relatively early stage in his career, I believe in Parla wholeheartedly and have put my money were my mouth is. Now of course I would prefer that my capital outlay did not diminish greatly if things ever turn out for the worse and I need to sell; but I have bought the art not as an investment (as a lot of contemporary art that smausages relate to seems to be sold) but because I have happended upon an artist who when I see his work I have a real connection with and moves me in a way that no other living artist has, that may sound far fetched but it is true. Isn't that the reason we should be buying and appreciating art.
This accords with my sentiments. Exactly.
A point that also seems to have been missed, is believing in an artist at a relatively early stage in his career, I believe in Parla wholeheartedly and have put my money were my mouth is. Now of course I would prefer that my capital outlay did not diminish greatly if things ever turn out for the worse and I need to sell; but I have bought the art not as an investment (as a lot of contemporary art that smausages relate to seems to be sold) but because I have happended upon an artist who when I see his work I have a real connection with and moves me in a way that no other living artist has, that may sound far fetched but it is true. Isn't that the reason we should be buying and appreciating art. This accords with my sentiments. Exactly.
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by cookiemonster on Feb 26, 2009 1:13:13 GMT 1, interesting how in recent auctions the watercolours and prints - havent gotten close to the levels in price or return some had predicted - the sothebys auction is the first real test within a contemporary scene to measure the collectability factor of Parla. There will be a lot of twitchy bums when this lot comes up, that is for sure.
If you speak with serious art collectors, Parla is a speculative artist, rather than an established one.
interesting how in recent auctions the watercolours and prints - havent gotten close to the levels in price or return some had predicted - the sothebys auction is the first real test within a contemporary scene to measure the collectability factor of Parla. There will be a lot of twitchy bums when this lot comes up, that is for sure.
If you speak with serious art collectors, Parla is a speculative artist, rather than an established one.
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Cocteau 101
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by Cocteau 101 on Feb 26, 2009 1:16:19 GMT 1, Speculative in terms of monetary return, appreciated in terms of artistic merit.
Speculative in terms of monetary return, appreciated in terms of artistic merit.
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skelly
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by skelly on Feb 26, 2009 1:21:47 GMT 1, Looking at the auction results the past couple nights I would have to rescind my estimate of 30-40K after the results of those Banksys. How about that Gangsta Rat, a large great unique canvas of a classic image for less than 40k. I would still guess this busts estimates, but maybe around 18-25k
Looking at the auction results the past couple nights I would have to rescind my estimate of 30-40K after the results of those Banksys. How about that Gangsta Rat, a large great unique canvas of a classic image for less than 40k. I would still guess this busts estimates, but maybe around 18-25k
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by cookiemonster on Feb 26, 2009 1:36:11 GMT 1, both walk hand in hand cocteau - you assess artistic merit by how much it cost you. ;D I cannot help but think that the pricing of Parla by galleries like Elms and Cristina, Il Triglinero, over the last couple of years has been on the back of the phenomenon of urban art, in particular Banksy, as it is urban art collectors who give Parla the most recognition.
I guess also Parla's collectability can be gauged by what is still available at both Elms and Cristina
both walk hand in hand cocteau - you assess artistic merit by how much it cost you. ;D I cannot help but think that the pricing of Parla by galleries like Elms and Cristina, Il Triglinero, over the last couple of years has been on the back of the phenomenon of urban art, in particular Banksy, as it is urban art collectors who give Parla the most recognition.
I guess also Parla's collectability can be gauged by what is still available at both Elms and Cristina
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by snausages on Feb 26, 2009 2:23:47 GMT 1, >Irrational exuberance has been doused,<
But irrational exuberance still exists. Look at Kaws or the Hope poster mania. There's always something that people will chase no matter what they should have learned form the past. I'll give you all congratulations if it does go for 80k (and strong advice to consign you Parla's now!) But we've now all seen work here sell for hundreds of thousands that the next year won't go for half that so don't count your chickens no matter what happens.
My problem with Parla is that concept is king in the art world. Although he paints pretty pictures, they're borderline decorative, they are technically very proficient but they're not groundbreaking and I don't see Parla adding anything on a deeper or conceptual level to the world of art, at least not on the same level of other painters in the price range you think he's worth — the contemporary art world doesn't want pretty, they want smart, clever, witty, intellectual. There is a market for him but I just don't see him becoming a darling of the art world like so many hope.
LOL but it's already gone!
>Irrational exuberance has been doused,<
But irrational exuberance still exists. Look at Kaws or the Hope poster mania. There's always something that people will chase no matter what they should have learned form the past. I'll give you all congratulations if it does go for 80k (and strong advice to consign you Parla's now!) But we've now all seen work here sell for hundreds of thousands that the next year won't go for half that so don't count your chickens no matter what happens.
My problem with Parla is that concept is king in the art world. Although he paints pretty pictures, they're borderline decorative, they are technically very proficient but they're not groundbreaking and I don't see Parla adding anything on a deeper or conceptual level to the world of art, at least not on the same level of other painters in the price range you think he's worth — the contemporary art world doesn't want pretty, they want smart, clever, witty, intellectual. There is a market for him but I just don't see him becoming a darling of the art world like so many hope.
LOL but it's already gone!
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by mose on Feb 26, 2009 2:39:39 GMT 1, LOL but it's already gone!
Yeah, quickly after posting I decided it would be best to take the conversation elsewhere....
Though, I actually regret it now as your comments with regard to conceptual level and grounbreaking are very thought-provoking and remind me of many conversations I've had with friends about Cy Twombly's work, and comments here by another poster who stated(paraphrased), "Parla's work is evolutionary, not revolutionary"
Just as an aside, I do believe we will see an eventually evolution of Parla's work. Hints of it have been appearing in recent work. There's smoke, hopefully fire follows.....
LOL but it's already gone! Yeah, quickly after posting I decided it would be best to take the conversation elsewhere.... Though, I actually regret it now as your comments with regard to conceptual level and grounbreaking are very thought-provoking and remind me of many conversations I've had with friends about Cy Twombly's work, and comments here by another poster who stated(paraphrased), "Parla's work is evolutionary, not revolutionary" Just as an aside, I do believe we will see an eventually evolution of Parla's work. Hints of it have been appearing in recent work. There's smoke, hopefully fire follows.....
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JOSE PARLA ORIGINAL AT SOTHEBY'S, by manty on Feb 26, 2009 7:22:03 GMT 1, Good post.
I know this thing is about money for most people, but I do think the galleries have a responsibility to try to prevent people buying from them who just shove it auction shortly after purchase.
Its not good for anyone who likes or collects the artist
I know it doesnt really apply to this peice as its a few years old, but as slowmo says it can cause the artist long term damage and stop people investing in them as no one really likes to fritter away money regardless of how much they like the look of thier purchase
How many £75K canvases have sold, also, those willing to drop £12K on this auction, what about £18K? I think this could be priced right, could also be very very wrong going on this forum feedback. Something that is beginning to click is that Elms are responsible for making Neate a relative auction failure with their aggressive primary pricing (its far higher than anyone at auction is willing to pay, so people question why they should pay that much primary), this could well cause him long term damage. Could this auction start a backlash in primary pricing for Parla if history repeats and this meets its estimates only and not the £75K it must surely reach to justify his current primary pricing? Now looking forward to this auction more than ever.
Good post. I know this thing is about money for most people, but I do think the galleries have a responsibility to try to prevent people buying from them who just shove it auction shortly after purchase. Its not good for anyone who likes or collects the artist I know it doesnt really apply to this peice as its a few years old, but as slowmo says it can cause the artist long term damage and stop people investing in them as no one really likes to fritter away money regardless of how much they like the look of thier purchase How many £75K canvases have sold, also, those willing to drop £12K on this auction, what about £18K? I think this could be priced right, could also be very very wrong going on this forum feedback. Something that is beginning to click is that Elms are responsible for making Neate a relative auction failure with their aggressive primary pricing (its far higher than anyone at auction is willing to pay, so people question why they should pay that much primary), this could well cause him long term damage. Could this auction start a backlash in primary pricing for Parla if history repeats and this meets its estimates only and not the £75K it must surely reach to justify his current primary pricing? Now looking forward to this auction more than ever.
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