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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by jh153 on Apr 13, 2008 20:07:32 GMT 1, The release is so expense compared to the current market prices - Its Nick who's cashing in.
The release is so expense compared to the current market prices - Its Nick who's cashing in.
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idris
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by idris on Apr 13, 2008 20:10:38 GMT 1, The release is so expense compared to the current market prices. Its Nick who's cashing in.
in your opinion
The release is so expense compared to the current market prices. Its Nick who's cashing in. in your opinion |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by jh153 on Apr 13, 2008 20:15:06 GMT 1, well he is business man aswell as an artist..
well he is business man aswell as an artist..
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idris
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by idris on Apr 13, 2008 20:21:32 GMT 1, the way of the world
the way of the world
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by fatherxmas on Apr 13, 2008 20:24:54 GMT 1, I can see why nick is doing this and im sure d-face will be doing the same in october
Trying to run out as much millage in prints/originals so its pointless for flippers to buy the items and all pieces will hopefully go to true collectors/fans
I can see why nick is doing this and im sure d-face will be doing the same in october
Trying to run out as much millage in prints/originals so its pointless for flippers to buy the items and all pieces will hopefully go to true collectors/fans
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romanywg
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by romanywg on Apr 13, 2008 20:26:39 GMT 1, I can see why nick is doing this and im sure d-face will be doing the same in october Trying to run out as much millage in prints/originals so its pointless for flippers to buy the items and all pieces will hopefully go to true collectors/fans
Amen.
I can see why nick is doing this and im sure d-face will be doing the same in october Trying to run out as much millage in prints/originals so its pointless for flippers to buy the items and all pieces will hopefully go to true collectors/fans Amen. |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by insite on Apr 13, 2008 20:28:25 GMT 1, BRP doesn't care who gets the prints. If they wanted to garauntee they were going to fans of nicks all they would need to do was come on here, read some threads and pm "would you like to buy one?" 75 prints sold to worthy individuals, no flippers, no ebay. They want the hype and the high prices, it's good pr. They are running a business. Charging £1k to stop flippers! Is that sheep s**t? is it cow s**t? No it's BULLs**t!
Where do you get that from ?
This is what BRP said about the price "What i should mention is that the print at the show is going to be in the £650 - £1000 price range as it is a little special and difficult to make"
Difficult to make, a handpulled screenprint, fuck knows how many colours, artist, printers, gallery staff and gallery running costs to cover it's an expensive business that's all there is too it really.
BRP doesn't care who gets the prints. If they wanted to garauntee they were going to fans of nicks all they would need to do was come on here, read some threads and pm "would you like to buy one?" 75 prints sold to worthy individuals, no flippers, no ebay. They want the hype and the high prices, it's good pr. They are running a business. Charging £1k to stop flippers! Is that sheep s**t? is it cow s**t? No it's BULLs**t! Where do you get that from ? This is what BRP said about the price " What i should mention is that the print at the show is going to be in the £650 - £1000 price range as it is a little special and difficult to make" Difficult to make, a handpulled screenprint, fuck knows how many colours, artist, printers, gallery staff and gallery running costs to cover it's an expensive business that's all there is too it really. |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by graeme501 on Apr 13, 2008 20:30:42 GMT 1, disagree, by pricing high, he is becoming out of reach for some true fans
disagree, by pricing high, he is becoming out of reach for some true fans
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by fatherxmas on Apr 13, 2008 20:32:04 GMT 1, Thanks 
Thanks |
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idris
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by idris on Apr 13, 2008 20:32:35 GMT 1, BRP doesn't care who gets the prints. If they wanted to garauntee they were going to fans of nicks all they would need to do was come on here, read some threads and pm "would you like to buy one?" 75 prints sold to worthy individuals, no flippers, no ebay. They want the hype and the high prices, it's good pr. They are running a business. Charging £1k to stop flippers! Is that sheep s**t? is it cow s**t? No it's BULLs**t! Where do you get that from ? This is what BRP said about the price " What i should mention is that the print at the show is going to be in the £650 - £1000 price range as it is a little special and difficult to make" Difficult to make, a handpulled screenprint, f**k knows how many colours, artist, printers, gallery staff and gallery running costs to cover it's an expensive business that's all there is too it really.
Insite - i'm with you - nuff said -
BRP doesn't care who gets the prints. If they wanted to garauntee they were going to fans of nicks all they would need to do was come on here, read some threads and pm "would you like to buy one?" 75 prints sold to worthy individuals, no flippers, no ebay. They want the hype and the high prices, it's good pr. They are running a business. Charging £1k to stop flippers! Is that sheep s**t? is it cow s**t? No it's BULLs**t! Where do you get that from ? This is what BRP said about the price " What i should mention is that the print at the show is going to be in the £650 - £1000 price range as it is a little special and difficult to make" Difficult to make, a handpulled screenprint, f**k knows how many colours, artist, printers, gallery staff and gallery running costs to cover it's an expensive business that's all there is too it really. Insite - i'm with you - nuff said - |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by slowmo on Apr 13, 2008 20:36:52 GMT 1, Prices are seriously inflated, most of the increases are caused by people buying to sell for profit. The pattern is following the housing market model. One day an artist falls out of favour and suddenly people question whether spending in excess of a thousand pounds ion a print s sensible. It never fails to amaze me what people are willing to pay, I often question where the money comes from. Sometimes it is Hedge Funds, but remember that is just speculation. Remember never spend more than you are willing or can afford to loose. You won't later be completely stuffed. Tulips... wibble... bubble... bobble... housing... plibble... crasy... washy Prices are still miles less than the contemporary market as a whole... why should this new art market crash?
Actually mike at a grand a throw on a print for a very small level artist, its not miles less than far more established artists at all. You can pick up a Terry Frost, Peter Blake, Patrick Caulfield, Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin, Chris Ofili, Sandra Blow, Chapman brothers, Henri Matisse & Picasso (off the top of my head)!! The list goes on and on all under a grand (granted not always the best examples of work).
I believe these are prices people are willing to pay within a small circle. But the point is very valid, if you are buying for investment, rather than love, then you should listen to someone warning you not to spend more than you can afford to lose.
Prices are seriously inflated, most of the increases are caused by people buying to sell for profit. The pattern is following the housing market model. One day an artist falls out of favour and suddenly people question whether spending in excess of a thousand pounds ion a print s sensible. It never fails to amaze me what people are willing to pay, I often question where the money comes from. Sometimes it is Hedge Funds, but remember that is just speculation. Remember never spend more than you are willing or can afford to loose. You won't later be completely stuffed. Tulips... wibble... bubble... bobble... housing... plibble... crasy... washy Prices are still miles less than the contemporary market as a whole... why should this new art market crash? Actually mike at a grand a throw on a print for a very small level artist, its not miles less than far more established artists at all. You can pick up a Terry Frost, Peter Blake, Patrick Caulfield, Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin, Chris Ofili, Sandra Blow, Chapman brothers, Henri Matisse & Picasso (off the top of my head)!! The list goes on and on all under a grand (granted not always the best examples of work). I believe these are prices people are willing to pay within a small circle. But the point is very valid, if you are buying for investment, rather than love, then you should listen to someone warning you not to spend more than you can afford to lose. |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by manchestermike on Apr 13, 2008 20:38:57 GMT 1, Tulips... wibble... bubble... bobble... housing... plibble... crasy... washy Prices are still miles less than the contemporary market as a whole... why should this new art market crash? Actually mike at a grand a throw on a print for a very small level artist, its not miles less than far more established artists at all. You can pick up a Terry Frost, Peter Blake, Patrick Caulfield, Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin, Chris Ofili, Sandra Blow, Chapman brothers, Henri Matisse (off the top of my head)!! The list goes on and on all under a grand (granted not always the best examples of work). I believe these are prices people are willing to pay within a small circle. But the point is very valid, if you are buying for investment, rather than love, then you should listen to someone warning you not to spend more than you can afford to lose.
I wasn't just meaning prints... but your point is taken... I'm just sick of the negativity of bubbles, crashes, credit crunches...
Wish for something enough and it'll happen...
Tulips... wibble... bubble... bobble... housing... plibble... crasy... washy Prices are still miles less than the contemporary market as a whole... why should this new art market crash? Actually mike at a grand a throw on a print for a very small level artist, its not miles less than far more established artists at all. You can pick up a Terry Frost, Peter Blake, Patrick Caulfield, Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin, Chris Ofili, Sandra Blow, Chapman brothers, Henri Matisse (off the top of my head)!! The list goes on and on all under a grand (granted not always the best examples of work). I believe these are prices people are willing to pay within a small circle. But the point is very valid, if you are buying for investment, rather than love, then you should listen to someone warning you not to spend more than you can afford to lose. I wasn't just meaning prints... but your point is taken... I'm just sick of the negativity of bubbles, crashes, credit crunches... Wish for something enough and it'll happen... |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by slowmo on Apr 13, 2008 20:40:39 GMT 1, Mike, in all honesty, do you not think that there is a bit of a bubble currently on Nick walker?
Mike, in all honesty, do you not think that there is a bit of a bubble currently on Nick walker?
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by sahoria on Apr 13, 2008 20:40:42 GMT 1, dface will always try to keep prices down so that newcomers have a chance of owning his artwork...and to be fair nick is doing the same thing he is releasing two prints not one on thursday and i am sure they are going to be reasonable in price...
the one at the show they have said is special and hard to make... i really want to go for the artwork and see what new things he has done i am just hoping it doesnt turn ugly there....would be shame for nick and shame for his art fans also... BRP always do a fantastic job and everyone says how great there prints have been before so i say trust them on this one...s
dface will always try to keep prices down so that newcomers have a chance of owning his artwork...and to be fair nick is doing the same thing he is releasing two prints not one on thursday and i am sure they are going to be reasonable in price...
the one at the show they have said is special and hard to make... i really want to go for the artwork and see what new things he has done i am just hoping it doesnt turn ugly there....would be shame for nick and shame for his art fans also... BRP always do a fantastic job and everyone says how great there prints have been before so i say trust them on this one...s
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by insite on Apr 13, 2008 20:41:40 GMT 1, disagree, by pricing high, he is becoming out of reach for some true fans
I can see that graeme and I agree you're right I just found the comment I quoted well out of order and wanted to point out that there's a lot of people to sort out financially along the way. The more I think about the amount of work that's gone into some BRP prints, Green Lady and Haywain being the obvious examples the more I wonder why we haven't seen higher prices before.
I'm sure that a bit of the price will be down to Nicks stuff rising in value but I still think that's a small part of it next to the production costs.
disagree, by pricing high, he is becoming out of reach for some true fans I can see that graeme and I agree you're right I just found the comment I quoted well out of order and wanted to point out that there's a lot of people to sort out financially along the way. The more I think about the amount of work that's gone into some BRP prints, Green Lady and Haywain being the obvious examples the more I wonder why we haven't seen higher prices before. I'm sure that a bit of the price will be down to Nicks stuff rising in value but I still think that's a small part of it next to the production costs. |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by manchestermike on Apr 13, 2008 20:43:43 GMT 1, Mike, in all honesty, do you not think that there is a bit of a bubble currently on Nick walker?
Yes I do, but the comment was about the market in general, not Nick Walker. Someone, and I forget who (sorry), probably on this thread made a very valid point about the Moona canvas and someone probably thinking it was a Banksy...
All it takes is a major auction result like that and... well...
Mike, in all honesty, do you not think that there is a bit of a bubble currently on Nick walker? Yes I do, but the comment was about the market in general, not Nick Walker. Someone, and I forget who (sorry), probably on this thread made a very valid point about the Moona canvas and someone probably thinking it was a Banksy... All it takes is a major auction result like that and... well... |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by thinkbank on Apr 13, 2008 20:45:23 GMT 1, you could get a signed Peter Doig print from his current Tate Britain exhibition for 350. All sold out now of course!
not bad for the most expensive living Euro artist ever to have sold at auction - and his work is amazing.
That for me puts it into perspective. A major auction result clearly didnt put up his print prices! Too many ''urban'' (hate that word) galleries seem to be more interested in the markets and not the fans or the art. Nick has had one good result at auction and acclaim within some of the art world.
This NW print is well over priced, even if it drops at 600. But at the end of the day if people are willing to pay it then why not....its fashionable and it wont last forever.....
you could get a signed Peter Doig print from his current Tate Britain exhibition for 350. All sold out now of course!
not bad for the most expensive living Euro artist ever to have sold at auction - and his work is amazing.
That for me puts it into perspective. A major auction result clearly didnt put up his print prices! Too many ''urban'' (hate that word) galleries seem to be more interested in the markets and not the fans or the art. Nick has had one good result at auction and acclaim within some of the art world.
This NW print is well over priced, even if it drops at 600. But at the end of the day if people are willing to pay it then why not....its fashionable and it wont last forever.....
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by slowmo on Apr 13, 2008 20:46:38 GMT 1, Ok, I'm back up to speed with you. As a whole a few artists will go on from here and have not reached anywhere near their potential in terms of other successful contemporary artists, so I agree with you, that there is no burst on the horizon for the very good in this scene, however I do feel that most of them remain as yet undiscovered on this forum.
BTW Good luck to Nick I like his work and hope he goes on to great things, but feel it is very hot right now around him in terms of price.
Ok, I'm back up to speed with you. As a whole a few artists will go on from here and have not reached anywhere near their potential in terms of other successful contemporary artists, so I agree with you, that there is no burst on the horizon for the very good in this scene, however I do feel that most of them remain as yet undiscovered on this forum.
BTW Good luck to Nick I like his work and hope he goes on to great things, but feel it is very hot right now around him in terms of price.
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by dogant on Apr 13, 2008 21:19:40 GMT 1, I've come up with best way to solve all our problems into get a NW print, pay a homeless person 2o£ cash +few cans of stella to stand in the queue from Wenesday. He can keep all the change he can get on the day and all you have to do is show 1 hour before and get your spot.
MJ - what complete and utter cock comments.
Lets hope one day your life does not turn to sXXt and you are without a home and hope!
Even as a joke - this is really bad taste.
I've come up with best way to solve all our problems into get a NW print, pay a homeless person 2o£ cash +few cans of stella to stand in the queue from Wenesday. He can keep all the change he can get on the day and all you have to do is show 1 hour before and get your spot. MJ - what complete and utter cock comments. Lets hope one day your life does not turn to sXXt and you are without a home and hope! Even as a joke - this is really bad taste. |
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romanywg
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by romanywg on Apr 13, 2008 21:36:17 GMT 1, I've come up with best way to solve all our problems into get a NW print, pay a homeless person 2o£ cash +few cans of stella to stand in the queue from Wenesday. He can keep all the change he can get on the day and all you have to do is show 1 hour before and get your spot. MJ - what complete and utter cock comments. Lets hope one day your life does not turn to sXXt and you are without a home and hope! Even as a joke - this is really bad taste.
This has actually been done already for real. I remember an old thread (on Kidrobot) on a Kaws release in Japan and the first 10-20 in the queue were homeless people being used by flippers. I'll see if I can find the picture.
I've come up with best way to solve all our problems into get a NW print, pay a homeless person 2o£ cash +few cans of stella to stand in the queue from Wenesday. He can keep all the change he can get on the day and all you have to do is show 1 hour before and get your spot. MJ - what complete and utter cock comments. Lets hope one day your life does not turn to sXXt and you are without a home and hope! Even as a joke - this is really bad taste. This has actually been done already for real. I remember an old thread (on Kidrobot) on a Kaws release in Japan and the first 10-20 in the queue were homeless people being used by flippers. I'll see if I can find the picture. |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by dogant on Apr 13, 2008 21:42:48 GMT 1, MJ - what complete and utter cock comments. Lets hope one day your life does not turn to sXXt and you are without a home and hope! Even as a joke - this is really bad taste. This has actually been done already for real. I remember an old thread (on Kidrobot) on a Kaws release in Japan and the first 10-20 in the queue were homeless people being used by flippers. I'll see if I can find the picture.
romanywg - please don't.
This will only add further to a thread that is going down hill fast!
MJ - what complete and utter cock comments. Lets hope one day your life does not turn to sXXt and you are without a home and hope! Even as a joke - this is really bad taste. This has actually been done already for real. I remember an old thread (on Kidrobot) on a Kaws release in Japan and the first 10-20 in the queue were homeless people being used by flippers. I'll see if I can find the picture. romanywg - please don't. This will only add further to a thread that is going down hill fast! |
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romanywg
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by romanywg on Apr 13, 2008 21:50:52 GMT 1, I wont. It was unbelievable though. You wouldn't think people could stoop so low.
I wont. It was unbelievable though. You wouldn't think people could stoop so low.
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chablis
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by chablis on Apr 13, 2008 21:58:12 GMT 1, Actually mike at a grand a throw on a print for a very small level artist, its not miles less than far more established artists at all. You can pick up a Terry Frost, Peter Blake, Patrick Caulfield, Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin, Chris Ofili, Sandra Blow, Chapman brothers, Henri Matisse (off the top of my head)!! The list goes on and on all under a grand (granted not always the best examples of work). I believe these are prices people are willing to pay within a small circle. But the point is very valid, if you are buying for investment, rather than love, then you should listen to someone warning you not to spend more than you can afford to lose. I wasn't just meaning prints... but your point is taken... I'm just sick of the negativity of bubbles, crashes, credit crunches... Wish for something enough and it'll happen...
Mike my comments were really aimed at the top Ebay prices, I am not convinced the TMA series are worth £3k. You can't go far wrong at or near the original price. Someone like Banksy has developed that type of insterest over many years. I feel certain people have jumped on a band wagon tryiing to make a profit out of the interest in Nick. That might be unsustainable.
I have no wish to see anyone loose money, but I would like to see more a more stable pattern of growth.
By the way good luck to all forum members.
Actually mike at a grand a throw on a print for a very small level artist, its not miles less than far more established artists at all. You can pick up a Terry Frost, Peter Blake, Patrick Caulfield, Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin, Chris Ofili, Sandra Blow, Chapman brothers, Henri Matisse (off the top of my head)!! The list goes on and on all under a grand (granted not always the best examples of work). I believe these are prices people are willing to pay within a small circle. But the point is very valid, if you are buying for investment, rather than love, then you should listen to someone warning you not to spend more than you can afford to lose. I wasn't just meaning prints... but your point is taken... I'm just sick of the negativity of bubbles, crashes, credit crunches... Wish for something enough and it'll happen... Mike my comments were really aimed at the top Ebay prices, I am not convinced the TMA series are worth £3k. You can't go far wrong at or near the original price. Someone like Banksy has developed that type of insterest over many years. I feel certain people have jumped on a band wagon tryiing to make a profit out of the interest in Nick. That might be unsustainable. I have no wish to see anyone loose money, but I would like to see more a more stable pattern of growth. By the way good luck to all forum members. |
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mj
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by mj on Apr 13, 2008 22:07:41 GMT 1, come on guy's that was just a comment, like roman said it has happen before and that was just a joke dogant. I did stand for f...... long time in the queue for the last BRP show to get on hold of the dface print that my balls got frozen and I had to have hanging by the fire place so they could normal again
come on guy's that was just a comment, like roman said it has happen before and that was just a joke dogant. I did stand for f...... long time in the queue for the last BRP show to get on hold of the dface print that my balls got frozen and I had to have hanging by the fire place so they could normal again
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Harveyn
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by Harveyn on Apr 13, 2008 22:18:32 GMT 1, I think Nick's recent work very much deserves the accolades it is currently receiving with my particluar favourite being Ratatouille.
The one word of caution I would add is to remain grounded. I had a very disappointing result to what I believed to be a firm commitment which has left me a little cold to the subject matter.
The latest I have heard from the hired hand (no direct communication allowed with Nick or Jacqueline anymore..  ) is Nick will not be doing commission for anyone (typed to me in capitals).
Quality work will always prevail but there is a nice way to go about it.
I think Nick's recent work very much deserves the accolades it is currently receiving with my particluar favourite being Ratatouille. The one word of caution I would add is to remain grounded. I had a very disappointing result to what I believed to be a firm commitment which has left me a little cold to the subject matter. The latest I have heard from the hired hand (no direct communication allowed with Nick or Jacqueline anymore.. ) is Nick will not be doing commission for anyone (typed to me in capitals). Quality work will always prevail but there is a nice way to go about it. |
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by aginghippie on Apr 14, 2008 3:40:55 GMT 1, What is everyone moaning about? If this is a bubble then all you have to do is sit tight and wait for prices to drop. If you don't think it is a bubble then prices will continue to rise because no matter how cheaply Nick may sell his work the secondary market will set the price.
It's the way of the world, or the art market at least. You can follow any artist but if they keep improving sooner or later you won't be able to afford their work any more and will have to go elsewhere.
What is everyone moaning about? If this is a bubble then all you have to do is sit tight and wait for prices to drop. If you don't think it is a bubble then prices will continue to rise because no matter how cheaply Nick may sell his work the secondary market will set the price.
It's the way of the world, or the art market at least. You can follow any artist but if they keep improving sooner or later you won't be able to afford their work any more and will have to go elsewhere.
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mred
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by mred on Apr 14, 2008 6:39:28 GMT 1, What is everyone moaning about? If this is a bubble then all you have to do is sit tight and wait for prices to drop. If you don't think it is a bubble then prices will continue to rise because no matter how cheaply Nick may sell his work the secondary market will set the price. It's the way of the world, or the art market at least. You can follow any artist but if they keep improving sooner or later you won't be able to afford their work any more and will have to go elsewhere.
Aginghippie I for one second your views.
I don't have a crystal ball so do not know where prices of Nick's works are going, at present I am one of the people siting it out as his work both prints and canvas is now beyond my reach. The exception to that is prints direct from Gallery or Nick although with current interest I have not had any luck getting one on the last few releases and do not expect my luck to change this week as not near a computer all day.
What I do know, and this is from personal experience, is Nick is and remains a top guy who tries to see everyone right. I think now that there is so much interest in him and his work his commitments are much greater and like all of us sometimes we need a little help so we can do what is important in Nick's case producing incredible art and spending time with people important to him.
As I said yesterday bring on Friday when we can talk about the art which is the important thing.
What is everyone moaning about? If this is a bubble then all you have to do is sit tight and wait for prices to drop. If you don't think it is a bubble then prices will continue to rise because no matter how cheaply Nick may sell his work the secondary market will set the price. It's the way of the world, or the art market at least. You can follow any artist but if they keep improving sooner or later you won't be able to afford their work any more and will have to go elsewhere. Aginghippie I for one second your views. I don't have a crystal ball so do not know where prices of Nick's works are going, at present I am one of the people siting it out as his work both prints and canvas is now beyond my reach. The exception to that is prints direct from Gallery or Nick although with current interest I have not had any luck getting one on the last few releases and do not expect my luck to change this week as not near a computer all day. What I do know, and this is from personal experience, is Nick is and remains a top guy who tries to see everyone right. I think now that there is so much interest in him and his work his commitments are much greater and like all of us sometimes we need a little help so we can do what is important in Nick's case producing incredible art and spending time with people important to him. As I said yesterday bring on Friday when we can talk about the art which is the important thing. |
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loucastel
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by loucastel on Apr 14, 2008 8:21:10 GMT 1, I dont care which way his prices go wether it be up down or sideways, as long as all you guys going take plenty of pics of the show to post on here for us unfortunates who cant make it.
To everyone who is going have a great time.
I dont care which way his prices go wether it be up down or sideways, as long as all you guys going take plenty of pics of the show to post on here for us unfortunates who cant make it.
To everyone who is going have a great time.
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by richy00 on Apr 14, 2008 8:49:18 GMT 1, and 750 for the show print...
and 750 for the show print...
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Nick Walker V for Vandalism, by griffermans on Apr 14, 2008 9:08:11 GMT 1, Banksy's prints don't even cost 750. Nick needs to remember flippers drive the market forward to a certain degree. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer I think they say.
Banksy's prints don't even cost 750. Nick needs to remember flippers drive the market forward to a certain degree. Keep your friends close but your enemies closer I think they say.
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